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Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Fuligin posted:

It was a satirical post, however, which i think has been forgotten

A satire that perfectly encapsulates the mind of Paradox fans.

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Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

ilitarist posted:

All the best copypasta is satire that is searching for a limit of the most ridiculous thing you can say that can still be an honest opinion. They targeted gamers, you have fooled not just the game but yourself.

Except Navy Seal copypasta, I prefer to believe it's genuine.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Buschmaki posted:

I declare a revocation war on my dad who is also your heir and vassal and then immediately surrender. It gives you control of all the counties in your realm immediately and skyrockets your levy size

I took a different route - I converted to Catholicism, divorced my wife and married a decently strong co-religionist for support. A few years down the line I got my daughter a nice matrilineal betrothal, and that was that because it was with the youngest son of the Holy Roman Emperor.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.
I think I’m getting the hang of this game. I just had food poisoning and took the court physicians experimental treatment. Now I’m a eunuch.

It’s okay though. I already had four kids and my heir is a literal moron. I took hedenistic lifestyle and got +20% to fertility to counteract the -5000% from being a eunuch. Fun game.

Edit: Serious question. I unified all of Pomerania. I have some bits of Poland and what used to be East Francia. I've also acquired enough of Bohemia to make myself King. If I create that, I have two sons and do nothing, oldest will be King of Pomerania and youngest will be King of Bohemia, right? What happens if I go ahead and grant one of the kingdoms to the oldest son (the moron)? What about granting it to the youngest son now? Or to my matrilineally married daughter?

Bohemia is kind of dogshit, so I'd rather just offload it so I can focus on expanding East and West. If it's held by a family member, am I just asking for trouble or are they more likely to be allies at the King level? Gavelkind is a hell of a drug though. My last succession I became King with two counties (on North and South ends of the Kingdom) and my brother was a Duke with 5 contiguous counties. Luckily I got myself killed pretty fast so 5 County Duke became king.


Second Edit: Thanks for the advice about de-landing people. I've been able to maneuver a lot of people out by asking them to stop plotting and arresting them when they say no.

Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Apr 4, 2020

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


If you kept Satanists enabled, good old Satan will happily regrow them for you.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Look Sir Droids posted:

Second Edit: Thanks for the advice about de-landing people. I've been able to maneuver a lot of people out by asking them to stop plotting and arresting them when they say no.
If they're leading the plot you don't even need to ask. Leading a plot is grounds for arrest.


Another point: Do not ask for an experimental treatment unless you are reasonably sure the disease is going to kill you. Stuff like cancer, gout, and other diseases that don't clear up on their own or give you crippling health maluses. Food poisoning doesn't qualify; it clears itself up in a few months, tops, and while it's a nontrivial health debuff, it's not one that's gonna kill you in the window it's got unless you're already like 80. Use well-tested treatments instead for those sorts of things.



Moving on to the big question in your post: With Gavelkind, any title you have uncreated will be implicitly created when you die. So you may as well create the kingdom title now, that way you will actually have some control over it when you die. Precisely how the crowns will be inherited depends on some stuff. Your primary title will go to your heir, as will your capital county and duchy. Everything else is kind of a shitshow as to who exactly gets what, but you can be guaranteed your heir won't get the other king title. In your two-inheritor case, yes, it will go to the second son.

Granting it to your matrilineally married daughter is probably not an option. The title would need to be Absolute Cognatic, and that's probably down the line a bit. However, you could grant it to her first born son, who would be your dynast. If she doesn't have one yet, you could ostensibly grant it to your non-dynast son-in-law, but be warned that will give him both a reason to kill/divorce your daughter (ie: his dynasty will lose the kingdom after he dies/his dynasty may go extinct altogether) and the political juice to actually try to carry that out. It's much safer to wait until your daughter gives you a grandson, and then hand the title to the kid.

