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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

FFT posted:

This came up.

Does anyone else remember that "world map but rotated and criticized as unrealistic" image? Want to say it's just Eurasia. Maybe ten years old?

I uh

if you can't tell the whole thing is incredibly sarcastic and tongue in cheek

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stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy

That's the point, yes.

Vaguely recall that Russia is described as "wow you just got really lazy here, huh?"

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Did Ewen Cluney ever finish Dragon World?

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

LashLightning posted:

The Brigmore Witches and the Whalers are bestowed powers by Delilah and Daud, respectively. There's a handful of other characters who gain powers in a similar fashion, the torturer in the first game gets some abilities from Granny Rags for example, but not to the level that the Witches or Whalers have.

So it's totally thematic to have a group of people to have Outsider powers, it's just it's more that they'd either have two or three of the powers available each. But the bigger problem that is now apparent is that there's a perfectly good system already in place for Three-Degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon-away-from-the-Outsider style folks - Blades in the Dark.

I ran a game set after the Death of the Outsider, where it was revealed that the Outsider was created to hold the forces of the Void back and now that he's gone all kinds of people are getting the power as well as horrible things crossing over from the Void into the physical world. The party had a bunch of Void users, a Witch, and two non-powered characters and according to the after-session feedback notes, none of them felt overshadowed.

Ego Trip
Aug 28, 2012

A tenacious little mouse!


FFT posted:

This came up.

Does anyone else remember that "world map but rotated and criticized as unrealistic" image? Want to say it's just Eurasia. Maybe ten years old?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/3mybyo/terrible_map_design/?

stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy


hell yes that's the one, thank you!

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

He deleted Iberia :colbert:

stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy

And Ireland, and scooched Iceland over, Turkey's smooshed in weirdly, there are a lot of issues beyond just the rotation.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Night10194 posted:

The inexplicable but ever-growing love FFG had for Techpriests is my favorite baffling subplot of WH40KRP's development.

I suspect some of it was because techpriests have a cool as heck concept.

Not coincidentally, the action RPG Inquisitor's first major expansion was for adding tech priests as a fourth playable class. It has about as many Steam achievements as the main storyline, so I guess people really do love the Mechanicus characters.

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

mllaneza posted:

Not coincidentally, the action RPG Inquisitor's first major expansion was for adding tech priests as a fourth playable class. It has about as many Steam achievements as the main storyline, so I guess people really do love the Mechanicus characters.

Makes sense, besides Space Marines they're the Imperial faction that gets the most toys to play with, especially if we are only counting personal weapons and not stuff like vehicles

Also is Inquisitor any good, was thinking about maybe renting it from Gamefly if they have it, or maybe buy it on PSN if it goes on sale anytime soon

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






drrockso20 posted:

Makes sense, besides Space Marines they're the Imperial faction that gets the most toys to play with, especially if we are only counting personal weapons and not stuff like vehicles

Also is Inquisitor any good, was thinking about maybe renting it from Gamefly if they have it, or maybe buy it on PSN if it goes on sale anytime soon
It's a decent but shallow Diablo clone. Grab on a sale if you like but not at full price. Once you finish with the campaign and get into the endgame loop you just kinda run out of things to do.

Jarvisi
Apr 17, 2001

Green is still best.
So is it camel up or camel cup? The only thing I remember about playing that game is the loud drunk argument over its name we had

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
Apparently it's Camel Up even though the position of the C and the presence of racing flags indicates that it quite clearly should be Camel Cup.

stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy

On the subject of Inquisitor (this may be a rehash but i wasn't following the thread and just skimmed the recent pages):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWnYnXLR9rM

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Lemon-Lime posted:

Apparently it's Camel Up even though the position of the C and the presence of racing flags indicates that it quite clearly should be Camel Cup.

When they did the 2nd edition they fixed the artwork to more clearly be Camel Up

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010

CitizenKeen posted:

I can get into it later, but Wonderdraft is an order of magnitude better.

Also, it's got a new dungeon counterpart, Dungeondraft.

