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cough report: Having concluded that my somewhat alarming sounding continuing cough that I have had since 1st March when I came down with a 'weird cold' might now be hayfever related, I took a galpharm one a day tablet (Loratadine) midday yesterday and have had another one today midday. The coughing definitely seems to have subsided quite a bit. Page snipe: In coronavirus news: Denmark sees 110% rise in sale of sex toys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc5wNatrl0Q Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 22:40
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Vitamin P posted:Are people still gonna say Give Kier A Chance He Might Surprise Us or have we reached the end of that glorious era? Shrugs, let me know when Jessflaps or Kinnock get Chancellor or Home Secretary. Im willing for now to let the right be given a couple of junior posts, question is if they're being groomed to take over senior ones.
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Apr 9, 2020 22:41
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Apr 9, 2020 22:43
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Azza Bamboo posted:I don't think people heard the lack of sincerity in my tone about the prospects of a future revolution, violent or not. I expect people are farting on your dumb incompatible position. If Labour Party electoralism is the entire meaningful battleground for the left then the Rise of Starmwalker is very obviously a distastrous moment but you're then posting apologism and weird fictional crap about camps and mosaic tiles and a nebulous total control concept. It's not everyone else being dumb it's you being incoherent.
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Apr 9, 2020 22:44
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It's far more coherent than my hopes for Jeremy Corbyn ever proved to be.
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Apr 9, 2020 22:49
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:8000 deaths? Now that is a Good Friday! I can’t help but feel this headline will backfire
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Apr 9, 2020 22:50
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feedmegin posted:Shrugs, let me know when Jessflaps or Kinnock get Chancellor or Home Secretary. Im willing for now to let the right be given a couple of junior posts, question is if they're being groomed to take over senior ones. Why is that the meaningful question? Some right wing oval office is given a post to groom them is the same as if they're given the post to test them for potential future grooming is the same as they're given the post to block a decent person from having the post. Honest talk your 'wait and see until everything is irreparably ruined only then we should have an opinion' is so loving stupid just on the face of it that I must be misunderstanding in some way.
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Apr 9, 2020 22:51
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Who would you pick? I'm not asking who you'd not pick, who would you go for? Corbyn? Would he be in your cabinet?
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Apr 9, 2020 22:55
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If you put corbyn in the cabinet he would overshadow everyone else including the leader. But I would have voted for him a third time as leader so that's not particularly a concern to me.
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Apr 9, 2020 22:59
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Personally? I don't know most of them, but I think the most obvious thing to do would be to bring up the newer folks, also I would have started by immediately saying that yes there will be local party voting for MP's from now on. It will occur everyone 2 years from here on out, get cracking on being good MP's.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:01
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When someone loses power like that they always step back a bit don't they. Massive not like ego maniacs like salmond or loving lol farage about 15 times. But leaders of proper parties.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:01
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Hey goddamntwisto look away for a minute
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Apr 9, 2020 23:05
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Azza Bamboo posted:It's far more coherent than my hopes for Jeremy Corbyn ever proved to be. Guardian op-ed headline as reply very impressive but you're lying. Having hope for Corbyn was perfectly rational just the 2017 result and polling support for lefty policies was enough to make hope for Corbynism much more coherent than your incoherent 'lefty but Kier is for the best' nonsense.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:06
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Vitamin P posted:Why is that the meaningful question? Some right wing oval office is given a post to groom them is the same as if they're given the post to test them for potential future grooming is the same as they're given the post to block a decent person from having the post. The most pessimistic way to view the situation is that Momentum and Corbyn have hosed it, even the party membership have turned against them, and the Left is reduced to being a minority within an opposition party, with zero chance of attaining political power. The most optimistic way of looking at things is that Starmer actually has some lefty views under that media-facade, and he meant the stuff he pledged during the leadership campaign. And that he doesn't actually intend to take the party back to the Blair era, but he knows he has to unify it to stand any chance, so he's giving jobs to a bunch of pricks with the proviso that they go sell left-wing policies. At the end of the day it's policies I'm interested in above all else. If Starmer wants to try selling Corbyn's manifesto but with better hair and fronted by some of the worst arseholes in the party, I'm willing to give it a go. If he decides to abandon everything he promised during his campaign then I'll join you in despair.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:08
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I find the structuralist view more likely which is that if you staff the upper echelons of the party with assholes, then regardless of your intent, you will produce an rear end in a top hat cabinet. Whether his intent is to appease or promote, putting the scum of the party in positions of authority only makes it easier for them to have their way, in exactly the same way that putting boris johnson on HIGNFY to make fun of him is why he is now the prime minister. Intent doesn't matter, the decisions made assist the expression of the labour right's power in the party which will harm the welfare of people in this country for generations to come.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:11
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I should have listened to the people in my city, not to the people on my computer screen. The real world has much different sensibilities and a much different grip on the world than this bubble. Sure, hope for Corbyn was internally consistent, much as a group of Christians can form their own internally consistent theory about the origins of the world, but reality struck like it did a young 15 year old boy who thought faith healing could fix their coeliacs disease. Internally, hope was consistent. In reality, it was a bunch of liquid poo poo. If you want to hail Corbyn again you're welcome to, but the people around me seemed to know Corbyn was going to get mullered despite the polls and despite all the lovely things you were saying here.
Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 23:11
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Are schools in the us shut down? It's probably averaging about the same death rate as normal with school shootings not able to happen.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:12
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Azza Bamboo posted:I should have listened to the people in my city, not to the people on my computer screen. The real world has much different sensibilities and a much different grip on the world than this bubble. Sure, hope for Corbyn was internally consistent, much as a group of Christians can form their own internally consistent theory about the origins of the world, but reality struck like it did a young 15 year old boy who thought faith healing could fix their coeliacs disease. Internally, hope was consistent. In reality, it was a bunch of liquid poo poo. So we failed. But does that mean we were wrong? Truth is not a matter of popular vote and, even if we were mistaken, it was honest.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:14
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Azza Bamboo posted:Who would you pick? Why do you think this is a gotcha? I would pick people that care about systemic economic inequality and climate change for every position, the more they care about it the better, that means I would pick a lefty cabinet. Starmer is too cucked or too pedophile to allow the slightest trace of decency so our cabinet picks would obviously be different this is obvious what point are trying to make besides Kier is a more evil human than any random poster here?
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Apr 9, 2020 23:16
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Azza Bamboo posted:I should have listened to the people in my city, not to the people on my computer screen. The real world has much different sensibilities and a much different grip on the world than this bubble. Sure, hope for Corbyn was internally consistent, much as a group of Christians can form their own internally consistent theory about the origins of the world, but reality struck like it did a young 15 year old boy who thought faith healing could fix their coeliacs disease. Internally, hope was consistent. In reality, it was a bunch of liquid poo poo. If you find your presence here so unpleasant then please feel free to go outside and listen to people in your city because I am getting extremely tired of hearing a man whose entire political outlook is an expression of his unresolved parental issues snivel like a child about how pathetic everyone else is while simultaneously blaming them for the decisions he makes.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:19
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azza melting down twice in a week, cool cool
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Apr 9, 2020 23:21
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Is the Labour party the children of 250,000 fathers of whom you'd disapprove?
