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None of the faith names set in stone just yet, but the team determined asatru to be the least nazi term that still retained some flavor; even the most neutral descriptors of old Norse religion are tainted in some way because that's what nazis do. Not sure where Oriental came from though, that will be rectified before release.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:51
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That's pretty reasonable Also, diplomacy is somehow the better intrigue stat than intrigue in CK2 which is the weirdest poo poo on the planet
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Apr 1, 2020 19:59
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LordMune posted:None of the faith names set in stone just yet, but the team determined asatru to be the least nazi term that still retained some flavor; even the most neutral descriptors of old Norse religion are tainted in some way because that's what nazis do. lmao thanks man i deeply appreciated this post. what was wrong with Germanic or Norse?
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Apr 1, 2020 20:14
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germanic at least isn't actually accurate and confused the absolute gently caress out of a lot of people when they settled on it for CK2. it's a neutral term in that no terrible people have attempted to co-opt it yet, but nobody except current CK2 players thinks of odin and thor when they hear 'germanic'. paradox is actually in a bit of an odd situation since, sure, CK2 players are going to be excited for this, but there's flatly no way a new release grand strategy game is going to have either the breadth or depth of a game that's been in development for almost a decade now. as a result, a lot of us will probably still be playing CK2 until CK3 is a couple years old at least. they'll have to build up the level that us current players are going to be fully satisfied, like they have with the other smash success grand strategy games they've had. if they don't pull in people to go along with that journey, they'll just abandon it like the other grand strategy IPs they have largely abandoned (like Vicky 2). so they need to pull in people beyond the current CK2 crowd. and if that's the case, you ideally want to make onboarding as easy as possible and not bombard people with a shitton of words and stuff they don't know or recognize. unfortunately when it comes to that pantheon, there's a lot of very terrible modern people that you would rather not get too close to by using the same words as them, so naming gets really complicated. i feel like there's a lot to be said for not conceding these bits of language to terrible people just because they very recently started saying it over and over without even understanding what they're saying. it's distinctly different from the 'oriental' affair because that's very specifically a word that american boomers used to be hella racist for literal decades and it's a very well known part of their lovely culture. a lot of the other words referring to the germanic pantheon have only been used by a couple lovely people for at most a single year and depending on the word it's rarely even off a specific social media platform, let alone multiple. but paradox, quite wisely, tries to make games and not vehicles for the front line of the twitter culture war. so i don't know that it's super fair to expect them to make those sorts of stands. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 21:58
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Indo-European Religion (Germanic Ver.)
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Apr 1, 2020 22:12
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Coolguye posted:so they need to pull in people beyond the current CK2 crowd. and if that's the case, you ideally want to make onboarding as easy as possible and not bombard people with a shitton of words and stuff they don't know or recognize. I notice they seem to have discarded a lot of the more abstruse terminology, like "demesne" and "agnatic" and "gavelkind" and so on. Understandable, though it's kind of a shame.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:21
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megane posted:I notice they seem to have discarded a lot of the more abstruse terminology, like "demesne" and "agnatic" and "gavelkind" and so on. Understandable, though it's kind of a shame. I hope there's an option for ~localized terminology~ because I want that experience of starring at my character and having to parse what the gently caress they are. I love that flavor even if it's more confusing. I still say Asatru is a decent term, even if all Norse religion revivalists have to struggle against the Nazi connection. It's a shame we have no period term for their faith.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:29
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i dunno man i tbought the same thing about CK2 and that came out of the gate really strong.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:30
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a fatguy baldspot posted:i dunno man i tbought the same thing about CK2 and that came out of the gate really strong. Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if I switch over fully to CK3 once it's released. The faction system already looks to be better than that of it's predecessor, the religious side looks at least as robust as in CK2, the cadet branches are a very welcome addition, etc.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:46
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Drop the Nazi terminology ya loving weirdos. Then again, after how bare bones IR was on release despite making these sort of same claims when it came to culture and religion I’m still not finding a reason to buy the third game.
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Apr 1, 2020 22:58
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Torrannor posted:Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if I switch over fully to CK3 once it's released. The faction system already looks to be better than that of it's predecessor, the religious side looks at least as robust as in CK2, the cadet branches are a very welcome addition, etc. I'm sure I will too. CK2 was (and is) a ton of fun, but there are so many weird little things broken with it. I'm hoping CK3 fixes enough of it that I won't mind the missing things too much. I'm really going to miss Sunset Invasion though.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:04
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Sunset Invasion should be hard-coded into CK3.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:16
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Still holding out for invasions from the south and north. Scandinavia will tremble before the hordes of Jan Mayen.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:31
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The Sea People have returned!
