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PeterWeller posted:So wait, what does 3039 mean in common use then? Like I know about the Helm Memory Core and the IS having a bit of a technological renaissance during the time, and I know that's not really reflected in the TRO:3039 with the Banshee and Guillotine on the cover. But like when people say something like "play 3039 Battletech," what do they mean? Defiance Industries is referring to "mostly Introductory tech, with a couple 'Mechs per side at most with cool stuff". Most times I'd expect to hear people who classify games by year be referring instead to just Introductory Tech, because that's a hard habit to break. There isn't a 'new' TRO:3039 I'm aware of, but TRO: Succession Wars fills the same basic niche without getting mired in 'what year is it?' tech dissonance.
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Mar 22, 2020 00:54
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PeterWeller posted:So wait, what does 3039 mean in common use then? Like I know about the Helm Memory Core and the IS having a bit of a technological renaissance during the time, and I know that's not really reflected in the TRO:3039 with the Banshee and Guillotine on the cover. But like when people say something like "play 3039 Battletech," what do they mean? I mean this. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Historical:_War_of_3039 Not just the military campaign itself, but the expansive tech rules in the back for the Houses' prototype Star League weapons and especially Prototype DHS. Strobe posted:There isn't a 'new' TRO:3039 I'm aware of, but TRO: Succession Wars fills the same basic niche without getting mired in 'what year is it?' tech dissonance. I think it actually has that problem to a much greater degree. Yes, I know that Star League tech didn't really start going extinct until midway through the 2nd Succession War, but when you think "BattleMechs of the Succession Wars era" you probably aren't jumping to "a bunch of Gauss boats." Not even getting into it having stuff like the Ymir in it that stopped production a century before the Star League collapsed Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 01:24
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Defiance Industries posted:I think it actually has that problem to a much greater degree. Yes, I know that Star League tech didn't really start going extinct until midway through the 2nd Succession War, but when you think "BattleMechs of the Succession Wars era" you probably aren't jumping to "a bunch of Gauss boats." Not even getting into it having stuff like the Ymir in it that stopped production a century before the Star League collapsed We could argue about what 'Mechs were actually included for a good long while, but I think that the general trend toward decoupling "what units are available for a game" from explicit year to move toward era is probably healthier overall, especially for non-grogs who are either new or don't have every introduction date for their favorite units memorized. "Let's play a game in the year 2930" and trying to find out what is and isn't extinct by then is just a loving chore. "Let's play a game in the Succession Wars" is ridiculously intuitive by comparison.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:42
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Strobe posted:"Let's play a game in the year 2930" and trying to find out what is and isn't extinct by then is just a loving chore. "Let's play a game in the Succession Wars" is ridiculously intuitive by comparison. So if all the Star League mechs are fair game for a Succession Wars game, what is the difference? A Succession Wars game has the Hatchetman and Raven? Like I said, nobody thinks of a Devastator when they think of the Succession Wars. They only built eight of them before the Succession Wars ended.
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Mar 22, 2020 01:50
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Strobe posted:We could argue about what 'Mechs were actually included for a good long while, but I think that the general trend toward decoupling "what units are available for a game" from explicit year to move toward era is probably healthier overall, especially for non-grogs who are either new or don't have every introduction date for their favorite units memorized. When you only quote half my post it sure makes it easier to nitpick. I don't entirely agree with the selection of 'Mechs, either. That's entirely different than having to have a unit's TRO page pulled up and/or memorized to know what units are available; the fact that only eight Devastators were made before the end of the Succession Wars is exactly the kind of thing I mean by that.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:05
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There should not be Star League tech machines in a Succession Wars book. Period. Nobody playing "Succession Wars" games is doing so with XL engines and Gauss rifles. You would not put iHGR mechs with Ferro-Lamellor Armor in a TRO: FCCW just because those technologies had a single example chilling out in a lab. Tech levels weren't perfect but they're a drat sight better than "Succession Wars" games covering everything from a primitive BWP-1X to a Nightstar. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 02:25
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Defiance Industries posted:There should not be Star League tech machines in a Succession Wars book. Period. Except for 1st and 2nd Succession War games, you mean. Because it sounds a lot like what you're objecting to is that a book called "Succession Wars" has the audacity to include anything outside the 3rd and 4th. Tech level still exist, my dude. "Introductory" is still a thing, and sounds a lot like the thing you want.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:33
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Strobe posted:Defiance Industries is referring to "mostly Introductory tech, with a couple 'Mechs per side at most with cool stuff". Most times I'd expect to hear people who classify games by year be referring instead to just Introductory Tech, because that's a hard habit to break. Yeah, I tend to think of things in terms of 3025 tech or 3050 tech, and I've never played much past the Clan invasion, so HAGs and MRMs and stuff like that are completely outside my wheelhouse. TRO: Succession Wars was the book I was thinking of, and it sounds like it's a very different book from 3039. Defiance Industries posted:There should not be Star League tech machines in a Succession Wars book. Period. From what you guys are saying, it strikes me that tech levels are probably still the best method. I care less about fidelity to fluff and more about the even playing field. Like it wouldn't bother me to see a Lineholder lanced up with a Ymir.
