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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:This is the easiest time in recorded history to find friends who have nothing to do but play video games. Seriously people need to get on board with this, all those multi games that suck by yourself like GTA:O and battle royals are now fun because I can play with friends since we are all stuck at home. Opinion: the spec-ops mode in modern warfare 2 in split-screen with a couple of friends is one of the best (probably top 5) use of a video game in history and I wish they would remake it or make more of it.
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Apr 6, 2020 23:49
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:I bought Modern Warfare on release and it didn't really click at the time, but a couple of friends from work were bored during the quarantine and got Warzone and holy poo poo. The three of us have been playing plunder together in a static team over 60 hours in the past three weeks and it's been a goddamn blast, and I've been going back and looking at the other modes and it turns out they were awesome too. I wish I had been playing this instead of goddamn Destiny for the past few months. The game was pretty broken at launch and it's substantially better now, so that might explain your experience. The muffled the footsteps so it's not 100% soundwhores crouching in corners, just 75%
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Apr 7, 2020 00:18
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The White Dragon posted:i grew up on console games so i think everything made for pcs during the timeframe from the snes to the ps2 looks ugly hahahahahaha. Oh, wait, are you serious?
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Apr 7, 2020 04:03
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tango alpha delta posted:hahahahahaha. Don't take anything anyone says in this thread seriously. With that in mind: PC RPGs have been better than console RPGs always. There has never been a time when consoles were better. There will never be a time when consoles are better.
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Apr 7, 2020 04:08
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The White Dragon posted:i grew up on console games so i think everything made for pcs during the timeframe from the snes to the ps2 looks ugly Compared to ps2 games? If you rocked a lovely computer during that time that makes sense, but you have PC games from the late 90s looking better then a lot of things that came on out the ps2 and even some ps3 games. Some games even got graphic overhauls so now you can play Deus Ex and it looks like a late 2000s game.
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Apr 7, 2020 04:09
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I thought Deus Ex was considered to look dodgy even at the time.
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Apr 7, 2020 04:22
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Not dodgey, just unimpressive. SS2 was dodgey, and the first Hitman game looked good, for comparison.
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Apr 7, 2020 04:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I thought Deus Ex was considered to look dodgy even at the time. Naw dx looked like crap at the time. Ss2 at least had some nice clunky momentum in its physics, and though the face texturing was terrible it sort of fitted the distorted zombie feel.
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Apr 7, 2020 04:52
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tango alpha delta posted:hahahahahaha. Waltzing Along posted:Don't take anything anyone says in this thread seriously. totally serious Ghost Leviathan posted:I thought Deus Ex was considered to look dodgy even at the time. yeah i look at deus ex and i think man that's ugly as hell. mostly because they were going for realism, ps1 and ps2 games have the same problems when they're trying to go out of their element. like yeah the ps2 is kind of stretching and tbh i consider the best examples to be from the snes and ps1. certainly star ocean 3 is ugly as sin, but wild arms 3 is peak "we understand the limitations of our system and our budget, so we'll make something very stylized that'll still look good in twenty years." but i look at deus ex and see these textures that try to be as realistic as the resolution allowed pasted on block-headed models and it's like, drat you ugly and on the opposite end i think of all the japanese games with pre-rendered or high-res sprite backgrounds and they look like paintings or clay models. hell saga frontier 2 was paintings. this extends to spritework too, where i favor sprites with bold, dark borders and heavy color variation to distinguish details like you get in snes games. i'm just not a fan of western style sprites with soft color borders like you get in zombies ate my neighbors or other various pixel art produced in the west at that time. other people fuckin love it, and little surprise they grew up on commander keen and monkey island. it turns out exposure really colors what aesthetic you like Fur20 fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Apr 7, 2020 |
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Apr 7, 2020 04:59
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Without doing a big deep-dive my gut is that PC gaming got onto the ITS 3D THATS ALL IT NEEDS TO BE earlier than consoles who jumped on the train a couple years later. Since consoles were still weaker even when jumping to 3D systems and happened after PC started doing it, art design was better understood and played more of a part. That said, the Playstation 1 and N64 and Saturn have the absolute basements of the 3D transition era because it turns out when you use weak hardware and no art direction you get Bubsy 3d.
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Apr 7, 2020 05:28
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The White Dragon posted:totally serious I'm not sure you know this, but every console game ever made was created on a computer first. In the old days, we used Silicon Graphics workstations to create games for the N64, because it used similiar Silicon Graphics hardware. Coding in C on a computer worth more than a Ferrari back in the 90's was pretty loving cool. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Apr 7, 2020 |
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Apr 7, 2020 05:36
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MoCapped faces (or whatever you want to call them where they put a real face into a video game) never get the eyes right and for all the effort they put into capturing face motion, the eyes (and eyebrows) rarely narrow/widen correctly to capture realistic face emotions. For this reason, all video games should instead adopt super-stylized face models like the human knight from Warcraft 3 (NOT the remake) where their jaws and eyebrows move like 3 feet around words. Playing Resident Evil 2 (Remake) makes me cringe at the attempt. Fantastic modeling/animation otherwise, but the face is just so odd.
