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Please stop spreading racist propaganda
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Mar 24, 2020 20:54
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Tulip posted:I prefer COD2 to COD1 largely because i found COD2 vampires to have a better link between "stuff on character sheet" and "stuff that matters for fiction," but the two editions are similar enough that porting stuff between them shouldn't be too hard. Yeah, I think especially for an intimate political / psychological game having stuff like Touchstones and Ambitions would be very usefully.
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Mar 24, 2020 22:18
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Ferrinus posted:My take is that 2E is generally a sidegrade from 1E for most games: a lot of cool, fresh setting ideas and some genuinely good rules, but tons more fiddly and easily-forgotten cruft along with a really sharp turn into super swingy rocket tag combat or rhetorically flashy win buttons that are much more fun to read about than to use or get hit by. I'd be inclined to basically play 1E but hijack 2E ideas (including sometimes Discipline progressions) liberally, but that requires a willingness to spend some time balancing and retrofitting stuff. That said, 2E isn't bad or anything and I've got some friends playing a 2E Changeling game more or less by the book for whom it's working just fine. Okay, so basically pressing the remix button is a good idea. Got it! Any other books I should look at besides Mirrors and Danse Macabre? How are Immortals and Slasher? What about Glimpses of the Unknown? Or Strange Dead Love, Blood Sorcery: [words about Acolytes and the Lancea Sanctum], Guide to the Night, or Secrets of the Covenants.
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Mar 24, 2020 23:51
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No clue on the other ones, but slasher is great.
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Mar 24, 2020 23:58
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Arivia posted:Okay, so basically pressing the remix button is a good idea. Got it!
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Mar 25, 2020 00:13
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Immortals is weird. It's basically non- vampires with alternate immortality schemes but who are also monstrous in other ways IIRC. It's very niche, and they're much more rare in the WoD than vampires. One might make for a compelling antagonist, since their memories aren't scrambled by the fog of ages. Maybe they know something you need to. I've heard mixed things about Strange Dead Love, you're probably best looking for something more universally applicable like Chicago or even one of the Free RPG Day starters that's full of NPCs. Reap the Whirlwind was terrible as an introductory pickup game, but it's great as a resource to work into your campaign.
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Mar 25, 2020 00:21
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Chicago is perfectly serviceable as a setting. Even better if you’re not scared to just throw things out and make a mess of things. I was hoping to see New Wave Requiem in that list. If I was running a solo game, I’d absolutely take a stop in the 80’s for a few sessions. So many narrative devices that you can use solo that are much more complicated in a larger game. So I’d definitely time skip things as much as is fun. You can really nail that feeling of being a vampire over the ages where the world changes, but vampires have a hard time keeping up and hold long grudges. Definitely mix and max between 1e and 2e Requiem too. Setting is the easiest to just do what you want, and the 2e rules are a lot better in enough places that I would probably start there. Sounds like fun, leave a trip report if you get a chance.
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Mar 25, 2020 00:54
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Arivia posted:Okay, so basically pressing the remix button is a good idea. Got it! Chronicles of Darkness Second Edition Rulebook. No, I'm serious. In second edition, your best one-stop shop for miscellaneous supernatural stuff for your Vampire game that isn't vampires is the mortals rulebook, which now contains a system for designing miscellaneous Horrors. To make a sorcerer you might need to supplement their Dread Powers with Supernatural Merits (also in the mortals rulebook) or borrowed blood sorcery rituals or something, but Horrors are a good base system. World of Darkness: Immortals is a little all over the place. It's a bunch of specific models of immortal rather than one-size-fits-all, like Bathory-style "blood bathers," body thieves, Dorians Gray, and some stranger concepts like enlightened hermits who bound their soul to the Shadow Realm. It has the occasional strong hook pitched in but unless one of those ideas sings to you I would skip it. Glimpses of the Unknown is a lot all over the place. It's a short supplement filled with rapidfire, unfleshed out adventure ideas and one brief mechanical widget writeup for each gameline up through Geist. You're honestly better off with the compilation of rpgnet Rumors in the Style of Unknown Armies threads, World of Darkness: Rumors. I may be biased because I compiled it. Blame clumsy, dense or unfriendly layout on me flailing my way through Scribus for the first time. World of Darkness: Slasher is strong within its niche. If you want pulpy horror killers who dance on or jump past the line between natural and supernatural, from Jigsaw to Jason, it is a solid buy. Strange Dead Love is pulpy and broad and has some strange ideas about story pitches. Not just strange in the sense of "deliberately deviates from the default Requiem setup" but