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The report just confirms what I always thought during Corbyn's leadership. It was a waste of time to try bring the Blairites to his side. He should have purged them from the party after their failed coups. He was too patient, too polite. What Labour needed was a leader who could be rude, a man of steel resolve who could have purged those officials from the party.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:14
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https://twitter.com/Alex_Niven/status/1249728622400876544
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Apr 13, 2020 17:15
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Jose posted:gently caress sake A mealy-mouthed reply
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Apr 13, 2020 17:15
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i genuinely don't understand how anyone can expect things from Keir Starmer like he wasn't explicitly the right wing candidate of choice, did you really think they were putting their eggs in the Jess Phillips basket or what
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Apr 13, 2020 17:16
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Jose posted:gently caress sake You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. If you do most of the time you just end up drowning it.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:18
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Is this going to be how it is then? Reports into reports into reports because yes this navelgazing is exactly the pressing concern on people's minds right now.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:21
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Jose posted:gently caress sake lol imagine the field day everyone would have had if Corbyn had responded to someone leaking a report on anti semitism by saying "we're going to look into how this report was made, how it was leaked and maybe the allegations made in it, if we really must" just garbage wonder if we'll see the media condemning the labour party for being bad employers looking more to punish whistleblowers than the people who did the original misconduct, like when that panorama episode came out? lmao I mean, surely some of the whatsapp messages in are is enough prima facie evidence to at least suspend mcnicol and anyone else named in it that still has a membership until the allegations can be investigated (again). If an ordinary member can get done by the trot hunting squad for expressing sympathy with a green party policy on twitter, actual officers of the party can get done for not wanting us to win I don't see this doing anything at all to calm the tempers of the membership, whoever said he's going to gently caress it by doing a truth in the middle exercise was spot on
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Apr 13, 2020 17:22
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I'd have a lot more confidence in everybody involved in these daily updates if they didn't keep getting the loving acronyms wrong.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:26
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gh0stpinballa posted:i know people don't wanna hear this but there is a reason why the guys who robbed banks and blew up okhrana horses came out on top 100 years ago, and the guys who meekly asked the labour right to form a unity shadow cabinet are now exiled forever. The problem with the Bolsheviks isn't really how they came to power, it's much more what they did when they got it.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:28
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So LAAS are "taking legal counsel" and "collecting evidence of people sharing the report": https://www.facebook.com/265468330561803/posts/885247921917171/?d=n quote:LAAS Seeking Legal Action After Serious Data Breach Threatens Activist Safety I shared the link to it quite a lot on twitter. Am I getting sued, do you think? Are there actually legal grounds for that?
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Apr 13, 2020 17:31
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Red Oktober posted:If anyone wants a quick 'response to 5G claims' for someone posting trash on facebook or whatsapp I've pulled together a few sources from across the spectrum   
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Apr 13, 2020 17:31
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WhatEvil posted:So LAAS are "taking legal counsel" and "collecting evidence of people sharing the report": lol you've got to imagine they're livid that the report showed they viewed being mean to Trump as antisemitism.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:37
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:
for real they already declined to send it to the ehrc, they weren't going to publish or act on it otherwise, so the only thing going after the whistleblower is doing is confirming that they were planning to completely bury this. now that it's out in the open their only actual option is to actually do something about the allegations, and they're loving it for no discernible advantage. They can't put it back in the box, it's an extremely detailed internal report which they will never discredit in the eyes of the membership and the people involved are already out of their positions and completely compromised, so there's nothing about them to protect. this is such a loving weak response, not even really discussing the incredibly disturbing allegations which you'd think would be of some concern to e.g. the leader of the party who's potential electoral success was sabotaged, that it's possibly the worst thing they could have done. If they don't do a U-turn it will massively damage the enthusiasm of most of the membership, who's activism is allegedly our most important asset. How are we going to win the next election if we've not only got no money and no favourable media outlets, but also no activists? stupid bastards
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Apr 13, 2020 17:38
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Marenghi posted:What Labour needed was a leader who could be rude, a man of steel 
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Apr 13, 2020 17:40
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sassassin posted:The job guarantee can just be playing a government MMO so people still get that feeling of grinding and watching their numbers go up. I'm trying to picture what a 'government MMO' would look like. The closest I can think of is "Neo-XCOM with more bureaucracy and timers involved."
