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T___A posted:Hey guys, y'all aware of any good sources that go into detail about how cavalry was used on the Eastern Front of WW1? I will take any reason to recommend "And Quiet Flows the Don". Mikhail Sholokhov was from the Don Host Oblast. Although too young to have participated in WWI, he joined the Bolsheviks in 1918 to fight in the Russian Civil War, and married the daughter of an Ataman, so he has plenty of sources to draw on for personal accounts of mounted combat during the war. As for its use within say the larger plan of a battle, there is unfortunately precious little on this particular question in the English language. That said in broad strokes it's fairly similar in the East to how it is in the West in the early war: attacking lines of communication and supply, reconnaissance, pursuing a retreating enemy, etc. The war in the Russia's western front does settle into trench warfare as well, though it does shift in fits and starts. By the Kerensky Offensive it seems like cavalrymen were basically just infantrymen with an expensive (and very tasty) chair.
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Mar 22, 2020 16:13
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what's the difference between that and a dragoon? is there dragoon doctrine
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Mar 22, 2020 17:34
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HEY GUNS posted:what's the difference between that and a dragoon? is there dragoon doctrine By the time you hit the 20th C most cavalry are effectively dragons in reality. I know the poles were issuing lances for a long time but pretty much everyone else was fighting dismounted and I suspect the poles were as well.
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Mar 22, 2020 17:38
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Cyrano4747 posted:By the time you hit the 20th C most cavalry are effectively dragons in reality. I know the poles were issuing lances for a long time but pretty much everyone else was fighting dismounted and I suspect the poles were as well. Well duh, why else would we call them pole arms?
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Mar 22, 2020 18:03
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Cyrano4747 posted:By the time you hit the 20th C most cavalry are effectively dragons in reality. I know the poles were issuing lances for a long time but pretty much everyone else was fighting dismounted and I suspect the poles were as well. This um is an interesting mental image. The FATAL and Friends thread in trad games suggests that dragonlamces could still be a very effective weapon, however!
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Mar 22, 2020 18:23
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Beevors WWII has a surreal scene in which Greek (or possibly Armenian) lancers ride along a road while soldiers try to keep traffic going.
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Mar 22, 2020 18:47
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Tias posted:Beevors WWII has a surreal scene in which Greek (or possibly Armenian) lancers ride along a road while soldiers try to keep traffic going.
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Mar 22, 2020 22:40
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HEY GUNS posted:what's the difference between that and a dragoon? is there dragoon doctrine
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Mar 23, 2020 01:40
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I'm reading Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, and it reminds me that I'm looking for recommendations on books that go into the strategic thought of the various conventional militaries of the Cold War, and how it all evolved between 1945 and 1991.
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Mar 23, 2020 06:26
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FPyat posted:I'm reading Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, and it reminds me that I'm looking for recommendations on books that go into the strategic thought of the various conventional militaries of the Cold War, and how it all evolved between 1945 and 1991. Ralph Peter's Red Army, while also a novel (a novella, it's quite short) while isn't what you're looking for in terms of high level strategic background context, might be a good example of a sort of primer in terms of the sort of war the Soviets wanted to fight even if they rolled a lot of natural 20's in that work.
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Mar 23, 2020 07:23
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Raenir Salazar posted:even if they rolled a lot of natural 20's in that work. There's a reason for that, of course. Ralph Peters was a US Army intelligence officer and the afterword to the book is basically 'oh God spend lots more money on the military or this could happen to youuuuu'
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Mar 23, 2020 10:43
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FPyat posted:I'm reading Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising, and it reminds me that I'm looking for recommendations on books that go into the strategic thought of the various conventional militaries of the Cold War, and how it all evolved between 1945 and 1991. The Third World War by John Hackett is an excellent starting point. It was written in 1977 and posits a war in summer 1985. It was widely read at the time, so copies should be readily available. Parts of the scenario look really dated or odd today (Iran is our bestest buddy in the Middle East (oops), at the start of the war the Marines are sent to invade Yugoslavia, etc.). Cessna fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Mar 23, 2020 |
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Mar 23, 2020 16:02
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LRADIKAL posted:OK! This is kind of interesting, but now you're just talking past each other. Send me a link to your blacksmithing and coal burning megathread, please. There is a YouTube historian by the name of drachinfel who covers a lot of naval history, advances in metallurgy and more.