strange in the sense of "accepting the premise of pulpy supernatural romance, this is still a weird idea for a story," like a section on domains where the cardinal vampiric Traditions have added Do Not Love to the list, without any clear reason presented why. Blood Sorcery: Sacraments and Blasphemies is also a solid buy if you expect a lot of blood sorcery, and obviously, not super useful if you don't. The Second Edition corebook's rites and miracles were designed to obey the guidelines for ritual creation in Blood Sorcery, so that you can plug Blood Sorcery's optional system for freeform blood sorcery into Second Edition and it will fit. Guide to the Night is not super good unless you feel a need for storytelling advice about Requiem. Half the optional mechanical systems plug into very eclectic scenario premises like "vampire space opera" and "Korea at the dawn of the 17th Century." It does have a bunch of NPC vampires written in the broadest of strokes for when you need an idea to start from. If you don't mind books that mostly consist of artifact letters and vignettes to spin plots out of or serve as atmosphere to inspire the Requiem, you could do worse than to get the five Requiem clanbooks, which remain some of the best nWoD writing, not too far behind the Horror Recognition Guide. I Am Just a Box fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 00:58
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Arivia posted:Okay, so basically pressing the remix button is a good idea. Got it! Requiem 2e's core is pretty self contained. You could grab that and be good for a long time. However, Secrets of the Covenants is a wonderful book - the only other vampire rulebook I ordered print on demand. It's beautiful and has great systems that expand the setting along with its found fiction/journal story elements that take up most of the books. The books that originated that format are the clanbooks, which are some of the best splatbooks white wolf ever printed - especially Daeva, Ventrue, and Mekhet. Other good Requiem stuff: Greg Stolze and Lucian Soulban's Chicago trilogy starting with A Hunger Like Fire were amazing and had evocative passages I'll never forget. Lastly, I'm a huge fan of The Testament of Longinus. This one's extremely esoteric, but is phenomenal if you're into higher criticism or just anything by Bart Ehrman. It's also really good for players struggling with the Lancea et Sanctum - a covenant that can be a bit difficult to figure out.
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Mar 25, 2020 04:48
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Is the Pledge of Allegiance an occult matrix?
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Mar 25, 2020 06:03
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so has Onyx Path given up on Contagion Chronicle yet, or are they just kinda hoping noone gets upset about this whole coincidence?
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Mar 25, 2020 06:15
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I don't think occult matrices operate that broadly. An occult matrix might have say one particular school/classroom/child saying the pledge of allegiance at a particular time as a lynch-pin, though. Most really large scale occult matrices seem to an unfathomably complex series of smaller occult matrices that build to them - so like an occult matrix that requires the seventh son of a seventh son to commit suicide summons a hunter angle which takes out a drunk driver who would have otherwise caused a hit-and-run that would have killed a man who eventually founds a cult that develops political power and rigs a mayoral election so when the mayor is sworn into office on the 350th anniversary of a forgotten historical massacre where the town hall is now located, the whole town becomes a fractured timeline. It's relatively important that the bigger matrices be that convoluted because Demons need to pose a legitimate threat to the God-Machine for the whole game to work. The PCs are massively outgunned and some kind of total victory is probably impossible but if they're smart and stick religiously to the tradecraft they can seriously gently caress up the G-M's plans. A matrix whose lynch-pin is "the pledge of allegiance" isn't one a ring can reasonably disrupt. On the other hand it's absolutely proof of the lie and strengthens the Exarchs, even if it might not have been their idea. The Hegemonic Ministry is probably invested in keeping the pledge going, for example.
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Mar 25, 2020 06:28
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A friend just gifted me a pdf of the new Trinity book, Distant Worlds. I've wanted to play a Qin since I first read the original corebook more than 15 years ago, I'm so hype. 
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Mar 26, 2020 20:42
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:so has Onyx Path given up on Contagion Chronicle yet, or are they just kinda hoping noone gets upset about this whole coincidence? Outside of RPGers who's even going to know about it to get upset over it? A Kickstarter (that I pledged money to) was run and eventually (I hope) those who pledged will quietly get their materials delivered through the mail or online. Figure Corona beer has a much larger problem than Onyx Path does at this point.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:06
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I'm not sure if anybody even read the Contagion Chronicle manuscript, because I didn't see much discussion of any of the crazy stuff inside. (it is very bad)
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Mar 26, 2020 23:19
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I basically ignored the whole thing, what's the deal?
