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Snow Cone Capone posted:Actually, since my last Idiotic Prediction (Seven goes Borg Queen and hijacks the Cube to help Picard) came true, here's another one: To that end it also seems useful to have a bunch of examples of blurred lines next door in the form of ex-both.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:35
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Does anyone feel like they made this not knowing if it would have a second season? The Picard telling everyone he's dying thing seems like it was setup for him to make some kind of self-sacrifice.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:36
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pyrotek posted:The Zhat Vash are a super-secret Romulan society, right? So how the gently caress did they get 218 Warbirds to attack the planet? I can make up some plausible reasons, but I dunno if the show has given them. Maybe Commodore Oh is Zhat Vash posing as a Tal Shiar posing as a Federation officer, so she got them from the Tal Shiar.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:37
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Actually, since my last Idiotic Prediction (Seven goes Borg Queen and hijacks the Cube to help Picard) came true, here's another one: Senor Tron posted:Does anyone feel like they made this not knowing if it would have a second season? The Picard telling everyone he's dying thing seems like it was setup for him to make some kind of self-sacrifice. Or Picard is the one uploaded, solving his degenerative disease and dying issues.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:49
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Star Trek: Picard Season 2: ROBOT GOLEM PICARD
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Mar 20, 2020 00:15
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Leaves room for Seven to give him one more sarcastic “Ya just had to go and save the galaxy again didn’t you Picard”
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Mar 20, 2020 00:34
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pyrotek posted:Or Picard is the one uploaded, solving his degenerative disease and dying issues. That would be even dumber than any intentionally idiotic theory I could come up with, tbh
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Mar 20, 2020 00:40
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Isa Briones does a really good job here as Soji's evil twin. I agree they're leaving way too much to wrap up in the final episode, though. With Chabon gone as showrunner next season, I wonder if they will have learned any lessons with regard to pacing. Have they announced his replacement yet?
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Mar 20, 2020 00:40
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Picard’s disease probably won’t be resolved this season, that new body is 100% going to be used to bring Data back and he’ll make an impassioned joint speech with Soji to save all organic life.
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Mar 20, 2020 01:21
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PostNouveau posted:I can make up some plausible reasons, but I dunno if the show has given them. That was my read on it too. Laris said that the Zhat Vash was imbedded within the Tal Shiar, so every Zhat Vash member is probably also a Tal Shiar agent, while not all Tal Shiar are Zhat Vash, so Oh probably went “Yo, I’m calling in a bunch of Tal Shiar favours, get me every drat warbird you can muster, no questions asked.” And her Tal Shiar buddies probably went “Sure. We’re a super secret spy cult that already follows orders unquestioningly, why not.” Also TNG, DS9, and Voyager all show that when the Tal Shiar says “Jump.” The regular Romulan military starts strapping on Moon Boots because they’ll get a disruption bolt to the head if they even stop to ask “How high?” nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Mar 20, 2020 |
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Mar 20, 2020 01:29
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Regarding how that one woman could do that one thing that seemed a bit weird: honestly I assumed the mind meld was a simulacrum like everything else about them, and she was just scanning her memories with sensors in the fingertips. And yeah, it's already been explained on camera explicitly that the Tal Shiar dance to the tune of the Zhat Vash. And the Romulan military, in turn, to that of the Tal Shiar. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Mar 20, 2020 |
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Mar 20, 2020 01:47
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What the gently caress did I just watch?
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Mar 20, 2020 02:24
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istewart posted:Isa Briones does a really good job here as Soji's evil twin. I agree they're leaving way too much to wrap up in the final episode, though. With Chabon gone as showrunner next season, I wonder if they will have learned any lessons with regard to pacing. Have they announced his replacement yet? When you have a guaranteed second season you get people going "we'll use the next 6 months before season 2 to figure it out!" and then it usually just gets screwed up no matter what.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:25
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I have so many questions... How could that Romulan ship hop the transwarp conduit? Why couldn't the other Romulan ships do it? We're the names of the new synths they dropped a plot point I missed? Why were the other synths hot for T'Jaime? Are they not "activated" where this mook can get the drop on them? The Borg cube got jobbed by some flying ionic disrupter orchids? What exactly was Sooji's mission that she "completed?"