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Mar 23, 2020 16:24
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i've also got a similar question and i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but lately i've polished off a few books like matterhorn and the naked and the dead, which are war novels going about the lives of soldiers written at mostly the level of a platoon with maybe a few isolated dips into the perspectives of field officers and general staff during conflict are there any good books that are written mostly from the perspectives of field officers or from the general staff during wartime? i suppose i'd also settle for a biography if it were relevantly focused
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Mar 23, 2020 20:34
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hard counter posted:i've also got a similar question and i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but lately i've polished off a few books like matterhorn and the naked and the dead, which are war novels going about the lives of soldiers written at mostly the level of a platoon with maybe a few isolated dips into the perspectives of field officers and general staff during conflict https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0330509...=aa_scomp_srdg2
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Mar 23, 2020 20:49
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Good choice. I'd also suggest Grant's memoirs.
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Mar 23, 2020 20:53
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I forget, was Zaloga a trustworthy source?
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Mar 23, 2020 21:00
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Hey all, I'm looking for a site that I think was posted in here a while back, maybe i found it somewhere else but I can't find it again now. It was a stupidly extensive collection of TO&E's from WW2 and WW1 for basically every nation. It had a charming geocities look to boot. I'm pretty sure it was the work of some random wargaming guy, and google is not being helpful.
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Mar 23, 2020 22:00
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Could you be thinking of https://ww2db.com/ It doesn't have the TO&Es, but it does have an extensive list of equipment.
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Mar 23, 2020 22:16
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FishFood posted:Hey all, I'm looking for a site that I think was posted in here a while back, maybe i found it somewhere else but I can't find it again now. It was a stupidly extensive collection of TO&E's from WW2 and WW1 for basically every nation. It had a charming geocities look to boot. I'm pretty sure it was the work of some random wargaming guy, and google is not being helpful. Is this it: http://www.niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm? It's only WW2, but it otherwise fits the bill, includign being very hard to track down.
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Mar 23, 2020 22:35
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Cessna posted:Parts of the scenario look really dated or odd today (Iran is our bestest buddy in the Middle East (oops), at the start of the war the Marines are sent to invade Yugoslavia, etc.). I was confused about the US invading Yugoslavia but then I looked it up and read that it was to aid Yugoslavia against the USSR and that made sense. I really hope the original version had Tito still alive, as he intended to live forever.
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Mar 24, 2020 00:41
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Been having fun with reading old public domain books that google has on its play store for free download. And I mean 'a book about the franco-prussian war written in 1870' old. Its called 'the franco prussian war, its causes incidents and consequences'. It was written by a British guy. Its fun reading about how even back then the french chessepot was considered better than the prussian needle gun. The prussian logistics and how they compare to France's are amazing to read. The description of just how centralized and cumbersome frances system was is pretty interesting. One example was how regiments were determined. Apparently in Prussia, your regiment you joined for conscription and where you assembled was based on where you currently lived, and was updated if you moved. In france this wasn't the case, so the rail lines were clogged with soldiers trying to get to the other side of the country where their regiment would assemble. Pharohman777 fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 01:54
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So my wife has been watching a lot of Kingdom, a South Korean show about a zombie apocalypse in 1600's Korea. Obviously it takes all kinds of liberties with history, but I notice in the show that they use a lot of Japanese-style swords. Was that a thing in actual Korean history? I don't know hardly anything about that time and place, but I would have guessed Chinese-style weapons would be the norm. Maybe because Korea and Japan had been warring against each other for a while?
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Mar 24, 2020 02:44
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Pharohman777 posted:Been having fun with reading old public domain books that google has on its play store for free download. Written in 1870? Did they spoil the ending?
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Mar 24, 2020 02:47
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EggsAisle posted:So my wife has been watching a lot of Kingdom, a South Korean show about a zombie apocalypse in 1600's Korea. Obviously it takes all kinds of liberties with history, but I notice in the show that they use a lot of Japanese-style swords. Was that a thing in actual Korean history? I don't know hardly anything about that time and place, but I would have guessed Chinese-style weapons would be the norm. Maybe because Korea and Japan had been warring against each other for a while? Japan had just finished invading them and being forcibly evicted twice by 1600, so Japanese weapons we're all over the place.
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Mar 24, 2020 04:27
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Pharohman777 posted:Been having fun with reading old public domain books that google has on its play store for free download. Note that the brits shat on the needle gun every chance they had because they were always trying to justify how they made the right choice sticking with muzzle loaders for a few extra decades. The chassepot was a better gun but it was also a few decades newer - 1841 is when the needle gun came out and 1866 for the chsssepot. I’ve got a whole write up on that somewhere that I was making for another thread but I can scare it up later if anyone’s interested. The Prussians themselves realized this, hence the Mauser m1871 becoming a thing. But man the brits has a strange fixation for a while with bagging on the needle gun. A lot of it’s deficiencies are over blown and if was a good solution to some very specific issues that Prussia had while playing to their strengths.
