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Gripweed posted:But the only American superhero who has a specific transformation sequence is Superman. I think stuff like this absolutely counts, where 20 seconds is dedicated to Tony suiting up in the middle of an action scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89hCOgVa5LI The MCU films spend a lot of time showing Iron Man's transformation until you get to the later films where it's just lame magic nanite bullshit.
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Mar 15, 2020 12:44
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It's not really a transformation sequence but the Green Lantern (and other lantern) oath sort of fulfils the same purpose. The poem Jason Blood says when he transforms into Etrigan is also similar.
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Mar 15, 2020 12:47
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The Flash has his ring into suit thing but until recently there wasn't a definite version of that. Batman 66 had the batpoles sequence. The final episode of JLU had a couple of new suit up sequences added in.
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Mar 15, 2020 12:49
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I think stuff like this absolutely counts, where 20 seconds is dedicated to Tony suiting up in the middle of an action scene. I remember when the first movie came out that first big suit up scene with the gantries and everything being huge. As soon as people saw that in trailers Iron Man went from a not very well known character to an A-tier superhero
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Mar 15, 2020 12:55
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This is the best suit up of all time
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Mar 15, 2020 13:00
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Does Johnny Storm count?
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Mar 15, 2020 13:55
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I have a feeling transformation sequences aren't as common here in the West because A) a lot of heroes still use costumes that aren't really conducive to that kind of thing, and B) a lot of people unfortunately think that kind of thing is too childish and/or Toyetic in nature cause they still have a stick up their asses about how superheroes used to be perceived Honestly I figure we'll start seeing it more sometime in the next 10 to 20 years as the kids who grew up on Ben 10 start entering the entertainment industry(cause that franchise has more than it's fair share of Toku influences to it)
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Mar 15, 2020 14:04
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The MCU did less with transformation stuff as it went I think. Endgame in particular had a bunch of costume changes where the transformation itself was heavily downplayed. Thor's transformation before the final battle takes a second or two isn't shown in close-up at all (meaning we never get to see how his beard got braided). Compare this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONJ_hgkLORQ&t=188s to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t41Pi2684fI Or look at the transformation stuff in the Iron Man movies (especially 3) and the first Avengers vs the later stuff. It felt like once they got to Black Panther or so they just wanted to get the heroes into and out of costumes with as little fuss as possible.
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Mar 15, 2020 14:16
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Y'all missing the best one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Jv8zbUsf4
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Mar 15, 2020 15:22
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Mavrel should pay Toei so they can use this transformation for Doctor Strange https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6ox7qboSaQ
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Mar 15, 2020 15:31
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drrockso20 posted:I have a feeling transformation sequences aren't as common here in the West because A) a lot of heroes still use costumes that aren't really conducive to that kind of thing, and B) a lot of people unfortunately think that kind of thing is too childish and/or Toyetic in nature cause they still have a stick up their asses about how superheroes used to be perceived Then again, a lot of movies uses the suiting up scene which is more or less a transformation scene: 
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Mar 15, 2020 15:43
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Rhyno posted:This is the best suit up of all time I mean those eyebrows are perfectly maintained. Gripweed posted:I remember when the first movie came out that first big suit up scene with the gantries and everything being huge. I remember people going nuts over the shot where he dodges a tank shell, looks kind of pissed and just launches a wrist-rocket in response. (Iron Man in the Ultimates universe was a quasi-government project, required a team to get him in and out of the suit, and also cost like $5 million every time it was used) //oh. Almost forgot: Schumaker Bats had suit up sequences. That's likely a big reason you don't see them. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 16:45
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Alhazred posted:Then again, a lot of movies uses the suiting up scene which is more or less a transformation scene: I do think there's a difference between a traditional suit up scene and a proper transformation sequence. There's a bit of magic in a transformation sequence. Like Superman in the phone booth or Iron Man in his complicated machine or a Kamen Rider henshining, it's something not actually replicatable in real life. I don't know what the thematic difference is, but I feel strongly that there is one.