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Mar 22, 2020 02:39
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Yes, the implication I was making is that nobody plays that era. It's indistinguishable from the late Star League.PeterWeller posted:MRMs are completely outside my wheelhouse. Keep them there. MRMs are really bad. Even the fix-it tech they introduced punishes you for using it. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 02:40
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PeterWeller posted:From what you guys are saying, it strikes me that tech levels are probably still the best method. I care less about fidelity to fluff and more about the even playing field. Like it wouldn't bother me to see a Lineholder lanced up with a Ymir. Tech Level is one way, but the best balancing mechanism that we have by far is Battle Value. Even within the same tech level and tonnage you can have excellent 'Mechs (Awesome AWS-8Q) against walking trash cans (Charger CGR-1A1).
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Mar 22, 2020 04:09
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Strobe posted:Tech Level is one way, but the best balancing mechanism that we have by far is Battle Value. Even within the same tech level and tonnage you can have excellent 'Mechs (Awesome AWS-8Q) against walking trash cans (Charger CGR-1A1). Oh yeah, I know. I specifically avoided the term "balance" there because that wasn't really what I was talking about. I really just mean that I like when everything is designed using the same OG rules. Which is really just another way of being a grog about Battletech.
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Mar 22, 2020 06:05
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Pretty weird that the DCMS' solution to 'we need a simple easy to use weapon for our hordes of lovely recruits' was 'a weapon which requires unusual gunnery skill to aim.' Maybe it's representing the fact that you don't need to train up on all sorts of fancy targeting, you just point and barf? Still, you'd think they'd go with pulse lasers or something, since they're described as having computerized autoaim.
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Mar 23, 2020 00:37
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The DCMS didn't have lovely recruits, is the thing. The DCMS sent all those to go catch bullets in the infantry.
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Mar 23, 2020 00:46
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Huh, I thought the impetus behind the MRM was "we need a cheap easy to use weapon for our zillions of new MechWarriors."
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Mar 23, 2020 00:52
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General Battuta posted:Huh, I thought the impetus behind the MRM was "we need a cheap easy to use weapon for our zillions of new MechWarriors." That's the explanation from FM: DC, which is set around the time of Bulldog. Then that wasn't how Bulldog actually went down so what was the point? I know there's a couple of different pre-Bulldog books that, when giving examples of a campaign that players might play, says something like "Hey what if the Combine suddenly formed a bunch of new regiments and then threw literally everything they had at the Clans, that would be really crazy, right? Maybe you could play that" so I wonder if they were building to a different kind of DC vs. CSJ throwdown at some point.
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Mar 23, 2020 00:59
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Really the MRM should have been a bonus to hit and a penalty to cluster rolls. It's a missile shotgun.
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Mar 23, 2020 05:59
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That's how the Apollo FCS should work. Instead, you pay 1 ton/crit for the privilege of negating the +1 TN penalty and take a -1 to your cluster rolls (because paying an extra ton and crit was not penance enough for using MRMs). And like Artemis you have to use it on ALL MRMs you have mounted.
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Mar 24, 2020 07:19
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That might actually be more worth it than Artemis. I haven't crunched the numbers but I'm guessing improved TN is worth much more in terms of expected damage than a shift on the cluster chart, especially on big MRMs. Totally pulling this from my rear end, though. e: of course since Artemis applies to much better weapons, Apollo might still be polishing a turd
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Mar 24, 2020 17:25
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Because of the way the larger cluster tables work, the effect of a -1 on the cluster table depends entirely on what number you hit. It can be no change in the number of missiles or it can mean a 20% decrease in total damage. Also, a +2 on a cluster table almost always results in more damage (the only exceptions are rolling a 5 and 6), whereas hit rolls are basic pass/fail. Personally, I think equipment that increases your cluster rolls is more useful, because you can always spend BV on a better pilot, but a better pilot still rolls the same (unless you're using quirks, in which case balancing things goes out the window anyway)
Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 24, 2020 |
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Mar 24, 2020 18:21
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Apollo is extra weird because 6-7-8 on most cluster charts that they come in are all the same number of missiles, so the mode average doesn't change at all and the mean average takes a much slighter skew than the really dramatic effect of a 2 point influence on the curve.
