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Infidelicious posted:Ivanov. Ivanov but my sole concern is the soothing blue.
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Mar 21, 2020 18:14
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Ivanov, because Flankers are just cool.
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Mar 21, 2020 18:14
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Also, the F-15I is the best twin seat aircraft in the competition meaning we get more pilots into the air. The only other twin seat option is the much more limited Gripen D.
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Mar 21, 2020 18:17
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Yooper posted:
Which aircraft has the longest loiter time/ flight legs? I seem to remember the f-16s have seriously long ones, but I might be misremembering the f-15
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Mar 21, 2020 18:23
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TheParadigm posted:Which aircraft has the longest loiter time/ flight legs? I can field this. Range to patrol area or range to strike in nm, loiter times in min. Higher is better. Just some random examples of useful loadouts, if there's minutes it's usually air superiority of some type, no minutes is a useful strike package. Flanker 200nm, 125min 600nm 500nm F-15I 200nm, 230min 1150nm 900nm F-16CM 200nm, 110min 425nm 390nm JAS 39D 220nm, 0min 260nm, 0 min 180nm 550nm 280nm So the F-15I is by far the longest legged, and the Gripen by far the shortest.
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Mar 21, 2020 18:30
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Triple A posted:OPEC but with rare earth elements instead of oil. Though, Angola and Nigeria have that too. Ah. So...let's gently caress 'em up?
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Mar 21, 2020 18:35
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Sorry, let me rephrase that before Saab's marketing department assassinates me. "The Gripen D's Volvo RM12 is an improvement on General Electric's F-404-400, and is a modular, fuel efficient, low bypass ratio afterburning turbofan, with optimized internal fuel capacity that delivers excellent range and endurance."
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Mar 21, 2020 18:37
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TheParadigm posted:Which aircraft has the longest loiter time/ flight legs? Pretty much what theDemon said, here's a few screenshots of some loadout examples. SU-35S Flanker   F-15I   F-16CM Blk 52   JAS 39D Gripen   Yvonmukluk posted:What's the political leanings of these ORMEC guys anyway? I mean, I'm all for loving over corporations, but I'm also not exactly a fan of military coups. Is it just 'more money for us, gently caress you?' Politically they have more in common with the communo-libertarian-capitalist ethos that China had in the 2000's. There's just enough to trickle down to keep the populace from outright revolt but a complete mobile phone based police state procured (and hosted) by the Chinese conglomerates. Think rather like Saudi Arabia or Qatar circa 2015. A ruling class and a (mostly) contented group of everyone else. These groups don't appear to want their own populace fighting, rather like Saddam Hussein didn't want any capable generals. Whether we deal directly with ORMEC, or the border states, it's going to be supporting this system. This may be a time of less good bad but of bad or worse. Much like oil made the world move in the 20th century, now it's these rare earths.
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Mar 21, 2020 18:40
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ISARM, for all the reasons that TheDemon stated. As neat as the Gripen D is the actual advantages that it'd have IRL (dirt cheap, able to use short runways and apparently a really awesome E/W suite) either don't matter or do not seem to be modelled in CMO. (Plus the F-15Is are the only aircraft that comes in desert camouflage, like the F-16s in Strike Commander, so they're arguably more in character than the actual F-16s.) PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Mar 21, 2020 |
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Mar 21, 2020 18:48
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ISARM Our air fleet is gonna be pretty small and needs to be flexible. We've been to the African theatre before, so we know just how much terrain we could have to cover on some ops, so we're gonna need tons of range. So no Gripens then, and F-16s are gonna be tricky. F-15s have range for days and are a lot more flexible in terms of guided A2G munitions than the Flankers up for consideration. A 1980s ARM and 2nm TV guided bombs do not inspire much in the way of confidence for me, whereas the F-15 is JDAMs for days and of course our old friend the SDB. Yooper do we still have our tankers? If we do, then my vote switches to K&P
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Mar 21, 2020 18:56
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Quinntan posted:ISARM Negative on the tankers. However there will be a tanker available in the support phase. PenguinSalsa posted:As neat as the Gripen D is the actual advantages that it'd have IRL (dirt cheap, able to use short runways and apparently a really awesome E/W suite) either don't matter or do not seem to be modelled in CMO. The DECM is modeled quite well. It is surprising how survivable the Gripen can be in the right situations. Short runways are modeled but in most of the world a short runway means a lovely runway and I don't think a Gripen is going to handle a Guatemalan 450m airstrip made of dirt. In CMO runway condition (beyond damage or fires) isn't a thing unless we made it such via the story.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:05
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Yooper posted:Politically they have more in common with the communo-libertarian-capitalist ethos that China had in the 2000's. There's just enough to trickle down to keep the populace from outright revolt but a complete mobile phone based police state procured (and hosted) by the Chinese conglomerates. Think rather like Saudi Arabia or Qatar circa 2015. A ruling class and a (mostly) contented group of everyone else. These groups don't appear to want their own populace fighting, rather like Saddam Hussein didn't want any capable generals. Oh, so the Chinese did this? Clearly we must destroy them.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:10
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Great! My next question (for demon or yooper i guess) is: Which aircraft carry the most flares and countermeasures, OR have the abiltily to slap on external pods on a pylon and swap a missile out for more avoidance?