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Mar 15, 2020 17:07
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the thing about transformation sequences is theyre cool once or twice or a few times but then they are just padding that allows the production to save on time needed to film per week
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Mar 15, 2020 17:34
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I would be interested in seeing some manga transformation sequences rather than examples from TV shows. I think it's telling that most of the citations here, even on the Western side, are heavily dependent on cinematography, and little gestures that may not necessarily translate well to the printed page. Superman ducking into the phonebooth and Superman peeling back his workshirt are both interesting here in that they're aggressively static images. The one relies on the hitch or hiccup between Clark Kent entering and Superman leaving-- the drama lies in the motionless, tension-filled image of the phonebooth itself. The image of the S beneath the shirt is even more static-- its statuary. It's iconic for the framing of the rumpled and torn aside vestige of the everyday shunted to the edges of the panel, all dull blues and drab whites, with the vibrant, crisp design of the S centered. These images both work in motion obviously but they tick off time as a series of moments and interruptions that is absolutely a product of the comic book page. Ditto the Green Lantern oath, or, arguably, the classic image of Peter Parker turning his back on other characters, his face shown only to the reader, sharply divided between PP and Spider-Man. Even the bat signal-- which kind of functions as a similar narrative point of escalation-- works on an almost painterly level, this big jarring triangle slashing across the night sky. So I think the argument here is a little muddled. "American art should take a note from Japanese art" is blended in with "the printed page should take a note from television and film" which is a little more difficult to endorse. I think more fruitful examples here, again, would be drawn from manga, and unfortunately I can't think of any super iconic manga transformation sequences to draw on here.
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Mar 15, 2020 17:49
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END ME SCOOB posted:The cure to this is to watch the Heroes pilot, then you put on the Heroes Reborn pilot, and you laugh yourself silly. I watched Reborn and it was terrible, but it did do one thing with time travel that I thought was clever, and I'm only bringing this up because I don't think I'll ever have an opening (or a desire) to discuss Heroes Reborn again. Noah ended up having to work with a shady guy that he didn't trust, but ultimately, the guy proved his loyalty and showed that he was truly on Noah's side. Noah then had a time travel adventure, and when he got back, he didn't realize it, but he'd altered history so that the guy was a traitor who'd been deceiving him all along.
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Mar 15, 2020 17:49
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Gripweed posted:I do think there's a difference between a traditional suit up scene and a proper transformation sequence. There's a bit of magic in a transformation sequence. If you think that the "Ash/Ripley suiting up" sequences doesn't have a bit of magic in them I don't know what to tell you. Alhazred fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 18:55
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Alhazred posted:If you don't think that the "Ash/Ripley suiting up" sequences doesn't have a bit of magic in them I don't know what to tell you. It's all about the close ups.
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Mar 15, 2020 19:13
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Superman and the revolving door is iconic as gently caress.
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Mar 15, 2020 20:06
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Endless Mike posted:Y'all missing the best one Came to post this
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Mar 16, 2020 00:35
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Transformation sequences are just an excuse to reuse footage and you know it.
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Mar 16, 2020 00:41
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How Wonderful! posted:I would be interested in seeing some manga transformation sequences rather than examples from TV shows. I think it's telling that most of the citations here, even on the Western side, are heavily dependent on cinematography, and little gestures that may not necessarily translate well to the printed page. Archyduchess, is that you with a new name? It was so well-written, it sounded like your voice. If How Wonderful! is someone else, I apologize for the misunderstanding.
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Mar 16, 2020 00:49
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:Archyduchess, is that you with a new name? It was so well-written, it sounded like your voice. Pardon me, the Secret Identity thread is that-a-way. But yes, it is!
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Mar 16, 2020 00:54
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didnt even know that thread existed
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Mar 16, 2020 01:26
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Turbo Teen certainly had some transformation sequences. https://youtu.be/ch2Jmlu1N6M
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Mar 16, 2020 01:50
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How Wonderful! posted:Superman ducking into the phonebooth and Superman peeling back his workshirt are both interesting here in that they're aggressively static images. 
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Mar 16, 2020 02:00
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sporklift posted:Turbo Teen certainly had some transformation sequences. They did several part episode of Teen Titans Go recently that did that exact thing
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Mar 16, 2020 02:58
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Gripweed posted:Oh yeah. She only did that in a show that ran for like three years in the seventies, but still decades later even people who had never seen the show knew about it. Which just further reinforces my point. Everybody loves transformation sequences. They become iconic. American superheroes need to transformation sequences! The Flash and Arrow have a certain version of them: they have their hero look upon their costume in their hideout before cutting to the next scene. It's pretty effective.
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Mar 16, 2020 21:57
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I've been googling a lot of these Liefeld characters from Random Stranger's read-through since I've never heard of most of them. Just for a visual reference so I can follow along better. Of course, after closing the image search window, I pretty much have already forgotten what they look like. I also googled some Giffen stuff, since I love his work and I hadn't known he did anything for Liefeld's corner of the Image universe. In doing so, I ran across this: http://tearoomofdespair.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-moment-keith-giffen-blew-up.html I knew Giffen has switched his style up a number of times, but I didn't realize he did it once in the middle of an issue. Has anyone ever read any interviews where he talks about this issue? Like why he decided to do the last few pages like that?
