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Pollyanna posted:Can you use Marmite instead of plain powdered yeast? No; all the cells are long dead as part of the process of making it. Could use it to replace salt in a savoury bread, though, perhaps.
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Apr 5, 2020 04:44
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drat, guess that's my idea for avoiding a yeast shortage dead in the water. I'll see if I can still find some instant yeast.
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Apr 5, 2020 04:49
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Pollyanna posted:drat, guess that's my idea for avoiding a yeast shortage dead in the water. I'll see if I can still find some instant yeast. Worst case scenario, you can make a wild starter. If you have any commercial yeast at all, it’s also easy to just keep a culture of it going (it’ll eventually turn into a sourdough culture, in all likelihood, but, eh).
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Apr 5, 2020 05:16
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Pollyanna posted:drat, guess that's my idea for avoiding a yeast shortage dead in the water. I'll see if I can still find some instant yeast. I got a 1lb thing of SAF yeast for like 20 bucks on ebay. Its a price gouge but its 20 bucks and its a lot of yeast.
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Apr 5, 2020 05:18
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You can just get wild yeast from the skins of grapes, right? If so I can try making a starter from that I guess.
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Apr 5, 2020 06:03
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If your supermarket has beer kits, there would be a packet of beer yeast which you could propagate. Not sure how well it would work for bread though
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Apr 5, 2020 06:10
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Pollyanna posted:You can just get wild yeast from the skins of grapes, right? If so I can try making a starter from that I guess. You can just toss any old fruit in water and you'll have yeast water sooner or later. Add some sugar if you want to get it going faster. Sure, it might turn into wine instead. But what's life without a little tepache bread? actually I have a batch of tepache ready to decant, I'm going to see what happens if I take a little bit of the starter and feed it with flour. First I'll heat it up to get rid of the bromelain of course
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Apr 5, 2020 06:10
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Is the yeast on the fruit, or from somewhere else? I have oranges, does that work?
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Apr 5, 2020 06:14
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There is yeast everywhere. Unless you’re doing something weird, most yeasts in starters come from the flour you use. But is there really a yeast shortage, or did people just buy the local stock?
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Apr 5, 2020 06:15
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mediaphage posted:There is yeast everywhere. Unless you’re doing something weird, most yeasts in starters come from the flour you use. in fact you cannot start sourdough with sterilized flour, it just doesn't work. I've read experiments where they killed the yeast on the flour, and it just turned rotten. The yeast in the air is not what's creating sourdough, it's the yeast in the flour the yeast is coming from inside the starter 
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Apr 5, 2020 06:17
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mediaphage posted:There is yeast everywhere. Unless you’re doing something weird, most yeasts in starters come from the flour you use. But is there really a yeast shortage, or did people just buy the local stock? it's not in my local stores, and we aren't supposed to be shopping around.
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Apr 5, 2020 06:17
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Piss Meridian posted:it's not in my local stores, and we aren't supposed to be shopping around. Yes, as I was asking, is there an actual shortage, or just a local buyout? If it’s the latter, just wait a bit. If it’s the former, which I’m skeptical about, make a sourdough starter. It’s not hard, you literally just mix 1:1 flour:water and let it get bubbly, occasionally refreshing it by taking a spoon and adding it to a new 1:1 mix.
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Apr 5, 2020 06:20
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Oh okay, so I can just mix flour and water and let that yeastify.
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Apr 5, 2020 06:23
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Pollyanna posted:Oh okay, so I can just mix flour and water and let that yeastify. Yeah. Keep it loosely covered, smell it periodically. Once it starts bubbling, you can freshen it periodically by taking a part of the starter and mixing it into a new batch. Yeast will come before the kind of bacteria that make it sour. You may or may not have a smelly period in between. If you have any commercial yeast, you can sprinkle a little in to get things started and have a starter that’s immediately ready to use for leavening.
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Apr 5, 2020 06:29
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Made some milk bread from Josh Weissman's latest memefest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lipLAgZkWN0
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Apr 5, 2020 15:08
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I finally got a good oven spring on my third attempt and was so excited I forgot to check for done-ness and meant to take the top off the lid. But I’m really proud of how quickly I figured out a long sourdough loaf! And it’s still really tasty even though it was slightly under. I don’t have a cast iron Dutch oven, so I used my tri-ply stainless steel. Did 11/12 hour overnight rise. 425F for 30 then 400 for 20. I should have kept in a bit longer. Next time I’ll remember to remove the lid and score it and use my thermometer. Basic beginner mistakes. :X   
cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 19:00
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I only realized far too late that the Serious Eats no knead bread recipe takes multiple days to complete.  The mix is very, very sticky and wet - is it still salvageable if I want to convert it to something I want to finish by the end of the day? Do I just add more flour, or am I stuck with the multi-day wait?E: gently caress it, I'll just make another loaf. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 20:20
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Can I get some advice on my starter? A couple weeks ago I began one, a bit cheaty using some instant yeast, but it's been working as expected and I've just been waiting for it to sour up. I had it in the fridge last week and on friday took it out to feed it, but it doesn't seem to be rising anymore. I've been feeding it twice daily at room temperature since, hoping for it to spring back a bit. There's bubbles and it smells sour, so the lactic bacteria are definitely still alive, but I'm worried about the yeast part of the equation. Googling suggests my starter might also be too runny, but I've been going for 100% hydration by weight since I started and everything seemed fine until recently.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:00
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Tyty posted:Can I get some advice on my starter? A couple weeks ago I began one, a bit cheaty using some instant yeast, but it's been working as expected and I've just been waiting for it to sour up. I had it in the fridge last week and on friday took it out to feed it, but it doesn't seem to be rising anymore. I've been feeding it twice daily at room temperature since, hoping for it to spring back a bit. Looks totally fine to me. When you say feeding it, are you just adding flour, or are you taking a spoon of starter and mixing it into a 1:1 mixture of flour and water? All starters will turn runny after several days, it's the nature of the beast.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:14
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Good to know it looks okay at least. Maybe I'll make a little dough ball and see if that rises.mediaphage posted:When you say feeding it, are you just adding flour, or are you taking a spoon of starter and mixing it into a 1:1 mixture of flour and water? The latter. I'm discarding 2/3rds of it, then adding it back in 1:1 mixture.
