|
Tescos wouldn't let me browse the pants today. Yet I've seen elsewhere it said that if a store is allowed to open then it's allowed to sell whatever it normally stocks... I should have been allowed to buy pants.
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
Clearly that's a government mandate that pants are non essential from now on.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:23
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ChickenCaoimh/status/1245364440226201605
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:26
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:Tescos wouldn't let me browse the pants today. Yet I've seen elsewhere it said that if a store is allowed to open then it's allowed to sell whatever it normally stocks... Pants are non essential citizen, only trousers are allowed to be purchased.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:29
|
|
|
Everyone just flop around nekkid
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:33
|
|
|
Azza Bamboo posted:I don't know anyone who trusts China's numbers. That's mostly because everyone in the UK is an arrogant racist who can't deal with the fact that the backwards orientals have actually effectively contained an epidemic better than neoliberalism could dream of, OP I'm sure their figures aren't perfect but they're no worse than ours, and there's no reason to believe that they don't have it under control by now. You don't go to the trouble of sealing off a huge city and building hospitals in days only to open it and close them before you're ready to, while also sending supplies and experienced healthcare professionals abroad to assist other countries.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:41
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:That's mostly because everyone in the UK is an arrogant racist who can't deal with the fact that the backwards orientals have actually effectively contained an epidemic better than neoliberalism could dream of, OP "It's totally ok that the genocidal authoritarian racist regime lied about the numbers because you see we're not doing so good, mostly because they lied. Wait what am I saying doo doo pee pee."
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:45
|
|
|
Wait why is China fiddling its numbers the reason boris johnson's party hosed the NHS over the course of a decade and the country by not understanding how exponential growth works?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:49
|
|
|
Nurge posted:"It's totally ok that the genocidal authoritarian racist regime lied about the numbers because you see we're not doing so good, mostly because they lied. Wait what am I saying doo doo pee pee."
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 02:49
|
|
|
The point is people are using China's success as a criticism of western capitalism in the same thread that previously wanted to remind everyone that China runs state capitalism. It's not the utopian socialist pipe dream the people here hold dear. Coming at a certain angle it looks like people clutching at straws to criticise capitalism and happening to grab the straw labelled state capitalism. If we're having a discussion about whether state capitalism works, however, then that'd be dandy. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 03:01
|
|
|
You can still do both. The china/other countries comparison is basically an ideal example of something where the big and horrible state is actually very useful, and the complete collapse of anything resembling competence in wstern states is itself a kind of crisis. State capitalism might be poo poo but laissez faire capitalism is looking like it might be just fundamentally incapable of functioning at this point, as it's on course to produce eye watering levels of unemployment, massive economic collapse, and a giant pile of bodies in the process, and Hungary is illustrating that it is also fairly prone to collapsing into just actual fascism at the drop of a hat. But hey, it produces iphones. I mean China produces iphones but we invented them! Or rather we created the culture that drives demand for them which is definitely a good thing. #worthit OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Apr 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 03:06
|
|
|
Nurge posted:"It's totally ok that the genocidal authoritarian racist regime lied about the numbers because you see we're not doing so good, mostly because they lied. Wait what am I saying doo doo pee pee." lol yeah, we would definitely have taken it seriously if they'd just said in December there was a horrible new respiratory virus going round, because the moment that came out in January we leapt into action oh well we would definitely have started taking it seriously if they'd done something serious like shut down their economy and forcibly quarantine millions of people oh at least we would have done something straightaway if it had got really awful somewhere you could trust the numbers, maybe a rich, white country in our immediate neighbourhood, that at least would have given us some warning it was about to get really bad here too oh...... the government didn't act when it had plenty of warning, giving it a few weeks extra to ignore SARS mk2 would have made no difference because they didn't do anything even when it was clear it wasn't some exotic flu that's going to fizzle out in Asia. I'm not sure what numbers the Chinese are supposed to have lied about (maybe the millions of dead people who cancelled their phone contracts?), but according to the figures they put out it killed plenty of people and their mortality rate was very bad so even if they have been downplaying it somehow, then we should still have acted sooner. the Chinese government is bad, the numbers are probably slightly wrong (as all the other countries are), but our government's lack of action is entirely on them. Pretending that it's actually the fault of the deceitful Chinese is both absolving them of that responsibility and insulting everyone's intelligence because it's plainly the opposite of what actually happened.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 03:09
