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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Huh, I had no idea aios were considered bad, I always thought they were just a progression from air coolers that everybody moved onto these days. I'm still sporting a big fat heatsink+fan. What's so bad about aios. I thought they were quieter and cooler. Definitely not quieter as they have a pump inside them. Some can be extremely annoying with the buzz.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:02
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Compared to huge air coolers they ain't and they ain't. Add in more parts that can fail and they're disadvantaged unless you're moving your rig around all the time.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:04
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Huh, I had no idea aios were considered bad, I always thought they were just a progression from air coolers that everybody moved onto these days. I'm still sporting a big fat heatsink+fan. What's so bad about aios. I thought they were quieter and cooler. temps are more or less the same, and they have extra moving parts and failure modes that a hunk of metal with a $10 fan strapped to it doesnt have, like pump failures, liquid permeation on the tubes that causes them to have a limited lifespan because you cant refill most of them, etc. the upsides are they look cool, they can move the heat dissipation to more easy to access/cool areas, you can strap more big low rpm fans to them which is generally quieter than smaller higher rpm fans, they have greater thermal mass for boosty workloads, and did i mention they look cool? cause they make your build look cool through the window.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:04
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AIOs also have the disadvantage of using all aluminum radiators, so even the massive 360mm ones usually barely equal or downright perform worse than a D15. Basically if you are going to use a water cooler these days it should either be a full custom loop, or you shouldn't use it at all. I have a water cooler myself, but it is a full custom loop with a massive 420x140x40mm radiator and all the fans and the pump speeds are controlled by the coolant temperature so it is very quiet and consistent and slightly outperforms even a D15 class cooler on both temperature and noise (for about 5 times the price). It is great, I really like it and wouldn't have my system any other way, but definitely if you aren't a nerd with a nearly unlimited budget then just get a heat pipe tower and be done with it.
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Apr 2, 2020 00:28
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I feel like AIO manufacturers somehow convinced a lot of the tech youtube channels and review sites that they're better since I see them recommend often by those people. Or maybe it's that Noctua has already perfected the air cooler so it's just not an interesting space to talk about anymore.
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Apr 2, 2020 00:41
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VostokProgram posted:I feel like AIO manufacturers somehow convinced a lot of the tech youtube channels and review sites that they're better since I see them recommend often by those people. Or maybe it's that Noctua has already perfected the air cooler so it's just not an interesting space to talk about anymore. they are also fantastic for test benches compared to air coolers cause you can mount em in seconds if you are just pulling the block off, so reviewers and youtubers use em everyday.
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Apr 2, 2020 01:00
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They're also all made by the same company anyways. Asetek owns the patent for putting the pump on top of the waterblock, and has a stranglehold on the market as a result. 80% of AIOs are made by Asetek, everyone else is just dodging that patent, which leads to hilarious situations of Asetek AIOs branded one thing being benchmarked against Asetek AIOs branded a different thing.
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Apr 2, 2020 01:09
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OhFunny posted:The talk of USB4 remained me that all the front ports on my case are USB 2. Yeah my mouse needs 40gbps for real-time rgb at 1000hz
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Apr 2, 2020 02:13
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 2, 2020 02:35
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I've used the same Thermalright tower cooler since the 1st gen i7s and as long as the mounting setups don't change drastically I'm going to keep doing that until I can't. An AIO would've needed replacing years ago. I'm not convinced an AIO could be quieter as it was originally designed to for passively mounting on overclocked nehalem chips so it barely needs airflow. I think I even still have a mounting kit for my old ultra 120 extreme cooler that supports modern AMD chips around somewhere.
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Apr 2, 2020 02:55
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SwissArmyDruid posted:AMD is awesome, the average Asetek AIO is probably dead after three years anyways, Noctua has never not been awesome, it's why they can make fans the color that they cemented their branding on and people will swarm to buy them anyways. You can get them in black now. It's their Chromax series, which in any other brand would be the RGB fans, but Noctua Chromax is just not that brown and beige color.
