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mind the walrus posted:I thought the "Bill is Bobby's Dad" thing was debunked. Even then Bobby is pretty detestable in his own right, and I say that as someone who was way more like him as a kid than anyone else on KotH. He's basically Luanne's surrogate dad though, and he SUCKS at it. Like at least with Bobby he tries. He treats Luanne like an annoying obligation.
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Apr 4, 2020 12:17
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Team America: World Police mocking Hans Blix for not being able to find wmds.
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Apr 6, 2020 13:55
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You know, I remember a lot of people hating Lucky back in the day, but looking back...he's actually a pretty decent guy. He's supposed to be the "deadbeat white trash" yet as soon as he finds out he's gonna be a father he proposes to Luanne and buckles down to try and get a real job.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:24
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:You know, I remember a lot of people hating Lucky back in the day, but looking back...he's actually a pretty decent guy. He's supposed to be the "deadbeat white trash" yet as soon as he finds out he's gonna be a father he proposes to Luanne and buckles down to try and get a real job. His job is literally ‘insurance fraud recipient’.
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Apr 6, 2020 15:40
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there is no way at all someone like peggy could keep a secret like bill fathering bobby peggy hill is not known for her sealed-tight lips it took basically everything she had not to narc on nancy and john redcorn, and she has a serious crisis of conscience and a lot of self-loathing from not being hank's first as it is. you really think she wouldn't have asked for three pieces of chocolate from the lady pastor if she'd been riding the billdozer? c'mon.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:03
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:[sub]e: basically why out of all the women in the neighborhood does Bill continually creep on Peggy even though Hank is his best friend in the world? not everything is plot, sometimes it's just a joke trope. bob's burgers did this recently with teddy, the creepy friend to the married protagonists, bob and linda. surprise! teddy is obsessed with their relationship!
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Apr 6, 2020 16:04
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food court bailiff posted:there is no way at all someone like peggy could keep a secret like bill fathering bobby Sold
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Apr 6, 2020 16:12
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luxury handset posted:not everything is plot, sometimes it's just a joke trope. bob's burgers did this recently with teddy, the creepy friend to the married protagonists, bob and linda. surprise! teddy is obsessed with their relationship! That's actually also fitting with KotH; it's Hank that Bill is fixated on, really, he envies Hank's stable and respectable life and relationship. I haven't watched a lot about Bill's past, though apparently him and Lenore had a horrible marriage and fought loudly enough to wake up the neighbourhood. He seems like someone who got by on natural talent and charisma, and when that failed him he had absolutely nothing to fall back on. Bill can accomplish a lot when he's confident, but he so rarely is. Dude needs therapy.
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Apr 6, 2020 16:26
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Captain Monkey posted:His job is literally ‘insurance fraud recipient’. Is that bad?
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Apr 6, 2020 18:13
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That's actually also fitting with KotH; it's Hank that Bill is fixated on, really, he envies Hank's stable and respectable life and relationship. There was an episode that showed Hank and Bill around the time they got out of high school. Hank worships Bill and it's pretty easy to infer that the two had a codependent relationship which turned dependent once Bill's marriage hits the rocks. Hank remembers the guy Bill used to be and Bill latched onto the one guy who used to think he made the sun shine. BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:Physical resemblance has nothing to do with. They were designed before it was likely retconned. It's everything to do with Bill and Peggy's love/hate and Hank's almost certain infertility. Peggy did something she's not proud of and wants to take it to her grave but Bill being Bill won't let it go. My take is like this, only against the idea that Bobby is Bill's kid. It smells like one of those "Homer is secretly Krusty" ideas that was talked around in Season One and jettisoned pretty quickly. Like it makes sense, but not any more than the conventional reading that Bill is a creep and it's pretty clear that if the writers wanted to make more hints they would have. El Gallinero Gros posted:He's basically Luanne's surrogate dad though, and he SUCKS at it. Also true. Hank's visible discomfort with women is also a foible that is noticed a lot but never properly called out because he keeps it just below the surface of being actively harmful most of the time... instead being mostly neglectful. Sunswipe posted:Is that bad? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKw9PVGjMiA
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Apr 6, 2020 19:07
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A lot of Mike Judge stuff when he's on the ball is interesting like that. Has been said that Beavis and Butthead shows you need to put some effort into writing very stupid characters well. Steven Universe also feels like it will age well, although having had to listen to super-fans I've had to bite my tongue a bit. It's very good and even knows how to play things subtle, but it's still a children's cartoon and not a straight-up psychodrama like the hype would have you believe.
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Apr 6, 2020 19:09
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mind the walrus posted:
Like loving a carburetor.