e: follow up thought: If you only have two sons and one of them is an imbecile, you might want to look at some options for getting rid of the idiot son so you have only one inheritor. This is the only way to keep your realm together with Gavelkind. If you were Catholic you could just make him a bishop, but if memory serves you are an unreformed Slavic pagan. so in your case i think it's mostly killing the son. if you have time (10+ years) what you might consider doing is making the idiot son a commander and raising a very small army and a very small fleet. set him to raiding stance and put him to sea. hang out on a boat. after 3 years he will almost definitely have scurvy. decline to treat him. if there's a place nearby that has measles, smallpox, or some other kind of epidemic disease along the coast, send him over there to raid and pop back onto the boat when you see the fuzz coming. with a little luck he will get the epidemic and be at -6 or worse health, which will absolutely kill your rear end with a quickness. but even if not, having -3 for numerous years makes you pretty frail.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Apr 4, 2020

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles
Is there any mod that makes the Great Work interface less painfully awful? It's like the worst designed thing in the whole game, I'd like to be able to see more than two of the things I can build in this loving garden at a time. I have once called bigger interface but it did nothing and UI scaling just makes the entire thing proportionally bigger.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Coolguye posted:

If they're leading the plot you don't even need to ask. Leading a plot is grounds for arrest.


Another point: Do not ask for an experimental treatment unless you are reasonably sure the disease is going to kill you. Stuff like cancer, gout, and other diseases that don't clear up on their own or give you crippling health maluses. Food poisoning doesn't qualify; it clears itself up in a few months, tops, and while it's a nontrivial health debuff, it's not one that's gonna kill you in the window it's got unless you're already like 80. Use well-tested treatments instead for those sorts of things.



Moving on to the big question in your post: With Gavelkind, any title you have uncreated will be implicitly created when you die. So you may as well create the kingdom title now, that way you will actually have some control over it when you die. Precisely how the crowns will be inherited depends on some stuff. Your primary title will go to your heir, as will your capital county and duchy. Everything else is kind of a shitshow as to who exactly gets what, but you can be guaranteed your heir won't get the other king title. In your two-inheritor case, yes, it will go to the second son.

Granting it to your matrilineally married daughter is probably not an option. The title would need to be Absolute Cognatic, and that's probably down the line a bit. However, you could grant it to her first born son, who would be your dynast. If she doesn't have one yet, you could ostensibly grant it to your non-dynast son-in-law, but be warned that will give him both a reason to kill/divorce your daughter (ie: his dynasty will lose the kingdom after he dies/his dynasty may go extinct altogether) and the political juice to actually try to carry that out. It's much safer to wait until your daughter gives you a grandson, and then hand the title to the kid.

e: follow up thought: If you only have two sons and one of them is an imbecile, you might want to look at some options for getting rid of the idiot son so you have only one inheritor. This is the only way to keep your realm together with Gavelkind. If you were Catholic you could just make him a bishop, but if memory serves you are an unreformed Slavic pagan. so in your case i think it's mostly killing the son. if you have time (10+ years) what you might consider doing is making the idiot son a commander and raising a very small army and a very small fleet. set him to raiding stance and put him to sea. hang out on a boat. after 3 years he will almost definitely have scurvy. decline to treat him. if there's a place nearby that has measles, smallpox, or some other kind of epidemic disease along the coast, send him over there to raid and pop back onto the boat when you see the fuzz coming. with a little luck he will get the epidemic and be at -6 or worse health, which will absolutely kill your rear end with a quickness. but even if not, having -3 for numerous years makes you pretty frail.

So imbecile son, I married him off quick to someone w high stewardship. He now has three sons already. Eldest daughter married matrilineally has a son already too.

My second son died as an infant. Fourth child is a daughter I’ve married off non-matrilineally bc my heirs already had heirs themselves.

I’ve actually been Catholic for a long time. But I have papal investiture, not free. So I’m not sure I can make him a bishop.

