|
karthun posted:Money is not real but gently caress anyone who demands privatization of fundamental government services like education and healthcare. Debt forgiveness only for students from public universities. gently caress means testing
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:08 |
|
|
It seems like there's two imperfect decisions here that are each morally justifiable depending on your personal framework. Oh well, better yell at each other for another 100 pages.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:03
|
|
|
PeterCat posted:Well, you're ignoring direct evidence of the attitudes of the man you want to be president. The democratic party will definitely do a complete 180 and vote to cut those programs because Biden made a stupid centrist vote in a completely different political era. I had NOT considered this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:03
|
|
|
How are u posted:Remember when you made a big to-do about quitting these lovely forums that just don't get you and permanently moving to some splitter forum where true leftists could post praxis in peace? It's probably not a big enough soapbox for her.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:03
|
|
|
How are u posted:Remember when you made a big to-do about quitting these lovely forums that just don't get you and permanently moving to some splitter forum where true leftists could post praxis in peace? They're asking a valid question.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:03
|
|
|
PeterCat posted:Trump is better on trade (Biden helped pass NAFTA), foreign policy (his handling of the Middle East has been better than Biden's), and Trump doesn't seem to care about the debt and deficit and won't cut Social Security and Medicare in the name of "Fiscal Responsibility." This is so delusional it's funny. Trump has fully backed up Saudi Arabia in it's war with Yemen and hosed around with Iran which is likely to get the two both in a nuclear arms race, and backed Israel and Netanyahu fully and openly inflaming tensions. Trump absolutely will cut Medicare and Medicaid both in general and specifically defunding poo poo like Planned Parenthood. Trump consistently goes along with what Republicans in the Senate want, and they absolutely want to finally nip the Great Society and New Deal programs in the bud and so does the Republican base, as long as they continue to get theirs. Trade is even more hosed up because all he's done has been thrashing around and loving up American manufacturing. The only people who like Trump trade policies are the ones getting tariff waivers because they love it when the government picks the winners, and those people are die hard Republicans. Manufacturing was already in a serious downturn in the US even prior to the virus hitting, with all those steel workers who thought things were going to be great finding out that their customers are getting hammered internationally and can't compete. Uncle Wemus posted:I hear moderate Republicans are open to voting for rapists. Republicans reliably voting for their lesser evil is why the country is where it is and why they still control the courts. They happily showed up even to vote for Trump because there was a SCOTUS seat on the line. There isn't a path forward for any progressive policy if SCOTUS goes 6-3 or worse, not even at the state and local level. Voter suppression and outright fraud isn't going to just go away on it's own nor are it's architects.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:04
|
|
|
paperwind posted:I see a bunch of the shitlibs are still in here trying to make the case why one rapist is only marginally better than the other. What's the alternative?! We worked and worked and tried as hard as we could do establish the greater good option. It didn't work this time but we made substantial inroads and built a leftist movement stronger than its been in decades. We're doing the work to make a better future happen and the fight surely continues, but at the present moment, we are faced with a choice of "fascist" or "not fascist". That choice is an extremely easy one, from where I'm sitting. And once Biden is president we can poo poo on him relentlessly in hopes of making him better, then primary him in 2024 with someone who actually deserves to be President
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:04
|
|
|
Jarmak posted:No not really, not when the only alternative choice is a different and far worse rapist. well this is not true, there are going to be other candidates on the ballot
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:04
|
|
|
sit on my Facebook posted:What's the alternative?! We worked and worked and tried as hard as we could do establish the greater good option. It didn't work this time but we made substantial inroads and built a leftist movement stronger than its been in decades. We're doing the work to make a better future happen and the fight surely continues, but at the present moment, we are faced with a choice of "fascist" or "not fascist". That choice is an extremely easy one, from where I'm sitting. And once Biden is president we can poo poo on him relentlessly in hopes of making him better, then primary him in 2024 with someone who actually deserves to be President There is a 0% chance the party allows Biden to get meaningfully primaried, and about a 98% chance that he loses reelection
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
ITT we have to explain why actually, Trump is bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:05
|
|
|
Arist posted:gently caress means testing That's not means testing. Rich and poor people all get free public education and their previous debts from public education forgiven. Education is a fundamental government services and we should not spend one penny supporting the privatization of it and those who demand the privatization of it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
I'm concerned with who Biden will choose as his running mate. I have a feeling he may get 25th'd. Or maybe that's just a dream.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
I suppose I could hold my nose and vote for Biden simply because I don't think he is going to be alive or mentally competent by Jan 2021. I kind-of-not-kidding expect a weekend at bernie's situation with all addresses coming in video form and every interview appearing mysteriously formulaic. Like I hate Biden, but I'm not sure Biden will have anything to do with a Biden presidency.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:06
|
|
|