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Mar 20, 2020 02:47
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I have so many questions... Data, Lore, Arcana, Codex, Rune, Saga are all pretty obvious I think. Jana and Sutra I think are Buddhist terms but I'm not sure how they relate to the others.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:55
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I have so many questions... It seems like it was bring someone who had knowledge of the Admonition to Soong and/or Maddox. In this case it was probably intended to be Rhamda, so that's why she was sent to the Artifact. Only she hosed that up by getting involved with Narek romantically. Dajh's mission was probably to bring Jurati to Maddox, hence why he sent her to Daystrom, only she hosed that up too. And yet somehow they both lucked into succeeding after the fact as Jurati got the Admonition and then wound up with Soong anyway, partially thanks to Soji. So yeah it was Mission Accomplished with like a bajillion asterisks pinned to it. Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:
A cube that had been "dead" for 15 years prior to that, was halfway scavenged to scrap metal by the Romulans, and was being piloted manually by a space cop and kid with a pointy stick. So yeah, I'm not too surprised it got chumped so easily. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Mar 20, 2020 |
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Mar 20, 2020 03:10
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I have so many questions... It might help if you watched the episode.
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Mar 20, 2020 03:45
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I could be wrong but I'm getting some impression of Lore from the twin and from Inigo (who was unmentioned previously despite all we learn of Soong and his work). I get these synthetics are supposed to be individuals crafted by Inigo from his knowledge his father passed down and from what Maddox knew and learned from Data plus further research at the Daystrum Institute but they don't seem to be like Data and except for the twin all the others seemed rather... innocent and almost simple. Perhaps they are newer and don't have as much learned experience even if they have implanted memories and experiences like Data and Lore did. Still, they definitely seem more child-like as Data was for the first 50 or so years of his life. Their potential for emotions is clearly much more complex than either Lore's simple ones that ended up being dominated by avarice and ambition and Data's eventual more complex emotions he had to learn to cope with. What bothers me, though, is that one of Data's core values was respect for all life forms, their right to life and liberty. There were exceptions (self-defense or defending others) or grey areas he had to grapple with ("The Most Toys") but he would make sacrifices, including risking and eventually ending his own life, to ensure that he did his utmost to respect this tenet. He also tried to make sure people and institutions respected his right to life and liberty as well as his other rights. If he knew these artificial lifeforms were under threat, even immediate threat, he would encourage them to run with Picard (as he trusted him, which is kinda important) and take the evidence of Oh's betrayal and the Zhat Vash plot to Starfleet/The Federation. He would opt to save the most lives and for the best possible outcome because that is who he was and genocide, not even genocide of that scale, was abhorrent to him. I am not seeing any of that in the twin, who seems to care only for artificial life above all else, being particularly manipulative to that end, nor in what Inigo seems to value. He seems impulsive, bitter and overly-defensive of his "children." Though Noonien cared much for his creations, he also wanted them to discover for themselves what is right and then make decisions. He did not do much to protect them (and outright dismantled Lore) other than imbue them with great strength and the ability to defend themselves if in danger and also to learn and grow. Obviously the threat now is greater to the point of permanent extinction in the Milky Way galaxy but something in the way Picard looked at Inigo while Inigo mentioned "They didn't listen to him after the attack on Mars" seemed to imply that what he said was not just hurtful but almost shocking and strange. I agree the point of the two human-like twins going out was to bring back knowledge of the Admonition and other goings-on but I don't know if they knew what the consequences of it would be or if it was merely to gather intelligence as to why things went down the way they did and the Admonition happened to be the root of it. Also the way Inigo throws Maddox under the bus about his more secretive side seems bit weird to me as well. The dude just seems bitter all around. Maybe that is him being second fiddle to Noonien's research his whole life but the fact that he was never mentioned and looks just like Soong and Data and Lore and the rest is just too weird. It could also be that Picard assumes Inigo would share Data's qualities because he looked like him. Or it could be bad story telling and they needed a way to shoehorn in more Brent Spiner without actually using Lore or more Data so new character that was never previously mentioned and makes no sense as to why they exist weeeeeee Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Mar 20, 2020 |
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Mar 20, 2020 04:15
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This would be better if it was just a ten episode Mass Effect adaptation with no Star Trek setting or characters.