Can I join someone’s war and send the imbecile in a very small army? Is there a better way? The King of one of my allies is plotting to kill him lol. I could join that plot but this King isn’t adding anyone else to the plot on his own so I’m better off doing my own plot.

Sounds like the best option here is making the daughter’s son king. My current ruler is 46 so I’ve got time. Imbecile son is already almost 30 too, so if he inherits I think I can get him killed pretty fast. I should probably wait until I’m sure HIS heir isn’t also an imbecile though?


Edit: After thinking about it, is my best option to go ahead and create the Bohemia Kingdom, let imbecile son inherit it, and then decide on who to grant it to? It still probably makes sense to grant it to matrilineal grandson in the long run, but the kingdoms won't split immediately since my current ruler only has one living son. I'll just need to sort it out before imbecile son dies and has an inheritance mess with his three sons. Is my analysis correct? Current ruler only needs to live another approx 8 years until imbecile's eldest son is 16. If he's okay, then I can put imbecile ruler in to bad positions and get him killed off.

Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Apr 4, 2020

Squinky v2.0
Nov 16, 2006

Behind you! A three headed monkey!

College Slice
i just gave glitterhoof a concubine. He’s doing so good as chancellor, he earned it.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Look Sir Droids posted:

I’ve actually been Catholic for a long time. But I have papal investiture, not free. So I’m not sure I can make him a bishop.
You just need to get a title to a bishopric. The most peaceful way to do this is to build a church holding, but it might be easier to just take the intrigue focus and spy on a bishop until you catch him plotting.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Coolguye posted:

You just need to get a title to a bishopric. The most peaceful way to do this is to build a church holding, but it might be easier to just take the intrigue focus and spy on a bishop until you catch him plotting.

I don’t have that DLC.

I can probably build a church in my capital. I think I have an open slot but I’d prefer it be a castle for more troops. I’m sure I have other slots in other holdings though. The other consideration is cost and time.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
Don't build it in your capital county if you're going to go that route. Build it in some county you intend to give away anyway. Alternatively, just switch to Free Investiture, get your poo poo done, and then cave when the pope tells you to change it back (he will definitely tell you to change it back).

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018

you can build things in vassals counties too if you don’t want to build it in one of yours, iirc. it’ll belong to you when built and whoever you give it to will be your direct vassal (tho the vassal who owns the county will be a little annoyed and will eventually ask for it back)

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist

Look Sir Droids posted:

I don’t have that DLC.

I can probably build a church in my capital. I think I have an open slot but I’d prefer it be a castle for more troops. I’m sure I have other slots in other holdings though. The other consideration is cost and time.

The reason others tell you not to build church in your own demesne is because it brings less gold and troops than the city and castle. And for Catholics it's likely that bishops will pay taxes to Pope, not to you. You get piety when it's in your demesne but it's a minor boon compared to having troops and money.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.
Played a bit longer. My ruler is 50 now. I have 5 of 6 Bohemian counties so I created the kingdom.

If I grant Bohemia to the imbecile’s son, then let the imbecile inherit Pomerania from me, if I can keep the imbecile’s reign short by getting him killed, will the son with Bohemia get Pomerania when the imbecile dies?

Rocket Baby Dolls
Mar 3, 2006

Underneath he has a velvet, yummy tummy you wish you could just stroke and squish all day! Ahh! But on top... On top it's a whole different story... On top he is a scary stiff stabber!
The one issue I'm having with a tribal nation is having everything splinter the moment the King dies. I managed to grow my kingdom bigger with each leader, but as soon as he dies I have to declare war on two of the three nations that have splintered away to bring them back under my tyranny leadership. I'm at a point where I can create an empire but I'm struggling to get my prestige up in a timely manner, at this rate it's going to take 100-150 years to get to those levels. This has definitely been a huge learning experience but it's tiring putting work into gaining so much ground, only to lose it to so easily without much effort.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Look Sir Droids posted:

Played a bit longer. My ruler is 50 now. I have 5 of 6 Bohemian counties so I created the kingdom.

