|
ActusRhesus posted:So. Serious question. Is this the new normal? Shutting down existence for every new illness with a mortality rate of say over 5%? Honestly the number of illnesses we'll see with a >1% death rate that spread this fast and can spread without symptoms during our lifetimes will be maybe 2-3. So lets save some lives. Also, for the olds? Jail visiting booths with phones and plate glass. I'm only half kidding.
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 18:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 23:46 |
|
|
I wonder how the student loan interest waiver is going to work. My loans are federal but they’re administered by EdFinancial. So I’m not sure if the loans are still “held” by the feds.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 19:30
|
|
|
1.5 million dead is not a conservative estimate. This is still really bad. Get well soon and everyone else stay safe out there. I have inexplicably uncanceled court Monday, but after that it's time to isolate. Popero fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 19:32
|
|
|
I think there is a difference between saying "lol it's just the flu, so what if olds die" and "maybe there is a response that won't result in every service industry worker in the country defaulting on their mortgage."
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 19:47
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:I think there is a difference between saying "lol it's just the flu, so what if olds die" and "maybe there is a response that won't result in every service industry worker in the country defaulting on their mortgage." There may be such a difference, but your 5% comment certainly didn't hit that mark. And, perhaps, just perhaps, the answer is moratoriums on evictions while we figure out an aid package and not forcing service industry workers to continue to work, blithely indifferent to the effect that'll have on the virus's spread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 19:53
|
|
|
The answer *was* implementing a robust social safety net long before this happened. Now it's too late and things are just gonna crash. You have to install the seat belts before the accident, not after. If you don't, people die. Capitalism is negligent.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 19:57
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:The answer *was* implementing a robust social safety net long before this happened. Now it's too late and things are just gonna crash. In a situation like this one? Minimizing loss of life comes first. Disaster analysis, recriminations and preventative measures come second. Half-rear end the second part and you get to do the first part all over again pretty soon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:06
|
|
|
The best and only economic system is one that can never stop, no matter what, must constantly grow, and cannot sustain any type of extraordinary or systemic stress. If you think differently you hate freedom and capitalism
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:10
|
|
|
These people are honestly going to get everyone on earth killed so that the green arrows that mean they make money keep going up, and this is framed as not only just but natural and inevitable
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
I take it you are not familiar with the concept of gallows humor. Obviously there was some sarcasm in that comment. But you ignored the substantive parts of the comment which spoke to what the hell are we going to do with people who are already living a life of isolation? I just watched three family members in nursing homes die. Pretty sure they would have croaked a lot sooner if they didn't have "OK, it sucks here, but Saturday my son is coming to visit with the grandkid" to look forward to. There's obviously no easy answers to any of this, but making GBS threads on people and assuming they don't give a gently caress about human life because they are looking at other second and third order consequences and asking questions isn't really all that helpful. And saying "well they should just do x." is also not really all that helpful, unless you're in a position to *do* X. We're being told we can't telework, even thought the courts are pretty much shut down because people get pissy if state employees god forbid get a "free day off" during an emergency. I'm lucky. My mom is retired and can watch my kid. The secretaries, the monitors, the marshalls? A lot of them can't afford child care and are going to burn through their PTO... so what happens when they or their family are actually sick and there's no more time? We have a "leave bank" that a lot of us contribute to which will relieve some of that, but not nearly enough. No one is saying no one cares about people dying. Even if there's some gallows humor going around. Assuming people are like "whatever. millions of deaths. Who cares?" shows... I don't know... either a level of cluelessness, or a desire to vilify anyone who thinks differently than you to a point beyond reason. What people *are* saying is that there has to be a middle ground here, and a lot of people seem to want to just assume anyone saying "look... there has to be something we can do that balances the need to keep people safe without loving over a ton of other people." Example: One of the hospitals here has announced a new policy. Rather than "gently caress you. non COVID sick people... no family for you!" new policy is "one visitor at a time. All visitors check in at nurse's station, after checking in at front desk. One allowed back at a time. Visitors checked for fever and other signs of illness. Visitors use sanitizer within view of nurse. Visitors wear gloves and masks. Visitors gtfo after visit." Is it remotely possible that still might not work? Of course. Is it a hell of a lot more humane than making a bunch of people rot in a hospital alone? In my opinion, yes. And that is what I'm talking about. What can be done that is reasonably tailored? Saying "Well the government should be doing x, but Trump sucks," while true, isn't really all that helpful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:19