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Mar 24, 2020 05:11
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Cheap? what no we're not cheap! *thumbs round awkwardly into converted Enfield musket*
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Mar 24, 2020 05:21
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The thing is that a lot of their complaints and rationale for not adopting something broadly similar made a lot of sense. Britain and Prussia had pretty different needs and capabilities. But holy crap they took every chance they had to insist they no in 1850 it’s better to have a muzzle loader than a breach loaded bolt action, categorically, that gun can’t work for Prussia because we decided it wasn’t right for us. I really need to find that write up. Or rather part of. I think the fucker was going on ten pages last I saw.
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Mar 24, 2020 05:27
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Given the requirements for social distancing and the need to stay 6 feet away from others, whats the best polearm to use in this situation? Spetum?
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Mar 24, 2020 06:03
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Boar spear, in case the other person keeps trying to get close.
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Mar 24, 2020 06:09
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The Lone Badger posted:Boar spear, in case the other person keeps trying to get close. But with a Spetum or Ranseur, you have the hooks along the shaft to push them away.
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Mar 24, 2020 06:10
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The Lone Badger posted:Boar spear, in case the other person keeps trying to get close. Man catcher. Hook them and then just keep pushing them back.
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Mar 24, 2020 06:22
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ChubbyChecker posted:I forget, was Zaloga a trustworthy source? Yeah he's one of the top dudes for US tank development during World War II.
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Mar 24, 2020 06:37
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EggsAisle posted:So my wife has been watching a lot of Kingdom, a South Korean show about a zombie apocalypse in 1600's Korea. Obviously it takes all kinds of liberties with history, but I notice in the show that they use a lot of Japanese-style swords. Was that a thing in actual Korean history? I don't know hardly anything about that time and place, but I would have guessed Chinese-style weapons would be the norm. Maybe because Korea and Japan had been warring against each other for a while? I think it would be surprising if Japanese weapons hadn't influenced Korea in this period, but I'd also be cautious about suggesting they are using Japanese style swords. What's the specific difference between Chinese and Japanese style swords in this period, and what distinguishes Korean arms from both of these places? Single edged curved blades with a disc pommel were common all over northern Asia from at least the medieval period forward. There was always continuous cultural exchange between Korea, China, and Japan, and all places influenced each other. Given that it can be difficult to determine what came from where or when. edit: here's an example of some of the back and forth influence in sword design at play in the region:  The blade here is a Chinese made woyaodao from the 17th or 18th century. The woyaodao however translates to "Japanese styled waist-worn saber." Clearly it is a mainland sword influenced by Japanese style from exactly the period of the show Kingdom. However the woyaodao style of sword was already in use in China as of the late 14th century. By the point this blade was manufactured it has been a particularly Chinese weapon for hundreds of years, evolving independently of Japanese swords. Going back even further, the katana itself owes a lot of elements of its design to sword styles imported from the mainland. Squalid fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 07:50
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Don Gato posted:Japan had just finished invading them and being forcibly evicted twice by 1600, so Japanese weapons we're all over the place. Even before the invasion, Japanese swords were desired and got imported, and influenced Korean-made swords heavily. That style was more of a thing for aristocrats though; military officers often used more Chinese-styled swords.
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Mar 24, 2020 08:09
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 From the 16th century Chinese book Jixiao Xinshu. Edit: Oh, neat. That book was the basis for a later Korean manual titled Muyejebo, which was later expanded with some Japanese manuscript sources. Siivola fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 08:09
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Yeah he's one of the top dudes for US tank development during World War II. Thanks!
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Mar 24, 2020 12:42
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Cyrano4747 posted:Note that the brits shat on the needle gun every chance they had because they were always trying to justify how they made the right choice sticking with muzzle loaders for a few extra decades. The chassepot was a better gun but it was also a few decades newer - 1841 is when the needle gun came out and 1866 for the chsssepot. I’ve got a whole write up on that somewhere that I was making for another thread but I can scare it up later if anyone’s interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfHtvdgIWws 
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Mar 24, 2020 12:45
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Beardless posted:Is this it: http://www.niehorster.org/000_admin/000oob.htm? It's only WW2, but it otherwise fits the bill, includign being very hard to track down. That's the one! Thank you.
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Mar 24, 2020 13:58
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Cyrano4747 posted:The thing is that a lot of their complaints and rationale for not adopting something broadly similar made a lot of sense. Britain and Prussia had pretty different needs and capabilities. But holy crap they took every chance they had to insist they no in 1850 it’s better to have a muzzle loader than a breach loaded bolt action, categorically, that gun can’t work for Prussia because we decided it wasn’t right for us. It honestly amazes me how they pulled off the hat trick by returning to muzzle loaded artillery for most of the late 19th century but they were kind of right as well the technology behind the early breech loaded artillery pieces caught up. Rifled muzzle loaded artillery pieces are kind of cool too. You just turned the biggest shotgun into the biggest rifle.
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Mar 24, 2020 16:02
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