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Apr 7, 2020 08:23
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I've been watching the blu ray of the 1994 Stand miniseries because it suddenly seems relevant again, and man did 1994 not have a problem calling people with developmental disabilities the r-word. Like, I thought it was used by just the evil characters at first, but everyone does it and it's not a slur to them. And Rob Lowe's deaf character gets called "dumb" a lot, although I think that's partially just Stephen King's weird anachronistic 50s slang leaking through. The actual presentation of the developmentally disabled character is not great either and I can't imagine the actor not cringing a little at everything they have him do. One part that aged pretty well is that John Landis plays a murderer who sides with satan, which seems very in-character for him.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:11
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:One part that aged pretty well is that John Landis plays a murderer who sides with satan, which seems very in-character for him.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:24
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I've been watching the blu ray of the 1994 Stand miniseries because it suddenly seems relevant again, and man did 1994 not have a problem calling people with developmental disabilities the r-word. Like, I thought it was used by just the evil characters at first, but everyone does it and it's not a slur to them. Well it didn't used to be. Mentally Retarded was the accepted term, it literally meant a slowed mental growth. Hell it was on signs, THE DOVER HOME FOR THE MENTALLY RETARDED would be right there in green and white on the side of the road, it was fine, right up until it crept into common usage as a disparaging term. You want to see some crazy poo poo look up even older material on working with people with disabilities and see the terms they use: abnormal, feeble-minded, creature, imbecilic, and subnormal.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:39
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Also didn't "Dumb" used to be used to refer to mute, rather than deaf (hence the phrase "Struck Dumb" to mean speechless)? That's weird if it's to describe a deaf guy.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:46
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BioEnchanted posted:Also didn't "Dumb" used to be used to refer to mute, rather than deaf (hence the phrase "Struck Dumb" to mean speechless)? That's weird if it's to describe a deaf guy.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:49
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WaywardWoodwose posted:Well it didn't used to be. Mentally Retarded was the accepted term, it literally meant a slowed mental growth. Hell it was on signs, THE DOVER HOME FOR THE MENTALLY RETARDED would be right there in green and white on the side of the road, it was fine, right up until it crept into common usage as a disparaging term. You want to see some crazy poo poo look up even older material on working with people with disabilities and see the terms they use: abnormal, feeble-minded, creature, imbecilic, and subnormal. Kids who lack broader context will always find common words and turn them into pejoratives. Humorists have noted this for a long time. Rick and Morty practically makes it a sport.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:53
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I feel like the assumption in the show is that deafness entails being mute, but it's a plot point that he can't communicate with the guy from COACH because he's illiterate and Rob Lowe can only communicate by writing things down and apparently not even by sign language, which doesn't seem to exist in the world of the movie. Stephen King's imagination seems super stuck in the 50s. When Corin Nemec transitions from proto-incel to campy supervillain as a result of having sex with Laura San Giacomo, he immediately switches to a white tshirt and leather jacket with jeans. Also everyone is conversant in extremely obscure racial slurs in every one of his books, like to the point where it starts getting suspicious.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:58
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WaywardWoodwose posted:Well it didn't used to be. Mentally Retarded was the accepted term, it literally meant a slowed mental growth. Hell it was on signs, THE DOVER HOME FOR THE MENTALLY RETARDED would be right there in green and white on the side of the road, it was fine, right up until it crept into common usage as a disparaging term. You want to see some crazy poo poo look up even older material on working with people with disabilities and see the terms they use: abnormal, feeble-minded, creature, imbecilic, and subnormal. Wasn't that at least considered in poor taste by the 90s? Like I know it wasn't at slur status, but I feel like kids were told not to say it and that when I was a kid and that it was kind of a leftover from a much earlier time, similar to words like negro or colored. My timeline could be off though, or colored by a sheltered childhood.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:02
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I feel like the assumption in the show is that deafness entails being mute, but it's a plot point that he can't communicate with the guy from COACH because he's illiterate and Rob Lowe can only communicate by writing things down and apparently not even by sign language, which doesn't seem to exist in the world of the movie.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:04
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Stephen King's imagination seems super stuck in the 50s. When Corin Nemec transitions from proto-incel to campy supervillain as a result of having sex with Laura San Giacomo, he immediately switches to a white tshirt and leather jacket with jeans. Also everyone is conversant in extremely obscure racial slurs in every one of his books, like to the point where it starts getting suspicious. Greasers were apparently Stephen King's biggest childhood fear.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:09
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Wasn't that at least considered in poor taste by the 90s? Like I know it wasn't at slur status, but I feel like kids were told not to say it and that when I was a kid and that it was kind of a leftover from a much earlier time, similar to words like negro or colored. My timeline could be off though, or colored by a sheltered childhood. This seems definitely correct to me. I grew up in the 80s and it wasn't something I was saying around adults even then. We were awful kids so of course we said it, but knew enough not to do it in front of parents and teachers. At some point we kids started using the word "Sped" instead - thinking it was a different way of saying "retarded" that wasn't as bad. Of course I proceeded to use "sped" in a class once (probably 1981/2 or so) and getting talked to by the teacher for it.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:17
