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I mean most racist people don't think they are racist; either because they have their own definition of what racism is that doesn't include their beliefs or that they live in their own bubble and don't understand the real world. Its why the most insidious racist people aren't the ones that are open and proud about their racism but instead are the ones that can con people into thinking that it isn't really racist and is instead something else. Big part of it is that no one wants to see themselves as the bad guy and they have the image of your racist person being the stereotypical segregation-era southern person which they probably aren't: and so don't like getting called that. IceAgeComing fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 12:57
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I mean, look at Meltzer defending the racism of guys like Lawler and Cornette. White people don't like even acknowledging it in others, let alone themselves.
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Apr 14, 2020 12:57
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Quid posted:I had someone (I think it may have been here) explain people like McMahon like MLK because they can twist his quote about "judged on the content of their character" to oppose affirmative action. It made sense, I also saw someone posit that he likes him because MLK wouldn't bow to Gov't pressure, which is also plausible
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Apr 14, 2020 13:48
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Most racists don't think they're racist at all, which is why you get that incredulous "Oh my god, you have to be kidding me!" reaction when you call them out on it. hulk hogan said he was racist
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Apr 14, 2020 13:57
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You have three choices. 1) I'm not racist, no one is racist, racism is dead, you're the real racist. 2) I'm racist but whatabout those other guys so we have to just get past it because you all think the same way I do. 3) Maybe I'm flawed in a way that is about me and not everyone else and I should change that and not make excuses or minimize it. People go back and forth on the first two but for some reason people don't like the 3rd option.
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Apr 14, 2020 14:00
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Racists are as stupid as they are inconsistent. My mom loves saying she can't stand racists yet pals around with people who stopped talking to her for weeks because my sister married a black man.
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Apr 14, 2020 17:01
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This is a pretty vague question with no real answer, but: at what age are wrestlers generally considered to be past their physical prime? I'm guessing late 30s/early 40s? What's the oldest somebody's managed to put on A+ matches? I guess this only really applies to technical workers, whereas brawlers can pretty much go forever, but even they'll slow up a lot once they hit a certain age, I'd assume. Answers Me fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 14, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 19:05
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It can vary wildly from person to person. The best expression I've heard to describe it is "It's not the age, it's the mileage"
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Apr 14, 2020 19:31
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I think Dustin Rhodes might hold the record now, at around 50. Misawa, Kobashi, Bret, Flair, and Hansen all pulled it off in their early 40s. Flair had multiple 5-star matches the year he turned 40, but that's Flair. Flair is also the epitome for working a style that wasn't lazy or boring at all but that helped his longevity. "It's the mileage" is very true.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:37
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nick bockwinkel was having great matches in his 50s
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Apr 14, 2020 19:40
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Negro Casas just turned 60 and is still having good matches
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Apr 14, 2020 19:53
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Atlantis' most recent mask matches came after age 50 and the big LA Park vs Rush matches were with Park at 50+. American wrestlers can't compete with Mexico.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:59
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Tanahashi is 43 but has enough injuries that he never took time off to fix that it's honestly a testament to how good he is that he still performs at the level he does. And also what a crowd's investment in someone can do for the perception of match quality.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:15
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Masato Tanaka is 47 and is having a Wrestler of the Year level year: his K-OD Title run has been really very good and while I'd not say he's at his physical prime he certainly can do everything he needs to and you don't notice any decline - and he's hardly someone that worked a safe style for most of his career, the scars on his forehead are evidence of that one. I think that's the thing that separates a good wrestler from a great one: they can tell when they're reaching the point of being unable to do a certain thing so phase it out at that point and develop something else that helps to mask what they are doing. That's the case for Suzuki I'd argue, for Tanahashi as well; really for anyone wrestling in their 40s and older at a very high level has that ability.
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Apr 14, 2020 20:25
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It depends on what you mean by 'past their prime'. Physically, it's no stretch to say 35-40 is probably the line, but wrestling has a lot more leeway than non-worked sports for people older than that to keep performing at a high level. As noted, Jericho, Dustin Rhods, MiSu, Liger, Flair and Bockwinkel all worked/work at a high level into their 50s (OK, Jericho isn't 50 yet, but unless he deteriorates significantly in the next 6 months...)
