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I think, more than anything, this is the action that best preserves FF7. A full-on remake, even with a few changes, would have basically replaced the original FF7, the same way nobody really plays the original NES FF1 anymore, they play one of the myriads of remakes or ports. Obviously there's people who do, but if a fifteen year old goes up to you and asks which version of FF1 to play because they wanna experience the starting point for their favorite MMO, FF14, you aren't gonna tell them to play the original NES game. This is an action that makes the original FF7 viable and interesting material for an entirely new generation while creating something that supplements it and acts as an inroad to it. If you think the original FF7 is a masterpiece then isn't that an ideal scenario?
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Apr 7, 2020 10:32
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Endorph posted:I think, more than anything, this is the action that best preserves FF7. A full-on remake, even with a few changes, would have basically replaced the original FF7, the same way nobody really plays the original NES FF1 anymore, they play one of the myriads of remakes or ports. Obviously there's people who do, but if a fifteen year old goes up to you and asks which version of FF1 to play because they wanna experience the starting point for their favorite MMO, FF14, you aren't gonna tell them to play the original NES game. I've also pointed out that the changes made have essentially re-created the emotional response from events like finishing Midgar, or the Mystery of Sephiroth, or Aerith's death. While not literally the same content, it's emotionally hitting the same beats. No one can make the joke "Spoiler: Aerith Dies" because... no one knows if she will. No one knows what's up with Sephiroth now.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:47
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Harrow posted:Square really is playing with fire here a bit. I mean, think about just how anticipated this is, how excited people were for a remake of Final Fantasy VII believing that it would be faithful to the original, after years and years of people hoping this day would one day come. And even though we all thought it would be terrible, the E3 2019 gameplay reveal and the demo showed that actually it seems like it's going to be good, holy poo poo! To be fair, if the US had sane copyright laws, there's a ton of developers who would've loved to give us just FF7 with better graphics, animations and voice acting, making SE's venture into crazyville a lot less abrasive.
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Apr 7, 2020 10:56
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Onmi posted:I've also pointed out that the changes made have essentially re-created the emotional response from events like finishing Midgar, or the Mystery of Sephiroth, or Aerith's death. Yeah. The only issue is that some people will be so hung up on the idea of literally just FF7 again that hey won't really let themselves go to embrace that. Which... ironically also fits FF7. The idea of someone stubbornly clinging onto something they want rather than what's probably best, that sort of thing. Not that an entire overhaul/remake of FF7 with just expanded content would have been bad but it'd definitely run the risk of completely replacing FF7, and I'm sure there's changes they would have made in that scenario that people would have disliked.
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Apr 7, 2020 11:01
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Harrow posted:I'm expecting some truly apocalyptic nerdrage here. Probably not as widespread as The Last Jedi rage but I'm betting it'll be more intense and longer-lasting. And don't get me wrong, it'll be dumb as gently caress, but oh boy. Hardcore FFVII fans got built up so high and there's gonna be a very sudden drop. You only need to check the GameFAQs board for FF7R. Granted, that place has some of the most fervent and devoted fans next to the dedicated FF fan communities, but the reaction there is not unanimous praise.
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Apr 7, 2020 11:16
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Watching a video on the Honeybee Inn sequence, I don't even care how dumb the overarching plot proves to be. This kind of fun nonsense is exactly what the series needs. Miss me with the crushing, soulless melodrama and unceasing flood of proper nouns. I want that spikey haired blonde dork on a stage dancing his heart out while Aeris loses her mind over it. Also the Time Ghosts kidnapping Hojo look like the ones from 6's Phantom Train and that's neat.
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Apr 7, 2020 11:33
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Endorph posted:I think, more than anything, this is the action that best preserves FF7. A full-on remake, even with a few changes, would have basically replaced the original FF7, the same way nobody really plays the original NES FF1 anymore, they play one of the myriads of remakes or ports. Obviously there's people who do, but if a fifteen year old goes up to you and asks which version of FF1 to play because they wanna experience the starting point for their favorite MMO, FF14, you aren't gonna tell them to play the original NES game. FF1's remakes have improved the gameplay, not completely changed it. FFVIIR could be the greatest game of all time and a 1:1 recrreation in terms of story but I don't like the new combat and miss the original turn-based gameplay. As such, it can't ever truly replace FFVII. I'm not digging on the game, just saying my preferences.