I would love for you to get into it if you had the chance. :)

Also yeah I am looking for someone thing which could make world/continent/country maps.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Everyone in my condo building is dying of boredom so I tricked them into letting me run a Night's Black Agent campaign/game. Hit me with all your useful cheat sheets, reference cards and chargen tools to make it easier on these first-time RPG'ers

Helical Nightmares
Apr 30, 2009
Free stuff.

quote:

Two days left to get Dust Bowl Galaxy PDF for free.

"Dust Bowl Galaxy is a space western tabletop roleplaying game of exploration, outlaws and frontier survival.

It is a rules-light low-prep game where you build your starship out of spare parts, crew it with custom made aliens, and go explore the galaxy one randomly (or not so randomly) generated sector at a time. When you blow something up, you weld the leftovers onto your ship, call them upgrades and keep on truckin’."

DriveThru link: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?discount=9e3fc60a4c

Website: https://feyhaven.com/dust-bowl-galaxy/

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant

SkySteak posted:

I would love for you to get into it if you had the chance. :)

Also yeah I am looking for someone thing which could make world/continent/country maps.

Wonderdraft gives you complete license to your work, even as a pro user.

It's got better tools. It's just a more robust toolset.

It's a client side app (installable), and it just runs smoother than trying to do it through your desktop.

You can install your own assets for free, and the asset community is fantastic.

Just off the top of my head. Inkarnate was cute, but also, since you can't make your own assets, everything just looks like Inkarnate.

Inkarnate is the Vancouver of map tools - it's fine if you want to be cheap.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




NGDBSS posted:

It's a decent but shallow Diablo clone. Grab on a sale if you like but not at full price. Once you finish with the campaign and get into the endgame loop you just kinda run out of things to do.

It's great for purging mass quantities of heretics or Dark Eldar or whatever, but after you beat the story you're basic running through procedural generated mini-campaigns until you get bored and stop. The story missions were fun, especially once you get the Imperial Knight.

"Oh no ! A whole group of Wraithlords !"
"Deploy the Knight !"
<mass purging ensues>

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant
To illustrate my point, a sampling of four images from the top of r/inkarnate in the last month.

https://imgur.com/a/CeW6MMO

And a sampling of four images from the top of r/wonderdraft in the last month.

https://imgur.com/a/DjVfwUe

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!

CitizenKeen posted:

Inkarnate is the Vancouver of map tools - it's fine if you want to be cheap.
First time I've ever seen "Vancouver" and "cheap" sharing a sentence.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Yawgmoth posted:

First time I've ever seen "Vancouver" and "cheap" sharing a sentence.

Have to assume they mean Washington state or something.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

SkySteak posted:

I would love for you to get into it if you had the chance. :)

Also yeah I am looking for someone thing which could make world/continent/country maps.

So it should be noted that there's two different kinds of those maps for RPGs, basically divided on whether they use a hex grid or not. (A hex grid map is much better if actual exploration is the point of the game, instead of just going from point A to point B; this is very common in old-school RPGs, and shows up in Tomb of Annihilation for 5e.)

CitizenKeen has made a good argument for Wonderdraft if you're not using a hex grid; if you are, the two leaders are Hex Kit and Worldographer (formerly Hexographer.) Hex Kit is much easier to use and looks much better; Worldographer has some advanced features that are useful if you're making really complicated hex maps (arbitrary icon scaling and placement, arbitrary line drawing.) I would recommend Hex Kit in general, unless you want to map out specific political boundaries or something. Hex Kit is also on deep discount as part of a coronavirus bundle: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/306709/Cone-Of-Negative-Energy-Please-Stay-Home-Bundle?manufacturers_id=10434 (get the bundle, you want the other icon sets)

Arivia fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Mar 30, 2020

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant
Vancouver is cheap to film in due to taxes.

But shows and movies in Vancouver look bland and the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQXVFZ6onfE

Kwyndig
Sep 23, 2006

Heeeeeey


It should also be noted it's Vancouver Canada.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



NGDBSS posted:

Once you finish with the campaign and get into the endgame loop you just kinda run out of things to do.