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Our local one in the 90s was reet-reet which I never heard outside a 20 mi radius of my hometown.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:26
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I used to hear "re-re" thrown around as a substitute.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:28
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Yeah it wasn't until like late 2000s, early 2010s that the r word became a mainstream slur. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F71MkjhIOT8
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Apr 7, 2020 18:29
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There’s Something about Mary considered the word a bad thing
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Apr 7, 2020 18:35
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Pick posted:Our local one in the 90s was reet-reet which I never heard outside a 20 mi radius of my hometown. When I was in middle school, one guy decided to use "corky" and it took off in my middle school for all of 7th and 8th grade.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:36
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Push El Burrito posted:Yeah it wasn't until like late 2000s, early 2010s that the r word became a mainstream slur.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:50
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The Stand was written in 1978 and originally took place in 1980, then recon'd to 1985 with the paperback version, and then changed again to 1990 in the expanded edition. But most of the language is still stuck in 1978. But its Stephen King's 1978, so really 1958. King also did a poo poo job of updating large parts of the book to reflect his inexplicable need to advance the calendar with each revision. So Larry tries to get an ambulance by calling the hospital instead of 911. A couple of survivors later enjoy some brews with pop-tops. Stupid poo poo. I can forgive the lack of sign language though. It's entirely possible none of the survivors knew sign language. Or maybe one of them did and just enjoyed watching Nick pantomiming his way through life.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:57
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King's sensibility really seems stuck in the 50s, like you said. Like I don't think adults even in 1980 would consider a deaf person some kind of freak and feel driven to bully him, but it happens to Nick constantly until he hooks up with Tom Cullen, and then King just assumes that it's natural these two miserable, hounded outcasts who could never have a normal life will of course become friends for life because they have each finally found a kindred spirit. He seems to use the construction of the "small town" to do a lot of work for him in creating the insular cultures he presents, but a lot of the time he can't be drawing on anything other than his boomer experience of growing up in Maine.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:24
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oldpainless posted:There’s Something about Mary considered the word a bad thing I mean, it was always an insult so kind of the point was that it was bad?
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Apr 7, 2020 19:40
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Iron Crowned posted:Greasers were apparently Stephen King's biggest childhood fear. Sometimes They Come Back is loving hilarious from this perspective. The bookish, bullied nerd grows up to be a successful man but the greasers from high school come back from the dead to own him some more
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Apr 7, 2020 19:48
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"Retard" was the pejorative, but "retarded" was the clinical term for the longest time. The state agency was MHMR - mental health/mental retardation, and a place that was an advocacy group was called the ARC - Association for Retarded Citizens. That was up to around 1990 or so. I changed states after that so I don't know what they changed to, if anything. "Moron", "idiot" and "imbecile" were clinical terms for different levels of developmental deficiencies. But yeah, kids (and a lot of adults) will take any term relating to the condition and use it. Luckily, "dolt" is still accepted.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:55
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MrUnderbridge posted:"Moron", "idiot" and "imbecile" were clinical terms for different levels of developmental deficiencies. don't forget "donkey-brained"
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Apr 7, 2020 19:57
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MrUnderbridge posted:"Retard" was the pejorative, but "retarded" was the clinical term for the longest time. The state agency was MHMR - mental health/mental retardation, and a place that was an advocacy group was called the ARC - Association for Retarded Citizens. That was up to around 1990 or so. I changed states after that so I don't know what they changed to, if anything. This is one of the canonical examples of the euphemism treadmill .
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Apr 7, 2020 20:17
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MrUnderbridge posted:"Retard" was the pejorative, but "retarded" was the clinical term for the longest time. The state agency was MHMR - mental health/mental retardation, and a place that was an advocacy group was called the ARC - Association for Retarded Citizens. That was up to around 1990 or so. I changed states after that so I don't know what they changed to, if anything.. It's still called MHMR here in DFW, Texas
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Apr 7, 2020 20:22
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I feel like the assumption in the show is that deafness entails being mute, but it's a plot point that he can't communicate with the guy from COACH because he's illiterate and Rob Lowe can only communicate by writing things down and apparently not even by sign language, which doesn't seem to exist in the world of the movie. I don’t think of him as the guy from Coach but rather the guy who voices Patrick Star.
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Apr 7, 2020 20:39
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:I don’t think of him as the guy from Coach but rather the guy who voices Patrick Star. I knew about Mr. Crabs but loving what!? How did I not know this?
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Apr 7, 2020 20:41
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hawowanlawow posted:don't forget "donkey-brained" Nah I got this certificate that says I don't have it.
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Apr 7, 2020 20:53
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