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:Just started playing Horizon: Zero Dawn and it's pretty OK so far it pretty much keeps getting better. when you get the opportunity to go to meridian, do so, because you can get access to the best weapons really early - they dont do more damage, just have more options on what to use. the one resource you'll find yourself low on is blaze, you can get those from a hunting challenge in the nora area - just shoot one of the grazers with a fire arrow in its canister, blow up the herd, then use harvest arrows to shoot the canisters off the dead grazers and you'll get tons of blaze also heavy melee attack homes so you can melee really well in the game by dodging then just heavy attack and you'll smack whatever you're fighting also save the DLC for last it is a HUGE jump in difficulty
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:23
|
|
|
as to the flu , rents, mortgages and whatnot - this should be a seismic change. A moratorium on evictions doesn't really matter - so what, you get evicted a month later? that already happens in cold weather cities, no evictions when it's below freezing. As long as you owe rent for the month where you can't make any money in your industry (or you have to take care of your kids since theyre home now ), there's nothing you can do about losing your place to live. Heck, same with a ton of businesses - restaurants all over are going to default on their loans and stop paying rent. The only actual solution is the fed give money to every single lender and float everyone + every company for a month but there's no way that's going to happen We're staring at a fall of the USSR style collapse right now and I don't see any way out of it
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:26
|
|
|
If we could test everyone with a cough quickly like South Korea, maybe would could avoid killing the service industry by getting back to things quicker.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
nm posted:If we could test everyone with a cough quickly like South Korea, maybe would could avoid killing the service industry by getting back to things quicker. I know part of the new bill is free tests for everyone, regardless of insurance status. Do you know how long before we have the tests needed to make that a reality? (Not being sarcastic. actual question) Seems like now that that's been settled that should be a primary focus. Our state has 2 kits. Definitely not enough.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:34
|
|
|
Is disco elysium worth it at full price if I'm not a fan of top down diablo-esque games?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:34
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:Is disco elysium worth it at full price if I'm not a fan of top down diablo-esque games? It's as much like a diablo game as it is online poker?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:39
|
|
|
Also yeah DE owns it's worth the price
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:39
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:Is disco elysium worth it at full price if I'm not a fan of top down diablo-esque games? It goes 20% off regularly so if you want to save, wait a couple of weeks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 20:49
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:Is disco elysium worth it at full price if I'm not a fan of top down diablo-esque games? no. theres also no combat, its not diablo esque.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 21:11
|
|
|
I’m so basic I bought modern warfare for the single player only and I enjoyed it
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
Look Sir Droids posted:It goes 20% off regularly so if you want to save, wait a couple of weeks. Literally just finished it 5 minutes ago, absolutely worth it. I can vouch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:I take it you are not familiar with the concept of gallows humor. Let me know if I'm misrepresenting your position here but: You are arguing against quarantine and anti-pandemic measures. Your central thesis is "there has to be a middle ground between mild quarantine and anti-pandemic measures and literally not giving a poo poo about human life". We can reach this middle ground by *handwaving noises* that for some unspecified reason will not lead to a breach of quarantine for a once-in-a-lifetime hyper-infectious pandemic. The reason we need this middle ground is because quarantine measures are inconvenient and some quarantine measures are really severe and also stupid, and the government is totally inept and handling this horribly and also we really really should have better social safety nets and also free health care for all. Yeah, don't be surprised if people don't really agree that just about any inconvenience and expense is worth it in the face of a pandemic. That this is going to disproportionately burden everyone with all the poo poo you said is really a case of you make the bed, you lie in it. No scratch that, everyone else has to lie in it too. There is really nothing that can be done about that other than learn and try to assemble a working democracy from whatever's left after. I am worried for me and mine and for my own country, but we are doing just about everything we can right about now and we have a strong tradition of solidarity (actual, practical solidarity not pot roasts from the church nazi next door), robust government control and regulation, strong social safety nets and universal health care. It's gonna suck for all of us, but we're in this together and we are going to make it through. My nation has been through much worse than this before. I am really worried about how this thing is going to hit the US, compared to the nightmare in northern Italy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 22:22
|
|
|
Nice piece of fish posted:In a situation like this one? Not disagreeing, but -- again, remember, American perspective. A lot of the basic first-response policies we need, in order to reduce loss of life as much as possible, are things we should have had all along, like reasonable sick leave policies or universal health care. We don't have them though, so it's a "the best time to implement universal health care is yesterday, the second best time is now" type situation. Nice piece of fish posted:Literally just finished it 5 minutes ago, absolutely worth it. I can vouch. Yeah, writing is arguably better than Planescape: Torment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 22:31