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Mar 16, 2020 23:52
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Luchacabra posted:I've been googling a lot of these Liefeld characters from Random Stranger's read-through since I've never heard of most of them. Just for a visual reference so I can follow along better. Of course, after closing the image search window, I pretty much have already forgotten what they look like. I know he was accused of swiping from Jose Antonio Munoz a few times in the late 80s and claimed to be more assiduous and cautious about veering too far into his influences after that. Maybe he felt himself slipping into a comfort zone that would lead him towards unintentional derivation? Speaking of the 5YL stuff I just saw that an omnibus is supposed to come out this year? I often don't feel comfortable dropping such a huge chunk of change on print comics I already own but gosh that's tempting.
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Mar 17, 2020 00:48
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Time to close out September 1995's Maximum Extreme comics. Prophet #2 - Everything I know about Prophet is wrong! That's what this series promised in the first issue. The problem with that is the only thing I know about Prophet is that his backstory doesn't make any sense. This issue starts with a flashback to Prophet as walking the earth with a tribe of early hominids as they beat up monkeys. Then Dr. Wells tells Prophet that he knows everything but there's no time to explain. Prophet has to travel to Qin dynasty China to find a clue to Kirby's location. The link in time will only be there for a few minutes so Prophet has to look around at some wall carvings and then come back. Also, Dr. Wells found Prophet because Prophet was sent to kill him. In ancient China, Prophet finds out that Kirby fought with an early emperor, was captured by a weird looking guy, and then taken to the moon. But there's a terminator in the room with Prophet and a fight breaks out. Prophet beats the terminator with a sword but the time portal closes and he's stuck. The machine gave Prophet enough information to locate a space motorcycle (seriously, it's tiny compared to Prophet) and he's on his way to the moon. I really hate the "I know everything but I won't tell you anything because then we won't have a plot" speech. Prophet rightly points out that they've got a time machine so why not take all the time they need, and Wells says that they can only time travel to this spot once a day. So, maybe wait a day then? Prophet spends a lot of time trudging through snow with a giant sword on his back in this series. I feel pretty confident in calling that one a Conan homage. It has occurred to me that Prophet has no inner life in this series. In the original series, there was something. He thought back to his religious upbringing, he went kill crazy through his reactions to war simulations. This series, Prophet does what the Kirby recording says. Then he does what Dr. Wells says. Then he does what the writing on the wall says. Prophet might as well be a robot himself in this comic. There's a theme forming in this post so I want to point out something different about Prophet: the fight scene in this comic was well done. It's not brilliant or something people need to seek out. What it does is meet the bare minimum requirements or the scene making sense in the book, occurring in a space that made sense, was a challenge for the hero to overcome, had stakes that mattered beyond "This guy wants to kill the good guy", and affected the plot of the book. That's a low bar to clear and 95% of the Extreme Studios books fail to do it with their action scenes. Also, in Qin China, there's no orbital satellite beaming power to Prophet. That's not even setting up a "The ship was always there" twist; Prophet says he's not in contact with it. But he's able to smash through stone walls no problem despite being a normal guy. Maybe everything I know about Prophet is wrong? Chapel #2 - I wish this one was a limited series, but I'm afraid I'm going to be at it for a while. Chapel is after a friend's daughter who was taken. After following one of the gunmen back to their hideout, the criminal boss tells Chapel that "She's up the river! In a small town!" and that was all the information Chapel needed to hear because how many towns can there be on the Mississippi? At the small town, which looks an awful lot like the French Quarter in New Orleans complete with multiple jazz clubs and Bourbon Street, Chapel is attacked by an army of robot people. He takes two pages to shoot a lot of guns and defeat the robot army, but then has a flashback to hell which lets more robots get him. Chapel is saved by a child who changes size and shape a lot between panels, though that I'm going to pin on the artist. The kid takes him to a warehouse where the townspeople have been gathered and inside the villain is revealed. It's Giger, cybernetic bad guy, who is back "and badder than ever". The art is so bad in this book. Calvin Irving is definitely trying for "stylized" but everything is so muddy and inconsistently drawn that I have no clue what I'm looking at half the time. And there's a lot of "Are these people supposed to look weird?" situations where characters have messed up eyes or skin that may or may not be pulling off. The script is just as atrocious. It's like Eric Stephenson was trying to make the narration and dialog as EXTREME!! as possible and it comes across as childish. And since everyone is spouting soft-boiled lines at each other, it's often incoherent. Berzerkers #2 - Last issue was pretty clunky, especially creepy about the