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Apr 13, 2020 17:41
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WhatEvil posted:So LAAS are "taking legal counsel" and "collecting evidence of people sharing the report":  VERY MUCH NOT LEGAL ADVICETheir claims of a GDPR breach are... tenuous, to say the least. There are a few things in there that are undoubtedly protected by DPA (names of complainants, for example) and they *may* have a case against the Labour Party as an entity as Data Controller for that information, and there's almost certainly personal liability for the person(s) who allowed the information to be leaked and the leakers. However as they were also incredibly vocal about the reports they were making at the time, it's unlikely they'll actually be able to get very far. They do not have grounds *under DPA* to go after those sharing the information once it was outside of the party's control *but* they may have grounds under our completely hosed up libel system to start a case. It could go either way if it went to court (an enterprising lawyer could probably find half a dozen other things they could throw at someone too), but it wouldn't be a cheap case to defend, and of course this has been a tactic to shut down people employed by those weaponising AS accusations in the past. VERY MUCH NOT LEGAL ADVICE
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Apr 13, 2020 17:43
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WhatEvil posted:So LAAS are "taking legal counsel" and "collecting evidence of people sharing the report": IANAL but legal liability for breaching data protection should only rest with organisations and persons responsible for protecting it, so the Labour Party and members of the team compling and reviewing the report as data controllers and processors may be liable but random people circulating this can't be in breach of data protection because they didn't hold those roles. You might still be liable under libel laws for sharing something saying things about identifiable people I suppose but that's something else entirely.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:44
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big scary monsters posted:I'm not normally one to nitpick people's writing... it's a slightly unusual name: it's Keir Starmer, e before i, not Kier. I think you'll find it must surely be Ceir.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:46
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XMNN posted:
This. I was talking to a former Labour MP who lost his seat in 2005, Post Iraq. He and his wife almost single-handedly leafleted the constituency (a geographically large constituency with 4+ large town in it not one of these small inner city ones) because there was no one else to do it, a very disheartening process. (Despite being a bit of a blairite, he was actually against Iraq and on the big million person march in London 2003.) Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 17:48
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XMNN posted:for real for what it's worth - I would guess there is a legit case to be made that the report would have legal implications; it sets out a case that pins one Labour Party body to exonerate another. Even if the Commission takes its entire factual narrative as given, both are still Labour Party bodies; conceding to misgovernance is still misgovernance. And the report is submitted in the name of the party and would be difficult to withdraw. conversely, EHRC submissions are not automatically public so it would have been buried under a thicket of judgment verbiage regardless. it is v likely that the factual narrative would be contested, in any case, but exactly how we don't know at this point ronya fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 17:49
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The stuff in the report about Diane Abbott really sticks with me - these people spouting thinly veiled racism in WhatsApp and laughing at her crying, a few months before that Amnesty report came out that said Abbott alone received almost half of all the Twitter abuse against female MPs. She got so much poo poo that she had her own category, and the party staff who ought to have been protecting and supporting her were right there doing the same stuff. It's so gross.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:55
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Bloodly posted:I'm trying to picture what a 'government MMO' would look like. The closest I can think of is "Neo-XCOM with more bureaucracy and timers involved." Take all the betting shops full of fixed odds machines and reprogram them so that on average they pay out 1/40th of a living wage for each hour they are played.
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Apr 13, 2020 17:56
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peeps should understand that PASOKification came about not just from a general distaste for centrist politics, it's because as centrist politics become hollower and hollower you end up with a load of stuff happening that disenfranchises their membership and leads to an inability to mobilise volunteers and voters and yet they continued on doing it, imo the labour party isn't any better than the PSOE or PASOK or PS (or any of the others)
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Apr 13, 2020 18:08
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Hearing that the four main suppliers of PPE in the UK have been restricting supplies to both Wales and Scotland, prioritising the NHS England and English Care homes, if that's true... yikes. https://twitter.com/gturner1969/status/1249674093076586496 Ash Crimson fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 18:16
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big scary monsters posted:I'm not normally one to nitpick people's writing, especially in a casual setting like this, cos when people do that it's usually as a lazy gotcha. But it seems no fucker, including Tweetman, can spell the name of the Labour leader. So I will point it out this once, not having a go at anyone specifically, because I keep seeing it and it's a slightly unusual name: it's Keir Starmer, e before i, not Kier.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:17
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I am hoping that this is going to do two things, first is further radicalise members. I think that seeing this can and should push people to get angrier, but alongside that I think that holding Starmers feet to the fire over this may well be what happens. The first instinct is to cover, the second is to blame those mentioned in it and I think it won't need too much pressure to start the latter.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:25