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Mar 20, 2020 04:23
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So Inigo has been here for a long time and that is where this group of synths comes from? They talk about this being a 'first contact' thing, but isn't Soong the person who created them? I also agree that something seems up with Inigo, but I don't know what the deal is. It would certainly fit with Lore's belief in the superiority of synthetic life that we saw in Descent before he was taken out. 100% Picard ends up in that synthetic android before the end of the last episode. They spent a lot of time in this episode making it clear that Picard was going to die and it would be sooner rather than later (which feels abrupt to me as that plot point wasn't touched on that much beyond what, the 2nd episode of the season until now?). So did Gold Soji free Narek so that he can make it harder for the La Sirena crew to stop her plan to contact the super synths? She clearly killed that other android to make the rest of them distrustful of organics. Unless something changes, that whole Borg cube plotline ended in kind of a wet fart. I've been disappointed in how they've used Seven on this show. It feels like she could have had more to do than she ended up getting.
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Mar 20, 2020 04:36
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Did a shared rewatch with my sister over facetime. We both agreed: That was pretty stupid. And really, it just feels like so much that has been setup has been worthless. What the gently caress was the point of Elron? Of Raffi? Somehow they're going to wrap all this up in a satisfying way in an hour?
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Mar 20, 2020 04:43
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ashpanash posted:Did a shared rewatch with my sister over facetime. We both agreed: That was pretty stupid. And really, it just feels like so much that has been setup has been worthless. What the gently caress was the point of Elron? Of Raffi? Somehow they're going to wrap all this up in a satisfying way in an hour? I have no idea how they are going to wrap this up in any way. I'm so glad that they spent 4 episodes of mostly unneeded setup and another couple of episodes with tons of scenes with the weird incestuous Romulan sister so that they can rush the other 60% of the plot in the final 3 episodes.
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Mar 20, 2020 04:46
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I still don’t understand why most here keep fixating on Chabon when Akiva “Perpetually Failing Upwards” Goldsman and Alex “Child With A Fake Beard” Kurtzman are more in charge.
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Mar 20, 2020 04:58
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I hope the beacon actually calls down Q to everyone's shock. There's no way they're not aware of the android federation, and they wouldn't allow them to just wipe out all organic life. You can't do a whole season of a Picard-centered show without bringing back John de Lancie. They saved him for the last episode.
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Mar 20, 2020 05:00
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also, I could be way off and Inigo (and even Maddox) is just bitter about how sentient organic life has treated sentient synthetic life over the course of it's history especially among the most accepting power in the Alpha/Beta quadrants that allegedly shares similar values. Could also be two dudes who went ahead and created it because they were so excited that they could (and had to do so against the Federation's wishes), including sentience and emotion, that they didn't give thought to some of the ethical and other serious ramifications creating such a race might have and both became attached to their creation. It's shown that Maddox learned his lesson with respect to Data's sentience and rights but even before he lost the challenge of ownership of Data he was super excited to create a whole race of Datas and didn't even conceive of what this might mean ethically (and was in denial) before Picard tore him a new one. Picard fully admitted he didn't know what a whole race of Datas would mean and was gobsmacked when Data created a child for himself, not just because he was skeptical of it personally out of human fear and bigotry but because he didn't know what it might mean for The Federation much less the galaxy at large. Starfleet was obviously perturbed at the idea of an android or synthetic life outside of their direct supervision and control. Of course, Data just wanted to be a dad and pass on some of his knowledge. Picard probably didn't think of a situation where two imperfect humans, maybe projecting and including their own faults into their creations might make something not at all like Data (even Noonien created Lore) using the similar technology that created him. I'm probably reading way too much into it, though. Q saves the day, admonishes Jean-Luc that everything is a test but this time humanity failed and will be wiped out to be replaced by the infinitely superior Klingons or Romulans or something. Only the O'brien family is left alive as a sort of warning to other mortal species.