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Apr 7, 2020 05:43
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I'm always reminded of Mega Man Legends and how spriterips reveal that they put an absurd amount of effort into making the cutscene models look good, complete with specific face animation sprites designed to be seen from certain angles. Unfortunately, Western AAA development in particular never really stopped chasing the 'realism' dragon even when it led to ruinous budget inflation for graphics that traditionally look dated after a few years and for characters and plots that are incredibly tedious and cliche.
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Apr 7, 2020 05:49
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tango alpha delta posted:I'm not sure you know this, but every console game ever made was created on a computer first. In the old days, we used Silicon Graphics workstations to create games for the N64, because it used similiar Silicon Graphics hardware. Coding in C on a computer worth more than a Ferrari back in the 90's was pretty loving cool. what it was written on has nothing to do with it; the target hardware is the only thing that matters. there were plenty of devs who overshot on the ps1, look at legend of legaia for a good example, it's got the same problems as deus ex except everyone has anime eyes. they weren't thinking of what would look great per the specs, they were thinking of what would look impressive on paper. my favorite example of this perspective is konami. during the ps1 era, they weren't afraid to use the ps1 to increase the resolution and frames in their sprites, but didn't push the hardware to its limits. load times were short and you don't hear anybody complaining about how symphony of the night is "ugly" today. during the ps2 era, they decided that even high-resolution sprites weren't in line with the next gen image they wanted to project and demanded that everything was polygonal models even if it was ugly or came at the cost of performance. and that's how we got suikoden 3 with models and textures on the level of late-gen ps2 games (that are unimpressive and kind of ugly today), but longer load times than final fantasy 9. they didn't consider the limitations of their hardware and they didn't try to make something that looked good per what they already knew; they tried to meet a weird arbitrary standard of "technically impressive," and ended up with a 60-hour-long turd that drops frames whenever anything more draw-intensive than one person walking happened. ff7 has the same problem, tbh. they tried to make it as technically impressive as possible, but they weren't used to the tech so in the long term the models are butt ugly. ff8 and ff9 look way better because they leaned hard into "let's stylize this so it looks GREAT on this hardware" instead of going all in on something like trying to give their characters modeled waggling jaws
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Apr 7, 2020 06:44
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SS2 was improved by the graphical limitations of its era
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Apr 7, 2020 06:56
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it all boils down to art direction and how the tech fits the specs. The classic example is how Windwaker has barely aged while Twilight Princess looks dodgy. Or how Star Fox looks like poo poo and Yoshi’s Island looks great. You gotta fit the platform and stylise if you can’t reach realistic. Xbox/PS2 era is about as early as you want to go for realistic faces that aren’t weird. Faces and animation were typically still pretty rough until 360/PS3.
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Apr 7, 2020 07:49
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IIRC with the PS1 you'd have devs making a token 3D entry to fill Sony's demands and then otherwise make 2D sprite based games, like Mega Man Legends was for that franchise. (Though it turned out to be pretty good anyway)
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Apr 7, 2020 08:17
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well why not posted:it all boils down to art direction and how the tech fits the specs. Yeah, totally. I get what he's trying to say but there a bunch of PC games from that era that still look pretty good and console games that look like poo poo now. It all just boils down to art direction for sure. I'm still impressed when I look at the original Metal Gear Solid. It's a really good example of knowing the limitations of the tech and working within those confines. To this day it's still quite a nice looking game. I remember showing it to my die hard PC buddy back when it came out and he was like "this game looks like poo poo. Look at those textures". I'd love to stack it up against whatever attempted realistic looking game he was playing on PC in 1998 now. On the other hand I think many of the PC isometric RPGS and adventure games from that era still look great to this day.
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Apr 7, 2020 08:18
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veni veni veni posted:Yeah, totally. I get what he's trying to say but there a bunch of PC games from that era that still look pretty good and console games that look like poo poo now. It all just boils down to art direction for sure. I recall they probably picked Snake's choice of gun because it's basically two polygons. Art design trends really don't help, like how a ton of celebrated PC games from that era are 90% gray concrete or brown bricks. Though then they became all brown and bloom.
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Apr 7, 2020 08:26
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You know, in hindsight, just now, I think I've figured out what Deus Ex (the OG) looks like to people who played it at the time and loved it. Because I played MGS at the time and loved it, and still think it looks really good for a game its age, despite all its blockiness. This thread just altered my whole mindset on a classic game. Thanks.