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Mar 21, 2020 19:14
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Yvonmukluk posted:Oh, so the Chinese did this? Clearly we must destroy them. Other than being a supplier selling some software the Chinese are in the same boat as everyone else : wanting the minerals. TheParadigm posted:Great! SU-35S   F-15I   F-16CM   JAS 39  
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Mar 21, 2020 19:29
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The Gripens are a classic, but the ISRAM package is probably the most solid to get us a wide variety of options. Looking forward to the support phases, that's where we usually find the fun stuff!  *Edit* I forgot, whatever happened to Greyhunter's little radar ship, is it still moored in Albania? Jimmy4400nav fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Mar 21, 2020 |
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Mar 21, 2020 19:37
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Jimmy4400nav posted:The Gripens are a classic, but the ISRAM package is probably the most solid to get us a wide variety of options. Yeah, change me to ISRAM.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:42
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Man as much as I'd love to see those Classic HG Gripens fly again, I just gotta go with the Eagles this time. Last time around our Israeli Eagles were always solid and reliable, if not particularly glamorous. I think it's time for the ISRAM package to carry the banner! e: Also, please add me to the pilot list.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:52
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Jimmy4400nav posted:*Edit* I forgot, whatever happened to Greyhunter's little radar ship, is it still moored in Albania? We still have it! It's moored in Albania but should be of use we can always bote it down.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:02
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Voting Ivanov, for the prettiest planes. E: also I forget if I'm on the pilot list, if I'm not please sign me up for an attack plane!
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Mar 21, 2020 20:12
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Change me to ISRAM as well.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:39
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I stopped watching the thread around the time I realized I'd probably never get a plane, but with Hired Goons 2.0 Waldo might actually get a chance to fly.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:01
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Grizzwold posted:I stopped watching the thread around the time I realized I'd probably never get a plane, but with Hired Goons 2.0 Waldo might actually get a chance to fly. Hey, I joined about two or three ops ago, and my fat rear end was sitting in ELINT watching my op go to poo poo last night! Don't count yourself out. Also, it was tough between Ivanov and ISARM. I love Flankers, but the F-15 lobby successfully made their case to me. I really hosed up the distance consideration in my last plan, so operation legs are a big concern of mine for this round. ISARM
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Mar 21, 2020 21:18
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Yooper posted:*Stuff* Thanks! The gripens have hilarious amounts of chaff, wow. Why didn't we make use of that before? The su-35's ECM is probably the most modern, an that's going to be an asset, especially in an 'anything goes, tons of aircraft in a blood money gold rush'. I think that air superiority is going to be our first phase of the campaign, and we'll have better options for supplementary planes as it progresses. That being said, its a wide operations theatre. I'd like for my vote to go to the plane selection that has the best mix of: Survivability & Long Range endurance. That is, strike distance, loiter time, and most importantly, NOT using pylon space for pods to get that. I'd rather a plane with built in ECM and ability to throw a drop tank on than having to give up 2 hardpoints for a droptank and a jamming pod. There's a few things I want to point out about what I've noticed: THe F-16C has no in-build DECM, its pod mount only, and ground strike missions need OTHER pods. (datalinks and litening) The gripens are neat, but we've used them before, and its time for something else. Ivanov. It has anti-runway bombs out of the gate, 2000 liter droptanks, and no-pod laser designators out of the gate, along with the best ECM, and an 8kg takeoff weight/payload capacity. I also think the ground strike setup is the best multirole so far: it triples the distance of the f-15 and still carries 4 air to air missiles. I'd happily go with Isarm, but I think that it suffers from needing to fit multiple droptanks just to get that standard 220+ nm range. Built in ecm is a plus, as is dual cockpits. The f-15's paveway setup is great too, though: Long range, and 4 Air-air missiles. Its just a shame it needs 4-6 external pods to get that performance. Notably, it can do night strikes too, while the ivanov bomb config is day only. That's not necessarily an issue. My one concern about the flankers is their countermeasures are single spectrum, but it has more overall. Overall, in the world of 3d printed trash, I think the plane with the most missiles in AA has an edge: the flankers carry 10, so 12 planes is 120 missiles. (in comparison, the f-15's AA is 8 tops, the f16 is 6, and the gripen is 4-6) TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Mar 21, 2020 |