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Mar 24, 2020 18:32
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If you want the new TROs, they're going for ten bucks a pop on Drivethrurpg.com right now
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Mar 29, 2020 22:05
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So I finally decided to get into the TT version of Battletech. I've been familiar with the series since I was a kid playing Mechwarrior 2 and have been playing the hell out of the turn-based game. I picked up the new starter and I'm planning on actually getting games in once quarantine isn't a necessity. But I can paint right now. Are you generally supposed to pick a House/Clan and stick to their scheme? Or is it fine to go hog-wild? I know they're my minis and I can paint them how I want, but knowing the general expectation is nice. Especially since I'm thinking of going against the grain and doing a white-based scheme (most of the time I see mechs painted like modern military stuff: blacks, dark greens, greys, etc...).
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Apr 14, 2020 06:20
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Doing whatever is fine for pickup play, but there's basically no structure to force creation, so factions and eras are kind of what gives the game anything beyond just picking whatever units you think are best.
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Apr 14, 2020 07:05
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So far I just have the new plastic starter box and I picked up a Madcat Mk2 model just because I've always liked it. I'll probably get the clan box too once it drops. So stuff should stay pretty balanced.
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Apr 14, 2020 07:20
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Until earlier this month I think I had three Clans and six major Inner Sphere factions (plus Wolf's Dragoons) represented with at least a battalion size force each, so no you're not at all expected to pick a faction and stick with it.
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Apr 14, 2020 16:04
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I'm a weirdo who likes to paint single lances in the colors of rarer (usually because they're not very good) canon units; and then paint more of that unit if I find a color scheme I like or enjoy painting. Some of my surprise favorites have been Bannson's Raiders, because tan and teal works surprisingly well; the CCAF's Prefectorate Guard, because byzantine purple and gold looks amazing; the 1st Sword of Light because bright red, and Clan Jade Falcon Zeta Galaxy, because bright green and bone is way more fun to look at than drab army green and brown camo; and the Lyran Commonwealth's Bolan Defenders militia, because tan desert camo with a bright blue head is pretty striking.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:25
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One thing that is good about the Inner Sphere is that there are tons of inexplicable mercenaries everywhere, so you can really do any color scheme you like. Painting all your guys like members of the same faction really helps them feel like part of something bigger, but even then a Lance here or there representing allied units is very typical. Once the Kickstarter delivers (  ) I plan to do all the guys in the starter as Clan Diamond Shark because that was my Clan back in the day, but all my other clan stuff is going to be Clan Ice Hellion because they are the best.Inner Sphere 4 Lyfe though.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:40
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My first goal is to replace my Jade Falcons Gamma Cluster and paint the Inner Sphere stuff as an Oriente Hussars regiment. After that is probably Snow Ravens because fighters own.
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Apr 14, 2020 18:46
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My paint schemes over the years went from terrible to an agent at at a standard scheme then after some time doing 40k I decided to go with fairly generic camo patterns for most of the units. IS units got a brown base woodland camo while Clan stuff got a green base jungle camo. The most recent stuff I painted was a demi-compamy done in the color scheme of the players I was running a mercenary campaign for. Not sure yet what I'll do with the Kickstarter units.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:00
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I'm a huge sucker for Clan Snow Raven's Epsilon Garrison Cluster's paint scheme and I have 30+ protomechs specifically because of it.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:15
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My current collection is kinda a riotous mix of colors and I love it.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:37
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PoptartsNinja posted:My current collection is kinda a riotous mix of colors and I love it.  All of my mechs are random colors. I only have 16 though, but want to continue to add to my collection.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:53
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All the classic mechs I get for *me* get Crescent Hawks color schemes. All my "OPFOR" mechs are in various camo schemes.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:54
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Strobe posted:I'm a huge sucker for Clan Snow Raven's Epsilon Garrison Cluster's paint scheme and I have 30+ protomechs specifically because of it.
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Apr 15, 2020 11:37
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Atlas Atlas and friends 
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Apr 15, 2020 15:43
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Once the Kickstarter delivers ( I'm going to be doing mine as Clan Ghost Bear, specifically Delta Galaxy because gray with a cool blue trim is awesome, because a decent mix of both clan and inner sphere mechs makes more sense with them and also they conquered a planet through a game of american football which automatically makes them the coolest faction.
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Apr 16, 2020 03:00
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Or it makes Rasalhague the stupidest for thinking they could win against men the size of a car.
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Apr 16, 2020 04:49
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Defiance Industries posted:Or it makes Rasalhague the stupidest for thinking they could win against men the size of a car. Unless the unit commander was an Elemental how would they even have known?
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Apr 16, 2020 05:34
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Strobe posted:Unless the unit commander was an Elemental how would they even have known? Sheliak was invaded in Wave 5, which was after the year's hiatus caused by the death of Leo Showers and everyone got their leaders together on Outreach so Jaime Wolf could explain all their Clan bullshit. By 3051, people were no longer under the impression they were sentient fungus. Their plan was basically predicated on the idea that the Clans wouldn't know any of the rules.
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Apr 16, 2020 06:21
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DrPop posted:Atlas Nice work m8
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