If I grant Bohemia to the imbecile’s son, then let the imbecile inherit Pomerania from me, if I can keep the imbecile’s reign short by getting him killed, will the son with Bohemia get Pomerania when the imbecile dies?

most probably. given that you're gavelkind there's some stuff that might get in the way, possibly, but with what you've told us of the various situations it shouldn't be an issue.

though, if you are Catholic now, there's no reason why you couldn't just get Late Feudal Administration at legalism research 3 and get off of Gavelkind.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

Coolguye posted:

most probably. given that you're gavelkind there's some stuff that might get in the way, possibly, but with what you've told us of the various situations it shouldn't be an issue.

though, if you are Catholic now, there's no reason why you couldn't just get Late Feudal Administration at legalism research 3 and get off of Gavelkind.

I don’t have legalism 3 yet. I’m probably halfway there on cultural points. What succession should I go with?

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Look Sir Droids posted:

I don’t have legalism 3 yet. I’m probably halfway there on cultural points. What succession should I go with?

Elective might work if you have tight control of the elector titles (the ducal titles). Alternatively, Seniority is still better than Gavelkind in general, even if it's an obnoxious law all around.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
The good thing about seniority is that if your heir is poo poo, you can probably stab him without the "can't stab your own children" rule getting in the way.

The bad thing about seniority is that if you're not carefully curating your heir like that, your rulers don't live for very long after taking the throne.

AnEdgelord
Dec 12, 2016
Actually knuckling down and learning to play this thing while I've got some time on my hands but I have two questions

1. Whenever I press the claim of someone other than myself how do I know if that person will be a vassal under me after the war is over? I pressed the claim of a courtier, who had one of my vassals as a liege, and it set them up as an independent county after the war.

2. How do I get allies and once I get them how do I call them into my wars? I'm used to other paradox games where thats just a diplomatic option you can select and I'm unsure how its implemented here.

I'm enjoying my Ireland game so far, I took part in the first crusade and got an absolute shitton of Gold, Prestige and Piety off of a convincing victory there and then turned around and used all that to bankroll the children's crusade which also succeeded thanks to the Fatmids getting Egypt turned into a crusader state and crippling crippling them. Now i'm just slowly uniting ireland and building a big cathedral while I wait for the next crusade to start.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

AnEdgelord posted:

Actually knuckling down and learning to play this thing while I've got some time on my hands but I have two questions

1. Whenever I press the claim of someone other than myself how do I know if that person will be a vassal under me after the war is over? I pressed the claim of a courtier, who had one of my vassals as a liege, and it set them up as an independent county after the war.

I’m also new but I think I’ve got this one figured out. The person whose claim you’re pressing needs to be a vassal, not just a courtier, when you start the war. So I try to find a barony or a tribe to give away to them before starting the war.

I tried it the other way when I pressed a courtiers claim and same thing, they went independent. Offered vassalization to her, but wouldn’t take it. But the courtier whose claim I pressed was the wife of one of my Counts, so I immediately pressed the husband’s claim against the wife and it was a two-step process for getting that county in my realm instead of one step.

You can also check for claimants to a target county and find someone to invite to your court. You still have to make them a vassal if they agree to come though.

Complications
Jun 19, 2014

AnEdgelord posted:

Actually knuckling down and learning to play this thing while I've got some time on my hands but I have two questions

1. Whenever I press the claim of someone other than myself how do I know if that person will be a vassal under me after the war is over? I pressed the claim of a courtier, who had one of my vassals as a liege, and it set them up as an independent county after the war.
The mechanics are here. tl;dr, land them as your vassal first, make sure the title you're pressing is less than yours. Exceptions apply if they're a dynasty member or the pressed claim is in your de jure lands.

shades of blue
Sep 27, 2012

Rocket Baby Dolls posted:

The one issue I'm having with a tribal nation is having everything splinter the moment the King dies. I managed to grow my kingdom bigger with each leader, but as soon as he dies I have to declare war on two of the three nations that have splintered away to bring them back under my tyranny leadership. I'm at a point where I can create an empire but I'm struggling to get my prestige up in a timely manner, at this rate it's going to take 100-150 years to get to those levels. This has definitely been a huge learning experience but it's tiring putting work into gaining so much ground, only to lose it to so easily without much effort.

change your goal

Complications
Jun 19, 2014

Rocket Baby Dolls posted:

The one issue I'm having with a tribal nation is having everything splinter the moment the King dies. I managed to grow my kingdom bigger with each leader, but as soon as he dies I have to declare war on two of the three nations that have splintered away to bring them back under my tyranny leadership. I'm at a point where I can create an empire but I'm struggling to get my prestige up in a timely manner, at this rate it's going to take 100-150 years to get to those levels. This has definitely been a huge learning experience but it's tiring putting work into gaining so much ground, only to lose it to so easily without much effort.

Invite an Irish culture dude to court, have him educate your heir, switch succession to Tanistry after inheritance. It's not quite Primo- or Ultimogeniture for convenience but Tanistry is still pretty great and ends the Gavelkind splinter.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

AnEdgelord posted:

1. Whenever I press the claim of someone other than myself how do I know if that person will be a vassal under me after the war is over? I pressed the claim of a courtier, who had one of my vassals as a liege, and it set them up as an independent county after the war.

There are three cases where you can press another person's claims and they become your vassal afterwards:

1. They have to be part of your dynasty.

2. They need to be among your landed vassals. You usually cheat that step by giving them a random barony you have lying around.

3. Their claim is for a title that should be de jure your vassal, i.e. as the king of Ireland, if you press somebody's claim on Dublin, they will become your vassal afterwards, since Dublin is de jure part of the Kingdom of Ireland.

You just need to keep one last thing in mind here: You can't have vassals of the same or higher rank than you, a king can't have another king as vassal. So as the king of Ireland, if you press somebody's claim on the kingdom of Scotland, they would become independent, while as the emperor of Britannia, you could press somebody's claim on the kingdom of France, and they would become your vassal, provided they fall into one of the three categories I outlined above.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Alternatively if you are tribal gavelkind is a lot easier to deal with now that you can just duel your siblings. As long as only one of you dies, you win! And tribes don't mind a bit of kinslaying.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Jabor posted:

The good thing about seniority is that if your heir is poo poo, you can probably stab him without the "can't stab your own children" rule getting in the way.

The bad thing about seniority is that if you're not carefully curating your heir like that, your rulers don't live for very long after taking the throne.

Which can make it extremely hard to change away from Seniority succession, because you need to have reigned for a certain amount of time before you can alter succession laws. If you're willing to take the risk of being a very small dynasty - as in, one branch, kill or invest your siblings when you inherit - it can be a substitute for primogeniture, but on the whole it's a trap.

On the subject of the elderly: I just saw a 43 year old Glitterhoof. Is this a record? The health maluses usually get Glitterhoof in his 20s even if he's not assassinated. (I also found said Glitterhoof as part of the random "gave them a tumble" event, so for the second time my ruler has banged a horse while sane.)

Tias
May 25, 2008

Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Anyone else experiencing a glitch after last update where you can't place council members on missions? The map lights up to suggest possible regions, but nothing happens when you click.

ilitarist
Apr 26, 2016

illiterate and militarist
While we're talking about the glitches I think something is wrong with observing the sky mission for Hermetics. In two separate games I had a dynasty of Hermetics and I always fail this mission. I had a guy with a perfect observatory, 38 learning, I chose to concentrate on the stars in every event and it still failed. I think it failed 5 times for me in total in my 2 games, and I've almost always chose nerdy options in events about the stars.