|
|
|
Nurge posted:"It's totally ok that the genocidal authoritarian racist regime lied about the numbers because you see we're not doing so good, mostly because they lied. Wait what am I saying doo doo pee pee." lol shut the gently caress up idiot
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 03:25
|
|
|
I'll use China as evidence that a higher level of state control over infrastructure and economic organisation is beneficial and helped them fight the virus better than we will, and I might even nudge the argument along to a planned economy one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 03:28
|
|
|
So if this ever comes to an end and if life returns to some semblence of normality (I'm sceptical but whatever) I'm interested in keeping the momentum going by unionising my workplace but unsure how to go about it. My background: supervisor in a hotel, above minimum wage but not by much, was a restaurant manager but took this job after redundancy because it's piss easy, within walking distance from home and I've worked for the employer before. Less than 2 years employment currently, if that's relevent, but over 5 in the past. Paid hourly, no written contract but I consider myself on an "assumed contract" and not a zero hours one, and loudly tell my colleagues they are too, if they even listen to me. Workplace background: Scotland, approx 30 full-time staff, that again in part-time (mostly teenagers/students). Hotel itself is in a rural constituency which has switched between Tories and SNP on a regular basis; majority of workforce (probably 75%) live in a larger town nearby which was heavily Labour but is now an SNP safe seat (that's every medium to large town in Scotland then). Very casual workplace, everyone on first name terms etc. On the political engagement spectrum most of my colleagues are somewhere between, "voting is pointless" and "Death to Tories because my dad said so but I'm not really sure why". I don't think I'm going to get much interest from (most of) them from an ideological standpoint; I think pushing the fact that we need to stand in solidarity with care workers, shop workers, the NHS, other essential staff etc might get some of them thinking, and of course they're going to be asking, "how much is this going to cost me?". So here are my questions, hopefully the UKMT hivemind has some answers: 1) In my younger years I was told that unless it's a "closed shop" it's basically pointless - how true is this? 2) Would it still be a "closed shop" if all the full time staff were unionised but the part timers weren't? As a sub-question, can a part-time member of staff who doesn't get minimum wage due to their age join the union at a reduced rate; or could they be bound by the "rules" of a unionised workplace without actually formally joining the union? 3) I'm looking at Unite specifically and they have a lot of member benefits (car insurance discounts, free airport parking and very interestingly they appear to pay for NHS dental services up to £500); how many hoops are there to jump through to get these benefits? Are they worth it? 4) Is it possible to form an unofficial "staff union", i.e. we basically just make our own rather than joining one of the big ones, and if we do this are we covered under the laws that say we can't be sacked for belonging to a union, or does that only apply to registered ones? 5) Is there anything I can say to my colleagues to convince them this is a good idea? My (tentative) facebook chats have revealed that the majority have no idea what a trade union actually is... which may actually be something of a blessing in disguise (but is obviously loving disgraceful that nobody has told them) My employer isn't what I'd call a bad one and I'm more interested in unionising for ideological reasons; the NHS/care workers/etc are never going to go on strike for obvious reasons and I believe it's up to those of us in the tier below the "essential workers" category to be more politically active on their behalf, as well as our own. Anyway I'm a bit pissed and I'm going to bed now, any suggestions appreciated
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 03:53
|
|
|
duckmaster posted:So if this ever comes to an end and if life returns to some semblence of normality (I'm sceptical but whatever) I'm interested in keeping the momentum going by unionising my workplace but unsure how to go about it. Can't speak for much of the technical union stuff but this quote:Paid hourly, no written contract but I consider myself on an "assumed contract" Also, on 4) there is of course nothing stopping you doing this if you have the power and numbers to constitute a threat, but that would make it impossible to do strikes etc strictly legally. This may or may not matter. But iirc from my partner (who used to be a unite rep), you can force an employer to recognise your union if a certain percentage of the workplace joins, though I believe the required number is quite high. If you have a good employer they might see the writing on the wall and voluntarily recognise you below this, but I would never count on the goodwill of a capitalist. If you're really wanting to go down the recognised legal route you're probably best contacting one of the bigger unions and asking how you would go about affiliating and and keeping everything above board, but afaik it's a lot of hoop jumping and paperwork and bureaucracy and these larger organisations are so professionalised and embedded they're not always as great as you'd imagine. They'd certainly back up employees in cases of unfair dismissal etc, but don't count on them for any genuinely radical action. If you'd prefer to go the unrecognised, slightly legally grey but more militant route, contact the IWW. On 5), I'd focus on the direct material benefits it would open for them (job security, legal support in cases of unfair dismissal/mistreatment, etc). Definitely stay away from the grand ideological arguments unless they're already sympathetic or into political theory/philosophy and aren't going to immediately roll their eyes when you say 'means of production'. The concept of surplus value can be a good in for the more abstract stuff, so long as you can explain it succinctly and clearly, as it's very easy to relate to most individual jobs, but you have to be able to describe it without making it sound capital P Political, even though it obviously is. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Apr 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 04:27