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Apr 7, 2020 08:45
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Waltzing Along posted:Don't take anything anyone says in this thread seriously. That may be bacause it's impossible to play an RPG on a console.
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Apr 7, 2020 08:53
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I'm not even sure RPG is even an actual genre anymore, but the only trouble I've had with any of them on consoles is lovely ports and bad game design, because it's not that hard to just use a dpad or analog stick to select poo poo in a menu and using mouse clicks to control a character sucks balls compared to just using a controller to move them around. The only genre that doesn't work on consoles is competitive RTS.
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Apr 7, 2020 09:23
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My unpopular gaming opinion is that jrpgs are never good rpgs. They can be very good and fun games, but role playing it ain't.
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Apr 7, 2020 09:28
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PinheadSlim posted:My unpopular gaming opinion is that jrpgs are never good rpgs. They can be very good and fun games, but role playing it ain't. That's because there have been very few CRPGs in general. Probably 10 or fewer. There are RPGish games all over. But actual RPGs? naw.
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Apr 7, 2020 09:30
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Waltzing Along posted:That's because there have been very few CRPGs in general. Probably 10 or fewer. There are RPGish games all over. But actual RPGs? naw. It's true. I've been chasing a high since Might and Magic VI : The Mandate of Heaven that I just haven't reached since 
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Apr 7, 2020 09:32
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PinheadSlim posted:It's true. I've been chasing a high since Might and Magic VI : The Mandate of Heaven that I just haven't reached since Too bad that's not a real RPG.
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Apr 7, 2020 09:34
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PinheadSlim posted:It's true. I've been chasing a high since Might and Magic VI : The Mandate of Heaven that I just haven't reached since Do not play Bard's Tale IV
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Apr 7, 2020 09:38
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I can only think of a few RPGs. Ultima IV Disco Elysium maybe Planescape but I've only played like 30 mins of it. But from what I hear it is. And....that's it. Everything else is just CRPG stuff that has nothing to do with RP and everything to do with D & D dice tropes.
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Apr 7, 2020 09:41
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Waltzing Along posted:I can only think of a few RPGs. Well now I'm curious, what to you is a "real" RPG if Planescape and Ultima count but nothing else does? They're not that unique.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:00
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Waltzing Along posted:That's because there have been very few CRPGs in general. Probably 10 or fewer. There are RPGish games all over. But actual RPGs? naw. lol
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Apr 7, 2020 10:15
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PinheadSlim posted:Well now I'm curious, what to you is a "real" RPG if Planescape and Ultima count but nothing else does? They're not that unique. If you aren't playing a role then it's not a real RPG. In Ultima IV, you can not win the game unless you play the role of the avatar. In Disco Elysium you are free to play whatever role you want. In the m&m games you have D&D stats but it doesn't matter what you do after that. Kill monster, win game. No role-playing. And that applies to pretty much every CRPG. CRPGs and JRPGs are closer to each other, in general, than they are to real RPGs.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:17
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Waltzing Along posted:If you aren't playing a role then it's not a real RPG. Oh, I get it now. You're insane
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Apr 7, 2020 10:24
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PinheadSlim posted:Oh, I get it now. Who isn't?
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Apr 7, 2020 10:28
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PinheadSlim posted:Well now I'm curious, what to you is a "real" RPG if Planescape and Ultima count but nothing else does? They're not that unique. he named his two favourites from when he was a kid and the last one that he played and enjoyed, thats pretty much it
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Apr 7, 2020 10:36
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Kind of weird how RPG came to mean a game with numbers and some degree of abstraction in gameplay when that's not at all what the letters stand for.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:37
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In Call of Duty, you can not win the game unless you play the role of the soldier.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:37
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Furthermore, a JRPG is any RPG from Japan. Dark Souls, Shiren the Wanderer, Puzzles and Dragons, all of these would be classic examples of JRPGs if they were RPGs (which they're not because you don't play a role in them).
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Apr 7, 2020 10:39
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In Skyrim you cannot beat the game unless you play the role of the Dragonborn. But Skyrim is not a true RPG because this is absolutely in no way similar to my favorite childhood game, Ultima IV and the Avatar character. I loving love Ultima IV but that's insane.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:40
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internet celebrity posted:Kind of weird how RPG came to mean a game with numbers and some degree of abstraction in gameplay when that's not at all what the letters stand for. It's because that's the part of D&D that's easy to reproduce in videogame form.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:41
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That's because the guys who made the first jRPGs were entirely inspired by the game "Wizardry" and they very rarely considered changing anything else after that.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:43
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