politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Guavanaut posted:

If you're going vegetarian for ethical reasons then the egg and dairy industries are as much of a horrorshow, if not more.

I feel like the egg/chicken industry has gotten around that with the various classifications of eggs/chicken. With four levels of chicken welfare (at least here in Denmark, but I assume we're operating under some sort of EU standard?), I think you can be forgiven for thinking the nicest category is actually not a horrorshow.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 12:20

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 8, 2024 06:21

Peggotty: May 9, 2014

Guavanaut posted:

If you're going vegetarian for ethical reasons then the egg and dairy industries are as much of a horrorshow, if not more.

Yes, and then there are tons of other non-food-related industries that are also horrible, but whataboutism only stops people from doing anything at all. Doing one small thing you didn't do before is good, no matter how many bad things there are.

Edit: Sorry, I misread what you were referring to.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 13:46

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

A lot of the distinctions for veganism are incredibly arbitrary and the supposed ethics behind it don't follow any meaningful pattern.

At least vegetarianism is based around a clear line of "did something die for this" as opposed to a vague rejection of the base principles of humans coexisting with animals.

Take the plunge! Okay! posted:

It is the map thread, after all

I never realized how incredibly wrong the french names for Britain and Germany were.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 16:19

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

That's just the French translation of "United Kingdom".

# ? Apr 6, 2020 16:26

shades of blue: Sep 27, 2012

Almain was actually the name for a German in English until the 16th/17th centuries (it's derived from the Alemanni who were a Germanic tribe)

# ? Apr 6, 2020 16:34

Spoeank: Jul 16, 2003; That's a nice set of 11 dynasty points there, it would be a shame if 3 rings were to happen with it

Sampatrick posted:

Almain was actually the name for a German in English until 16th/17th centuries

and in Spanish it's Alemania

# ? Apr 6, 2020 16:35

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

The people are called Allemaniacs.
And they're zany to the max

# ? Apr 6, 2020 16:49

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

SlothfulCobra posted:

I never realized how incredibly wrong the french names for Britain and Germany were.

Alemannic is the dialect of German spoken in much of the border territory with France. Shakespeare referred to Germany as Almain. It is not wrong, op, it is just different. Much like analingus.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 16:50

shades of blue: Sep 27, 2012

crispix posted:

Alemannic is the dialect of German spoken in much of the border territory with France. Shakespeare referred to Germany as Almain. It is not wrong, op, it is just different. Much like analingus.

Shakespeare also referred to Germans as Germans. He used both, I don't know why.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:09

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

Sampatrick posted:

Shakespeare also referred to Germans as Germans. He used both, I don't know why.

Probably much like I can say French or Gallic today I would imagine. The latter is archaic but can still be understood

# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:16

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

SlothfulCobra posted:

A lot of the distinctions for veganism are incredibly arbitrary and the supposed ethics behind it don't follow any meaningful pattern.

At least vegetarianism is based around a clear line of "did something die for this" as opposed to a vague rejection of the base principles of humans coexisting with animals.

Agreed, vegetarianism is what I have the most respect for in an ethical sense. Veganism reminds me more of a religious taboo. There is no ethical reason why I can't eat an egg laid by a perfectly happy free-range chicken. The chicken doesn't care what happens with it.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:37

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

Phlegmish posted:

Agreed, vegetarianism is what I have the most respect for in an ethical sense. Veganism reminds me more of a religious taboo. There is no ethical reason why I can't eat an egg laid by a perfectly happy free-range chicken. The chicken doesn't care what happens with it.

one way to frame this is that capitalist methods of production bake animal cruelty into the system of food manufacturing. for example, the egg industry produces a surplus of male chicks, who are often just thrown into a shredder. i'm only saying this as context, there is of course some inherent degree of cruelty involved in the consumption of living beings, and animal cruelty is not exclusive to capitalism. personally i think it is best to demand regulation for cruelty minimizing practices but this would have some politically weighty consequences, such as more expensive food in general and the outright ban of some foods like veal

# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:51

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Sampatrick posted:

Shakespeare also referred to Germans as Germans. He used both, I don't know why.

Should go back to calling them Dutch (and people from the Netherlands Netherlanders)?