marshmonkey posted:ITT we have to explain why actually, Trump is bad. Everyone knows trump is bad. You have to do better than this. karthun posted:That's not means testing. Rich and poor people all get free public education and their previous debts from public education forgiven. Education is a fundamental government services and we should not spend one penny supporting the privatization of it and those who demand the privatization of it. Then we should loving abolish private universities first.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
ColonelMuttonchops posted:This is the correct view, honestly. I'm going in to vote for state reps and whatever local issues come up in the next few months, I'm just not going to fill in the box that says "rapist" next to it. I've voted in every major election since 2000 and three times now I've left the top spot on the ballot blank (2004 and two midterms where my state's gubernatorial election was between two corrupt assholes). Of course, I live in a deep red part of a blue state where the Dem will always get 60% for President and all my local officeholders will always be chuds, so it truly does not matter whether I vote or for whom. I don't know what my point is, exactly, but berating people over their voting choices and browbeating them about the lesser of two evils is not a winning strategy. And it never will be. It's just going to lead to turnout that's lower year over year. Joe Biden is probably gonna win this November, and we'll probably get four years of damage control before some fascist beats him in 2024. Congratulations, I guess that's an improvement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
marshmonkey posted:ITT we have to explain why actually, Trump is bad. No one needs convincing as to why Trump is bad ITT. People ITT are wanting an explanation as to why actually, Biden is good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
Arist posted:There is a 0% chance the party allows Biden to get meaningfully primaried, and about a 98% chance that he loses reelection A key thing to note here is that this is entirely speculative, while the harm being done to the weak and vulnerable by trump and the currently empowered fascists is demonstrable reality
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:07
|
|
|
marshmonkey posted:The democratic party will definitely do a complete 180 and vote to cut those programs because Biden made a stupid centrist vote in a completely different political era. I had NOT considered this. And then the same man tried to cut the programs again during the Obama administration, or do you not remember the Grand Bargain?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:09
|
|
|
LeeMajors posted:It’s weird that you think it’s unreasonable to be pissed about being hamstrung into choosing between two old conservative white rapists. I dont think anyone here had Biden as their choice of candidate, did they? Everyone here is pissed about this choice as far as I know. None of us feel good right now. quote:You got what you wanted—stop crying that Bernie supporters aren’t enthused about your relic candidate. Nobody here got what they wanted. You guys are raging against figments of your imaginations.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:09
|
|
|
sit on my Facebook posted:What's the alternative?! We worked and worked and tried as hard as we could do establish the greater good option. It didn't work this time but we made substantial inroads and built a leftist movement stronger than its been in decades. We're doing the work to make a better future happen and the fight surely continues, but at the present moment, we are faced with a choice of "fascist" or "not fascist". That choice is an extremely easy one, from where I'm sitting. And once Biden is president we can poo poo on him relentlessly in hopes of making him better, then primary him in 2024 with someone who actually deserves to be President We will return to this exact same dillemma in 2024, except with a Democratic candidate slightly to the right of Biden, and an even worse Republican. This is going to continue as infinitum until this country finally dies, either from its own internal rot, or the external forces of the rona or climate change do it for us. Continuing to play this stupid presidential electoral game is only drawing out the pain of the death of our empire.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:09
|
|
|
marshmonkey posted:https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1248266180579770376 Biden at 4% with republicans lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
Doctor Butts posted:I'm concerned with who Biden will choose as his running mate. He's publicly expressed interested in his running mate being a Republican and a woman. I can only hope his handlers can jangle some car keys in his face long enough to stop him from reaching across the aisle on this one.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
PeterCat posted:Are you one of the people who think that making Amazon pay taxes will only increase the cost to consumers? https://www.nytimes.com./interactive/2019/business/economy/trade-war-costs.html quote:Muammar Mohammed Abu Minyar Gaddafi says "hi." So how is this Trump doing "better"? quote:Much easier for the Democrats to fight against it when it's Trump proposing it than Biden. How? Trump being reelected means the GOP also holds the Senate. If the Dems hold all of congress, there's nothing they need to do to "fight" Biden except simply not introduce legislation he wants. That's besides the fact, of course, that he isn't at all advocating for cutting Social Security right now. Trump absolutely has been.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
Cafe Barbarian posted:I dont think anyone here had Biden as their choice of candidate, did they? Everyone here is pissed about this choice as far as I know. None of us feel good right now. The only people who seem to be raging are posters demanding that Biden be voted for because Trump is bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:11
|
|
|
"We should actually let Trump have 4 more years to entrench Republcan power in this country. Surely THAT is what the progressive movement needs." --this thread
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:12
|
|
|
FuturePastNow posted:I don't know what my point is, exactly, but berating people over their voting choices and browbeating them about the lesser of two evils is not a winning strategy. Maybe it’s me but I don’t see this? In fact all I see is the opposite. Vote for who you want to vote for. Unsatisfied with how the primary ended? Hey me too. But you have your own choice: hold your nose and vote for the dem nominee, vote for another party’s candidate, or write your own in. Whatever you choose that’s fine. But the clusterfuck of pages all day has been people upset that Bernie lost and yelling at the world because of it. Meanwhile the country is being mismanaged but the GOP and people are dying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:13