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Apr 6, 2020 00:27
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Tyty posted:Good to know it looks okay at least. Maybe I'll make a little dough ball and see if that rises. Yeah, I'd totally try making a little bread with it. Leave it out overnight to rise, if necessary.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:36
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Some cuban rolls for sandwiches. And a general purpose loaf.  I shoulda washed both but ehh.
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Apr 6, 2020 02:05
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LOHF edit: CRUM  (new sourdough starter) Piss Meridian fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 02:36
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 v  v    That was...bread, sort of. I followed this recipe from Serious Eats and frankly, it wasn’t very good. The dough it asked me to make was impossibly sticky and wet, and it asked me to put the loaf on the bottom of the oven, which clearly burned the poo poo out of the bottom. Plus...something is weird about the inside. I like the topskin, the very outside - it’s nice and crunchy. But I hate the inside, it’s very soggy and smells very unlike bread, almost undercooked or something. It reminds me of my attempt at making a pizza... Are there better recipes I should follow? That wasn’t great. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 03:55
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Pollyanna posted:
quote:Meanwhile, set a Dutch oven on the oven's bottom rack and preheat oven to 500°F (260°C)(if your oven has a convection setting, do not use it)
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Apr 6, 2020 04:08
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Yes, the bottom rack is practically at the bottom of the oven.
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Apr 6, 2020 04:18
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How olds your yeast? It looks underproofed and still raw in the middle. A 70% (by weight) hydration dough can definitely be sticky. I’d try again, let it rise until doubled. Turn your oven to 450, put the dutch oven (lid on) on a middle rack, leave the whole thing to preheat for an hour. Oil up a hand (or constantly dip in water) and reach under your dough, gently gripping it and pulling it over the middle of the top, kind of like folding in meringue. Turn the bowl 60-90 degrees and repeat, working your way around until you’ve done a full circle. You may need to re-wet your hand each time. Re-cover and let it rest for 15 minutes in a warm spot. Repeat 2 to 4 more times. High hydration doughs often need extra support to develop structure, and the process can help it along. When ready, your dough should be back to at least as high as before you started with the development, if not a little higher. Slide or pour your dough into the hot dutch oven with as little working it as you can. If it’s super wet, you may not even bother with the slashing, especially if you can’t do it without your blade just sticking. Put the lid on and put it back in the oven. Sometimes I’ll drop the temp to 400 after a few minutes. Leave it for 45 minutes, then check. If it’s started to get a little colour, pop the lid for and let it finish browning uncovered. If you have a decent quick-read thermometer, bake it until the centre registers at least 205°F. The crust should be pretty golden by the point. If you hate working with a super wet, sticky dough, drop it down to 65% (by weight) hydration. It’ll still make great bread.
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Apr 6, 2020 11:59
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Pollyanna posted:Are there better recipes I should follow? That wasn’t great. I would heavily, heavily, suggest grabbing this book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1250018285/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I've never baked bread before and I promise you it makes fantastic bread and is foolproof, even for someone like me. This was my most recent one (4th) from the same batch of dough (my first batch of dough) from the book:  This is just AP flour, yeast, salt and water - nothing fancy. Threw it in my dutch oven at 450 for 15 minutes with the lid on, 20 minutes without. *edit* Also, definitely a yeast shortage here in NYC which is why I've been trying to get my sourdough starter going. I finally got my hands on rye and whole wheat flours so might have to try a new starter soon. Doh004 fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 13:41
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I should get a Dutch oven, then. I ended up covering it in tinfoil as a replacement and I beansed it. The yeast might be dying  it bubbled a little when I fed it and mixed it with water and a little sugar, but maybe not enough. Might be worth trying wild yeast.Or, actually, here’s what I really want to make...naan! https://youtu.be/kA_3gY9rX4Y
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Apr 6, 2020 14:58
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Pollyanna posted:I should get a Dutch oven, then. I ended up covering it in tinfoil as a replacement and I beansed it. If your yeast gets bubbly, it's probably fine. You can boost it by growing some (just mix in some flour and let it sit for a day, then mix that into your bread dough as the yeast requirement). The dutch oven isn't necessarily a requirement; it's really about keeping the dough in a wet, steamy hot environment so that the protocrust reminds moist enough to spring before it gets dried out and hardened. A dutch oven is handy because the lid is so heavy, but if you double over a piece of foil and clamp it down around the edge of the hot pan, it's probably pretty good. The heat capacity of the heavy pot is nice, too. A glass lid can be a decent replacement if you have one.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:12
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I’ve been using grocery store brand active dry yeast packets because that’s been the only thing available. Today I found an 8 oz jar of it. I’m stoked.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:51
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Pollyanna posted:Yes, the bottom rack is practically at the bottom of the oven. Different ovens heat differently. Some electric ovens don't even have a bottom element and others use their top and bottom ovens in different proportions. Gas ovens don't typically have heat from the top. I personally found that to avoid scorching the bottom of my bread inside the dutch oven I need it placed on the middle rack with a baking steel between the dutch oven and the bottom of the oven.