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Apr 9, 2020 23:21
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 a few comic reliefs holy loving poo poo im cry-laughing a few comic reliefs
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Apr 9, 2020 23:23
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Azza Bamboo posted:Is the Labour party the children of 250,000 fathers of whom you'd disapprove? No, but perhaps you should accept fault and blame if it comes to it. If you have made a mistake then learn, it is what you are arguing Labour should do, so if Starmer loses, or things get worse, will you accept the responsibility, or will you blame others for the choice that you made because it was "rational at the time". I think we need to learn, but I am unsure on the lesson, and I think getting very cross with people for not understanding you is not exactly conducive.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:24
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I'm not despairing. Way I see it, we're just back where we were in 2015. I've followed this thread since before Cameron's election, and I'm pretty sure a lot of us before Corbyn either voted for Labour while holding our noses or voted for them for the first time in 2017. Theres lots of places to go from here and to be honest some of my favourite discussions in this thread since in the election has been alternative ways to advance a leftist movement that don't exclusively entail "take over the Labour Party again and be better than Corbyn at running it". Besides, the toughest thing about being a left wing Labour member right now is that you're now in a party which contains a substantial amount of people who have at some point wondered many times if Keir Starmer would be in Hufflepuff or Gryffindor.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:24
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Most of us would have killed for this manifesto and this shadow cabinet before Corbyn was elected. The fact that we've backslid a bit after our glorious lefty leaders managed to gently caress up an election they went into with every possible advantage doesn't mean the party has gone back to the Blair era.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:29
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Josef bugman posted:No, but perhaps you should accept fault and blame if it comes to it. If you have made a mistake then learn, it is what you are arguing Labour should do, so if Starmer loses, or things get worse, will you accept the responsibility, or will you blame others for the choice that you made because it was "rational at the time". Fault for what? You're acting as though I am the avatar of all who turned to vote Kier and can speak for all of us. I can only speak for myself, and right now everyone seems to be doomsaying or worse, crying that it's not 2017 again and Corbyn is still supposedly doing great. You get the luxury of never having your preferred scenario tested, never witnessing what damage RLB would have done and having to apologise yourself.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:29
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Azza Bamboo posted:Internally, hope was consistent. In reality, it was a bunch of liquid poo poo. What do you think the word hope means? Azza Bamboo posted:If you want to hail Corbyn again you're welcome to, but the people around me seemed to know Corbyn was going to get mullered despite the polls and despite all the lovely things you were saying here. Firstly don't 'UKMT is a bubble!' me half this thread thinks I'm a nazi I'm well aware of the bubble but your description is that you knew Labour led by Corbyn after renegging on the Brexit ref result would probably lose in 2019? Well done have a loving medal that description was obvious and yeah the bubble here didn't admit it but what's your prescription? If you want lefty policies then acquiesing to a leader more obedient to the establishment press will not bring it. It you want lefty policies then apologising for a cabinet of cunts that have built their careers on blocking lefty policies will not bring it. Even in the meagre world of posting if you want lefty policies then ascribing some weird 'hail corbyn, hail victory' image to the people fighting for lefty policies will not bring it.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:30
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Obviously Ravenclaw. He's a nerd with no storylines.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:30
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Gorn Myson posted:I'm not despairing. Way I see it, we're just back where we were in 2015. I've followed this thread since before Cameron's election, and I'm pretty sure a lot of us before Corbyn either voted for Labour while holding our noses or voted for them for the first time in 2017. I thought they all voted Lib Dem. Either way I see no profit in telling Azza to gently caress off to Starmfront just yet. From the backbenches the Labour right may be happier for Labour to lose than for leftists to win, but now they're in charge they have to deal with how to get voters to turn out for them when they wouldn't turn out for Corbyn. We have seen from blind polling that Corbynite policies are popular even if he wasn't (due to character assassination, but still), and the Tories are even adopting some of those policies themselves. He can't kick out the whole 2019 manifesto at this point.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:31
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Azza Bamboo posted:You get the luxury of never having your preferred scenario tested, never witnessing what damage RLB would have done and having to apologise yourself. Did this statement even touch the sides on the way out? Is the flaw not blindingly obvious to you?
