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Sanguinia posted:New Japan does the same type of character-driven continuity-based storytelling in their big matches, and AEW has done it several times so far as well: Cody v Dustin, Kenny v Moxley, Bucks v Kenny/Hangman... and notably, they manage to do those things with wrestling matches
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Apr 6, 2020 07:59
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Alaois posted:and notably, they manage to do those things with wrestling matches So has Cena and Bray, in this case they didn't have that option but managed to tell the story in a compelling way.
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Apr 6, 2020 08:02
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THIS IS LONG BUT ALAN IS GOOD: https://twitter.com/BTSheetsPod/status/1247000166789533697 https://twitter.com/BTSheetsPod/status/1247060887103508480
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Apr 6, 2020 08:21
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lmao I love Dave Bryan: Literally it was the way Benoit killed himself! Dave: No, no, it wasn't a lat machine
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Apr 6, 2020 13:04
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Glad that they kept Beej on even after moving to a remote format, Beej reacting to Graham and Adam reacting to wrestling has become a third of the fun for me.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:13
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Gonzo McFee posted:Randy Orton sure can fit a five minute match into a ten minute slot. God I wish it had been ten minutes
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Apr 6, 2020 13:14
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Tuesday show will have Granny review of the boneyard match.
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Apr 6, 2020 14:15
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Sanguinia posted:Ok, I can accept that it was too long and you didn't like the ending, but nothing to say? The deconstruction of John Cena as a character could not have been more complete. For god's sake the climax of the match was original Bray recreating the "hit me with a chair," spot from Mania 30, and Cena did a montage flashback of Famous Cena Sucks moments before taking the swing instead of throwing the chair away like he did originally, leading to an emotional break as he realized that Bray was right that deep down he's a bad person and a bully, which allowed Bray to pin him with his finisher. Cena realizing he’s a bad person and losing is the absolute worst way to tell a story about a babyface. They compared Cena to hogan a few times and then he lost. Wow the artistry. Usually in any other movie/tv show/ book when the character is confronted with their personal fears and anxieties it allows them to reflect and learn what they need to do to overcome it. Cena just gets pounded with nostalgia until he admits that he was overrated and not very good? The guy who carried a dying company on his back for a decade. The_Rob fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 14:42
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The_Rob posted:Cena realizing he’s a bad person and losing is the absolute worst way to tell a story about a babyface. They compared Cena to hogan a few times and then he lost. Wow the artistry. Suggesting that it would've been better if Cena came out on a top is a truly baffling criticism IMO
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Apr 6, 2020 14:53
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your friend wicka posted:Suggesting that it would've been better if Cena came out on a top is a truly baffling criticism IMO In what way? Why would you want the evil clown man to come out on top?
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Apr 6, 2020 14:54
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The_Rob posted:In what way? Why would you want the evil clown man to come out on top? You think part-timer John Cena needs to win even more often?
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Apr 6, 2020 15:34
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your friend wicka posted:You think part-timer John Cena needs to win even more often? For the story they’re attempting to tell? Yeah. Unless they wanted their story to be that the evil clown man with the monster human face mask who also hosts a sinister kids show is correct at exploiting a mans insecurities and mental weakness in order to win.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:37
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The_Rob posted:For the story they’re attempting to tell? Yeah. The good guy always has to win?
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Apr 6, 2020 15:39
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your friend wicka posted:The good guy always has to win? That’s usually the payoff in wrestling. Unless they’re building to something else? Which I don’t think they are.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:42
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The match was the WWE version of one of those NJPW matches where they do like ten different spots that call back to previous matches but instead it was "moments" and wasn't very cohesive.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:43
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Hey guys remember when joker ultimately beat Batman for good?
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Apr 6, 2020 15:45
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I honestly hope that's the last time we see John Cena in a wrestling match and he kayfabe was banished to the Red Room for good. That or we get Long Haired Fiend John Cena for 17 years until Crew Cut Cena is found wandering a Vegas casino winning slots.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:46
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The_Rob posted:That’s usually the payoff in wrestling. Unless they’re building to something else? Which I don’t think they are. I feel like I'm losing my loving mind here The_Rob posted:Hey guys remember when joker ultimately beat Batman for good? This is such a loving stupid post that completely ignores the actual context of the match, don't do this poo poo.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:49
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So if I understand correctly this was End Of Evangelion except instead of the big criticism of the main character being "you're a self centered misogynist who would rather let everything around you die than interrogate the way you expect everyone else to treat you" it's "you weren't a very good friend to Zack Ryder". Is that accurate?