# ? Apr 6, 2020 17:56

Grevling: Dec 18, 2016

Just call them all the same thing, they don't like it but who cares.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:09

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

who the hell says gallic

# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:10

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

a fatguy baldspot posted:

who the hell says gallic

It's really not uncommon in :britain:

# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:23

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

a fatguy baldspot posted:

who the hell says gallic

*starts to raise hand, puts it down and shakes head*

# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:23

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

Phlegmish posted:

Agreed, vegetarianism is what I have the most respect for in an ethical sense. Veganism reminds me more of a religious taboo. There is no ethical reason why I can't eat an egg laid by a perfectly happy free-range chicken. The chicken doesn't care what happens with it.

Now please provide an ethical justification for eating any animal products sold in stores or restaurants, none of which were willingly provided by happy animals without associated cruelty and destruction

# ? Apr 6, 2020 18:34

Craptacular: Jul 11, 2004

Ras Het posted:

Now please provide an ethical justification for eating any animal products sold in stores or restaurants, none of which were willingly provided by happy animals without associated cruelty and destruction

They taste good.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:07

Ras Het: May 23, 2007; when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.

That is the correct response yes, but a lot of people come up with weird illogical justifications

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:15

Quorum: Sep 24, 2014; REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

Since it's the map thread and it's apropos:

I tried to find a more granular map of meat consumption in the US, but meat consumption per capita by country maps are way more popular on the Internet. Interestingly, both major urban centers with their concentrated wealth and fresh food availability and rural areas with proximity to meat production predict higher levels of meat consumption, with the exception of Portland-Seattle on the west coast, New England on the east coast, and New Orleans on the gulf coast. I wonder how much of that is seafood availability.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:18

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Ras Het posted:

Now please provide an ethical justification for eating any animal products sold in stores or restaurants, none of which were willingly provided by happy animals without associated cruelty and destruction

I will not. I think the people who make the choice not to consume products from those specific sources are ethically in the right. My criticism is more of vegans who religiously avoid any and all animal-related products regardless of context or circumstances.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:43

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

Ras Het posted:

Now please provide an ethical justification for eating any animal products sold in stores or restaurants, none of which were willingly provided by happy animals without associated cruelty and destruction

Define cruelty, happiness in an animal, and "willingness".

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:46

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

Quorum posted:

Since it's the map thread and it's apropos:

I tried to find a more granular map of meat consumption in the US, but meat consumption per capita by country maps are way more popular on the Internet. Interestingly, both major urban centers with their concentrated wealth and fresh food availability and rural areas with proximity to meat production predict higher levels of meat consumption, with the exception of Portland-Seattle on the west coast, New England on the east coast, and New Orleans on the gulf coast. I wonder how much of that is seafood availability.

it�s 100% seafood. we eat a lot. what�s up with that inland patch in texas?

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:48

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

it's good to know that even in the worst of times, everyone trips over themselves to explain why they hate vegans and the french language, neither of which they understand

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:57

a fatguy baldspot: Aug 29, 2018

the only morally correct position re: food is freeganism

# ? Apr 6, 2020 19:59

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Sampatrick posted:

Shakespeare also referred to Germans as Germans. He used both, I don't know why.

Obviously this is evidence that the works attributed to �William Shakespeare� are in fact the product of a collective.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 20:04

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

it's good to know that even in the worst of times, everyone trips over themselves to explain why they hate vegans and the french language, neither of which they understand

What's this about French now?

# ? Apr 6, 2020 20:08

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

Phlegmish posted:

What's this about French now?

I think it might have been the person who said the French words for some countries were "wrong" to mean bearing no resemblance to the English counterparts :ssh:

# ? Apr 6, 2020 20:12

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

How loving dumb do you have to be in the politically loaded maps thread to see something written in a foreign language and declare it "wrong"?

# ? Apr 6, 2020 20:22

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

a fatguy baldspot posted:

it�s 100% seafood. we eat a lot. what�s up with that inland patch in texas?

The Brisket Belt

# ? Apr 6, 2020 20:31

Tree Goat: May 24, 2009; argania spinosa

HookShot posted:

How loving dumb do you have to be in the politically loaded maps thread to see something written in a foreign language and declare it "wrong"?

it does annoy me a little that so many esperanto names use exonyms https://esperanto.lingolia.com/en/vocabulary/syllables-for-word-formation/countries-nationalities/countries

# ? Apr 6, 2020 20:35

Tweezer Reprise: Aug 6, 2013; It hasn't got six strings, but it's a lot of fun.

