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I did a double take when Aerith remarked that official word has it that Sephiroth died five years ago. I could have sworn that the Nibelheim incident happened seven years prior to the start of the game and that Cloud's mind had blocked out the two years he spent as a lab rat in Hojo's basement.
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Apr 13, 2020 09:59
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Eshettar posted:I did a double take when Aerith remarked that official word has it that Sephiroth died five years ago. I could have sworn that the Nibelheim incident happened seven years prior to the start of the game and that Cloud's mind had blocked out the two years he spent as a lab rat in Hojo's basement. The incident happened five years prior. Cloud and Zack were held captive for four; they break out a year before FFVII. Where you might be confused was where in the original game Cloud says the last time Tifa and Cloud talked was five years ago (which is accurate), while Tifa thinks it's seven years ago. This is because the water tower scene was seven years ago, and Tifa never knew Cloud was at Nibelheim.
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Apr 13, 2020 10:17
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Eshettar posted:I did a double take when Aerith remarked that official word has it that Sephiroth died five years ago. I could have sworn that the Nibelheim incident happened seven years prior to the start of the game and that Cloud's mind had blocked out the two years he spent as a lab rat in Hojo's basement. The seven years five years thing is that Cloud left Nibelheim to become a soldier 7 years ago and the incident happened 5 years ago. Tifa is confused when he says it's been 5 years since they met because to her it's been 7 years. What he's blocking out is that he didn't make it to SOLDIER and hid his face 5 years ago.
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Apr 13, 2020 10:17
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Ahhh I'm with you now. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Apr 13, 2020 10:23
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It's not really a big deal since, really, VII's timeline can be incredibly obtuse at times. Luckily most of it is pretty unimportant.
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Apr 13, 2020 10:25
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IT'S ALL UNIMPORTANT NOW THAT AT LONG LAST THE HARBINGERS OF DESTINY HAVE BEEN DEFEATED~~ *ahem*
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Apr 13, 2020 10:33
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How the gently caress the gently caress did we not get a new version of The Price of Freedom Also I finished the game and aaaaaaaaaaaa WHAT?
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Apr 13, 2020 11:13
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It's seven seconds from Sephoroths appearance to the stab in the cutscene and the music is the city of ancients theme as Seph says it, they're totally gonna. honestly a way to handle it might be to "kill" cloud until mideel there instead and reintroduce Zack as his supposed replacement who plays really similar, then in the end we get both. Anyway for a light-hearted idea, if we do get a "but worse" endgame to this and a whole snorg of characters, whose your dream team for banter fighting Safest Sephiroth? I wanna hear the broteam of Zack, Angelo and Gennie again as they beat down the angsty fucker.
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Apr 13, 2020 12:03
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StealthArcher posted:It's seven seconds from Sephoroths appearance to the stab in the cutscene and the music is the city of ancients theme as Seph says it, they're totally gonna. honestly a way to handle it might be to "kill" cloud until mideel there instead and reintroduce Zack as his supposed replacement who plays really similar, then in the end we get both. Also, The final sequence of slashes between Cloud and Sephiroth is the Omnislash, including the camera flashing back and forth between them, but Sephiroth parries it all this time
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Apr 13, 2020 12:30
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Onmi posted:Also, The final sequence of slashes between Cloud and Sephiroth is the Omnislash, including the camera flashing back and forth between them, but Sephiroth parries it all this time The entire ending arc is all the heavy ending moments of the original, they straight drop both J-E-N-O-V-A and OWA in it. This is in many ways it's sendoff.
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Apr 13, 2020 12:48
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I'm gonna laugh if the rest of the remake series just follows the original game's plot except aeris doesn't die and that's the only real change
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Apr 13, 2020 13:17
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They've deffo left it vague enough they can go either way, and fully tailor it to fan reactions.
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Apr 13, 2020 13:24
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ApplesandOranges posted:Also, I could never figure out the Rufus fight, what move are you supposed to use on him and when, because I ended up just slowly chipping away and healing until I just Limited him, and then did it again. Biggest complaint about this battle system is that the big bosses all seem to have a "right" way to fight, and trying to brute force it (either because you don't have Assess or the right materia equipped) is just painful.