female characters, and had a ton of trademark infringement. Will issue two improve? The Berzerkers have escaped their prison and are on their way to the portal which leads to ultimate power. A team of bounty hunters including Boba Fett, Wolverine, and a guy who is just Lobo are after them. They're "40 cycles to the west" from the hunters because "cycles" is a science-fictiony sounding unit even if it makes absolutely no sense to use it for distance instead of time. The Berzerkers wander through a forest which changes to a mountainous snowfield. They're attacked by bandits where they give us their battle-cry: "Go berzerk!" Those guys are dealt with effortlessly so that we can see how badass the Berzerkers are. The snow mountains give way to desert dunes where they encounter giant sandworms. The big strong guy decides to grapple one and starts getting pulled under for the cliffhanger. The shifting climate is discussed in dialog, but there's never transitions in the art which makes it feel like the artist just drew whatever and the writer had to patch over it. In case it's not clear, I'm really losing patience with the "heroes are attacked by a jillion-zillion guys and then shoot wildly for a couple of pages to beat them all" plot that is painfully common in these books. The fight scene here added literally nothing but page count to the issue. I'm certain that the whole point was to be able to draw the characters in cool action scene poses. The action is so poorly done, though, that it becomes just filler with nothing interesting or eye catching to it. Glory #6 - I'm wrapping up the month with the two Glory books. Glory is going to have a busy couple of months with some extra comics. Glory is attacked by a zombie which she takes down. She's in a room full of corpses which in a sorority house. The only survivor in the house is the person who called her: Glory's catperson sidekick Vandal. He picked up a college student, went back with her to the house, and then everyone else was dead when he woke up. Vandal starts getting weaker himself and Glory flies him back to her apartment, which is apparently in an elementary school from the exterior shots in this comic. The cause of this is the guy who got picked up by Bloodstrike's Tag two years ago during Keith Giffen's short run. There was a suddenly dropped subplot about the guy catching zombism from her. Rather than a zombie, he became an energy vampire and Vandal's demon blood was enough to keep him going for a while. The energy vampire comes back for another feeding and Glory fights him. He gets so enthralled with eating her energy that he doesn't notice that she's flown him up to geostationary orbit and then she throws him back down. This is more what I was expecting from Glory when it started. That first storyline was garbage and the next issue was part of that crossover mess, but this is perfectly reasonable comics. The action scenes mattered, too. Though it was a trivial one that kicked the book off, it established the threat. Glory might have completely outmatched the vampire in the last fight scene but she did something other than stand there and shoot it. What didn't work was hauling out a dead plotline from so long ago. I'm getting the impression that Extreme is trying to clean up the mess they've made of their storylines but in 1995 they've already burned those bridges into charcoal briquettes and then burned those briquettes. They would be better off going forward instead of trying to fix what's broken beyond repair. Avengelyne/Glory #1 - Hey, it's the first intercompany crossover! There's actually going to be quite a lot of these, especially once Heroes Reborn The comic has a wrap around chromium cover. Maybe Liefeld just bought a ton of chromium and had to use it all? Avengelyne and Father Peter are enjoying an art exhibit all about angels when they are spotted by businessman Devlin Trask. Trask is wearing a red suit and has a pointed beard just in case you though this might have been subtle. Avengelyne is completely smitten by the devilishly handsome Devlin Trask. Meanwhile, Troll and Glory are putting a very important Amazonian artifact in the museum's vault. Glory also meets Trask and is charmed by him. That night, Avengelyne is still gushing about Trask as she gets ready for bed while Trask is hanging upside down from her roof and staring in her window. The next day, Trask invites Glory out to a nightclub and he persuades her with the line, "I won't take no for an answer!" He then calls Avengelyne and invites her to Phantom of the Opera on the same night. Will he be running back and forth between both dates? No, because it's a plot to get the artifact, of course. Devlin goes out to the show first, then the club. After the club, he goes back to Glory's place and gets her drunk so he can take advantage of her... and have her spill all the secrets of the vault. But the scene definitely reads the other way. Finally the big reveal: Devlin is a demon lord. I know it's a huge shock. Avengelyne has a dream about Devlin's mom who she used to work with in heaven. She then confronts Devlin who goes, "Oh yeah, I was scared you wouldn't like a half-angel like me. Also, by the way, the Amazons have a really powerful weapon below the museum." Glory gets a message that her dad is after the artifact so the inevitable hero versus hero fight is set up five pages before the end of the comic. The two fight for three panels when Devlin grabs the artifact. But it's an amazonian artifact so when a man touches it they explode and the comic is over. This comic really makes the strong women come across poorly. They're easily manipulated, shallow, and the plot resolves itself with