Tree Goat posted:

it does annoy me a little that so many esperanto names use exonyms https://esperanto.lingolia.com/en/vocabulary/syllables-for-word-formation/countries-nationalities/countries

To be fair, Germans being called dojĉoj instead of germanoj sounds kinda silly, even for Esperantists.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 20:39

Byzantine: Sep 1, 2007

gently caress the franks

# ? Apr 6, 2020 21:06

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

a fatguy baldspot posted:

the only morally correct position re: food is freeganism

Actually the only entirely ethical food you can consume is whatever they're serving at a facility where your stay is involuntary and it's being wholly financed by other people and you're not paying taxes. In this way, you've made no choices about what you're going to consume or what you spend your money on, therefore you've made no moral compromises about what you're eating or how it's produced.

Only certain kinds of old people and prisoners are taking this morally correct position.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 21:31

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

Actually the only entirely ethical food you can consume is whatever they're serving at a facility where your stay is involuntary and it's being wholly financed by other people and you're not paying taxes. In this way, you've made no choices about what you're going to consume or what you spend your money on, therefore you've made no moral compromises about what you're eating or how it's produced.

Only certain kinds of old people and prisoners are taking this morally correct position.

But you�re still making the choice to consume it instead of going bobby sands for the animals

# ? Apr 6, 2020 21:57

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

Quorum posted:

Since it's the map thread and it's apropos:

I tried to find a more granular map of meat consumption in the US, but meat consumption per capita by country maps are way more popular on the Internet. Interestingly, both major urban centers with their concentrated wealth and fresh food availability and rural areas with proximity to meat production predict higher levels of meat consumption, with the exception of Portland-Seattle on the west coast, New England on the east coast, and New Orleans on the gulf coast. I wonder how much of that is seafood availability.

a fatguy baldspot posted:

it�s 100% seafood. we eat a lot. what�s up with that inland patch in texas?

I'm gonna say it isn't seafood related because while yeah New England and the Gulf represent 2/3 of the great seafood Meccas of America?
The Chesapeake bay is the third one, and they're eating the gently caress out of white/red meat apparently.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 22:38

HookShot: Dec 26, 2005

Tree Goat posted:

it does annoy me a little that so many esperanto names use exonyms https://esperanto.lingolia.com/en/vocabulary/syllables-for-word-formation/countries-nationalities/countries

Fair, but at least you still recognize it as being a thing, just a thing that annoys you.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 23:20

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Starks posted:

But you�re still making the choice to consume it instead of going bobby sands for the animals

code:

Listen up brothers and sisters,
Come hear my desperate tale.
I speak of our friends of nature
Trapped in the dirt like a jail.

Vegetables live in oppression,
Served on our tables each night.
This killing of veggies is madness,
I say we take up the fight.

Salads are only for murderers,
Coleslaw's a fascist regime.
Don't think that they don't have feelings
Just 'cause a radish can't scream.

CHORUS:
I've heard the screams of the vegetables, (Scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled. (Having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy. (Burning off calories)
How do you think that feels? (Bet it hurts really bad.)

Carrot juice constitutes murder, (And that's a real crime.)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves. (Let my vegetables go.)
It's time to stop all this gardening. (It's dirty as hell.)
Let's call a spade a spade. (...is a spade, is a spade, is a spade, is a...)

I saw a man eating celery,
So I beat him black and blue.
If he ever touches a sprout again,
I'll bite him clean in two.

I'm a political prisoner,
Trapped in a windowless cage,
'Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips
By killing five men in a rage.

I told the judge when he sentenced me,
"This is my finest hour!
I'd kill those farmers again
Just to save one more cauliflower."

CHORUS

How low as people do we dare to stoop?
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup!
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes,
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!
Wo, wo, wo...
[LIVE VERSION ONLY: No, spare the spud, eat a cow instead!]

I've heard the screams of the vegetables, (Scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled. (Fates in the stir fry are sealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy. (You fat gourmet scum)
How do you think that feels? (Leave them out in the fields.)

Carrot juice constitutes murder, (V-8's genocide.)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves. (Yes, your compost's a grave.)
It's time to stop all this gardening. (Take up macrame.)
Let's call a spade a spade. (...is a spade, is a spade, is a spade...)
Is a spade, is a spade, is a spade.

# ? Apr 7, 2020 00:00

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 8, 2024 06:21

shades of blue: Sep 27, 2012

Guavanaut posted:

Should go back to calling them Dutch (and people from the Netherlands Netherlanders)?

this is actually one of the suspects for why the word german came into usage

# ? Apr 7, 2020 00:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > politically-loaded maps: sputtering flemishly

«‹›2305 »