|
|
|
I must be the most naive chump in the world because I assumed the talk of China hiding their rona numbers was partly saying "China is mistreating its people" and partly saying "We can't be sure that China's methods would be effective here, because we can't even be sure they've been effective there." Of course it was really about racism 
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 05:34
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:Can't speak for much of the technical union stuff but this A colleague insisted on a written contract the last time I worked for my current employer and they, along with every single other member of staff, was presented with a zero hours contract. Unfortunately my employer had told me to print them all off meaning I got to read it first, and I told everyone not to bother signing it. And nobody did. Nobody lost their jobs. I’m under the impression - but I am happy to be educated - that if you’re not given a contract after 12 weeks then it’s implied that you should be getting an average of those previous 12 weeks of hours, plus all your statutory employment rights. The other issue with zero hour contracts is that people, particularly middle managers, have absolutely no idea what they are and assume that if you’re not given a contact then you’re on a zero hours one (and again, I’m under the impression that that is false). And beyond that they have to understanding that a person on a zero hours contract has the right to withhold their labour as they themselves are contractually bound to give only zero hours of work per week; in other words, you can just not turn up to a shift if you so choose to (I’m aware there will be repercussions to that which make it unrealistic most of the time). Basically what I’m saying here is that my choice - and the choice for the majority of people in the hospitality industry, or at least those who even have this choice in the first place - is a choice between an unwritten implied contract and a written zero hours one. Without unionising, insistence will result in the second. Your post was very helpful though and has given me a lot to think about
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 06:04
|
|
|
I'm checking back into this thread after a period of absence following [that which must not be spoken of]. I also start redeployment today. So... that'll be fun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 06:10
|
|
|
Nurge posted:"It's totally ok that the genocidal authoritarian racist regime lied about the numbers because you see we're not doing so good, mostly because they lied. Wait what am I saying doo doo pee pee." China has contained it well. I can understand why gammons whose worldview is that the sly chinaman can never be trusted would refuse to admit that to avoid cognitive dissonance, but I’m a bit surprised that anyone in the UK Marxism Thread would have trouble with the idea that a strong authoritarian government run by technocrats is capable of effective action. Like, the exact same central and provincial level control mechanisms and community level enforcement systems that make it possible to herd Muslims into Lao Gai camps also make it possible to enforce the lockdown of a major city and social distancing rules. It’s not the only way to get to containment but it is an effective way.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 06:44
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:That's mostly because everyone in the UK is an arrogant racist who can't deal with the fact that the backwards orientals have actually effectively contained an epidemic better than neoliberalism could dream of, OP I posted in the GBS thread that it was funny to see the thread moving from poking fun at other countries for their responses to indignantly claiming that the US was only looking bad right now because everyone else was fiddling their numbers and got some very butthurt replies lol.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 07:00
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Wonder what brought this on? Google to stop supporting climate change denial companies claiming CV made them rethink. My AV has flagged this as suspicious. It doesn't usually do that so I wouldn't click.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 07:17
|
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:That's mostly because everyone in the UK is an arrogant racist who can't deal with the fact that the backwards orientals have actually effectively contained an epidemic better than neoliberalism could dream of, OP Or that the Chinese state have a long history lying through their teeth about anything and everything? I actually think the Chinese Government are probably giving accurate (or at least close to) figures but I totally understand people being sceptical of them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 07:43
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:Or that the Chinese state have a long history lying through their teeth about anything and everything? edit: reading comprehension. sorry, it's late here HolHorsejob fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Apr 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:06
|
|
|