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Apr 6, 2020 15:53
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Gumball Gumption posted:The match was the WWE version of one of those NJPW matches where they do like ten different spots that call back to previous matches but instead it was "moments" and wasn't very cohesive. I'm sure as poo poo not going to argue if you thought the match was bad for a great many other reasons, that's totally fair, but the suggestion that John Cena should've won is downright insanity and directly conflicts with what virtually everyone in this forum thinks 99% of the time. No one thinks JOHN CENA should win more matches, no one thinks the criticism Wyatt is aiming at him is in any way wide of the mark.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:53
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I Before E posted:So if I understand correctly this was End Of Evangelion except instead of the big criticism of the main character being "you're a self centered misogynist who would rather let everything around you die than interrogate the way you expect everyone else to treat you" it's "you weren't a very good friend to Zack Ryder". Yea but also instead of Shinji actually ever learning a lesson and admitting that he is actually worthwhile he’s instead killed by an evil clown.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:55
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Eh, I don't think Cena should of won but I wish there was a better explanation for what losing means. The Boneyard match was pretty clear cut. AJ lost, gets buried, Undertaker proves that he's a young and spry undead teleporting corpse. Comparatively Cena gets teleported to the funhouse. Has a "match" that is a bunch of his biggest moments, gives into anger and swings the chair, gets pinned, and disappears which means that... I don't really know. Is Cena gone? Was this all in his head? Is he the Fiend now? I don't really understand what the consequences of losing are.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:57
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The_Rob posted:Yea but also instead of Shinji actually ever learning a lesson and admitting that he is actually worthwhile he’s instead killed by an evil clown. Well that's why I said End Of Evangelion, in that one he doesn't learn and that's why he's left to his ironic fate: everyone else is dead except for a woman who hates him. If it was like the TV ending, where the problem with Shinji is just "you're too afraid of being vulnerable to actually live your life", we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:58
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karmicknight posted:Glad that they kept Beej on even after moving to a remote format, Beej reacting to Graham and Adam reacting to wrestling has become a third of the fun for me. Absolutely. Beej has great reactions in general, and the three man booth works better here than on actual shows.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:00
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Cena beat him already!
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Apr 6, 2020 16:01
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Gumball Gumption posted:Eh, I don't think Cena should of won but I wish there was a better explanation for what losing means. The Boneyard match was pretty clear cut. AJ lost, gets buried, Undertaker proves that he's a young and spry undead teleporting corpse. It definitely feels like a setup for a redemption story but without any expectation that you'll see more of this, unless Cena plans to stick around for longer, which would be surprising. I mean, he's certainly not going to be filming any movies any time soon, maybe they are actually planning to run with this?
