|
Fumble posted:I take alot of drugs in the morning and it takes me a while to get up to speed. Yeah you really shouldn't do speed before midday.
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
ThomasPaine posted:I know breathless despair is kinda your posting gimmick but this is pretty revisionist. Balanced budget austerity is exactly what I was supporting Corbyn to stop. So it was pretty disappointing when it became part of the platform. But then the economic side is really the bulk of what I give a poo poo about, so for me climbing down from that means you're climbing down from the whole thing. There's never been any evidence they were just pretending and when they'd be elected theyd have actually been radical. It didn't help them either so I don't think it was messaging it was just their limited political imaginations.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:32
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Do you think though that this report has been leaked now specifically to 'encourage' a lot of lefties to leave the party in disgust? I suspect the reason it's been leaked is the one stated, because the new leadership is trying to cover it up because it incriminates them and the people who wrote it want it out in the open. Trying to make people leave the party by releasing documents that say you're a massive bunch of shits that everyone on earth would hate doesn't seem like a good idea. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 12, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
We put out a LGBT pride flag "in support of the NHS", to the annoyance of the neighbours, in cheery events of the day.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:41
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/TheSinanKose/status/1249406403233579010?s=20
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:42
|
|
|
There are some incredible segments in that leak. This one on p83-84 for those reading along, is incredibly daming: leak posted:
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:46
|
|
|
I'm not sure leaking "how we got away with it" is gonna encourage people to leave. Quietly losing a leadership battle after a bad elecion might feel like hopeless inevitability, revealing that we almost had it and we were right and there was active sabotage seems more likely to piss people off and make them want to fight wish they'd leaked it before the leadership vote though
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:49
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/IanAustin1965/status/1249306805144104963 so nice to know that ian austin will never, ever suffer the mildest of consequences
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:49
|
|
|
On the subject of decentralized information networks this is the sort of thing that is important, IMO. This information needs to go out to labour members so that they loving know what happened, they know who it was that robbed them, they know why they were denied their rightful victory. Because the official story will not mention it, it is up to people to keep this knowledge alive and have it shape how we behave in future.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:50
|
|
|
Communist Thoughts posted:Balanced budget austerity is exactly what I was supporting Corbyn to stop. So it was pretty disappointing when it became part of the platform. But then the economic side is really the bulk of what I give a poo poo about, so for me climbing down from that means you're climbing down from the whole thing. I get that, but I can see the strategic thinking. The idea of 'national credit card' economics, however bogus, has been deeply ingrained in the popular consciousness (deliberately). Challenging that openly is good if you're arguing in good faith with someone at an individual level, but for a mass party message is often going to fall on deaf ears because of the depth of the ideology. I see McDonnell's approach as a subtle acknowledgement of this - you respond to 'balanced budgets = good, therefore cuts must be made' with 'balanced budgets = good, but we can do this without significant cuts if we're smart about it', and you're highlighting a contradiction without actually challenging the basic ideological frame. This puts you in a much better position for engaging with people effectively. That's only a first step of course, and you can then move into more openly radical territory once you've prepared the ground after a spell in government. It's completely futile to aim for the superstructure from the off unless you have the power to unilaterally tear it down, which labour certainly does not at present.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
i dont know why you guys are so upset im pretty sure teh fine and upstanding british press will fairly and accurately cover this stuff
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:53
|
|
|
There's actual evidence of misappropriation in there as well: leak, pg93 posted:This secret project appears to have been to funnell additional resources into seats of
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:53
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:SO how do you completely rebuild a party's entire administrative structure ? Because now is the time. The time was between 2015 & 2019 when the left controlled the party. We gave it up before even beginning to do something about the absolute state of the internal party machinery & that's another knock on Corbyn's leadership unfortunately.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:56
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:The section about Chris Williamson near the end of the report (page 825) is interesting. It seems that Keith Vaz had a role in getting the initial NEC decision to give a formal warning to Chris Williamson for repeated behaviour skirting the rules and putting the party in disrepute invalidated. The report says it was because he was ill, but the text of the email from Vaz has more to do with the fact that there was a leak to the press of the proceedings from an unknown source, and that breach in confidentiality would be grounds for legal action against the proceedings, which lead to the NEC AS complaints panel being ordered to reconvene leading to the reinstatement of Williamson's suspension while they waited for said panel to reconvene. Earlier in the document Keith Vaz's name comes up in the internal communications of the wreckers: quote:
This all seems pretty dodgy tbh
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:58
|
|
|
Apraxin posted:https://twitter.com/IanAustin1965/status/1249306805144104963 yeah this whole thing does seem incredibly easy to spin into "labours antisemitism report HIJACKED by corbynists to blame PLP" and its good for the tories either way cause it highlights the persistent factionalism that characterises labour and prevents it from being an effective party it does cement that corbyn should have done a purge but as covered, he isn't that type of person. thats kinda the problem with trying to select a "man/woman of the moment" from amongst parliament, the best MP is basically still pretty poo poo so you're not exactly spoiled for choice
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 19:59
|
|
|
It’s really incredible how evil and malignant blairite labour people were and how they completely made up the antisemitism thing against corbyn. Liberals are evil man.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:00
|
|
|
A Spherical Sponge posted:It seems that Keith Vaz had a role in getting the initial NEC decision to give a formal warning to Chris Williamson for repeated behaviour skirting the rules and putting the party in disrepute invalidated. The report says it was because he was ill, but the text of the email from Vaz has more to do with the fact that there was a leak to the press of the proceedings from an unknown source, and that breach in confidentiality would be grounds for legal action against the proceedings, which lead to the NEC AS complaints panel being ordered to reconvene leading to the reinstatement of Williamson's suspension while they waited for said panel to reconvene. Simon D there will be Simon Danzcuk so lmao that they figured it'll be fine, we'll just risk a sex pest being allowed back in to the party off the mishandling of this thing, just play it by ear. Pod will be covering this soon, and we're in data mining mode at the minute. If anyone wants to assist and dump us extremely choice bits that warrant specific attention, hit us up on the discord, we're collating everything there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:09
