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It's mostly a matter of not particularly caring for Edge or Chrome, but with a tiny bit of tweaking it behaves much like my current Firefox setup. Tab trees on the left, navigation bar at the very top, no weird wankery to tweak away every couple of months.
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Apr 10, 2020 07:15
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I can't say how long I have been using Vivaldi. Years? The UI and functionality has stayed the same. No need to fiddle with settings and add-ons and fixes all the time.. more time to play dota instead 
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Apr 10, 2020 07:36
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Until a browser does add-on introspection like Firefox does, which enables ublock origin to function as well as it does, and ublock origin exists on that browser, I won't use anything else. Tampermonkey or an equivalent is also pretty much mandatory, but ublock origin is the only must-have. This, naturally, completely excludes anything based off Webkit+Blink+V8/Chromium/whatever the Google engine is called, and that's +90% of the browser market. Ihmemies posted:I can't say how long I have been using Vivaldi. Years? The UI and functionality has stayed the same. No need to fiddle with settings and add-ons and fixes all the time.. more time to play dota instead I don't think it's for me though, because by nature and training I like being able to tweak things to my liking; it's part of the reason I run FreeBSD instead of something else (although everything else annoys me too much for various reasons).
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Apr 10, 2020 10:29
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D. Ebdrup posted:Until a browser does add-on introspection like Firefox does, which enables ublock origin to function as well as it does, and ublock origin exists on that browser, I won't use anything else. Also ctrl-tab on crome works wrong and can't be changed, afaik.
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Apr 10, 2020 11:03
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Wheany posted:Also ctrl-tab on crome works wrong and can't be changed, afaik.
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Apr 10, 2020 11:31
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Bieeanshee posted:I was fine providing performance information when they asked me to, but I wouldn't have known about this if I wasn't reading this thread. If you ask me, I'm much more likely to say 'yes' than if you ask my forgiveness. Especially when Moz's big branding push these days is "Firefox respects your privacy". If you're gonna make respecting privacy your shtick, you can't turn around and add a daily phone-home without asking people first. Yeah, it's no worse than what everyone else does but if you make that claim you should hold yourself to the highest standard, not the one step better than google and facebook standard. Ihmemies posted:I can't say how long I have been using Vivaldi. Years? The UI and functionality has stayed the same. No need to fiddle with settings and add-ons and fixes all the time.. more time to play dota instead Yeah the good thing about vivaldi is that the people behind it think Opera circa 2013 was the pinnacle of web browsers, so it will never not look like Opera in 2013. That's the entire reason the browser exists.
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Apr 10, 2020 13:52
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How is Vivaldi's record for privacy? Does Blink engine mean necessarily mean everything's going to google?
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Apr 10, 2020 14:17
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Lakitu7 posted:How is Vivaldi's record for privacy? Does Blink engine mean necessarily mean everything's going to google? Their privacy policy is better than Mozilla's. Most of google's biggest data collection code is only in chrome, not chromium. So any of the chrome-based browsers that aren't chrome are much better, including a generic chromium build. AFAIK vivaldi's devs remove most stuff, but there's still some things like hard-coded DNS fallbacks to google. Incredibly minor leakage IMO, but some people still freak about it. So I think vivaldi is even better at privacy than firefox. If I ever get totally fed up it'll become my main. But I still like using firefox more.
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Apr 10, 2020 15:04
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MikusR posted:people complained and pointed out problems but Mozilla ignored it. They do their actual jobs. https://www.computerworld.com/article/3389882/former-mozilla-exec-alleges-google-torpedoed-firefox-with-oops-excuses.html quote:The complications came from direct competition between the two companies over browsers, and the fact that Google has been the source of more than 91% of all Mozilla revenue year in, year out. (Google paid Mozilla to make the Google search service the default in Firefox.) Although some questioned whether Google would continue to pay Mozilla once it had its own browser, the former kept writing checks. And in 2017, when Mozilla walked away from a five-year contract with Yahoo after Yahoo was bought by Verizon, the Firefox maker went right back to Google as its main money source. Time to move some buttons around and force more users to give up! Cash that sweet check! (That article ends with a big "well actually!" that ignores the fact that the pattern never stops.)
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Apr 10, 2020 15:04
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Klyith posted:Their privacy policy is better than Mozilla's. Thanks. I'm one of those people who really loved 2013 Opera, so I probably should give it a try. I just had some resistance to jumping on another community fork browser but I'm having a hard time seeing what benefit there is to staying on firefox these days. At least on a Blink-based browser, I won't have to hop over to Chrome when I want random bank sites to work properly or video playback to not be choppy.
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Apr 10, 2020 15:11
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Klyith posted:Their privacy policy is better than Mozilla's. That Vivaldi policy doesn't mention automatic browser and extension updates. They use the Chrome Web Store right?