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Apr 13, 2020 14:14
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PancakeTransmission posted:Braver will stagger him in 1 hit, but my problem was that I couldn't figure out the right timing to do it easily. Not even sure how you're supposed to kill his dog, I used Sleep and then ran in circles Casting Fira every time my ATB charged. I just Counterstance'd Dark Hound, it's a really good skill for obvious tells.
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Apr 13, 2020 14:19
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I had to redo the final Whisper fight because Bahamut decided he needed to use his super move immediately as his phase started which put me in a failure spiral. He did it again the second time around, but I managed to dance around for a few minutes until I built enough ATB to revive and heal. I really liked the game, but it seemed like Wedge died in the end which was kind of weird since everyone else made it. In my mind the whole beating destiny thing came solely from them looking at the rest of the original FF7 and admitting that there was no way that they were going to be able to recreate all of it in any reasonable amount of time so they can now mix things up and still hit all the high notes. Not sure what the thing with Zack at the end was though since the Cloud with him can’t be the Cloud from this game. I’m really interested in hearing from people who didn’t know the details of FF7’s plot because most of the Destiny stuff loses its impact if you don’t understand what the ghost are stopping. I’m pumped to play as Red XIII next game. Giving banter to him and all the other new party member who should show up will be great to see and make them way better.
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Apr 13, 2020 15:24
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Blocking the dog in punisher stance will sever the tether and give you the chance to just beat the everloving poo poo out of it, Rufus himself is more annoying since as far as ai can tell you can only reliably hit him when he’s reloading, but the window is super short and building enough ATB is hard
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Apr 13, 2020 15:26
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My dumb assumption is that beating destiny lets past failures get fixed and history rewrites itself to correct it. So maybe Cloud manages to revive Biggs enough for him to escape the plate, and maybe Zack escorts Cloud to Midgar safely and gives him the Buster Sword and we'll find out more in Obvious Sequel Hook. I think the game started off really strongly and kinda petered a bit after Wall Market with a lot of obvious padding. Shinra HQ was a nice recovery, then it got a bit ehhh again after you reunite with Aerith and the last part of the game is a mix of high nostalgia hits (the bike chase sequence was great even if I was terrible at it) and some weird fanfiction-esque Whisper fix-it stuff. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 15:42
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Clarste posted:Further thoughts: my acting assumption at the moment is that Jenova/Sephiroth is trying to pull a Chrono Cross and creating a new timeline where it has a chance to survive. Yeah, this is what I think is happening. If I have one complaint about the ending (which it seems we're still spoiler tagging in this thread?) it's that it feels weird for the big conclusion to be the characters essentially being tricked into killing the force that's trying to keep them on track for saving the Planet. Obviously they have no idea that the pain that lies ahead, the things they've seen in visions, leads to them saving the world, so they think they need to defy destiny in order to win when instead the opposite is true. There's a lot of dramatic irony there for people like us who played the original, but it still feels frustrating to be beating up on the thing that we know is just trying to help (in a weird, menacing way that involves killing our friends). Still better than the ending of FFXIII, where the party goes from "no we won't kill you Oprhan because that's exactly what you want" to "gently caress yeah let's kill Orphan and just hope everything turns out fine" in the space of one fight
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Apr 13, 2020 15:43
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The kinda weird thing is that the party explicitly thanks the Whispers twice too for saving their skins.
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Apr 13, 2020 15:47
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They really could have added more times that the Whispers actively harmed the characters. What was the most negative thing they did? Hurt Jessie’s ankle? Nothing negative I can think of that was on the scale of saving Barret’s life. Did they do anything to ensure that the plate fell?
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Apr 13, 2020 15:53
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I love that they get the vision of Red 13 running towards Midgar at the end. and he goes, this is the future if we do nothing!