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Mar 20, 2020 05:06
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SyRauk posted:I hope the beacon actually calls down Q to everyone's shock. There's no way they're not aware of the android federation, and they wouldn't allow them to just wipe out all organic life. I would be willing to forgive a lot about this plot if it was a massive buildup to Q just pranking the absolute gently caress out of multiple interstellar civilizations, simultaneously.
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Mar 20, 2020 05:08
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Cranappleberry posted:Only the O'brien family is left alive as a sort of warning to other mortal species. 
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Mar 20, 2020 05:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:So did Gold Soji free Narek so that he can make it harder for the La Sirena crew to stop her plan to contact the super synths? She clearly killed that other android to make the rest of them distrustful of organics. She freed Narek so she could pin the synth murder on him and get all the other robots on board with her plan to call the super synths. Before that happened, she probably figured that some or maybe even most of them would go with Picard's plan of just leaving without violence. Soji was conflicted too because she knew about the plan and that's why she was discussing with Picard about whether or not she should've murdered Narek to foil Gold Soji's plan.
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Mar 20, 2020 05:28
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I have so many questions... Look, you can either question stuff or you can see a cube fall down and shout, "gently caress'n sick!" while live tweeting the episode and constantly advertising your very good Star Trek podcast that people should totally check out. Blech episode. Space Ship Seat Belts! Space Ship Seat Belts! Remember when Riker used a 90s PC joystick to steer the space ship or whatever? That was fuckin cool, but seat belts are like, whaaaaaaaaaat, they're flying all over the place wow! Picard's dying. Ok. Don't say anything concrete. That way the audience can create the tension themselves, and then whatever we end up doing will be fine because if he dies, we said he would, and if he doesn't, we can say "ha, idiot, you took the bait". Lazy, cowardly writing. Brushing off Jurati's murder because it's just mind control, as I guessed before, isn't surprising but is still boring and makes the confusingly stupid moments meaningless as well. Remember ~*`mind melds`*~? I might be misremembering, but Vulcans can do mind melds because of their biology. They're aliens and poo poo. They don't even need to touch other people for it. Like Betazeds. Or Klingons and their hundreds of urethras. Another dumb reference added to the pile of gross contrivances. They're attempting to show how fear leads to violence and hatred, but in this instance they're representing (a very real thing that happens everywhere all the time) under the guise of, let's see, uh, "openly admitted erasure of all organic life in the galaxy". That's... powerful. That's just like that adage about writing villains: A good villain doesn't think they're the bad guy, they know they're the bad guy and they tell everybody about it while shouting their desire to eradicate innocents for the benefit of an extremely small group of people. The montage was unbelievably amateurish. Those shots that aren't lifted from earlier episodes or Disco are all stock video, they have to be. They superimposed the Starfleet logo on irobot and eyeballs. Business suit robots! The Creation of Adam! Holy poo poo! hahahahahaha.
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Mar 20, 2020 05:29
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What was the deal with "wow there must have been super brutality to drive him to violence"? I wasn't sure what he was referring to. This episode was actually had a significant amount of non-super-obvious references/things to infer alongside its super brain dead overly spelled out other half.