no input on their part. Not to go all Virgin Chad on this, but there couldn't be any larger warning signs that Devlin was a shithead but these powerful, ancient, and wise women fall instantly in love with him. It kind of makes the crossover about the two of them fighting over a guy. And Avengelyne had the power to detect demons but couldn't pick up on this, at least Glory has the excuse of possibly being rufied. And that's September. As I'm prepping I found something special coming up soon in Extreme Studios comics. The October books lead into what might be the single worst crossover in comic book history. I'm kind of dreading getting to it because I'm anticipating it being spectacularly offensive. Luchacabra posted:I've been googling a lot of these Liefeld characters from Random Stranger's read-through since I've never heard of most of them. Just for a visual reference so I can follow along better. Of course, after closing the image search window, I pretty much have already forgotten what they look like. What, you can't tell all the people with flared Wolverine hair, tough cybernetic mercenaries with big guns, and women wearing identical bathing suits apart? How Wonderful! posted:Speaking of the 5YL stuff I just saw that an omnibus is supposed to come out this year? I often don't feel comfortable dropping such a huge chunk of change on print comics I already own but gosh that's tempting. I keep meaning to read that era of Legion even though I've heard it's kind of mess. The ideas from it sound intriguing!
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Mar 17, 2020 02:35
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Well, with my work shut down until at least the end of the month, and my income not being too hot during that I've had to cancel my pull list. Sucks.
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Mar 17, 2020 09:10
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Roth posted:Well, with my work shut down until at least the end of the month, and my income not being too hot during that I've had to cancel my pull list. Sucks. Check out Comixology Unlimited, it's like $6/month.
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Mar 17, 2020 16:20
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Hey How Wonderful (and anyone else really). One of the instructors at the college I work at is putting together an English course and....well I will let him describe it"quote:That's very nice of you. Thank you! Actually, I'm preparing for the new English (Writing Across the Disciplines) course, and I'm trying to find scholarly articles about the superhero genre that are NOT written by English instructors. I keep trying to find material by historians or sociologists. I chose superheroes because the course could be insanely boring unless we at least had a fun topic. and I am wondering if you have any recommendations. We have quite a few books on the subject at the college but I am drawing a blank in relation to any scholarly articles. If you have some recommendations let me know. Cheers
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Mar 17, 2020 18:29
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I am no longer optimistic about the Marvel Ultraman comic
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Mar 17, 2020 18:36
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Madkal posted:Hey How Wonderful (and anyone else really). One of the instructors at the college I work at is putting together an English course and....well I will let him describe it" BSS' own Big Bad Voodoo Lou has an excellent article about Daredevil written from the perspective of legal theory. Other than that most of what springs to mind is pretty close to just English/lit, at least as far as superhero stuff goes specifically. I've seen a pretty cool sociology thing about Alison Bechdel and the sort of constellation of distribution and collaboration in the 80s queer small press scene but hmm, honestly I'm drawing a blank right now. This is a really good question though and I'm very curious to see what turns up.
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Mar 17, 2020 19:24
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Madkal posted:Hey How Wonderful (and anyone else really). One of the instructors at the college I work at is putting together an English course and....well I will let him describe it" Look at the Eisners "Best Academic Work" and "Best Comic-Related Work." I can recommend "Reading Comics" by Wolk (won an Eisner in 2008). It's a series of essays on different comics he loves. A few of them are superheros.
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Mar 17, 2020 20:09
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Roth posted:Well, with my work shut down until at least the end of the month, and my income not being too hot during that I've had to cancel my pull list. What the hell are you mod of?
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Mar 17, 2020 21:32
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Roth posted:Well, with my work shut down until at least the end of the month, and my income not being too hot during that I've had to cancel my pull list. I had to do the exact same thing today, I hope the people who run/work the shop I used are ok as I think their trade has dropped off significantly.
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Mar 17, 2020 22:39
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Comics a day early if you wanna brave the streets. https://twitter.com/Newsarama/status/1240011385431625733 Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 22:40
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