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Numero6 posted:Daniel Kibblesmith was also a founder of Clickhole which makes it even weirder. The whole thing actually sounds like a Clickhole article so that would make sense.
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Mar 21, 2020 17:38
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Snowflake and Safespace sound like fake heroes the alt-right would make up to make fun of people.
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Mar 21, 2020 17:55
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Bingo. I mean, if this turns out good I will 1) be amazed and 2) eat crow pie, quite happily. But yeah, this first look is... It's... Yeah.
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Mar 21, 2020 18:54
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Catfishenfuego posted:Snowflake and Safespace sound like fake heroes the alt-right would make up to make fun of people.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:02
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FMguru posted:They sound like easily-chumped villains from issue #2 of some ComicsGate anti-SJW comic book (that was solicited, fundraised for, but never released) I was gonna say, none of those books are getting a second issue, if they ever even got a first.
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Mar 21, 2020 19:07
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FMguru posted:They sound like easily-chumped villains from issue #2 of some ComicsGate anti-SJW comic book (that was solicited, fundraised for, but never released)
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Mar 21, 2020 20:13
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I'm thinking maybe that or an X-Statix/X-Force type thing.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:09
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Edge & Christian posted:Dumb thought but what if these new New Warriors are some sort of (original concept of) Thunderbolts thing? Yeah, it's so on the nose that I'm really expecting another shoe to drop, like with that whole "Doc Justice" thing in Runaways.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:02
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Addendum to the EVS coin scam: apparently they were to be pure silver. Actual silver content less than .01%.
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Mar 22, 2020 14:54
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us mint coins havent been pure anything since like 1960 lol
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Mar 22, 2020 17:40
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Frankly I'll be a lot angrier if there's "another shoe that drops" and these kids turn out to be evil HYDRA super-Nazis or something. As it stands, there's aspects of it I don't super appreciate, but I'll happily bite my tongue about the names being dumb if it means we actually get a loving non-binary character in mainstream comics who's handled even semi-respectfully.
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Mar 22, 2020 22:07
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site posted:us mint coins havent been pure anything since like 1960 lol *Circulating* US Mint coins haven't been pure anything since 1964. Proof coins (collector strikes of the same) have generally been made of coin silver, 90% pure. Last year (and going forward) they switched over to 'fine silver', 99.9% pure, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone just swapped out the proof coins for standard circulation-grade ones on the bet that nobody would check.
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Mar 22, 2020 23:10
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Frankly I'll be a lot angrier if there's "another shoe that drops" and these kids turn out to be evil HYDRA super-Nazis or something. As it stands, there's aspects of it I don't super appreciate, but I'll happily bite my tongue about the names being dumb if it means we actually get a loving non-binary character in mainstream comics who's handled even semi-respectfully. ...The thing though...is that Grace wasn't actually allowed to refer to Madin as non-binary in the comic  so that rather significant detail was kinda missable if you did't read between the lines. Yes, correct, a series literally starring a queer character, by a queer writer, was not allowed to confirm a character as NB.Per the link, Grace also seems...less than impressed about the new kids. 
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Mar 24, 2020 04:42
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As mentioned Loki's been established as genderfluid for years. We don't have to settle for loving Snowflake.
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Mar 24, 2020 05:34
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Loki's done some war crimes and genocides so it would be nice to have some more NBs and fluid characters but we really don't need to pretend Snowflake doesn't suck.
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Mar 24, 2020 06:33
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Lurdiak posted:Loki's done some war crimes and genocides so it would be nice to have some more NBs and fluid characters but we really don't need to pretend Snowflake doesn't suck. When'd Loki do a genocide?
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Mar 24, 2020 07:42
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Does Mystique not count for some reason either?