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So Vallance said at the daily briefing that they’re now considering advice for people to wear face masks, as they’ve seen “more persuasive data” that wearing face masks can help prevent infected people from passing the virus on, rather than protect people from getting it. I mean, Christ, just how behind the curve are these guys? I was reading that as far back as the end of February/start of March.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:25
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https://twitter.com/toubedavid/status/1249715238708133888?s=21 lol, that's the policy director of Quilliam getting mad about people whistleblowing racism.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:32
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Bored as hell of this lockdown now lads
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Apr 13, 2020 18:35
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Tarnop posted:It's a lot easier to understand if you don't think of it as self-sabotage. They're serving corporate interests, just like the Tories (mostly) do. Yeah, it's not realyl self sabotage when they don't see themselves as part of the thing they're sabotaging.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:36
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ronya posted:for what it's worth - I would guess there is a legit case to be made that the report would have legal implications; it sets out a case that pins one Labour Party body to exonerate another. Even if the Commission takes its entire factual narrative as given, both are still Labour Party bodies; conceding to misgovernance is still misgovernance. And the report is submitted in the name of the party and would be difficult to withdraw. Exactly - even if they fully accept what's in the report, the headline is still "Labour under Corbyn suppressed antisemitism complaints". There's an unspoken story in all of this of just how lovely the corporate structure of the party is - the fact that so much of the malfeasance here is stuff that should have been blindingly obvious if there'd been any kind of oversight or competent management going on. Much of my professional career has been in roles similar to the GLU and I can't imagine I'd have gotten away with a tenth of the poo poo that's in that report. Of course a big part of that is the inevitabl bloat of a political party of that size that isn't actually a single entity but is in fact dozens of groups flying in close (or not-so-close) formation, but if anything that should be increasing the amount of cross-checking and auditing going on.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:38
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https://twitter.com/socialistcam/status/1249731751636873216
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Apr 13, 2020 18:39
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Can't believe some of the poo poo I'm reading on twitter - people (from the right obviously) claiming the report shows the LEFT weren't interested in winning elections and so on. If they're from the right in general and by "the left" they mean the Labour Party, then they've got a point
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Apr 13, 2020 18:41
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Evergreen video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkY88kvkdvU I didn't join Labour but if these guys and/or Forward Momentum split then I will join them. Edit: Wait Corbyn and RLB haven't signed this! Wow are they really that bad? namesake fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 18:50
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baka kaba posted:If they're from the right in general and by "the left" they mean the Labour Party, then they've got a point I meant people who seem to be on the right of the LP.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:53
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Huh, this is Starmer's 1st real test as party leader and the signs so far are that he's fluffing it completely. There seems to be real fury about this across the party (not just in the UKMT!) and an anodyne statement that's mainly about how disappointed he is that the report got leaked really isn't going to cut it. I'm gonna assume that everyone's kinda disorganised 'cos it's the Easter break but if he doesn't come out with something more substantive tomorrow then lol.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:55
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namesake posted:
Given the investigation this leak came out of I imagine Corbyn is being careful about how he responds.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:58
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Exactly - even if they fully accept what's in the report, the headline is still "Labour under Corbyn suppressed antisemitism complaints". It's not that shocking as nonprofits go, I think; I have definitely read post-mortems of worse Reading the report clinically, the problem described is mission creep - from the report's own narrative, the Compliance Unit never saw itself as a enforcer of a code of conduct but instead an arm of the leader's office messaging discipline mechanism (this isn't entirely shocking given its historical context - its mission scope was to "handle" complaints against (mainly) the standard of not bringing the party into disrepute, rather than any specific commitment to a code of belief or conduct). This was only acceptable relative to the previous status quo of enforcement only through the elected committees, but not against a judicialized standard of equal, due, and timely process. The problem was always latent and the report describes several pre-2015 cases handled in an ad-hoc manner, but the issue exploded only when the enforcement mechanism was tested by volume (and then the corporate entity identified the problem, instituted measures X, Y, and Z which are monitored by the key indicators Q, R, and S, so we are certainly on top of the problem now yes-siree) (The v common department that would fail in exactly this manner is 'sustainability', which similarly naturally grows out of the communications office even if it would materially impact all of an ongoing concern's actual operations if it is to have any teeth. Expansive, ill-defined powers + carelessly defined mandated goals from the top, mainly communicated by press release + lack of understanding of core business = fun times for all involved)
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Apr 13, 2020 19:01
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I meant people who seem to be on the right of the LP. Oh right, classic deflection then? this looks bad... haha for you!!! like I wouldn't expect too many good faith responses from them, they're out to spin it so don't let them get to you
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Apr 13, 2020 19:20
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LOL der starmers report into the report isn't enough! We socialists demand our own report into the report!
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Apr 13, 2020 19:25
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