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Mar 26, 2020 23:21
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Ferrinus posted:I basically ignored the whole thing, what's the deal? Okay, so, first thing, what is the deal? That's the problem. Okay, so Contagion Chronicle is an epic crossover chronicle that lets you bring together a bunch of splats to fight against the Contagion. What is the Contagion... the book isn't really clear. They basically made the book so toolkit that it's not actually about anything, and part of that is that the Contagion is just... whatever you want it to be. Later chapters kind of settle on the idea that it's basically a corruption in the God-Machine, but the book isn't consistent about this. It's basically a bunch of weird poo poo that just happens, and honestly doesn't seem noticeably worse than the poo poo that goes on in the World of Darkness on any given Thursday. As a result of this, the splats are also very vague. They're divided into Sworn (stop the Contagion) and False (exploit the Contagion), and are mostly distinct approaches to the Contagion, but some of them... don't make a lot of sense. Of course, since it's a toolkit you don't have to assume they all exist, but it just inflames the problem that the book commits to so few facts that it's not about anything. One splat is The Technocracy If The Technocracy Was Really Into Hiring Vampires and Werewolves And Letting Them Wear Mirrorshades, and their deal is basically "the Contagion is man's inhumanity to man, and if we control everything and get people to calm the gently caress down, everything will be okay." Then the next group believes the Contagion is a secret message from somebody and wants to decode it. Some of them sort of work but they just don't add up to a coherent picture of what Contagion is or does, because there isn't one. Also the powers are crazy. Like, maybe that's not actually bad for a self-described "epic" campaign? It's hard to judge. But they start with things like "sure, tap into any camera anywhere on the globe, you own the CIA" and end with "have a free point of your favored supernatural juice for every Resources dot you have, every story." That's five points of vitae for a rich vampire, which basically means he doesn't have to drink blood any more. Some of the settings are sort of interesting? But they're also all completely different and don't really require the Contagion idea to work because the World of Darkness is supposed to be full of this kind of thing.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:34
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Rand Brittain posted:I'm not sure if anybody even read the Contagion Chronicle manuscript, because I didn't see much discussion of any of the crazy stuff inside. I'd post a million words about it, but the last time you came in here saying "I haven't seen much discussion about Hunter Second Edition" and I posted a million words about Hunter Second Edition you didn't respond in any way, so I'll just say it's bad and move on. Not Hunter "it's disappointing," but outright It's Bad.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:36
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I Am Just a Box posted:I'd post a million words about it, but the last time you came in here saying "I haven't seen much discussion about Hunter Second Edition" and I posted a million words about Hunter Second Edition you didn't respond in any way, so I'll just say it's bad and move on. Not Hunter "it's disappointing," but outright It's Bad. I went back and looked at what you wrote about Hunter 2e, and it looks like I didn't really respond because I agreed with you pretty thoroughly. Sorry!
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Mar 26, 2020 23:42
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I Am Just a Box posted:I'd post a million words about it, but the last time you came in here saying "I haven't seen much discussion about Hunter Second Edition" and I posted a million words about Hunter Second Edition you didn't respond in any way, so I'll just say it's bad and move on. Not Hunter "it's disappointing," but outright It's Bad. Please, for my sake, post a million words about the Contagion Chronicle, I am really curious about it but refused to back it, because I didn't want it, I wanted to mock it. It's just such a transparently bad idea! I'd love to see what its crossover ideas and thematic engagement look like, because all of them seem... bad. And if they're not bad, I'd love to hear about it.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:44
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Rand Brittain posted:Also the powers are crazy. Like, maybe that's not actually bad for a self-described "epic" campaign? It's hard to judge. But they start with things like "sure, tap into any camera anywhere on the globe, you own the CIA" and end with "have a free point of your favored supernatural juice for every Resources dot you have, every story." That's five points of vitae for a rich vampire, which basically means he doesn't have to drink blood any more. Wow. Also, do you mean 'chapter' (session) or 'story' for blood? Because I can see 'gets 5 mana for the entire storyline' as an acceptable Merit, but 'gets 5 mana for day for having 5 resources' - that is just nonsense of a majestic degree. And how does it combine with the Luxury merit!?!?