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Apr 7, 2020 11:37
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That's what they said essentially. FF7 still exists and got a remaster(cleaned up a bit) and released on literally every platform. it's not being touched it will always exist. There is a modern and easily playable version of that classic experience. This is something new a new experience and it seems to explicitly be shooting for something different
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Apr 7, 2020 11:48
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I'd there somewhere to see a summary of the changes? It's difficult to parse through a whole thread especially when SE is dripping the hammer on most of the videos linked.
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Apr 7, 2020 13:12
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Nail Rat posted:I'd there somewhere to see a summary of the changes? It's difficult to parse through a whole thread especially when SE is dripping the hammer on most of the videos linked. Here's my summary: At one point in the game you smack Rude's sunglasses off his face and break them. He reaches into his pocket and reveals a second pair of sunglasses, which he puts on.
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Apr 7, 2020 13:18
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ErrEff posted:You only need to check the GameFAQs board for FF7R hard pass my dude
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Apr 7, 2020 14:28
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JBP posted:Here's my summary: Hell yes
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Apr 7, 2020 14:36
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Here's an important question: Is there a Tifa slapfight minigame
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Apr 7, 2020 15:13
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CharlestonJew posted:Here's an important question: Is there a Tifa slapfight minigame That was late Disc 2 at least, so you've got a while yet.
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Apr 7, 2020 15:46
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JBP posted:Here's my summary: yeah iunno why people think the second game's gonna be a humorless pit when 90% of this game is played as comedy
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Apr 7, 2020 15:47
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Endorph posted:yeah iunno why people think the second game's gonna be a humorless pit when 90% of this game is played as comedy And that just makes the horrifying parts even more horrifying. That tonal whiplash catches you off guard.
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Apr 7, 2020 15:56
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To me it kind of kills my interest. Some parts of the game look fun. But having to introduce some alternate reality crap? Its just overdone. And to me it takes some of the impact off things. Its harder to be invested in whats going on if its not real if that makes sense. And if they are undoing some of the more dramatic scenes from the story using that device. But it looks like they might have got a lot of the little stuff right at least. And thats cool. But i cant play it cause its only on ps4.
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Apr 7, 2020 17:17
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I absolutely do not know what you mean by "it's not real" Within the confine of the video game's story all of this is happening. "Well it's not the original FFVII storyline" doesn't matter because you're not getting any more things set in the 'original''s timeline.
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Apr 7, 2020 18:42
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Yeah the meta stuff is a bit weird but like adaptations of old things changing stuff up is like. A fundamental part of stories? See king Arthur. Or Sherlock Holmes. Or any given folktale that gets infinite retellings and variations. They aren't less real, that's insane mate.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:03
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they say in an interview a while back that they consider the Remake to be its own canon anyway? Like even without this whole "changing fate" aspect and the potential for multiple timelines, they were already setting up the idea that the FF7 Remake would have its own canon separate from the original's.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:13
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Playing around with the metatextual implications of taking a fatalistic approach to narrative/source material is actually a lot of fun and involves themes you usually only see explored in science fiction media like 12 Monkeys. The idea that it's "overdone" in video games seems like an odd opinion to have. It's just that in this case the Novikov self-consistency principle is made manifest by punchable ghosts rather than boulders falling on people or whatever.