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Apr 13, 2020 15:59
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this bullshit this game is on ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulessssssssssssssss
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Apr 13, 2020 16:00
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Oh my god this artbook has pictures of the characters as toads 
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Apr 13, 2020 16:01
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Ethiser posted:They really could have added more times that the Whispers actively harmed the characters. What was the most negative thing they did? Hurt Jessie’s ankle? Nothing negative I can think of that was on the scale of saving Barret’s life. Did they do anything to ensure that the plate fell? They popped up multiple times to ensure the characters arrived too late and literally stopped Tifa shutting down the the plate purge system or whatever. Sakurazuka fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 16:08
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Why did they even hurt Jessie's ankle anyway? The reactor was gonna blow up regardless if Jessie was there or not since Shinra.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:12
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Cloud had to go, so he could fall down to the church
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Apr 13, 2020 16:13
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ApplesandOranges posted:Why did they even hurt Jessie's ankle anyway? The reactor was gonna blow up regardless if Jessie was there or not since Shinra. They weren't going to take Cloud with them until Jessie had to stay home
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Apr 13, 2020 16:13
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Ethiser posted:They really could have added more times that the Whispers actively harmed the characters. What was the most negative thing they did? Hurt Jessie’s ankle? Nothing negative I can think of that was on the scale of saving Barret’s life. Did they do anything to ensure that the plate fell? Also I only saw the cutscene but don't they ensure Jessie gets all blowed up from her own grenade?
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Apr 13, 2020 16:17
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Ethiser posted:I had to redo the final Whisper fight because Bahamut decided he needed to use his super move immediately as his phase started which put me in a failure spiral. He did it again the second time around, but I managed to dance around for a few minutes until I built enough ATB to revive and heal. I mean with regards to Zack he could still be around. He was at Death's door after the fight with Shinra, it could be that he drug Cloud to town, fell comatose to his wounds, and is in recovery somewhere in one of the other sector slums. Cloud still at this point being coo coo crazy and also addled out of his mind can gotten up and mobile, stolen Zack's sword while Zack was zonked out and did the same dissociation he does normally in the original game. Like, it still makes sense from a plot persoective. Ethiser posted:They really could have added more times that the Whispers actively harmed the characters. What was the most negative thing they did? Hurt Jessie’s ankle? Nothing negative I can think of that was on the scale of saving Barret’s life. Did they do anything to ensure that the plate fell? In the original game Reno solo plot-wins the fight at the top of the plate tower and is able to confirm and set off the explosion with no issue. In the remake both him and Rude combined get so thoroughly thrashed that the whispers intervene, keeping the party away so that Rude can confirm the detonation. They also delay Cloud/Tifa/Aeris at the train station to keep them from getting to the plate controls too early because had Cloud gotten there even a little big earlier, he would of prevented the Scooby Terrorist Gang from getting killed. I think it's also implied that one of the whispers causes Jessie's grenade to detonate prematurely and that's what killed her. There's also the implication that they throw Wedge out the window of the Shinra building but lol if you think he's dead if it happened off screen. If they wanted to get really convoluted and peak NOMURA!  something I think would be fun is if, with the death of Destiny, it does make some alternate timeline shennanigans. A timeline of events where destiny doesn't intervene, Barret and Tifa go off without Cloud and fail to blow up the Sector 5 reactor and/or what it looks like if the gang successfully defended the pillar. They get lauded as heroes but don't have the impetus to go after Shinra directly. Sephiroth gets a head start on his journey and is able to secure the Black Materia before the gang can even get there and poo poo spirals out of control Drakenguard alternate endings style. Though, to be fair, timeline fuckery is really more of a domain of Final Fantasy 8 so maybe we hang on to that for the FF8 remake fifteen years from now when the ff7 remakes are done.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:26
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They go through convoluted timeline fuckery just to bring Zack back, but the rest of the game plays out as normal, just with him T-posing in the background of every scene.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:36
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The different version of Scamp seems to point to the Zack stuff taking place in a third timeline.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:39