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Apr 2, 2020 03:27
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sincx posted:AIOs have 2 distinct advantages, first is that they place significantly less weight/stress on the motherboard, and second is that the fans on the radiator can double as case intake/exhaust fans, whereas with a tower cooler you'll likely need another set of case fans. Weight & stress on the mobo is of pretty debatable importance -- modern mobos are glass fiber PCBs which are goddamn strong, and metal backplates further spread load. If I was shipping an assembled PC via fedex, yeah I'd remove the 1+ kg tower. But I'd also look skeptically at many HDD drive sleds and some PSU mounts. For all times where a 4' drop isn't a concern, heatsink weight doesn't matter. IMO the biggest advantage is that the CPU block and tubes can fit in small spaces, and a rad combines case ventilation and CPU cooling into a compact space. Over in the PC build thread people occasionally ask about ITX boxes and for some of those I've concluded that an AIO is the best way to do things. If someone I knew wanted me to build them a high-performance SFF system, AIOs would be looked at.
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Apr 2, 2020 03:28
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Klyith posted:IMO the biggest advantage is that the CPU block and tubes can fit in small spaces, and a rad combines case ventilation and CPU cooling into a compact space. Over in the PC build thread people occasionally ask about ITX boxes and for some of those I've concluded that an AIO is the best way to do things. If someone I knew wanted me to build them a high-performance SFF system, AIOs would be looked at. The tide is shifting even in the mITX world. You've got the Velka Velkase 3 which actually is 2L smaller than the Dan A4-SFX form factor running completely on air using a Noctua L9a (although the build quality is apparently terrible). On the slightly larger "Ncase M1" like form factors I've also seen some cool builds in shoebox style cases that are designed to be the exact minimum thing that can stuff in a D15 or Dark Rock Pro 4 and then duct the heat directly into an exhaust fan, like this or this. People are still doing AIO builds too of course, but AIO is not an automatic win for space efficiency. You have to have an equivalent amount of space for radiators no matter what, or else you're giving up heat efficiency, plus you also have to stuff in the tubing somewhere (and most AIOs are designed with pretty long tubing). The trick is just making sure the air cooler can get fresh air and the air is cycled quickly enough. That's not easy with minimal wasted airspace inside but it's possible. Custom loops still have a special niche because you can share a rad, I don't really think AIOs have some super advantage in terms of volume anymore. The air-cooled designs have come a long way lately. (needless to say, 7nm is amazing for this, being able to stuff 8 cores into a 95W boost/PPT envelope and come within a stone's throw of the fastest gaming hardware out there is fantastic, and it'll be really impressive once 2nd-gen Navi and Ampere are on the market as well.) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 04:22
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I suppose it's old-fashioned, but I don't trust liquid coolers. I trust big hunks of aluminum and copper. I think they look a lot cooler, too. But I don't do RGB
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Apr 2, 2020 05:13
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sincx posted:But it's certainly not an automatic recommendation, and AIOs do need to be replaced completely every half-decade or so whereas a heatpipe tower heatsink can last indefinitely with regular fan swaps. I had a computer with an AIO that worked perfectly for 8-9 years. It went into storage for a year, then I gave the computer to a friend. He was getting real high temps at first, and I suggested that maybe something was wrong with the fluid or pump in the AIO after sitting so long. He replaced the thermal paste, which had completely dried up and turned to dust, and cleaned everything. Now it's working perfectly. Even the fans are still original. 
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Apr 2, 2020 05:15
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Kilson posted:I had a computer with an AIO that worked perfectly for 8-9 years. It went into storage for a year, then I gave the computer to a friend. It all depends on the AIO and its life cycle. Thin plastic tubing with bad plastic fittings, ran hot 24/7 = more permeation and sooner pump death, which was the case with lots of early AIOs. Well designed CLCs with metal fittings mounted correctly (ie tubes on bottom for a front mount and not on the bottom of the case with the tubes up) and with "normal" loads will last a long time. EVGA has a 5 year warranty, and NZXT a 6 year on the X and Z series Krakens (both Asetek). Honestly the pump/liquid would probably outlast the socket compatability and maybe even the fans they come with for some of the nicer AIOs. Cygni fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 05:30
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Cygni posted:It all depends on the AIO and its life cycle. Thin plastic tubing with bad plastic fittings, ran hot 24/7 = more permeation and sooner pump death, which was the case with lots of early AIOs. Well designed CLCs with metal fittings mounted correctly (ie tubes on bottom for a front mount and not on the bottom of the case with the tubes up) and with "normal" loads will last a long time. The one I had was Corsair, and it was definitely run hot (well, CPU temps were always low, but it was a pretty big CPU running at full capacity) almost constantly for several years.