Yeah this is how games work? When you beat the game you have beaten the game. Then you get to play the next game.

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

bewilderment posted:

Yeah this is how games work? When you beat the game you have beaten the game. Then you get to play the next game.

Well no, there's a bunch of games with timesuck built around 'endgame' the diablo series is known for that sort of massive replayability. Like I don't know anyone who enjoyed d1 and d2 that just beat the story on normal then moved on to something else.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Coolness Averted posted:

Well no, there's a bunch of games with timesuck built around 'endgame' the diablo series is known for that sort of massive replayability. Like I don't know anyone who enjoyed d1 and d2 that just beat the story on normal then moved on to something else.

I did that. Same with D3. Also with Borderlands. You beat the game and then you're done. Why would I do anything else?

I played FF14 recently. I got to the end of the current story, got the armor that was the right combination of easy to get + able to do the current raids/dungeons, then I stopped. When the next patch drops for more story I'll log in and do that again and then stop again.

Why would I play the same thing endlessly repeating the exact same tasks for minimal returns? Wow I do +20 damage now, time to fight the enemies with +20 armor.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Coolness Averted posted:

Well no, there's a bunch of games with timesuck built around 'endgame' the diablo series is known for that sort of massive replayability. Like I don't know anyone who enjoyed d1 and d2 that just beat the story on normal then moved on to something else.
Yeah I've put in loving hundreds (if not a few thousand, only WoW surpassed it on my list of rabbit holes) of hours in D3 before I eventually stopped. From day -1000 of development the designers saw that people were spending lots of time fooling around with D1 and D2 endgame despite those games not having intended you to go on Baal runs or whatever. Even early Diablo clones like Torchlight or Titan Quest recognized this. It's not like there wasn't a lot of work to intentionally expand the endgame in D3 - with a bundle of missteps that they eventually fixed like gear allocation and the real-money auction house - but D3's endgame, on its own, is loving solid and packed with stuff to do. In contrast...Inquisitor's endgame is pretty shallow. There's little variety in mission types beyond a few outliers and less encouragement to branch out and try new weapons that aren't just pressing 2 with the Grav Gun or whatever. And if you want to farm for gear that's meaningfully better than crafting you end up with just Void Crusades which are very much a solved problem. These games live and die in large part on their endgame replayability and Inquisitor is just lacking on that.

Really, it's like George Mallory's quip on climbing mountains. If D3 is Everest, then Inquisitor is Saddleback Mountain in the Adirondacks - looks impressive but it's just a day hike.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
The Dark Heresy game went well: I almsot died!

Yawgmoth
Sep 10, 2003

This post is cursed!

bewilderment posted:

I did that. Same with D3. Also with Borderlands. You beat the game and then you're done. Why would I do anything else?
Because it's fun? You know, that thing people usually play games to have? There's a ton of classes and each one plays differently; part of the fun is replaying the game and seeing how the different classes play, and seeing yourself improve on the harder bosses.

Playing a game just one time and then walking away forever is loving strange.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
There's a vague, fuzzy target where you're playing a game purely for the joy of playing it, and I find it's usually more time than "do a single play-through and then never touch it again" but also far, far less time than any of the games mentioned expect you to play and string you along using psychologically manipulative extrinsic rewards.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

CitizenKeen posted:

To illustrate my point, a sampling of four images from the top of r/inkarnate in the last month.

https://imgur.com/a/CeW6MMO

And a sampling of four images from the top of r/wonderdraft in the last month.

https://imgur.com/a/DjVfwUe

So recently I've noted inkarnate actually has a lot more variety than you're putting on display here. The old type of map style is called regional, and that's what you've got on display in the gallery but it can also do full on world maps.




I've not gotten to actually work with the now 1.0 version of Inkarnate, but I'm not so sure I would sell it short just yet. However I can also say WonderDraft is the best $20 I've ever spent for mapping.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant
Absolutely fair! I may be selling Inkarnate short.