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Something I was thinking about yesterday is that I think the Whispers might've worked better for me if there was a clearer indication why things are going differently. For example, why were Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith early enough to the pillar that the Whispers needed to slow them down? Why was the fight on the pillar going so differently that the Whispers had to intervene to make sure Jessie died or Cloud didn't reach Biggs too quickly? Why were they harassing Aerith at the start of the game at all when her meeting with Cloud was on track to happen just fine? Maybe the explanation is as simple as "time-traveling Sephiroth/Jenova is here and therefore the Whispers exist now and are acting out of an abundance of caution" but either way it almost feels arbitrary. We don't see too many things happen on-screen to make it seem like things are actually going to go differently so it isn't clear why the Whispers have to intervene at all. There are definitely some exceptions but most of them have to do with Barret for some reason, like when he doesn't want to hire Cloud for the Sector 5 Reactor job or when he gets stabbed. Those make perfect sense as moments when the Whispers would need to intervene to keep things on track. I guess that's just a nitpick, though.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:45
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I am extremely down with them changing stuff up and the idea of using time ghosts as meta-aware stand-ins for people who wanted absolute fidelity from their remake is a cool idea, but I admit I will be a bit disappointed if it all just ends up devolving into a jumbled mess of parallel timelines. The whole setup would be much more interesting / focused if it was just the "canonical" timeline + a timeline resisting the concept of a concrete canon.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:47
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I couldn’t figure out what that “Seven Seconds” thing was referring to at the end. Wikipedia says it’s that Sephiroth gives Cloud seven seconds to change whatever he wanted, and so he saved Zach which unintentionally changed other things, like causing Biggs to survive. Dunno if that’s true but it’s a cleaner explanation than multiple coexisting timelines.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:52
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Ccs posted:I couldn’t figure out what that “Seven Seconds” thing was referring to at the end. Wikipedia says it’s that Sephiroth gives Cloud seven seconds to change whatever he wanted, and so he saved Zach which unintentionally changed other things, like causing Biggs to survive. Dunno if that’s true but it’s a cleaner explanation than multiple coexisting timelines. There's a fan theory about that line. In the original game, it takes Sephiroth seven seconds to descend from the sky and stab Aeris when he kills her. "Seven seconds... time enough for you, perhaps" is maybe Sephiroth saying "you'll have seven seconds to save her when the time comes"
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Apr 13, 2020 16:55
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Ccs posted:I couldn’t figure out what that “Seven Seconds” thing was referring to at the end. Wikipedia says it’s that Sephiroth gives Cloud seven seconds to change whatever he wanted, and so he saved Zach which unintentionally changed other things, like causing Biggs to survive. Dunno if that’s true but it’s a cleaner explanation than multiple coexisting timelines. That's as much a stretch as anything though, because I didn't get that impression at all. To be honest, any speculation on what he is talking about in that scene will have to wait until probably close to the ending of the second game to make sense.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:56
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Ccs posted:I couldn’t figure out what that “Seven Seconds” thing was referring to at the end. Wikipedia says it’s that Sephiroth gives Cloud seven seconds to change whatever he wanted, and so he saved Zach which unintentionally changed other things, like causing Biggs to survive. Dunno if that’s true but it’s a cleaner explanation than multiple coexisting timelines. Pay attention to the song that's playing when he says that. In the original, in the City of the Ancient's, someone went back and timed the cutscene where the gang finally catch back up to Aerith. The cutscene goes on for 7 seconds before Sephiroth skewers Aerith.
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Apr 13, 2020 16:59
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That theory sounded pretty silly to me when I heard it but I will admit that the musical cue lends it a bit more credence. But yeah the line seems basically tailor-made to spur a bunch of speculation between now and part 2.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:02
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I don’t know if it means anything, but I got serious Lost season 6/flash-sideways vibes a few times with Cloud having mental freakouts. Especially the one where he watches Aerith and doesn’t realize he’s crying. Add to that with Aerith acting like someone who’s “in the know”, and I’m wondering if it’s all gonna end with the cast at the Sector 5 church to “move on” together lmao
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Apr 13, 2020 17:25
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HD DAD posted:I don’t know if it means anything, but I got serious Lost season 6/flash-sideways vibes a few times with Cloud having mental freakouts. Especially the one where he watches Aerith and doesn’t realize he’s crying. Add to that with Aerith acting like someone who’s “in the know”, and I’m wondering if it’s all gonna end with the cast at the Sector 5 church to “move on” together lmao I'm going to guess game 2 deals with Cloud's background holes/Jenova psychosis earlier than we get to in the original. Hojo almost spilled the beans early in his lab as is. The only thing that stopped him was the Whispers dragging him away. With Aerith being plot-aware and the potential of Zack coming up, I predict that Cloud's Crazy will come up much earlier.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:54
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