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Mar 24, 2020 23:29
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As great as Loki and Mystique are, you can probably understand why these characters who were hardcore villains for decades and decades don't immediately come to mind as representational figures for NB readers to identify with. (And even considering that, they do still have tons of fans anyway, Loki particularly) And to be technical, both Loki and Mystique (and also characters like Xavin...I miss Xavin  ) would probably self-identify (if they cared about such labels) as genderfluid, moreso than non-binary*. They identify as different genders depending on their situation, but they do identify as gendered almost all of the time.*A very quick search tells me that some wikis place "genderfluid" under the broad non-binary umbrella category, but...I'm almost certain that's not how people actually use the term nowadays? Far be it for me to dispute Lord Wikipedia, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. On that note, I think it'd be worthwhile to also have genderqueer characters who...well, are not always literal shapeshifters? I can see that maybe becoming a bit of a stereotype down the line. Like, it's cool that there are shapeshifter characters like Loki and Mystique and Xavin who we can establish as genderqueer in that way (and I'm actually a big believer in this wish-fulfillment aspect of speculative fiction superpowers) but not every shapeshifter would share that identity (like Hulkling), and not every trans or non-binary or genderfluid character should conveniently just so happen to have gender-changing superpowers. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 00:48
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LeJackal posted:Does Mystique not count for some reason either? Claremont's original idea for Nightcrawler's parentage not withstanding, Mystique never really presents herself as male in her downtime or personal life that I've ever seen in the comics. When Mystique takes a male form it's pretty much always as a disguise, not a representation of herself.
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Mar 25, 2020 01:19
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Xavin is a great case study in how not to write a nonbinary character, and that's even considering before Whedon run's "oh you defaulted to a girl shape you're a girl now" bullshit. She (and I'm going to use she because I'm pretty sure they never use any pronoun except whatever gender Xavin is presenting as at the moment) actually kind of sucks hard. Also yeah Mystique has never been presented as nonbinary. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 02:05
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What was wrong with Xavin pre-Whedon? Whedon's whole "the girl form is the real form now!" bullshit was bullshit, but it was bullshit specifically because of how much it contradicted Xavin's earlier "sometimes I'm a girl and sometimes I'm not and that's just how it is" characterization.
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Mar 25, 2020 02:32
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BrianWilly posted:What was wrong with Xavin pre-Whedon? Whedon's whole "the girl form is the real form now!" bullshit was bullshit, but it was bullshit specifically because of how much it contradicted Xavin's earlier "sometimes I'm a girl and sometimes I'm not and that's just how it is" characterization. - There's absolutely no attempt to make being nonbinary a part of the character's identity. It gets stated like a matter of fact that Skrulls are all genderfluid (something that has never been true before or since) which lets them make it be completely separate from the character by just handwaving it as a Weird Alien Thing. - The whole relationship is spent with Karolina convinced Xavin is actually totally a woman, and actively grossed out when Xavin takes on a male form. This is never examined or called out as hosed up. - Xavin herself is super loving boring outside of having a cool power set. - She very clearly exists to have Karolina pair off with someone and not many other reasons. You could remove her from pretty much every storyline and nothing would really change. Like, just sayin', there's a reason she got put on a spaceship and then never seen or mentioned again while the TV show version of her was basically made into an entirely different character Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Mar 25, 2020 |
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Mar 25, 2020 02:39
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I suppose. I think there has to be something said for being one of the legit first characters to explore the possibilities that a superheroic gender-changing character/species could present. Just because Skrulls were written as boring old binary male-female (and then mostly just male, let's be real, because they're Marvel comics' orcs) in the past doesn't mean it should always be that way. That scene of Xavin explaining to Molly why they're not just female still gets passed around online as one of the best scenes of that kind. Importantly, it made it very clear that being uncomfortable with someone who isn't one gender all the time is no different from being uncomfortable with someone "just" being gay or lesbian. To me, at least, that was a very eye-opening statement at the time that wasn't really being expressed anywhere else. I genuinely don't recall any non-Whedon scenes of Karolina being grossed out at male Xavin. It obviously sucks that that happened, but again, it was...Whedon. v  v If anything, we have Xavin to thank for exposing some of the worst Whedon outlooks that ever got written.