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Apr 9, 2020 23:32
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OwlFancier posted:Did this statement even touch the sides on the way out? Is the flaw not blindingly obvious to you? If it's so obvious then it shouldn't be difficult for you to put it in words.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:34
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Bardeh posted:
If there's one thing I'm always saying about Britain, is that it shouldn't go around donating trillions to other countries and showing off
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Apr 9, 2020 23:34
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That it is untestable does not for a moment stop your response being predicated on the certainty of the outcome if it were.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:35
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Azza Bamboo posted:I should have listened to the people in my city, not to the people on my computer screen. The real world has much different sensibilities and a much different grip on the world than this bubble. Sure, hope for Corbyn was internally consistent, much as a group of Christians can form their own internally consistent theory about the origins of the world, but reality struck like it did a young 15 year old boy who thought faith healing could fix their coeliacs disease. Internally, hope was consistent. In reality, it was a bunch of liquid poo poo. If you want to hail Corbyn again you're welcome to, but the people around me seemed to know Corbyn was going to get mullered despite the polls and despite all the lovely things you were saying here. You're right. Listen to the people on your town's streets. Hate foreigners and blame them for all our societal ills. Think Brexit is a good idea. Barely be engaged in the political process except what you read in The Sun. Go ham. Just don't post here in that case because you've as little to say as Pissflaps. There was absolutely self-delusion in this thread around the election but it was from a place of desperate optimism. I'd delude myself all over again. It felt nice, fleeting as it was. Just one month kidding on that this country couldn't be that selfish, cruel, spiteful, racist and credulous. Ultimately a rejection at the ballot box is not a comment on the feasibility of policy but a failure of advertising. People voting for Brexit didn't magically stop it being loving stupid. People voting for austerity doesn't stop it being a cruel and ideologically driven idea forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 23:40
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So the slight chance of there being a teapot between here and mars is why we ought to pursue it with the full might of the party apparatus, furtheremore to reject the possibility that something testable might actually produce results that make an improvement to society. If you're wanting me to say the results are in now, all we have is a shadow cabinet. Good lord the moment they ever release a statement or appear on TV the world will immediately fall into the worst possible nazi apocalypse imaginable and you'll be screaming for my apology for they have appeared on TV with a little ticker underneath them that says "shadow foreign secretary".
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Apr 9, 2020 23:41
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Part of having hope is accepting that what you're going for might not happen and hoping for it anyway. Otherwise you're just chasing vindication and you leave yourself open to peaks and troughs of despair but more importantly you never make any progress forward. It's why we don't throw our hands up in the face of climate change. Yes the problems are bad and we might not solve them. Yes we have to believe they are possible to solve and try anyway. Yes those two impulses are contradictory. The road leads where it leads but it doesn't have to be a death march. We don't have to sit here with our heads in our hands. If you'd listened to your friends you'd have been a bit more right in predicting the outcome but where would it actually have got you? Why is the lesson you take from being in a "bubble" of people with a mostly coherent shared opinion of moral right and how it applies to politics "gently caress these people don't know what they're talking about" and not "gently caress, at least I have these people"? Take the comradeship and worry about doing right not being right
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Apr 9, 2020 23:41
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Azza Bamboo posted:Fault for what? You're acting as though I am the avatar of all who turned to vote Kier and can speak for all of us. I can only speak for myself, and right now everyone seems to be doomsaying or worse, crying that it's not 2017 again and Corbyn is still supposedly doing great. You get the luxury of never having your preferred scenario tested, never witnessing what damage RLB would have done and having to apologise yourself. For if things get worse. You aren't an avatar, I am fairly sure there are a lot of Labour members (most of them in fact) who voted for Starmer. But I hope that, if poo poo goes south, they will try and understand if people get cross at them. At least in part this is because I don't think you believe in Starmer at all. You want the same policies as Corbyn but with a more palatable wrapper around them. Which is understandable. Everyone is doomsaying because, to put it bluntly, this is a low ebb after doing reasonably well for some time. The fact that you also go "You don't know how much worse it could be if X had happened" also doesn't help. If you want us to dwell in the real world then surely a critique of what is happening should be front and centre.
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Apr 9, 2020 23:41
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This is the second time in six days you've had a bit of a meltdown and demanded we scream for your apology. Maybe take a break
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Apr 9, 2020 23:43
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jabby posted:At the end of the day it's policies I'm interested in above all else. If Starmer wants to try selling Corbyn's manifesto but with better hair and fronted by some of the worst arseholes in the party, I'm willing to give it a go. I don't think he'll immediately abandon his promises, but he'll probably get drawn into watering them down until they're effectively abandoned. The problem with selling Corbyn's manifesto is that the right aren't known for their willingness to tolerate left policies, let alone implement them themselves, and are very much known for their contacts in the media, who'll get brief after brief about how terrible everything is. If he wants visible unity, I don't see a way out of it that doesn't involve either the suppression of the left or the expulsion of the right, and the former is probably easier. Very much a systemic pressure thing. Maybe another definition of unity would be letting the whole shitshow continue publicly, like Corbyn did, and claiming it's an example of Labour's big tent.
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