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Simon D there will be Simon Danzcuk so lmao that they figured it'll be fine, we'll just risk a sex pest being allowed back in to the party off the mishandling of this thing, just play it by ear. This guy is doing a pretty good dissection job: https://twitter.com/wariotifo/with_replies
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:This guy is doing a pretty good dissection job: The Reel Politik episode is going to be something else with the rate he's blasting through this o7
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:15
|
|
|
Communist Thoughts posted:yeah this whole thing does seem incredibly easy to spin into "labours antisemitism report HIJACKED by corbynists to blame PLP" and its good for the tories either way cause it highlights the persistent factionalism that characterises labour and prevents it from being an effective party the vast majority of our national media will never, ever portray labour in a positive light, particularly on this issue, regardless of what any report does or doesn't say. the factionalism is there anyway, and won't be resolved by just ignoring one wing of the party actively sabotaging us. it might give them more ammunition to spin their narrative but it's not like the British media need any help to print lies and hate about the left and the public will lap it up whether there's evidence or not because, frankly, they're absolutely loving hopeless
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:16
|
|
|
What happens if the sun folds? Or the mail, or torygraph? Will there be any big difference in how things are looked at/reported do you think?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:21
|
|
|
They'll move online, it's gonna happen eventually anyway.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:23
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:As I recall zounds is a quanity below legion but above horde. Just popping my head in to say I got this and it's a good 'un. Also: this loving report. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
Wait, Rod Liddle is in the Labour Party? https://twitter.com/wariotifo/status/1249409559858417664?s=20
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:31
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/miqdaad/status/1249405212491685888?s=21 lol, look at that third one about Rod Liddle. That's Stolliday and Oldknow (the current Unison officers) talking there. Actually, the whole of page 188 is insane.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:34
|
|
|
Al-Saqr posted:It’s really incredible how evil and malignant blairite labour people were and how they completely made up the antisemitism thing against corbyn. Liberals are evil man. Malignant I'd agree with but I don't think they are willfully evil. I think the way they call people "trots" is important because a lot of these people don't view themselves as liberals but earnestly believe they are saving a democratic socialist project from a pack of radicals. At least this is my experience of these types during my years in the party. They're stupid, misguided, and arrogant but I don't think they are evil even if the results are evil.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:46
|
|
|
a pipe smoking dog posted:Malignant I'd agree with but I don't think they are willfully evil. I think the way they call people "trots" is important because a lot of these people don't view themselves as liberals but earnestly believe they are saving a democratic socialist project from a pack of radicals. At least this is my experience of these types during my years in the party. They're stupid, misguided, and arrogant but I don't think they are evil even if the results are evil. I think that motivation cannot matter as much as outcome. One can delude others and oneself about the relative goodness of an action, but if the action itself is bad, it doesn't matter half as much.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:48
|
|
|
a pipe smoking dog posted:Malignant I'd agree with but I don't think they are willfully evil. I think the way they call people "trots" is important because a lot of these people don't view themselves as liberals but earnestly believe they are saving a democratic socialist project from a pack of radicals. At least this is my experience of these types during my years in the party. They're stupid, misguided, and arrogant but I don't think they are evil even if the results are evil. I mean, they're skirting close to outright racism with some of the stuff they said about Abbott and Butler. They were cheering the Tories on against their own party. They almost certainly cost Labour the 2017 election and therefore caused misery, suffering and death to thousands. They're loving evil.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:50
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:This guy is doing a pretty good dissection job: He's a former goon who managed to get David Cameron into trouble in the daily mail for changing his account name to tebbits cum face and a picture of tebbit being carried out after the bombing and whoever controlled Cameron's account liked one of the tweets
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:53
|
|
|
So lesson learned, entryism without purges doesn't work.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:53
|
|
|
It's okay to give up on the labour party
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:56
|
|
|
You're never going to get anywhere if you just give up all the time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:57
|
|
|
Never been more ashamed of Labour than today.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 20:58
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:You're never going to get anywhere if you just give up all the time. Labour's dead man, not amount of shocking it's corpse with high voltage electricity is going to make it come back to life even as it spasms and writhes
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 21:01
|
|
|
So, I don't know much about the power structures of the various organizations that make up the Labour whole. How much power did Corbyn wield in terms of being able to get rid of people like this? Was he completely shackled, or could he have gotten rid of them?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 21:03
|
|
|
Ash Crimson posted:Labour's dead man, not amount of shocking it's corpse with high voltage electricity is going to make it come back to life even as it spasms and writhes Neoliberalism is dead but here we are e: Corbyn could have purged a lot of the party but didn't. Thought of being nice and died.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 21:04
|
|
|
It's not dead you melt it's still full of decent members, it's the people at the top who are shits and it's important the members learn that, if your response to the exposure of entrenched power by abhorrent means is to go "welp that sucks better not do anything about it" you might as well shoot yourself in the head cos you're giving them free license to do it for you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 21:04
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:It's not dead you melt it's still full of decent members, it's the people at the top who are shits and it's important the members learn that, if your response to the exposure of entrenched power by abhorrent means is to go "welp that sucks better not do anything about it" you might as well shoot yourself in the head cos you're giving them free license to do it for you. Excuse me?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 21:05
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1249424188454076421?s=19
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 21:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 09:27 |
|
|
Literally all you ever post is suggestions about "giving up" on every single thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2020 21:06
|
|