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Mar 25, 2020 03:06
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I remember back in the day when Ice Man, Beast and Angel were on The Defenders. They had a character named Cloud, who switched back and forth between male and female, and used both identities. I mean, that was pretty cool for an 83 comic, that I grabbed from some used goods store.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:54
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A lot of these characters mentioned are cool and open interesting narrative opportunities around gender but that's not really the same thing as having an openly and avowedly nonbinary character. I've been reading through the post-Zero Hour Legion of Superheroes/Legionnaires and there's a character named Lyle Norg, the Invisible Kid, who is conspicuously uninvolved with any reciprocal romance subplots. I looked him up to clarify some other little thing about his backstory and discovered that in some character handbook printed in 2004-- years after this run and its continuity ended-- he was confirmed to be gay, and in a relationship with a minor supporting character. I thought, that's cool. But I also thought how much cooler it would have been to actually see that play out in the book, to see writers and artists very talented at melodrama and romance actually try their hand at a queer romance. Representation matters, sure, but so does the quality and directness of that representation. A character directly saying to a character something like "I'm nonbinary, I use they/them pronouns" or whatever would be more interesting and probably do more for any young people reading the book than any amount of semi-canonical insinuation (like Mystique's admittedly pretty interesting nixed background as Nightcrawler's biological father) or genre-derived exercises that feel only marginally attached to their closest analogous social issues (I would not call Cloud or, say, Vamp, or DC's Dumas flag-bearers for genderfluid representation, just like I wouldn't call Star Saxon in his first stint a flagbearer for gay representation). To return to the Legion, because I've got a one-track mind, the run prior to Zero Hour was basically a gritty, downbeat timeskip in which a lot of the Legion characters were revisited as adults. Another supporting character, a woman named Shvaugn Erin, was revealed to be, for all intents and purposes, a trans woman. This came up when planet-wide war deprived her of access to the medications that allowed her to live as a woman, and she "changed back" into a man. This is, to say the least, a pretty strange interpretation of how medical transition or gender dysphoria works. If I lost access to my hormones I sure wouldn't go back to using my birth-name and wearing a tie to work. But I respect the poo poo out of the Bierbaums (and the inimitabel Colleen Doran) for not dancing around the issue and being as bare and direct as possible about who this character was and what it meant. It's far from perfect and, rereading it right now, it would not fly in 2020 but it's an honest effort and frankly a brave one. Obviously I don't want to read a hateful and ignorant story about trans people (like Airboy) or one that is vaguely sympathetic but still leering and condescending (like Ennis' Highland Laddie miniseries, or, if you catch me in a bad mood, Wanda from "A Game of You," or Lord Fanny), but I would (and this is just me-- I can certainly understand someone else reading the Shvaughn Erin stuff and saying "gently caress this") rather read an honest and earnest but slightly off story than content myself with head-canon and insinuation. (I should note that Tom & Mary Bierbaum were both longtime LoSH fans with strong opinions rooted in fan canons in the 80s-- so for example, in their run the queer relationship between two team members, Shrinking Violet and Lightning Lass, is hinted at much more strongly but still not 100% openly acknowledged or stated. Why did they get away with having Element Lad and "Sean Erin" as a couple but not Salu and Ayla? I dunno, but I'd love to find out the editorial input on these two respective storylines) The point being I would love to read a comic where Mystique talks about her relationship with gender, or where Loki explicitly refers to himself as nonbinary or genderqueer. Maybe those comics even exist. But until then I think there's still a need for more, and more open, GNC characters in comics. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 05:49
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Mid-1990s Justice League had a character called the Yazz who refused to divulge their gender or if they had a gender. The character was killed off panel at some point.