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Apr 1, 2020 23:57
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binge crotching posted:I'm sure I will too. CK2 was (and is) a ton of fun, but there are so many weird little things broken with it. I'm hoping CK3 fixes enough of it that I won't mind the missing things too much. extremely silly of you to think there won’t be a new amount of so many weird little things on release
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Apr 2, 2020 00:18
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Similar boat, so when I play Feudal I try to focus more on my holdings - fewer counties, but stacked with well developed castles that I personally hold. That and retinues. That's how I've played as well. My military power is whatever levies I have directly plus my retinue. The vassals only come out when a crusade or a defensive war happens. Or if it's really close. I can take the opinion hit for a few months, but I generally don't need them anyway so why worry?
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Apr 2, 2020 08:14
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Coolguye posted:germanic at least isn't actually accurate and confused the absolute gently caress out of a lot of people when they settled on it for CK2. it's a neutral term in that no terrible people have attempted to co-opt it yet, but nobody except current CK2 players thinks of odin and thor when they hear 'germanic'. That doesn't mean it's not accurate, at least depending on time period. Before anglo-saxons are a thing, the faith spreads from Germany to Scandinavia, maturing in both places during the migration period. Of course, it's dumb in the first place to stick one moniker on a religion that was practiced for nearly a thousand years in different places, and had different gods and entities propitiated in each place, but I kinda get why they want to separate it from slavic and uukkon in mechanical terms.
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Apr 2, 2020 10:48
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Using your own troops to fight costs you money and makes you susceptible to coalitions since it weakens your troop total against your vassals'. There's no reason not to use your vassals' levies as meatshields. If you're worried about the opinion hit, just don't raise levies from vassals with low opinion.
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Apr 2, 2020 12:14
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Harald the Norwegian pretender Monarch Journey start is surprisingly easy. I'd think it's supposed to be hard, you even have an achievement (as in game achievement, not a Monarch Journey challenge) for winning. You start with 10 000 men already in England and you can bring ~4000 more from Norway. William has something like 8000 men so unless you're extremely unlucky you beat him and then the king of England easily. Also Kievan Rus king is my bro and I can call him. And Venecian doge is single while you have 2 single daughters. Other challenges look like something that will eventually happen to you anyway so I guess this Monarch Challenge is just there to make people appreciate this start.
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Apr 2, 2020 15:37
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binge crotching posted:I'm really going to miss Sunset Invasion though. October 31st, 2012 is a day I will always remember. It was the day I became cynical, bitter, and distraught. You may call it an overreaction for me to feel this way simply because of the business practices of a single video game company, but let me explain what all of this means to me. My life was thrown off balance and I never regained my footing after that day, because I lost my ability to respect. An essential part of being human is to feel respect for those who may or may not be deserving of it. But it is equally human to feel painful disillusionment when someone or something you respected turns out to be much less than you thought. But the level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human. Paradox Interactive was a company I respected, and their employees were people I looked up to. Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Victoria, and Hearts of Iron were all quality game series that combined historical accuracy with sandbox game worlds. These games may have been cartoony and humorous at times, but deep down they were always realistic and crafted with a level of detail and skill that won appreciation from gamers all across the internet. CK2 was their newest release, and the internet was in unanimous agreement that it was of unparallelled quality. Following it's long awaited release, Paradox began releasing quality DLC that raised the bar ever higher for Grand Strategy Games. Then Sunset Invasion was announced. This was not just an announcement of DLC, it was announcement of Paradox Interactive's suicide. It was an expansion intended to completely disregard any historical accuracy, and instead shock the entire world with its lunacy. Paradox Interactive had gone off the deep end and raised the middle finger to everybody who stayed loyal to them. They had announced that they didn't care anymore, that they didn't care for their community, and they were going to go out of their way to sabotage everything they had spent years creating. The pain I felt from this betrayal has destroyed me on an emotional level, and has deprived me of my primary source of entertainment. No longer can I play Grand Strategy games without remembering the day I ceased mattering to people I devoted myself to. Paradox had not just destroyed me or their company, they had destroyed the one force of stability in the world: Trust.
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Apr 2, 2020 16:06
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source your quotes
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Apr 2, 2020 16:12
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Tatsuta Age posted:source your quotes Darkrenown (one of the CK2 dev goons) even had part of this quote under his avatar here on SA, it's probably one of the most famous CK2 Paradox forums quotes.
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Apr 2, 2020 16:27
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raising your vassals levies in a defensive war doesn’t incur the opinion penalties iirc
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Apr 2, 2020 17:19
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megane posted:Still holding out for invasions from the south and north. Scandinavia will tremble before the hordes of Jan Mayen. Have an invasion from the middle. Aliens land in Anatolia.
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Apr 2, 2020 20:51
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HoI2 had an alien invasion console command.
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Apr 2, 2020 21:12
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northern invasion would be from svalbard, duh
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Apr 2, 2020 23:19
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LordMune posted:None of the faith names set in stone just yet, but the team determined asatru to be the least nazi term that still retained some flavor; even the most neutral descriptors of old Norse religion are tainted in some way because that's what nazis do. Who are you?