|
|
|
Just gonna chime in that Disco Elysium is 100% worth it. I meanwhile am 100% going to catch this loving poo poo because our courts haven't done anything yet besides aforementioned jurors able to delay their call.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2020 23:25
|
|
|
We don't have particularly strong precedent for a disease of this sort, in that it was pretty much un-containable as soon as it got out of hand in China. The incredibly innocuous symptom set and huge latency period are a nightmare to test for. The social distancing, testing, shutdown, and care capacity activities we're all seeing just start to come into play are about mitigating impact- and that's all we can really do. I should in particular note that some of the countries that supposedly are doing better, like China and SK with its vaunted drive-thru testing, are using testing methods that have structurally severe false negative rates. The CDC protocol (whatever the other massive problems with CDC/FDA actions here, thanks in no small part to cuts from this administration) are more accurate. The social distancing and shutdowns and quarantining are what makes the biggest difference. We're also seeing real scumbags in areas like education privatization, telemed and drug deregulation come out of the woodwork to try to stake a claim. That's going to be the biggest long-term harm, I think.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 00:29
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:I take it you are not familiar with the concept of gallows humor. Humor generally involves a joke beyond just saying dumb things. ActusRhesus posted:There's obviously no easy answers to any of this, but making GBS threads on people and assuming they don't give a gently caress about human life because they are looking at other second and third order consequences and asking questions isn't really all that helpful. I'm sorry that you find pointing out that you said something dumb unhelpful. ActusRhesus posted:The secretaries, the monitors, the marshalls? A lot of them can't afford child care and are going to burn through their PTO... so what happens when they or their family are actually sick and there's no more time? We have a "leave bank" that a lot of us contribute to which will relieve some of that, but not nearly enough. Like you said, there's no easy solution, but trying to force a quarantine and giving people paid leave is all we can do it we give a poo poo. ActusRhesus posted:No one is saying no one cares about people dying. Even if there's some gallows humor going around. Assuming people are like "whatever. millions of deaths. Who cares?" shows... I don't know... either a level of cluelessness, or a desire to vilify anyone who thinks differently than you to a point beyond reason. What people *are* saying is that there has to be a middle ground here, and a lot of people seem to want to just assume anyone saying "look... there has to be something we can do that balances the need to keep people safe without loving over a ton of other people." Example: One of the hospitals here has announced a new policy. Rather than "gently caress you. non COVID sick people... no family for you!" new policy is "one visitor at a time. All visitors check in at nurse's station, after checking in at front desk. One allowed back at a time. Visitors checked for fever and other signs of illness. Visitors use sanitizer within view of nurse. Visitors wear gloves and masks. Visitors gtfo after visit." Is it remotely possible that still might not work? Of course. Is it a hell of a lot more humane than making a bunch of people rot in a hospital alone? In my opinion, yes. And that is what I'm talking about. What can be done that is reasonably tailored? Saying "Well the government should be doing x, but Trump sucks," while true, isn't really all that helpful. All people are doing is pointing out that yes, shutting things down is both reasonable and necessary. It may not be sufficient to stop large scale loss of life, but it might be the best we can do. There's an irony in your posting in that you accuse others of taking a simplistic view while you don't think through the real consequences of inaction. The hospital policy you discuss is a good one purely because of the fever check and other precautions. How are you going to do that for sporting events? For Disney? For a movie theater? You can't. So, yes, this is going to be very disruptive. Honestly, it should be even more disruptive. And, in terms of your Trump strawman, who raised that? We will fall well short of any "reasonably tailored" response because we are in an unreasonable situation. I'm hoping you're just bored and trolling to pass the time. Bushido Brown fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Mar 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 00:48
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:We don't have particularly strong precedent for a disease of this sort, in that it was pretty much un-containable as soon as it got out of hand in China. The incredibly innocuous symptom set and huge latency period are a nightmare to test for. The social distancing, testing, shutdown, and care capacity activities we're all seeing just start to come into play are about mitigating impact- and that's all we can really do. falls apart when it's been documented in a country since january but ignored, and the bodies piling up in care homes should tell you all about the effectiveness of this approach wide-testing can catch pre-symptomatic cases and the rare asymptomatic person (~1% presumed currently), but it still needs major resources and public knowledge to minimise spread back to your irregular law chat
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 00:51