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Mar 21, 2020 21:27
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Yooper posted:Negative on the tankers. However there will be a tanker available in the support phase. Can we see the support options at the same time as the 'choose between top picks on main strike package' vote? It would help a lot to see them side by side.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:42
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Ivanov because I dare someone to name a sexier plane than the Su-35.
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Mar 21, 2020 22:17
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ISARM
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Mar 21, 2020 22:27
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ISARM for reasons others have already stated. F-15's just seem the most versatile. sparkmaster posted:...I dare someone to name a sexier plane than the Su-35. Rafale 
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Mar 21, 2020 22:27
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TheParadigm posted:Can we see the support options at the same time as the 'choose between top picks on main strike package' vote? Maybe? I don't want decision paralysis. Sometimes multiple variables turns into a firehose of plane nerdgasm. Which is cool, but it can be a lot to process. This way everyone can digest it at once without things getting too crazy. As far as the chaff and flares, CMO does it all for us, you guys only see if it I show the message log.
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Mar 21, 2020 22:31
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ISARM
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Mar 21, 2020 23:10
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Range requirements seem to rule out the F-16 & Gripen and while I love the SBD heavy load of the F-15, I worry we'll end up with a bunch of toothless CAP planes. Just saw the F-15's have a CAP loadout with AIM-7M & Pythons. Assuming the AIM-7M is not limited, that's good enough. ISARM it is
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Mar 21, 2020 23:12
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ISARM is my choice. Also not sure if I posted this before but if we get another AWACS style plane again I-SPY would gladly take to the air again.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:23
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sparkmaster posted:Ivanov because I dare someone to name a sexier plane than the Su-35. Su-47. Which isn't even in as a hypothetical as far as I can tell, sadly.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:33
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Yooper, you magnificent bastard, these are some extremely well-chosen offers. Ivanov. We can 3DP acceptable A2G fairly easily. But whenever we try to 3DP A2A stuff someone gets hit over the head with a pint glass in the O-Club bar and the aircrews get split between Iron Eagle or Top Gun for movie night. drat if it isn't hard to pass on those F-15s and Gripens, though.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:36
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I trust Israeli engineering more than I do Soviet/Russian. ISARM
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Mar 22, 2020 01:23
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Eagles are my favorite plane so ISARM.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:25
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Going to change my vote to Ivanov, as it suits best what we need in this procurement round. I still think the Eagles are the best plane by far but we won't get a second chance to pick up a plane wrecker.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:22
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Voting to close in about 10 hours. It's fairly close between two choices here so if you're on the fence... vote!
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Mar 22, 2020 02:32
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One more vote for ISARM.
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Mar 22, 2020 03:22
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We definitely need to go with ISARM.
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Mar 22, 2020 03:26
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I know that we will never get the option to buy Mexican-designed military aircraft, but designs and concepts do exist! So I'm throwing my vote to Tecma. https://www.tecma.com/mexico-aircraft-manufacturing/
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Mar 22, 2020 05:47
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