Nurge posted:"It's totally ok that the genocidal authoritarian racist regime lied about the numbers because you see we're not doing so good, mostly because they lied. Wait what am I saying doo doo pee pee." This poo poo didn't work in the coronathread that's positively overflowing with americans who hate china, why did you think it would work in here?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:08
|
|
|
HolHorsejob posted:Ah right, so what's actually happening in China is the completely uncontrolled spread of coronavirus, much like what's happening in the US and UK. What? Did you not even read where I said I believe their numbers?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:10
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:I'll use China as evidence that a higher level of state control over infrastructure and economic organisation is beneficial and helped them fight the virus better than we will, and I might even nudge the argument along to a planned economy one. But also authoritarianism and a police state helped, which are not things I usually see UKMT advocating.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:30
|
|
|
Coohoolin posted:i'm pretty sure being furloughed at one job is not impacted at all by you taking on another job if you wanted to. My boss specifically wrote in the letter informing me of my furlough that the conditions of the furlough meant I wasn't allowed to take on another job. I'll have to check my original contract, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't allow for other employment. I will have a chat to him anyway and see what he says.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:34
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/michaeljswalker/status/1245488347155398657?s=11 So, there's always a lot of talk about how Kuenssberg and Peston are useful idiots: jumped-up gossip journalists continually duped by the messages drip-fed to them by their politician contacts. But is that really the case? I'm more cynical. They most know what they're doing, know what their role is. There's a lot more conscious thought going on than them just being unwilling stooges of the establishment. They know precisely that they have the opposite opinion than a few weeks ago, that their job is to sell the government's actions to the public. Their 'cogs were turning' all along. e: Dan Hodges, meanwhile, very much is a useful idiot: https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1245472822857740289
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:47
|
|
|
China only started reporting asymptomatic positives yesterday so it's 100% accurate to say Chinas case numbers are lower than in reality. Saying they're hiding millions of fatalities or whatever is paranoid racism though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:58
|
|
|
Answers Me posted:https://twitter.com/michaeljswalker/status/1245488347155398657?s=11 This sentence from Laura K is an odd one: In time, there may be questions about whether the country can really afford to support new legions of workers through hard times for more than a short emergency period. I mean the options are a) support them b) let them starve and essentially re-enact parts of the Great Depression or c) issue everyone with a government mandated job like you're a Soviet state? Although I guess people losing their jobs when companies shut down are still going to be seen as workshy shirkers by Tories, aren't they? So I assume this will be slowly setting up telling people that if they don't "volunteer" for farming jobs that there aren't migrant workers to do, no benefits for you? Danger - Octopus! fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Apr 2, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:58
|
|
|
Remember: if you're not allowed to advertise, product place, product place, product place. Note to editors: Currently this is a potential vaccine candidate, not a vaccine or a cure, given this is early stages of the development process. Also check the date etc etc but they've put their full 'Forward looking statements' clause on it. Answers Me posted:e: Dan Hodges, meanwhile, very much is a useful idiot:
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 08:59
|
|
|
The replies to that Hodges tweet lead me to this which I think might be Hodges greatest ever work https://twitter.com/samisam147/status/1241844687960506368
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:06
|
|
|
Hungary just made being trans illegal.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:07
|
|
|
dispatch_async posted:The replies to that Hodges tweet lead me to this which I think might be Hodges greatest ever work The rest of that conversation is magnificent. I don't know how to explain what Hodges' thinking is, apart from... not understanding the concept of time...?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:10
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/NeworpK/status/1241894320531279872?s=20
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:10
|
|
|
dispatch_async posted:The replies to that Hodges tweet lead me to this which I think might be Hodges greatest ever work Flipswitch posted:Hungary just made being trans illegal. Cool so they're burning the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft because they don't know what words mean again. Will the Guardian speak out 
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:13
|
|
|
Jose posted:Idc if it's ghoulish I think the UK would be better of if he got it and maybe died. or any other high profile journo. They might do their loving jobs Nah they'd just use it as an excuse to claim that journalism is the hardest most dangerous job there is and we should appreciate them more
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:13
|
|
|
Danger - Octopus! posted:This sentence from Laura K is an odd one: My guess it's d) end social distancing and lockdowns, sacrifice the old and weak to the economy
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
Has it been announced they're going to staff the new hospitals?
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2020 09:13
|
|