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Mar 26, 2020 16:00
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How Wonderful! posted:(I should note that Tom & Mary Bierbaum were both longtime LoSH fans with strong opinions rooted in fan canons in the 80s-- so for example, in their run the queer relationship between two team members, Shrinking Violet and Lightning Lass, is hinted at much more strongly but still not 100% openly acknowledged or stated. Why did they get away with having Element Lad and "Sean Erin" as a couple but not Salu and Ayla? I dunno, but I'd love to find out the editorial input on these two respective storylines)
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Mar 26, 2020 16:48
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Edge & Christian posted:Full disclosure, I have never been super into Legion but I do remember the Bierbaums being pretty active and up-front on early Internet platforms (Usenet, I want to say Compuserve?) back during/immediately after their run, it might be worth digging around to see if they commented on either of these topics contemporaneously. Though it's getting harder and harder to find searchable Usenet archives of anything. When DC had their AOL portal T&M were frequent chatroom guests along with the Moys, Lee Moder, Tom McGraw and Mark Waid. LOSH had scheduled chat events every week back in like, 1996?
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Mar 26, 2020 17:52
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Edge & Christian posted:Full disclosure, I have never been super into Legion but I do remember the Bierbaums being pretty active and up-front on early Internet platforms (Usenet, I want to say Compuserve?) back during/immediately after their run, it might be worth digging around to see if they commented on either of these topics contemporaneously. Though it's getting harder and harder to find searchable Usenet archives of anything. Yeah I really want to dig through their online and zine presence at some point, since Legion fan-culture from the 70s-90s seems like a neat, dense rabbit-hole.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:55
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Rhyno posted:When DC had their AOL portal T&M were frequent chatroom guests along with the Moys, Lee Moder, Tom McGraw and Mark Waid. LOSH had scheduled chat events every week back in like, 1996? How Wonderful! posted:Yeah I really want to dig through their online and zine presence at some point, since Legion fan-culture from the 70s-90s seems like a neat, dense rabbit-hole.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:03
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Edge & Christian posted:I've come across calendars for those in some Wizards/Previews catalogs and I'm nowhere near 1996 in going through those, so probably even earlier. Though I guess some of the swag I won off those chatrooms is probably 1995-1996 era, so they were still going strong then, even if I was pretty sure I'd stopped going onto AOL well before that. I think the apex of DC and AOL was right when DC vs Marvel was hitting and that's when I was active on there. It was definitely post 1995 because my family relocated and shortly after we got AOL.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:07
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Action Jacktion posted:Mid-1990s ... had a character ... The character was killed off panel at some point.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:25
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https://twitter.com/renfamous/status/1243327854663827456
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Mar 27, 2020 01:05
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Yeah, the co-creator of one of the most popular new characters created in the last decade, who was then poached by DC to write comics for one of their most popular characters who also starred in their most popular recent movie was told to stop writing new comics because of her political positions and not any other reason.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:12
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G Willow Wilson never even "crossed" these assholes, she's just a woman and a Muslim.
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Mar 27, 2020 02:20
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Cheering the collapse of the only industry I’ve ever had any success in for my entire life due to a deadly global pandemic to own the libs.
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Mar 27, 2020 02:24
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I guess Wilson will have to retreat back to her--[puts two fingers to ear]--previous career as an award-winning novelist?
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Mar 27, 2020 02:51
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Wanderer posted:I guess Wilson will have to retreat back to her--[puts two fingers to ear]--previous career as an award-winning novelist? Just like everything else that all you precious soyboys are in love with like Broadway, MLB, NFL, the Premiere League, theme parks, zoos, public parks, restaurants and bars, air travel, primary elections, gathering of ten or more people. GET WOKE, SHELTER IN PLACE.
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Mar 27, 2020 02:59
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Edge & Christian posted:LOL joke's on you SJW cuck, a lot of novels are getting pushed back delayed because of a deadly global pandemic, turns out SJWs killed the book industry too. NFL hasn't been canceled yet.
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Mar 27, 2020 03:29
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What's "Down goes G Willow" supposed to mean? She's takes over DC's Sandman in a month.
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Mar 27, 2020 03:37
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