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Apr 3, 2020 06:48
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a fatguy baldspot posted:extremely silly of you to think there won’t be a new amount of so many weird little things on release yeah very this like i'm probably gonna buy CK3 on release and follow it closely if for no other reason than i really want to see the game succeed and i'm sure that, eventually, i will love it to pieces. but comparing it to the CK2 release coming from CK1 is not really valid. CK1 had a much shorter dev cycle overall and CK2 was much, much closer to feature parity. you couldn't play as anyone but christians, yes, but the war/peace cycle was pretty much intact between the two games, which it won't be unless we expect features from no fewer than 3 DLCs that came out over the course of multiple years. we've kind of seen how Way of Life will be included and improved upon, but we still need to see Monks and Mystics and Conclave also brought in, at absolute minimum. I might be forgetting another DLC's contributions since it's 1 am. and then you have to assume that all of these things will work as intended and expected in an at least somewhat balanced manner and that they don't directly conflict with one another. it's just a really tall order.
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Apr 3, 2020 07:22
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Jedi Knight Luigi posted:Who are you? LordMune has been a Paradox dev for years, working on CK3.
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Apr 3, 2020 07:25
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CK2 was the first (and only) Paradox game that was worth buying on release
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Apr 3, 2020 08:09
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binge crotching posted:LordMune has been a Paradox dev for years, working on CK3. Oh cool. Bring back portrait frames. I guess they’ll have to be rectangular this time around.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:38
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:CK2 was the first (and only) Paradox game that was worth buying on release 💯%% ck1 was a very good game after the second expansion, i think it was? ck2 killed it basically immediately, because it took those basics, made them better, and put them in the main game. hoping this follows the same pattern tbh
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Apr 3, 2020 10:30
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a fatguy baldspot posted:💯%% CK1 second expansion was CK2.
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Apr 3, 2020 11:27
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ilitarist posted:CK1 second expansion was CK2. i think their modern average of 12 threw me off
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Apr 3, 2020 11:32
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:CK2 was the first (and only) Paradox game that was worth buying on release I was satisfied with Stellaris, the only Paradox game I bought on release, but it was not as good as early CK2. CK2 was my first Paradox game, and I bought it about a month or so before Sword of Islam's release. It was already a super engaging game. Nowadays you don't usually move the start date too much beyond 1066, but at that time, the world felt massively different each century. Marrying into claims, forging them, arranging beneficial inheritances, all these made the base game super engaging. Emergent storytelling was already very good with just base Catholics, CK2 was extremely worth it to buy that early. That's why I'm hopeful for CK3. Many systems seem to be on par with their current CK2 equivalents, with some notable improvements like improved council management, inheritances, cadet branches, talent trees for your dynasty, better lifestyle focuses (foci?) than Way of Life, more control over your army composition, etc. Yes, you will lose access to tribals, nomads and merchant republics, but if they can create an improved feudal experience, then I'm confident that it's worthwhile to buy The Republic or Horse Lords for CK3 again.
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Apr 3, 2020 12:47
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EU3 and EU4 was fine at release. I don't remember any major problems. Of course it has been many years but I think I would remember it if it was a shitshow.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:30
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It sounds like they've laid the grounds for dynamic heresies, which could be very interesting. Putting so many modular elements into religion that promise to make for dramatically different playstyles could make for some very interesting gameplay, but it's also a whole lot to keep track of if you're just trying to play a more normal game without finagling with your religion. And of course, expanding religion mechanics always makes me think of how it'd be if you expanded the timeline to either include ecumenical councils or the protestant reformation. They haven't gone into what things are going to be like outside of christianity, although they have mentioned pagan reformation, so it might be interesting to see how the caliph will be handled or if there's a sort of reformation for zoroastrianism.
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Apr 3, 2020 15:53
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SlothfulCobra posted:It sounds like they've laid the grounds for dynamic heresies, which could be very interesting. I think they have already said that dynamic heresies would be a thing so yeah that's definitely what this system is intended for. They've mentioned that there will be a distinction between "heresies" and "local practices", where you can make a few tweaks to your religion without it being considered heretical, but I'm not totally sure how that will work (they will probably go into that in one of the next few DDs).
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Apr 3, 2020 21:25
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Torrannor posted:Darkrenown (one of the CK2 dev goons) even had part of this quote under his avatar here on SA, it's probably one of the most famous CK2 Paradox forums quotes. It was a satirical post, however, which i think has been forgotten
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Apr 3, 2020 21:34
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All the best copypasta is satire that is searching for a limit of the most ridiculous thing you can say that can still be an honest opinion. They targeted gamers, you have fooled not just the game but yourself. Except Navy Seal copypasta, I prefer to believe it's genuine.
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Apr 3, 2020 21:47
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