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Apr 6, 2020 17:16
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I was making that very sticky, very gluten-developed sourdough donut recipe. While scraping and folding, I managed to cut my left forefinger. With the bench knife. Which is a hardware-store bench knife, at least 20 years old, and is fricking blunt. Hey, person who recommended the sourdough donut recipe, did you retard the first rise, the rise after shaping the donuts, or both?
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Apr 6, 2020 19:33
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Murgos posted:Different ovens heat differently. Some electric ovens don't even have a bottom element and others use their top and bottom ovens in different proportions. Gas ovens don't typically have heat from the top. You can also put a couple layers of parchment paper on the bottom of the Dutch oven to prevent burning. It works surprisingly well.
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Apr 6, 2020 19:55
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I was going to suggest that, then it occurred to me that it might make the bottom crust not crispy enough. I've been using parchment in my cold-oven breads, and it works very well.
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Apr 6, 2020 19:56
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I have made bread before but it was never “great”. Now, with more time on my hands and having been given a starter what was I to do? Loaf 1 was a success for a first attempt. I slightly over cooked it and the base was a bit thick, but it was good and I was pleased. I was a bit scared of the wet dough, so added more flour (rookie mistake). Loaf 2 was created using higher hydration (about 75%) I managed to resist adding more flour resulting in a very wet dough. As a result the dough struggled to hold its shape and the loaf came out flatter than desirable, but I cut through it and was rewarded with a great loaf of bread which was eaten in one sitting with home made mushroom soup. Loaf 3 was made because some greedy bastards had eaten all of loaf 2. However I started making the poolish a bit late in the day. I reduced the hydration down to just above 70%. Due to the late start and a slightly cooler day the proofing took longer than anticipated and because of beer I thought “gently caress it, I can’t be bothered.” and chucked it in the fridge. The next morning I wasn’t expecting much. I pulled the dough out, shaped it and left it while the oven heated up. The result was stunning. My best loaf yet and I am hooked. Thanks to all the contributors here, your knowledge is awesome and provide amazing motivation. I still have loads to learn, but at least I’ve started. https://imgur.com/gallery/TNgQqKm
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Apr 6, 2020 20:42
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:You can also put a couple layers of parchment paper on the bottom of the Dutch oven to prevent burning. It works surprisingly well. It will prevent sticking, it's not going to prevent burning. To prevent burning you'd have to meaningfully prevent thermal transfer and two sheets of parchment isn't going to do that to a heavy metal pot at the bottom of the oven. Tanglefoot posted:I have made bread before but it was never “great”. Now, with more time on my hands and having been given a starter what was I to do? Those look great! Long, slow ferments often result in the best bread because of increased gluten development, starch hydration, and starch/sugar fermentation/enzymatic cleaving.
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Apr 6, 2020 20:48
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Tanglefoot posted:Loaf 2 was created using higher hydration (about 75%) I managed to resist adding more flour resulting in a very wet dough. As a result the dough struggled to hold its shape and the loaf came out flatter than desirable, but I cut through it and was rewarded with a great loaf of bread which was eaten in one sitting with home made mushroom soup. High hydration dough can sometimes use some extra strength. Bit of slap/folding before the bulk/normal folds and then a really tight preshape before a bench rest and just creating a lot of tension when shaping in general can help out with the flattening.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:07
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I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on a 50 lb bag of King Arthur AP because locally there is nothing left except occasionally generic AP and rarely Gold Medal AP (which is only 10.5% protein IIRC), and online stock doesn't look much better for 5-10 lb bags. No whole wheat flour, bread flour, or high protein flours in general anywhere. Halp.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:08
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mediaphage posted:It will prevent sticking, it's not going to prevent burning. To prevent burning you'd have to meaningfully prevent thermal transfer and two sheets of parchment isn't going to do that to a heavy metal pot at the bottom of the oven. It's not the paper itself, it's the air gap. It does work... give it a try. I'm pretty sure that silicone-impregnated paper has less thermal conductivity than cast iron. So maybe it's both. Either way, it works. Three sheets works even better.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:24
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