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Mar 26, 2020 23:54
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Joe Slowboat posted:Wow. Also, do you mean 'chapter' (session) or 'story' for blood? Because I can see 'gets 5 mana for the entire storyline' as an acceptable Merit, but 'gets 5 mana for day for having 5 resources' - that is just nonsense of a majestic degree. And how does it combine with the Luxury merit!?!? Story. Not sure about the merit thing.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:59
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Joe Slowboat posted:Please, for my sake, post a million words about the Contagion Chronicle, I am really curious about it but refused to back it, because I didn't want it, I wanted to mock it. It's just such a transparently bad idea! I'd love to see what its crossover ideas and thematic engagement look like, because all of them seem... bad. I dunno, I was immediately interested in "some weird ?disease? is prompting Crossover Episodes" and I don't think it's all that hard to start building a fairly cool and useful toolbox book in that regard. But I guess they didn't do it The Right Way (My Way), from everything I hear. I didn't even not-back because people were saying bad things about it. The campaign itself was extremely lackluster and vague.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:40
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That Old Tree posted:I dunno, I was immediately interested in "some weird ?disease? is prompting Crossover Episodes" and I don't think it's all that hard to start building a fairly cool and useful toolbox book in that regard. It makes the whole book read like they put out a call for a bunch of different setting-chapters on the theme of "crossover with a 'contagion' theme" and then slapped them together and called it coherent by making the group names the same. Which ends up giving it the feel of a Dark Eras book (with combining 2-3 splats and making a sample location and set of cross-pollinated plot hooks), except they're all in the Today era. Which, whatever. That's already a couple books.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:49
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After reading about mage I have a question How is a game where you have no challenges fun?
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Mar 27, 2020 02:38
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Rand Brittain posted:Story. Not sure about the merit thing. If it's per story it doesn't seem very good, and especially not for vampires. 5 points of Vitae every dozen-odd sessions (maybe more, depending on what your group treats a "story" - stories tend to run really long for my online group, for instance) is a drop in the bucket.
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Mar 27, 2020 02:55
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Metapod posted:After reading about mage I have a question It's just a bit more fun for the ST, because you can look at the PCs sheets, see where they are lacking, and tailor challenges for them. As the game goes on, you can understand the personalities of the players better, and what they want for their characters, and this just gives you more advantages when challenging them.
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Mar 27, 2020 03:35
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It's also really not the case that 'a plague' is a good story in the same way for every splat. A plague can work for, I guess, most splats - though mostly in terms of a specific historical context, like Prometheans during the Black Death fleeing flaggelants or whatever. None of these are set in stone, of course, but, playing to the strengths of the splat... Mages are going to play a game about where the plague comes from and what higher symbolism it's breaking (with the Abyss); Vampires are going to play a game about dealing with the social upheaval of something entirely outside their control and probably try to exploit it; Werewolves will be expected to fix it and it will be some kind of issue with the balance of spirit and flesh - or maybe it's a natural plague and they have to deal with the spiritual fallout; Sin-Eaters deal with an influx of plague dead and the basic fact of plague that way; Prometheans deal with being blamed for the plague because being a Promethean is suffering; Changelings probably have to deal with True Fae, I'm not sure how Changelings fit with disease themes; Demons have to either figure out why the God-Machine wants a plague, or figure out how to use its weakness if the plague was unintentional. None of these precisely line up with all the others - maybe with a few of the others, but each line in general has different thematic overlap with other lines, with the exception of 'hiding from the normals' being true across all the lines.
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Mar 27, 2020 03:37
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Anyone know of any good Actual Play podcasts/youtubes of Mage: the Ascension?