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Mar 20, 2020 05:47
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Vehementi posted:What was the deal with "wow there must have been super brutality to drive him to violence"? I wasn't sure what he was referring to. This episode was actually had a significant amount of non-super-obvious references/things to infer alongside its super brain dead overly spelled out other half. I think it was his "I'm going to steal the cube run all the Romulans off it" bit, which ultimately never came to pass because he got merc'd by Narissa before he got back to the Queen Cell. But the implication was pretty much that Hugh was going to take control of the cube and then beam or airlock the Romulans into space or reactivate the drones and assimilate them in revenge for what they did to the xBs. It was really clunky and deserved more than just a passing moment that literally ended on "oh, the replicators are back online now!" for reflection, but the idea behind it scans with what came before. Hugh was going kill a fuckton of Romulans.
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Mar 20, 2020 05:53
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and we would have been all onboard for that decision. Watching I, Borg recently really did go to show that Hugh was done so dirty. So much potential could've been had but no we're gonna give it to the catsuit wearer instead, probably something about metrics and ratings
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Mar 20, 2020 06:20
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Ramadu posted:These are future birds of prey, very advanced you see I just watched the scene again and Raffi says they're warbirds. They threw out the iconic design of the romulan warbird from TNG in favor of something that looks like a fighter jet. Why?
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Mar 20, 2020 06:26
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Aces High posted:So much potential could've been had but no we're gonna give it to the catsuit wearer instead, probably something about metrics and ratings Wow I just can’t believe they’re giving the plot spotlight to an established character that was around for 4 full seasons of a previous show that has a big following instead of the single episode guest star, better make a gross comment implying that it’s only because of her looks. 
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Mar 20, 2020 06:28
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That episode was downright awful, shockingly I don't even have any positives to remark upon this week. I can't see any path to getting a satisfying ending by this point. See y'all next week for the thrilling conclusion!
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Mar 20, 2020 06:42
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I'm calling it now, the advanced android race on the edges of space and time is the Q. You give any android race several million years of "evolution" and you eventually end up with something like a Q. If I don't loving hear the words "Mon Capitan" by the end of this season then I will bill CBS for wasting my time.
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Mar 20, 2020 06:55
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Aces High posted:and we would have been all onboard for that decision. Do please expand your thesis on how Hugh was robbed by the 'moids.
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Mar 20, 2020 07:02
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Do please expand your thesis on how Hugh was robbed by the 'moids. I mean, the kernel of the argument is kinda sound; Hugh should have been the one to go all Borg King on the Romulans and then live a happy life with a rad space boyfriend (who he'd conveniently just found), but kinda got robbed of it because Hugh is a longbomb continuity throwback, whereas Seven of Nine is one of the most iconic Star Trek characters ever and is still a major draw to put butts in front of TVs, so "More Seven Doing poo poo" is a fairly winning bet. The sexism part is pretty  though
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Mar 20, 2020 07:16
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Fully organic: signal probably fucks you up Fully synthetic: signal gives you detailed instructions on how to dial G for Galactic Genocide Cyborg: get wrecked
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Mar 20, 2020 07:39
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Do please expand your thesis on how Hugh was robbed by the 'moids. what's a 'moid? Also it didn't occur to me that my comment was going to be read that way, I definitely should have phrased it differently. I have nothing against Geri Ryan or Seven, it's just really frustrating how little real weight is being given to characters like Maddox and Hugh, or that other ex-Borg that was chopped up in the first 2 minutes of an earlier episode. Although of them all Hugh has probably gotten the best treatment but it's just, I hate it when characters are just used as plot devices or a quick excuse to "up the stakes" Thought I suppose you could argue that Picard's quick "well poo poo, Hugh's dead? and he was about to go Borg King on us? that's rough" could be interpreted as a "we don't have time to go into this now" type response or just another way to demonstrate how little Picard cares about anyone who isn't acting toward his end goal. I don't think that's how it was pitched and scripted at all, but gotta draw SOMETHING positive out of it all
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Mar 20, 2020 07:48
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