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:I know part of the new bill is free tests for everyone, regardless of insurance status. Do you know how long before we have the tests needed to make that a reality? (Not being sarcastic. actual question) Seems like now that that's been settled that should be a primary focus. Our state has 2 kits. Definitely not enough. no, because the people who should be able to tell us are or are being controlled by the incompetent fucknuts who covered up the infection rate for trump see what your local government is doing, because you don't want to be relying on the feds right now
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 00:52
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:false-negative rates? they are all the pcr method which is based on viral quantity in the upper respiratory tract when the virus lives in the lower. the cdc protocol has nothing to do with test accuracy but identifying higher probability externally infected people. this ignores the community transmission vector and is based off of perfect capture of external penetration of infection carried into a target country e.g. the CDC protocol calls for lung aspiration and a lot of places are just doing nasal/oral swabs. Also at least some of the time the Chinese protocol (which keeps changing radically, I've not kept track) has used CT scans as a first step exclusion test. both of these result in missing a much higher set of cases, usually people earlier in trajectory.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 00:58
|
|
|
Having poo poo bitched this badly for a disease that won't kill me doesn't really make me confident they will get it right when the stakes are higher.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 01:03
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:e.g. the CDC protocol calls for lung aspiration and a lot of places are just doing nasal/oral swabs. Also at least some of the time the Chinese protocol (which keeps changing radically, I've not kept track) has used CT scans as a first step exclusion test. both of these result in missing a much higher set of cases, usually people earlier in trajectory. the journals i've read place it at ›5 days after onset when fluid in severe symptoms presents a visible obstruction
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 01:04
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:e.g. the CDC protocol calls for lung aspiration and a lot of places are just doing nasal/oral swabs. Also at least some of the time the Chinese protocol (which keeps changing radically, I've not kept track) has used CT scans as a first step exclusion test. both of these result in missing a much higher set of cases, usually people earlier in trajectory. I just got a nasal swab.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 01:06
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:I should in particular note that some of the countries that supposedly are doing better, like China and SK with its vaunted drive-thru testing, are using testing methods that have structurally severe false negative rates. The CDC protocol (whatever the other massive problems with CDC/FDA actions here, thanks in no small part to cuts from this administration) are more accurate. The social distancing and shutdowns and quarantining are what makes the biggest difference.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 01:35
|
|
|
Thermal scans at every intersection to screen for fevers and errant farting
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 02:58
|
|
|
Honestly, I think no one here is that far apart. You're just approaching it from different angles. NavyMonkey is concerned that the quarantine is going to utterly gently caress up the lives of people without day-long childcare, a buffer of cash to weather being out of work for a while, the vulnerable elderly, etc. She is looking at the current system and asking, how can we do this, because it will gently caress up a lot of people. The rest of you hate capitalism, and believe that these things should not be a problem in the first place in any type of humane society not based 100% on profit motive. Some of you are likely selling hand sanitizer on eBay for $1,000 a bottle.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 03:16
|
|
|
Also, AR, I'm really sorry to hear about the family members you lost. That's awful and sucks. I wish we had a better system for caring for the elderly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
Supreme Court just cancelled all jury trials till April 30, so my weekend just got freed way up. Gonna do a poo poo load of appearances by phone and video now, which begs the question why we aren't already.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 03:28
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:Honestly, I think no one here is that far apart. You're just approaching it from different angles. I'm just suggesting that even if it's disruptive we need to suck it up and accept the consequences of trying to quarantine at home somewhat because the alternative is to embrace the likely collapse of the healthcare system and to accept that some insanely horrific number of people will die. A horrific number will die either way at this point, but we need to try. I'd cut her more slack if her allegedly deep concerns for the toll this will pose to people weren't put forward as "Gosh is this what we're doing? Really?" If you want to protect the vulnerable elderly, you probably shouldn't complain about the minimal poo poo we are doing as it stands. In an ideal world where we were doing everything we can, a lot of people would probably end up dying without being around their family due to quarantine. Worse, their family wouldn't be able to have a real funeral for them for months. That's sad and disturbing. But, it turns out everything is sad and disturbing when you're faced with a pretty lethal, pretty contagious virus with a long incubation period and without super distinct symptoms.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 03:33
|
|
|
Pook Good Mook posted:Supreme Court just cancelled all jury trials till April 30, so my weekend just got freed way up. Defense counsel still need to see their folks, then interact with DAs and judges.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 03:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 23:46 |
|
|
Talking about quarantine computing, how many of you have played Eliza by Zachtronics?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2020 03:56
|
|