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 7, 2020 |
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Apr 7, 2020 19:23
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The only other game I can think of with a big meta-textual thing to say about sequels and remakes is Metal Gear Solid 2.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:26
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This "you can't change fate" stuff really all comes out of Oedipus Rex, but it's all over the place in film -- The Butterfly Effect, The Adjustment Bureau, Total Recall, Final Destination, Terminator, etc.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:35
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On one hand, it would be kind of stupid in the next game if Aeris still dies and Zack is still dead considering this game's finale with defying fate, but on the other hand it would be funny as hell if all this speculation comes to naught.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:39
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Sephiroth dropping down to stab Aeris only to get homerun derby'd by a buster sword is exactly what the world needs right now
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Apr 7, 2020 |
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Apr 7, 2020 19:40
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Changing fate is a major theme? Bold of Nomura to rip off the Terminator franchise like that
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Apr 7, 2020 19:44
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I'd expect whether Aerith dies or not to be a major point because her sacrifice directly leads to the world being saved in the original. If she doesn't die, Meteor can't be stopped in the same way (or maybe at all) so either she has to die (maybe in a different/surprising way?) or we're veering wildly off course.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:45
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Harrow posted:I'd expect whether Aerith dies or not to be a major point because her sacrifice directly leads to the world being saved in the original. If she doesn't die, Meteor can't be stopped in the same way (or maybe at all) so either she has to die (maybe in a different/surprising way?) or we're veering wildly off course. I thought she summoned Holy and then got killed, no connection.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:46
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I thought she summoned Holy and then got killed, no connection. Holy fails to stop Meteor, though, and it's heavily implied that Aerith's will in the Lifestream is what causes it to come out of the Planet and destroy Meteor when Holy fails. If Aerith isn't dead, that won't happen.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:47
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Harrow posted:I'd expect whether Aerith dies or not to be a major point because her sacrifice directly leads to the world being saved in the original. If she doesn't die, Meteor can't be stopped in the same way (or maybe at all) so either she has to die (maybe in a different/surprising way?) or we're veering wildly off course. aeris turns to sephiroth's side and rides meteor down as it hits the planet like the end of dr strangelove
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Apr 7, 2020 19:47
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Sephiroth dropping down to stab Aeris only to get homerun derby'd by a buster sword is exactly what the world needs right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vvkssNx5oc&t=128s
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Apr 7, 2020 19:48
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Harrow posted:Holy fails to stop Meteor, though, and it's heavily implied that Aerith's will in the Lifestream is what causes it to come out of the Planet and destroy Meteor when Holy fails. If Aerith isn't dead, that won't happen. they can just spirit bomb that poo poo instead
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Apr 7, 2020 19:48
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I just don't see how Aeris dying gave her any magical ghost talking power she didn't already have before she died though.
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Apr 7, 2020 19:49
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sephiroth appears above aeris to stab her and she grabs his sword and redirects it into cloud's abdomen instead and she and sephiroth make out next to cloud's corpse
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Apr 7, 2020 19:50
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Blockhouse posted:The only other game I can think of with a big meta-textual thing to say about sequels and remakes is Metal Gear Solid 2. Isn't Metal Gear Solid itself a remake of Metal Gear commenting on itself? It's always been kind of Kojima's MO to comment on these things, to varying success. Pathologic 2 was a very recent game with the whole structure of presentation being as another play that's getting stale. It also had the most succinct take on remakes and sequels I'd seen in a while in the form of discussing the town by Isodor Burakh: “To face the future is the way of love. To face the past is the way of love. But the two are incompatible and it broke my heart.”
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Apr 7, 2020 19:50
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If we're doing speculation for the next game, I'm guessing we get a split party at one point. Cloud on one side. Zack on the other. Maybe Yuffie and Vincent roll with Zack?
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Apr 7, 2020 19:52
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P sure Aeris is one of the few characters who don't consider Sephiroth hot
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Apr 7, 2020 19:54
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Gologle posted:P sure Aeris is one of the few characters who don't consider Sephiroth hot it won't be meteor this time, but Jessie catching a glimpse of Sephiroth that unleashes a world-threatening thirst
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Apr 7, 2020 19:56
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Gologle posted:I just don't see how Aeris dying gave her any magical ghost talking power she didn't already have before she died though. I don't think it was ever really stated one way or the other in any FFVII media but I thought it was implied that it was her being within the Lifestream that let her command it on that scale. But that could just be me over-interpreting a game I don't remember ultra-clearly. Really, though, I'm just speculating on a meta, thematic level. Aerith dying is a crucial part of the original game's emotional core, something very personal to Kitase, and definitely something that will be a major source of drama in a remake where the possibility of changing fate is a major plot element. I guess my thought is that by far the most dramatic way for the question of her death to be answered in this version is for her to die, but at a different time and in a different way, so it's still a shock. Maybe she'll appear to be saved but she has a glimpse of the future and knows that she has to die for the Planet to be saved so she dies in a different, even more tragic way, or something like that. poo poo, maybe a Jenova-possessed Zack kills her this time. Or maybe she'll live this time, I dunno. Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Apr 7, 2020 |
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Apr 7, 2020 19:57
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Harrow posted:I don't think it was ever really stated one way or the other in any FFVII media but I thought it was implied that it was her being within the Lifestream that let her command it on that scale. But that could just be me over-interpreting a game I don't remember ultra-clearly. Ehhhh I dunno so much about FF7 having an "emotional core". It was a plot twist to be sure, but I don't know if FF7 even had a cohesive narrative, much less one in which that plot development would be integral.
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Apr 7, 2020 20:00
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