Neurion
Jun 3, 2013

The musical fruit
The more you eat
The more you hoot

I finally got all the achievements in this game :unsmith:

cool av
Mar 2, 2013

Coolguye posted:

Moving on to the big question in your post: With Gavelkind, any title you have uncreated will be implicitly created when you die. So you may as well create the kingdom title now, that way you will actually have some control over it when you die.

Really? I've never seen this happen. Don't create a 2nd top-tier title under gavelkind.



Unrelated question: what are the rules for taking a vassal's vassal?

I'm emperor of Byzantium and I want to take control of Jerusalem to get an Orthodox bishop there (although I don't 100% understand how Bishopric succession works for Orthodox). It's controlled by a Catholic Countess, under a Catholic Duke, under an Orthodox King. For some reason, I can't retract the vassalage of the Duke in question from the King, even though I can take other Dukes from him.

cool av
Mar 2, 2013

Neurion posted:

I finally got all the achievements in this game :unsmith:

it's good to be king

Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009

Neurion posted:

I finally got all the achievements in this game :unsmith:

What was hardest? IndoNorse?

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

cool av posted:

Really? I've never seen this happen. Don't create a 2nd top-tier title under gavelkind.


Welp, too late.

I’ve decided I don’t have an immediate problem. Imbecile son is an imbecile but he’s my only son, so everything will pass to him. He’s the keeper of a goddamn sacred owl, so it’s fine.

I think my plan for the remainder of this ruler, and on in to imbecile son’s reign, is to get succession to primogeniture. Because imbecile son’s first born son has pretty good stats at 13.

I’m at medium crown authority, so looking at the reqs, I need to pass High authority and make sure I can bribe quite a few vassals to like me. This will be a lot easier with current ruler because all but my vassals in jail like him. But I’ll take a hit if High authority passes. Imbecile son is also fat and a drunkard, so yeah. Can you change crown laws and succession in a relatively short time? I figure I have 10-15 years with current ruler.

a fatguy baldspot
Aug 29, 2018

Look Sir Droids posted:

Welp, too late.

I’ve decided I don’t have an immediate problem. Imbecile son is an imbecile but he’s my only son, so everything will pass to him. He’s the keeper of a goddamn sacred owl, so it’s fine.

I think my plan for the remainder of this ruler, and on in to imbecile son’s reign, is to get succession to primogeniture. Because imbecile son’s first born son has pretty good stats at 13.

I’m at medium crown authority, so looking at the reqs, I need to pass High authority and make sure I can bribe quite a few vassals to like me. This will be a lot easier with current ruler because all but my vassals in jail like him. But I’ll take a hit if High authority passes. Imbecile son is also fat and a drunkard, so yeah. Can you change crown laws and succession in a relatively short time? I figure I have 10-15 years with current ruler.

you can change succ laws immediately after changing crown laws if you meet all the requirements.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
I have a problem with my succession laws.

I have in the game rules, gender settings set to "all". I edited my King title to be Enatic-Cognatic, so far so good.

But whenever I die, my realm law resets to Agnatic-Cognatic.

At some point I acquired a second King title which we edited both to enatic-cognatic, but for some reason only one but not the other resets when I die.

Whats happening here?

Neurion
Jun 3, 2013

The musical fruit
The more you eat
The more you hoot

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

What was hardest? IndoNorse?

Birthright was definitely the hardest for me, or at least the one that seemed to evade me the most and cause the most aggravation. I've never had a demon child appear naturally (i.e. without using the dark impregnation mission) until after I got the achievement. It's a very rare event, and the biggest hassle is you've got to roll the dice on the gender of the child and hope it's a male for easier inheritance.

No Pants
Dec 10, 2000

cool av posted:

Really? I've never seen this happen. Don't create a 2nd top-tier title under gavelkind.

It's a feature of elective gavelkind that only applies to king titles. If you're a king or an emperor, and you can create more kingdoms, they'll be created for your junior heirs.

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binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

What was hardest? IndoNorse?

Playing from 769/867 to the end.

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