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Apr 10, 2020 18:23
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Applebees posted:That Vivaldi policy doesn't mention automatic browser and extension updates. They use the Chrome Web Store right? Afaik it never auto-updates, you always get a notify prompt. Add-ons are from chrome web store. edit: Someone who uses vivaldi a lot should make a thread, I use it pretty stock because all I do in vivaldi is youtube & other video sites. Vivaldi is like more like my tv than my browser. Klyith fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Apr 10, 2020 |
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Apr 10, 2020 18:40
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Oh god, now I just got FF 75 update in Fedora, and I noticed the dropdown arrow disappeared. Now I know what you guys were talking about. It's bloody awful. Jesus, who in their right mind thought that this is a good idea? Un-freaking-believable.
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Apr 10, 2020 22:57
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Wait, why do people hate this change so much?
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Apr 10, 2020 23:35
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Double Punctuation posted:Wait, why do people hate this change so much? Some people used the arrow feature and have to change their muscle memory to just click in the box now. Others did not use that feature and were annoyed that it now pops up automatically when you focus the address bar. Still others used keyboard navigation to tab around starting with the address bar, and now they have to hit escape before they tab.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:39
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astral posted:Some people used the arrow feature and have to change their muscle memory to just click in the box now. Others did not use that feature and were annoyed that it now pops up automatically when you focus the address bar. Still others used keyboard navigation to tab around starting with the address bar, and now they have to hit escape before they tab. Plus, it's a change that provides absolutely no benefit and it's asking something from the users when it didn't used to before. I didn't have to hit Esc before. Now I do. I didn't have to move the mouse to close the dropdown. Now I do. Is it hard to do that? No, but it is annoying to have to do it now when I didn't before. On top of this, not only this is not an opt-in feature (as it should), but even the opt-out mechanism is hidden in about :config with the threat that it'll be removed at a later point. It should be an opt-in feature in the Preferences tab. Clearly marked with an explanation of what it does and how to undo it. First class citizen, not relegated to the bowels of about :config. Please do change the browser, by improving it, by adding features and by adding options to the user to use or not said features. The goal should be to empower the user not to make these decisions in spite of the user. When they do make these one-sided decisions they not only do not attract new people but they also alienate the user-base that they do have. I think. Maybe they just piss of me and everyone loves it. Dunno. I suppose they can make those decisions after seeing the telemetry data.
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Apr 10, 2020 23:57
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Volguus posted:I think. Maybe they just piss of me and everyone loves it. Dunno. I suppose they can make those decisions after seeing the telemetry data. I honestly think they either take the current userbase for granted or are convinced they're Stockholmed to the browser and won't leave no matter what. "It's ok. I can change And they obviously have no idea what users want, as demonstrated by all these wildly random changes that serve no real benefit other than change for the sake of change. I've lamented before about the other browser options being Chrome (or derivatives) and Edge. But now it's going to become just Chrome and its derivatives or Firefox. And I seriously tried just dealing with Chrome on my work computer, but something about it just annoys me to no end, so I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place with regard to browser choice. I'm really annoyed that with every second major version I have to either re-learn muscle memory or dive into about :config and the idea of switching to a different browser altogether starts looking more and more enticing. Because at least then I know I'm going to have to deal with a large change and can mentally accept that, simply because I'm installing new software that I know will be different than what I'm used to.
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Apr 11, 2020 01:21
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Geemer posted:I honestly think they either take the current userbase for granted or are convinced they're Stockholmed to the browser and won't leave no matter what. This. What baffles me about Firefox is that they're constantly bleeding users, yet ignore user feedback on unpopular UI changes. They don't need fancy underhanded telemetry -- just the direct user feedback from the betas and nightlies. All the "regular" users they're trying to attract by making it look like Chrome have already moved on (to Chrome) and couldn't give a crap what browser they're using, so their only userbase are the exact kind of sweaty nerds like myself that would be happy to try out the betas. Ignoring the beta feedback of "this UI is terrible" with the response "but regular users might learn to like it" is daft. Honestly, the world would be in a better place if we just fed all the world's UI designers through a woodchipper and start again. I'm not against good UI changes were a specific need is addressed with a specific change, but after a decade of usability downgrades of preference removals, "simple UIs", huge negative whitespace, low contrast and "modern flat UIs" I'm getting tired. No one wants the old 90's Gnome 1 interface back, but surely we can do better than metro, material design and whatever the hell Firefox is now.
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Apr 11, 2020 02:34
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astral posted:Still others used keyboard navigation to tab around starting with the address bar, and now they have to hit escape before they tab. You don't have to press Esc. You can just hit tab to move to the next control. The dropdown always clears when it loses focus.