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Apr 2, 2020 06:50
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I went with an AIO this time because the case I wanted, the O11 Air, didn't fit high end air coolers. If the case didn't have a window I would've still bought it.
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Apr 2, 2020 09:37
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Cygni posted:would probably outlast the socket compatability Noctua will send you new mounting hardware for free. Just received an am4 kit
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Apr 2, 2020 11:10
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FuturePastNow posted:I suppose it's old-fashioned, but I don't trust liquid coolers. I trust big hunks of aluminum and copper. I think they look a lot cooler, too. But I don't do RGB I leave my PC on 24/7 and often leave it on when I go places. A big hunk of aluminum and copper is one less thing to worry about going wrong while I'm asleep or away from home.
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Apr 2, 2020 11:39
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So....don't buy cheap rear end AIOs? Got it. Modern CPUs will save themselves if they truly have a thermal runaway. Ridiculous greybeardism in here.
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Apr 2, 2020 13:42
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Malcolm XML posted:Yeah my mouse needs 40gbps for real-time rgb at 1000hz What type of psycho plugs their mouse into the case and not the motherboard?
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Apr 2, 2020 13:48
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OhFunny posted:What type of psycho plugs their mouse into the case and not the motherboard? I plug mine into my monitor
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Apr 2, 2020 13:50
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I am interested in the Ice Giant cooler. I want to see if their production version does as well as the prototype that youtubers got to review several months ago.
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Apr 2, 2020 14:40
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Cygni posted:It all depends on the AIO and its life cycle. Crunchy Black posted:So....don't buy cheap rear end AIOs? It's not about cheapness as much as material choices. The AIOs that are good for a decade without refill have teflon tubing which is excellent against permeation, but is less physically durable. You can't kink it or flex too hard, because it'll crack. Also your average AIO still cools well enough even if they have a moderate amount of air in the system. It just makes the pump a lot louder. Crunchy Black posted:Modern CPUs will save themselves if they truly have a thermal runaway. Ridiculous greybeardism in here. It's about a real evaluation of benefits and drawbacks. An AIO just doesn't have many benefits -- the supposed advantage in cooling performance is extremely overrated -- and it does have negatives for long-term use. Pumps die, water evaporates. Heatpipes last forever. (And if the rule is don't buy cheapass AIOs, you're spending a lot more money than even the most expensive noctua.) Klyith fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 15:52
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Crunchy Black posted:Modern CPUs will save themselves if they truly have a thermal runaway. Ridiculous greybeardism in here. a couple years ago I needed to flash a Z87 board so it would support my 4690K so I bought a Pentium G3420T off ebay. I was too lazy to install the cooler and then clean off the chip so I just flashed it with no cooler. I then swapped in the 4690K and returned the G3420T to the ebay seller. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. (in hindsight this probably wasn't the best idea for my hardware... the chip would have been fine but if it went into some 100 MHz limp-along mode and couldn't keep up with the flasher then I could have bricked the board. but I didn't.)
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Apr 2, 2020 16:30
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Now I want someone to do throttling tests with babyhead coolers. Turn off the fan(s) so it's just the heatsink. Or the heatsink + case airflow. How long until it throttles how much?
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Apr 2, 2020 17:04
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OhFunny posted:The talk of USB4 remained me that all the front ports on my case are USB 2. Check if you're using actual USB3 stuff or USB3-as-marketing before you consider USB2 a negative on things you already own.
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Apr 2, 2020 18:08
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orcane posted:Now I want someone to do throttling tests with babyhead coolers. Turn off the fan(s) so it's just the heatsink. Or the heatsink + case airflow. How long until it throttles how much? They make passive coolers, you could look up benchmarks for one of those. Iirc they're pretty limited in what they can cool.
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Apr 2, 2020 18:15
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ItBreathes posted:They make passive coolers, you could look up benchmarks for one of those. Iirc they're pretty limited in what they can cool. 
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Apr 2, 2020 18:16
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Since there is a lot of heatsink chat rn I have a noctua nh-d15s with one fan, did the kit originally include the wire brackets for a 2nd fan and if I was an idiot and threw out the box is there an easy way to get more? Been thinking about getting a second 4 pin 140mm fan on my 8700K.