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Mar 27, 2020 05:05
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So Joe, your hypotheticals really point to how the WoD games, Chronicles especially, are really loving good at having distinct themes, stories, and gameplay loops. Like of course a group of Vampires and a group of Mages are going to get up to radically distinct poo poo, even if they're dealing with some similar occult fuckery. Most of the games hone this feeling really sharply, which is actually really neat. BUT, in my opinion it's... honestly a little strange compared to how literally every other kitchen-sink-urban-fantasy setting works. It's probably an artifact of Vampire being their first game, since Vampire-only or Vampire-mostly poo poo is kind of it's own genre... but the second you start adding in werethings and occultists and frankensteins basically all pop culture works move towards an ensemble cast of one main monster type reluctantly working with the others and dealing with their own supernatural politics/bullshit as B stories. I'm not saying the World/Chronicles of Darkness should work more like this - although it sounds like the Contagion Chronicles were a mostly failed attempt to do that - I'm just saying it's a little weird that the default assumption in a setting with playable faeries and mummies and frankensteins is that every player is a werewolf. It definitely has it's advantages, and Chronicles have really leaned into those advantages, but it still frankly strikes me as an aberration among other settings/games/fiction that work with similar creatures.
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Mar 27, 2020 07:48
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I wouldn't be surprised if they talk about in the book, but one might wonder if a Throng wouldn't wonder if the Contagion just wasn't Disquiet being wacky.
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Mar 27, 2020 16:00
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Rand Brittain posted:Okay, so, first thing, what is the deal? That's the problem. This is much less similar to the big NWOD crossover setting the MES ran a few years back than the original description put me in mind of.
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Mar 27, 2020 16:42
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That’s a good point, Osmosis. Personally, I would consider it a strength - it’s one of the ways in which the game settings are more like a series of carefully constructed urban fantasy settings that live as slightly awkward neighbors to each other than a single unified monster mash setting. Which I appreciate, because the more monster-mash-y an urban fantasy series gets, the less it tends to hold together. A team of various monsters and monster hunters and so on tends to be more spectacular than thematically clear, and the same is true in the Chronicles. Of course, that’s not to say crossovers and monster mashes can’t work well, but generally they require some kind of thematic unity - a friend of mine has plans for a Changeling and Acanthoi only crossover game about going into Arcadia to fight one of the Gentry on behalf of an Archmage, and she’s clearly been thinking about how the themes involved can line up much more closely than Contagion Chronicle ever has.
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Mar 27, 2020 16:59
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Joe Slowboat posted:Of course, that’s not to say crossovers and monster mashes can’t work well, but generally they require some kind of thematic unity - a friend of mine has plans for a Changeling and Acanthoi only crossover game about going into Arcadia to fight one of the Gentry on behalf of an Archmage, and she’s clearly been thinking about how the themes involved can line up much more closely than Contagion Chronicle ever has. If you know the details I'd love to hear her take on the Arcadia/Arcadia situation, especially since an Archmage, who could have physically entered Supernal Arcadia, is involved. That's always been kind of my Chronicles of Darkness white whale.
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Mar 27, 2020 17:19
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So I'm chugging my way through Promethean, and my group is going to get ready to do the pre-session Sunday (characters at like 80% ready, we do finishing touches, build the relations between characters, and hammer out setting details, maybe do a short scene if we got time), and I love this one. Absolutely my favorite WOD/COD so far. I think part of it is the optimism - a lot of WOD stuff has this grimdarkitude that flips past 'mature' and lands on 'childish.' The central arc of "being a Promethean sucks - and we're trying to fix that" is great, and the book makes a compelling case that being a hosed up loser is valuable at an intrinsic level. What I'm saying is, the themes hold together. That said, the WOD/COD 'concepts are anti-organized' problem is at its most dire. The book constantly alludes to concepts that are deeply important - the Pilgrimage, Disquiet, Transmutation - well before they're introduced. From a literary standpoint it pays off, and, having read a few proto-scientific texts in my time, definitely conveys the way that alchemists wrote. From a "RPG rulebook stance" it is a crime. For players with basic familiarity with WOD, the concepts you need for making a character are, in order: Pilgrimage, Elpis, Torment, Milestones, Refinements, and then VERY distantly Lineage. The book instead goes into Lineage first, then Refinements (without making it clear how they relate to Pilgrimage, causing significant confusion), Elpis, Torment is chopped into multiple parts, then there is the swamp of Transmutations, then finally Pilgrimage gets really addressed on page 177. I've read less functional rulebooks, but I'm not sure I've read a rulebook where all the rules function in a pretty simple way, but the layout so thoroughly obfuscates that point.