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Apr 11, 2020 05:49
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Applebees posted:You don't have to press Esc. You can just hit tab to move to the next control. The dropdown always clears when it loses focus. Oh good, they fixed that one before 75 released. We can strike it from the list of various folks' gripes. astral fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 05:51
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Has anyone else been having the problem where firefox nightly randomly corrupts its own profile every three or four days? I have no idea if my update settings (automatically install updates using a background service) are causing something to go wrong and corrupt everything or if this is just the intended nightly experience. Assuming that I'm loving something up here, how do I fix it?
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Apr 11, 2020 16:43
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For some reason it took a whole Windows update reboot for my assome bar fix to assert itself. I'm just bemused at this point.
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Apr 11, 2020 16:56
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Mozilla: Since you people love the Megabar so much, here's a preview of the new Ultrabar, coming to Firefox 78! Shamelessly stolen from reddit.
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Apr 12, 2020 06:25
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I wonder what the rest of the bookmarks read.
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Apr 12, 2020 06:35
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quote:Using tab to navigate a list is clearly an antipattern that goes against all commonly accepted keyboard navigation standards. Huh? Is this a thing now?
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Apr 12, 2020 06:42
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Hit F7 for caret browsing!
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Apr 12, 2020 11:12
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It looks like the config options for the new address bar are getting removed too. 
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Apr 12, 2020 13:33
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Pikestaff posted:It looks like the config options for the new address bar are getting removed too. quote:There's been so impressively much negative feedback that it's absolutely clear this isn't just the usual user annoyance at change. Firefox will end up dead. Just the way Google wanted.
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Apr 12, 2020 13:36
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Pikestaff posted:It looks like the config options for the new address bar are getting removed too. Lol that bug removing the option having every single comment about not wanting it removed hidden and then getting locked. Why even bother having the bug tracker publicly available?
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Apr 12, 2020 13:44
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Geemer posted:Lol that bug removing the option having every single comment about not wanting it removed hidden and then getting locked. Why even bother having the bug tracker publicly available? The people running that show are pretty gross.
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Apr 12, 2020 13:54
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Has anyone talked about which supposed usability issue this change was supposed to resolve?
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Apr 12, 2020 14:09
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Welp, this loving sucks. I'm not loving going to use Chromium-based browsers, so I guess I'm stuck with w3m-img.nielsm posted:Has anyone talked about which supposed usability issue this change was supposed to resolve?
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Apr 12, 2020 15:24
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Just gonna  self-quote here:Klyith posted:The browser.urlbar.update1 pref will probably not be available forever, as the awesomebar is another XUL holdover and they're removing those parts bit by bit. nielsm posted:Has anyone talked about which supposed usability issue this change was supposed to resolve? Changing the urlbar isn't usability, it's removing stuff that relies on code they want to deprecate and remove. The XUL-removal project has been going on for years now, the extension-apocalypse back in v57 was the first cut. That's why the pref to revert is only sticking around for two versions: this is your grace period to find or make alternatives if you don't like the new thing. Why they made the new megabar look and behave like it does, not just design the new thing to look like the old thing? I have no idea. That's the mozilla way.
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Apr 12, 2020 15:37
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nielsm posted:Has anyone talked about which supposed usability issue this change was supposed to resolve? "Im a ~designer~ and i need to do something with all the hours I demand to be paid to doodle on an ipad" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYvsIenveTY "comments are turned off" https://blog.mozilla.org/opendesign/firefox-the-evolution-of-a-brand/ quote:Tell us. We can take it.
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Apr 12, 2020 15:43
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Yep. I'm done here.
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Apr 12, 2020 16:19
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Klyith posted:Just gonna Yeah, I'm cranky when software changes, but I'm more wary of the opt-in telemetry--however basic it may be, it's indicative of an internal attitude change--than the oddball user design choice. It's still a really good browser for my uses and privacy concerns. I think it has a large enough nerdshare that I'd know well in advance of it becoming a real dumpster fire.
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Apr 12, 2020 19:35
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Mozilla just needs to die honestly, like a forest fire that's needed for new growth to happen, if there is demand for a privacy orientated opensource browser then one will happen, I'd much rather see something new show up on GitHub then keep watching where Firefox is heading.
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Apr 12, 2020 21:22
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Except there isn't enough demand for a privacy oriented browser. It's firefox or bust.
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Apr 12, 2020 23:04
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Firefox has an estimated number of work-hours on the order of 6000 person-years and an estimated cost of on the order of 350 million - partially because you have to remember that its history goes far further back than just Mozilla, it's all of Netscape and all the way back to NCSA Mosaic.
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Apr 13, 2020 00:01
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I've decided I can mostly live with the ugly growing for now, hoping that part will get changed. I'll stick with the non-XUL urlbar if that's going to be the future anyway. But I'm still disabling all the other dumb settings, especially browser.urlbar.openViewOnFocus, browser.urlbar.update1.searchTips, and browser.urlbar.update1.view.stripHttps. Also browser.urlbar.update1.interventions but I have no idea what that's supposed to do, does anyone know?
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Apr 13, 2020 10:24
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