|
|
|
It's too early for polling etc etc but since we're fully in the throes of electoralismchat: https://mobile.twitter.com/MonmouthPoll/status/1248280385760493570 That 28 point gap is in line with 2012's 25 point gap and a marked improvement on Hillary's 39 point shellacking. White college grads, meanwhile, were +4 for Trump and McCain and +14 for Romney, enough of a shift that I'm suspicious of the accuracy. +4 edge to Biden among RVs. As it comes to favorability: Biden -1 (41/42), Trump -8 (42/50), and Sanders -8 (38/46) As a caveat, Monmouth continues doing a great job of finding different types of white respondents and a trash job with all other segments.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:14
|
|
|
BigBallChunkyTime posted:"We should actually let Trump have 4 more years to entrench Republcan power in this country. Surely THAT is what the progressive movement needs." The Democratic establishment made the decision to give Trump a second term by coronating Biden, not a few leftists goons posting in this thread. Hope this helps.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:14
|
|
|
Meridian posted:The Democratic establishment made the decision to give Trump a second term by coronating Biden, not a few leftists goons posting in this thread. Hope this helps. By establishment you mean primary voters?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
BigBallChunkyTime posted:"We should actually let Trump have 4 more years to entrench Republcan power in this country. Surely THAT is what the progressive movement needs." I think the people who would be responsible for giving Trump four more years are those who chose such a flaming disaster of a candidate to attract votes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
Meridian posted:The Democratic establishment made the decision to give Trump a second term by coronating Biden, not a few leftists goons posting in this thread. Hope this helps. This is both likely true and utterly irrelevant to the question of "should you vote for Joe Biden if you live in a swing state in 2020"
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
FallenGod posted:He's publicly expressed interested in his running mate being a Republican and a woman. Say hello to VP Susan Collins, because she needs to escape from her horrible loss in November.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:16
|
|
|
Meridian posted:The Democratic establishment made the decision to give Trump a second term by coronating Biden, not a few leftists goons posting in this thread. Hope this helps. There are people in this thread literally arguing that we should let Trump have a second term because Biden is bad. Hope this helps.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
Pervis posted:This is so delusional it's funny. Trump has fully backed up Saudi Arabia in it's war with Yemen and hosed around with Iran which is likely to get the two both in a nuclear arms race, and backed Israel and Netanyahu fully and openly inflaming tensions. Trump absolutely will cut Medicare and Medicaid both in general and specifically defunding poo poo like Planned Parenthood. Trump consistently goes along with what Republicans in the Senate want, and they absolutely want to finally nip the Great Society and New Deal programs in the bud and so does the Republican base, as long as they continue to get theirs. Biden has claimed credit for overseeing the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, which left the country extremely vulnerable when ISIS rose and took over the western half of the country. Daesh was a direct result of the Obama administration's mishandling of the Syrian civil war, or do you not remember when Obama backed down after drawing a line in the sand against Assad and then did nothing when it was crossed? Obama surged troops into Afghanistan and failed to find a solution to our war there. The Trump administration seems to be working towards an eventual withdrawal, which will leave the Taliban in control, but that was always going to happen anyway. As far as US support for Saudi Arabia goes, this has never not been the case, and the Yemen war started in 2015 while Biden was VP. He didn't speak out against it then. And need I remind you that Biden voted in favor of invading Iraq? As far as the steel workers go, Trump's policies have caused modernization and reinvestment in that industry, even if it is happening in starts and fits. So tell me how the damage a Pro-Life, fiscally conservative, militarily adventurous Democratic administration is going to be easier to fix than what Trump does?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
Accelerationism will work if we let things get worse, this time!! *mass graves in NYC parks* well I mean obviously it'll need to get worse than thiiiiis 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
I think we're in the same place we were near the 2016 election where a whole shitload of people weren't enthused about voting for Clinton and a whole bunch of words went back and forth regarding it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:18
|
|
|
Arist posted:Everyone knows trump is bad. You have to do better than this. I am all for the destruction of all privatized educational institutions but that's not what the goal of the All Students Loans Should be Forgiven movement is.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:18
|
|
|
Once the gulags start and our biometric data is being forcibly harvested to sell to Amazon for their new patented In-Brain Targeted Advertising, then, THEN the left shall rise up!
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
I live in a deep blue state without all that many electoral votes that won't even have its primary for two more months, so I never even got to vote for my favored candidate before he dropped out. My vote doesn't matter in about fourteen different ways. Stop acting like it matters if I don't vote for Biden.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:08 |
|
|
I'm still very new to following politics, so I'm also quite naive in a lot of aspects, but why don't we/how possible is it to start our own lobbying group to represent the normal people? There are so many lobbying groups from corporate interests and really only work to benefit corporations (unsurprisingly) and the rich who benefit from corporations. Why doesn't someone create a lobbying group to push for public benefits like UBI, M4A, and student debt relief? We could call it the Good Of Our Nation lobbying group. I realize money is probably one of the obstacles, but maybe this could be achieved by donations/fundraising? How delusional is my line of thinking?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2020 18:20
|
|