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Mar 27, 2020 17:52
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Joe Slowboat posted:That’s a good point, Osmosis. Personally, I would consider it a strength - it’s one of the ways in which the game settings are more like a series of carefully constructed urban fantasy settings that live as slightly awkward neighbors to each other than a single unified monster mash setting. Which I appreciate, because the more monster-mash-y an urban fantasy series gets, the less it tends to hold together. A team of various monsters and monster hunters and so on tends to be more spectacular than thematically clear, and the same is true in the Chronicles. I admit that I'd backed Contagion with the idea of "Yes! I finally get material for doing multi-splat crossovers!" Except that apparently it's going to be sucky material. Oh, well. I was hoping to get something I could use to really put together a team of "Supernatural Superfriends" but apparently not so much. I'd admit I'd also like to hear more about your friend's campaign. Not only do I want to get her take on Changeling Arcadia vs. Mage Arcadia, I'd like to know how this bunch is going to "fight" the Gentry in question. Remember the "War on Terror?" There was a snide take I've taken on that of "So, we're doing battle against terror? After that can we have a War on Apathy, assuming we can be bothered?" Fighting one of the Gentry would be very much like a literal "war" on the emotional concept known as "terror." The Gentry don't seem to be real, physical beings or even spirits. They're Names and Titles. Blasting them with magic bolts isn't going to cut it.
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Mar 27, 2020 17:57
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Digital Osmosis posted:If you know the details I'd love to hear her take on the Arcadia/Arcadia situation, especially since an Archmage, who could have physically entered Supernal Arcadia, is involved. That's always been kind of my Chronicles of Darkness white whale. I am not that person, but the way I imagined it in my game will follow. The 2e books are fairly clear that this is an answer that is going to vary based on the needs of the story you're telling. So there's not a right answer. My group never found the answer, and unless we do archmage stuff (probably not), they're not going to find the answer either. Anyway, for my crazy mages who did go into Arcadia to "save" the daughter of a mage who had information the group needed. They were let in after making a bargain with the Winter Queen at the end of the season. This was useful because it gave them a time limit before the mantle transitioned to Spring. Inside, magic functioned mostly normally. I would make rolls to see if they were doing things that maintained the story, because it's Arcadia and the story is important. This replaced paradox with an Arcadian equivalent, but more risky. I'd start with a dice pool equal to the level of the spell, then add more dice for extra reaches. Then I'd subtract dice from my pool for relevance factors. Is it an obsession or goal. Does it maintain their virtue/vice. Is it integral to the story they're on (subjective of course). If the pool was reduced to 0, then I didn't roll a chance die. Once they learned that they could do crazy magic in the pursuit of their goals, they started doing some crazy rear end magic. Creating magical dragons to ride on, calling lightning, making magical disguises, things like that. Fate though was the exception. It didn't always work the way the Acanthus wanted. Things like coin flips landing on the coin edge, that sort of craziness. The theme of it was that they were making their own story, and trying to manipulate the story instead of living it wasn't going to work. Fate nudges, and probably the 4-5 dot stuff would have worked differently, but we didn't have that problem. The duality of Arcadia was treated in my head cannon as a layered situation. They were both a part of each other, but still unique places. So they weren't in Supernal Arcadia, but they still sort of were. Same as if they'd gone to Supernal Arcadia, they'd still sort of be in Faerie Arcadia. There was bleed through in places, and if they'd have found a door (hidden behind the True Fae they were thwarting), they may have been able to try to go through the road. Thankfully they didn't, because I didn't want a stubborn Acanthus thinking it would end well, but not being able to withstand the supernal wind in the tunnel (fashioned after the wind in the Astral at least mechanically).
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Mar 27, 2020 18:00
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Jhet posted:I am not that person, but the way I imagined it in my game will follow. The 2e books are fairly clear that this is an answer that is going to vary based on the needs of the story you're telling. So there's not a right answer. My group never found the answer, and unless we do archmage stuff (probably not), they're not going to find the answer either. I feel like 2e Mage actually took the very clear authorial position of 'they are not the same thing at all' in the text itself.
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Mar 27, 2020 18:07
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Mors Rattus posted:I feel like 2e Mage actually took the very clear authorial position of 'they are not the same thing at all' in the text itself. Also word of god from Dave Brookshaw on multiple occasions in this very thread. There's clearly some kind of resemblance or similarity between the Watchtowers and the Supernal Realms and some of the more prominent otherworlds in the setting, but they are, at best, Fallen instances of Supernal ideals.
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Mar 27, 2020 18:21
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Oops
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Mar 27, 2020 18:27
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