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Apr 6, 2020 16:03
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I Before E posted:Well that's why I said End Of Evangelion, in that one he doesn't learn and that's why he's left to his ironic fate: everyone else is dead except for a woman who hates him. If it was like the TV ending, where the problem with Shinji is just "you're too afraid of being vulnerable to actually live your life", we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Totally and I think that’s what they were going for. But like Gumball Gunption said. There doesn’t actually seem to be any consequences to losing. At least with end of Eva the world is gone. There was still one match left last night.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:04
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I think the AV Club review summaries Wyatt-Cena pretty well:quote:The Firefly Funhouse Match is like an Are You Afraid Of The Dark? episode, but with 15 years of actual history behind it. Less a match than a psychological thriller, the bout found Cena falling prey to a time-traveling maelstrom in which Cena, now an A-list actor alongside The Rock, is forced to confront his legacy as seen through the eyes of modern wrestling fans. His early gimmicks—the “Ruthless Aggression” promo, the Doctor Of Thuganomics—haunt him, as does the pressures of him being viewed by both management and fans as a modern-day Hulk Hogan. Wyatt leads him through a bygone Saturday Night’s Main Event promo, mocks the ways in which his relationship with Nikki Bella was exploited by WWE, and imagines an alternate history in which he listened to fans and pulled a Hogan-esque nWo heel turn. Most fascinating, however, is how Wyatt uses Cena’s own losses and failures as a means of framing his resentment over Cena beating him at Wrestlemania 30, which more or less marked the beginning Bray’s descent as a character. That was, along with Cena’s win over the Nexus, a historically bad bit of WWE programming, one that stifled its rising stars in favor of a sure thing. Yes, this is scripted, but it also folds in what are no doubt real resentments on the part of Windham Rotunda (Bray’s real name), as well as insecurities Cena likely has as someone who’s followed in The Rock’s footsteps and now views the business from a place of retrospection.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:13
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OctoberCountry posted:lmao I love Dave Bryan still doesn’t understand you can’t just use the word ”literally” willy-nilly in Dave’s presence smdh
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Apr 6, 2020 16:24
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The_Rob posted:Totally and I think that’s what they were going for. But like Gumball Gunption said. There doesn’t actually seem to be any consequences to losing. At least with end of Eva the world is gone. There was still one match left last night. Cena literally disappeared. He gave in to his anger and let the Fiend inhabit him, and now he is gone. That's the consequence of him losing. With WWE you never know, but this clearly wasn't planned to be an ending, it's the dark middle chapter in the redemption of Cena.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:32
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your friend wicka posted:I think the AV Club review summaries Wyatt-Cena pretty well: And I thought Dave's reviews were word-salad
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Apr 6, 2020 16:35
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your friend wicka posted:I think the AV Club review summaries Wyatt-Cena pretty well: Oh so they filmed a forum post from 2015 I don't just mean that as a flippant dig, this criticism of Cena seems so outdated, so stuck in a world where people still had hope that WWE could be good if they just pushed guys like Damien Sandow more. It's like if they dedicated a segment in 2020 to fantasy booking the 2006 Rey Mysterio world title run.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:36
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just like literally every single thing in wrestling, it could have been improved by removing the wink-wink worked shoot poo poo or portraying it differently
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Apr 6, 2020 16:42
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Low Desert Punk posted:just like literally every single thing in wrestling, it could have been improved by removing the wink-wink worked shoot poo poo or portraying it differently Wrestling will always work at its best with dumb blunt storytelling. That’s why the boneyard match rules. It was dumb as hell and told you the most simple version of that story.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:44
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I Before E posted:Oh so they filmed a forum post from 2015 That's not a flippant dig, that's pretty much the shortest possible way to accurately describe the match.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:59
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The Nexus sucked and it is hilarious to complain about Cena stifling that barely trained squad of quitters the night Drew McIntyre completed his redemption arc.
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Apr 6, 2020 17:02
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OctoberCountry posted:lmao I love Dave This is funny but also brings up the question - Has Dave ever actually laughed out loud about anything on podcasts? I know he has a weird sense of humor but I don't know that I've ever heard him actually laugh.
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Apr 6, 2020 17:05
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Mr. Carlisle posted:This is funny but also brings up the question - Has Dave ever actually laughed out loud about anything on podcasts? I know he has a weird sense of humor but I don't know that I've ever heard him actually laugh. yeah, he does all the time. not as often with bryan but you'll hear it in the Garrett episodes and live Q&As.
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Apr 6, 2020 17:20
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Low Desert Punk posted:yeah, he does all the time. not as often with bryan but you'll hear it in the Garrett episodes and live Q&As. Good to know - I don't think I've heard much from him outside of his regular shows with Bryan I do love that he takes almost every statement literal and issues corrections much to Bryan's frustration
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Apr 6, 2020 17:21
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Mr. Carlisle posted:This is funny but also brings up the question - Has Dave ever actually laughed out loud about anything on podcasts? I know he has a weird sense of humor but I don't know that I've ever heard him actually laugh. He did several times on the last episode. It stuck out to me because I don't think I've ever heard Bryan laugh at anything Dave says. In fact it seems like Bryan isn't really having a conversation with Dave, he just let's him go on long tangents and adds nothing to the discussion because he's too focussed on getting to the next match.
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Apr 6, 2020 20:05
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