I haven't used it since I got Wonderdraft, and I just grabbed the "top in last month" from the subreddit and that's what I saw. It's entirely possible there's more in Inkarnate than I'm aware of.

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

There's a vague, fuzzy target where you're playing a game purely for the joy of playing it, and I find it's usually more time than "do a single play-through and then never touch it again" but also far, far less time than any of the games mentioned expect you to play and string you along using psychologically manipulative extrinsic rewards.

Yeah it's gonna vary from game to game and something with multiplayer will probably have a longer shelf-life. I don't try to 100% stuff like I did as a kid, and I'll even get sick of some games trying to pad out playtime with collectable hunts or other "unlock basic maneuvers because that's how games work now!" BS meanwhile games that actually do give you more nuance or 'advanced build options' or whatever are totally my jam. Hell, I actually really love exploring I just don't like when it's tacked on and forced in a bland map not worth exploring.

Yawgmoth posted:

Because it's fun? You know, that thing people usually play games to have? There's a ton of classes and each one plays differently; part of the fun is replaying the game and seeing how the different classes play, and seeing yourself improve on the harder bosses.

Playing a game just one time and then walking away forever is loving strange.
It might have to do with what sorts of games you're playing or why, like there isn't much of a reason to replay most JRPGs where a lot of the gameplay is secondary to a linear story -or stuff that's heavily based on shock and surprises that aren't there anymore, like in Time Stories or most (but not all) 'Legacy' variants of board games.

bewilderment posted:

I did that. Same with D3. Also with Borderlands. You beat the game and then you're done. Why would I do anything else?

I played FF14 recently. I got to the end of the current story, got the armor that was the right combination of easy to get + able to do the current raids/dungeons, then I stopped. When the next patch drops for more story I'll log in and do that again and then stop again.

Why would I play the same thing endlessly repeating the exact same tasks for minimal returns? Wow I do +20 damage now, time to fight the enemies with +20 armor.
The complaint about Inquisitor is the endgame is +20 damage against enemies with +20 armor. Meanwhile in Diablo as you play through the higher difficulties you can get gear that actually changes the mechanics of the game. So it stops being +20 damage, and instead switches to "What if your scrawny mage can tank now, and has a viable melee build?" or "What if your entire gimmick is all of your attacks scale off of thorns?" and every few months the developers have been releasing more items (or highlighting older sets that now play different or you might've missed). Hell, Even in d3 I don't think you were anywhere near max level when you cleared it on the first playthrough, so I don't think you even had every skill and rune unlocked.
In the same way I've beaten every boss in the Sentinels of the Multiverse card game, but it's still fun to crack it out with friends who haven't played before, or try some of the harder match ups with friends who know what they're doing.

Like it's okay if story novelty is your thing, I'm just explaining why people'll sink hours into endgame or repeating stuff beyond just manipulating their lizardbrain with "Numbers get bigger!"

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"


I'm sick of it collecting dust on my shelf and have heard it has decent enough solo play, does anyone have any thoughts on the Fallout board game? I might sit down with it tonight, throw on some Ink Spots and Andrews Sisters tunes, and roll some weird FFG dice.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant
Has anyone played either of the Soft Horizon games (Sand Dogs or The King Machine)?

Picked up the PDFs because they were recommended as Discord friendly. Thinking of getting physical books. Mechanics seem to be Apolcaypse World and Spire adjacent. The King Machine is very evocative, and both of them hint at a fun world going on in B. Murray's brain.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Did anyone hack Tenra Bansho Zero to keep the setting and use less of a clunky system?

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Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013

Welp, did our first all skype session tonight. Went really well. Even had a guy who hasn't played with us for a decade. In fact it was pretty much the same group as when I was in my 20's so the nostalgia value was high. Had six players which is something I've not had for I don't remember it's been so long, but decent internet kept the whole thing rolling.

Might have to make this a permanent thing, better attendance, longer playtime, and my journey home is ending the call.

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