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Apr 2, 2020 18:17
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Khorne posted:Most peripherals are still USB2 and gain no benefit from USB3. At least the ones I have. A thing I just recently learned is that bluetooth dongles don't like being plugged into usb3, due to radio interference. it happens even though the dongles themselves are always usb2. I moved mine to the USB2 hub built into my monitor, now my BT headphones work perfectly in the kitchen where before they'd get dead spots. e: priznat posted:Since there is a lot of heatsink chat rn I have a noctua nh-d15s with one fan, did the kit originally include the wire brackets for a 2nd fan and if I was an idiot and threw out the box is there an easy way to get more? Been thinking about getting a second 4 pin 140mm fan on my 8700K. yeah there were more wire clips in the box. try emailing noctua, it looks like they'll send you more for free. noctua are nice like that. Klyith fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Apr 2, 2020 |
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Apr 2, 2020 18:24
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orcane posted:Nah I want to specifically see what happens if you turn off the fan of eg. a D15 it's probably not particularly great because the fin spacing is close, which is optimal when you have a fan directly on them pushing air through them but not when you are relying on convection or natural air currents inside the case. passive heatsinks have much wider fin spacing to let the air move around. it's basically the same thing as static pressure fans vs airflow fans, but for the cooling side of things. the heatsink you design for high static pressure is different than one you design for high volume. priznat posted:Since there is a lot of heatsink chat rn I have a noctua nh-d15s with one fan, did the kit originally include the wire brackets for a 2nd fan and if I was an idiot and threw out the box is there an easy way to get more? Been thinking about getting a second 4 pin 140mm fan on my 8700K. yeah it did, I put a second fan on mine. But, just email noctua and they will probably send you spares. Noctua has A+ customer service.
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Apr 2, 2020 18:29
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orcane posted:Nah I want to specifically see what happens if you turn off the fan of eg. a D15 a lot of youtubers have done videos on it if you are curious. you aint gonna be overclocking without BSODs, but a 65w TDP CPU is fine if youve got even a little airflow. if you have NO airflow, especially if the top of the case is sealed, you wont get much.
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Apr 2, 2020 18:35
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So with the 4000 series AMD has now completed the trifecta of beating Intel yes? Server, Desktop, and now Mobile offerings are all pretty much universally better with AMD in just about every category that I can think of. - Energy consumption - Cost - Gaming performance (save for the 99%tile) - Cooling - Price Is there any good reason to buy Intel for anything now?
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Apr 2, 2020 18:53
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I'd imagine there is still some "no one ever got fired for buying intel" sentiment in big business
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Apr 2, 2020 18:56
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Intel is still significantly superior for gaming, but nowhere near enough to justify the price difference.
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Apr 2, 2020 19:01
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Big issue right now is the Super GPU tweaks are going to be exclusive to intel for the time-being. They said that they are working on AMD compatibility, but it's not ready yet. I have a feeling by the time it is, we're going to be talking about 3xxx series GPUs. Granted, the super stuff isn't a huge boost, but it does take some wind out of gaming sails for AMD stuff right now as a more powerful GPU is going to help more than more powerful CPU in most cases.
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Apr 2, 2020 19:45
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Besides gaming/photoshop/things that use QuickSync, Intel still has an arguable lead in the thin and light/ultrabook world with Ice Lake, which is the primary category in laptops these days due to them being the platform that Dell/HP sell to businesses en mass. AMD doesnt really have anything to offer in the Y-series TDP zone, and their 15w U-series parts are still mostly MIA despite being announced 3 months ago. Thats probably because they are focusing what 7nm production they can get on other markets with better profit margins. Laptops have thin margins for suppliers but huge volume, which is kinda the opposite of what AMD needs right now. 4700U might be competitive with Ice Lake though, but they have yet to really... exist yet. The H series parts beat them to market, even with a multi-month head start.
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Apr 2, 2020 20:07
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priznat posted:Since there is a lot of heatsink chat rn I have a noctua nh-d15s with one fan, did the kit originally include the wire brackets for a 2nd fan and if I was an idiot and threw out the box is there an easy way to get more? Been thinking about getting a second 4 pin 140mm fan on my 8700K. O/T but I have that CPU/Heatsink/Fan combination and found that the added second fan only lowered temperatures by 1-2 Celsius under full load. It wasn’t worth it and I ended up removing the second fan again. YMMV, I imagine the second fan would be useful for a larger CPU like the Threadripper.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:50
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