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Apr 14, 2020 20:57
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Answers Me posted:This is a pretty vague question with no real answer, but: at what age are wrestlers generally considered to be past their physical prime? I'm guessing late 30s/early 40s? What's the oldest somebody's managed to put on A+ matches? As a general rule I'd say physical peak is probably late 30s but there's plenty of guys who adapt to their aging and work a style that keeps them able to go past their physical prime and an inordinately high level. Masaaki Mochizuki turned 50 this year. Takashi Sugiura is 50 next month. Both guys are still able to go at such a high level though. Mochizuki vs Ben-K from last October's Korakuen Hall Dragongate show (8/10 if you want to see what I mean). But in DG he is in a lot of multiman tags so he'll have other guys doing the bumping and might only have to do fewer than 10 singles matches in a year. Mochizuki vs Kenoh in NOAH 28/8 last year is another fine example. Sugiura is an interesting one because he started relatively late, he was already 30nwhen he debuted. But last year he was in what I called my tag match of the year, teaming with Kazma Sakamoto against AXIZ. His title match against Kaito Kiyomiya from 9/6 was amazing and he was the standout in the N1 tournament last year.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:19
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is Flair the oldest to have a 5* match? he was 59 for the retirement match with Shawn
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Apr 15, 2020 00:31
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Dave only gave that 3.5 stars.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:50
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Dustin Rhodes was 50 for his match with Cody. Jericho was 47 for the Tokyo Dome match with Omega. Terry Funk was 45 for the I Quit match with Flair. I think those are the three oldest unless I'm missing someone obvious.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:56
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Julio Cruz posted:is Flair the oldest to have a 5* match? he was 59 for the retirement match with Shawn Flair's latest ***** match was the Wargames at Wrestlewar '91, where Flair was a day away from his 42nd birthday. I was shocked to discover Flair is actually nearly three years older than the next-oldest wrestler in that match (Larry Zbyszko). In terms of singles matches, I'm pretty sure Dustin in his match against Cody last year (he'd just turned 50) is the oldest wrestler to get five stars. Jericho was 47 when he wrestled Omega at WK12, Terry Funk was 45 for his match with Flair in 1989, and Suzuki was 44 versus Tanahashi at King of Pro Wrestling 2012. There are probably some other guys in their 40s (or maybe even 50s) who were in some tags that got ***** in the 1990s/early 2000s, but none of them jumped out at me, though admittedly I'm terrible with Japanese wrestlers ages; I thought Misawa might be a contender but he was only 46 when he died, and 41 when he had his last five star match in 2003.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:59
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Stan Hansen was 43 when he had his Budokan Hall match with Kobashi in 93. Tanahashi was still having a bunch of 5-ers after he hit his 40s, most recently against Omega last year.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:05
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Benne posted:Dustin Rhodes was 50 for his match with Cody. Jericho was 47 for the Tokyo Dome match with Omega. Terry Funk was 45 for the I Quit match with Flair. Giant Baba was 56 when Meltzer gave a six man tag he was in 5 stars, but he didn't play much of a part in that. Dustin is the oldest for singles match.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:12
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Ok, how about the youngest? Dream in the North American title ladder match?
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Apr 15, 2020 01:17
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I think it's still Rey
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Apr 15, 2020 01:25
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Dream was 22 when he did the ladder match. The real answer is probably A-Kid, who was only 20 when he had that match with ZSJ in Spain that put him on the map (and then promptly disappeared because NXT UK is where careers go to die). Rey Mysterio was 21 for his ECW match with Juventud Tyler Bate was 22 when he wrestled WALTER last year Will Ospreay was 24 for the BOSJ 2017 final with KUSHIDA Bandido was 24 for last year's BOSJ match with Ospreay
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Apr 15, 2020 01:26
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Also it will never stop being weird that Lars Sullivan has more 5* matches than Bryan Danielson
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Apr 15, 2020 01:31
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Benne posted:Also it will never stop being weird that Lars Sullivan has more 5* matches than Bryan Danielson Meltzer is wrong dammit. The Fight Without Honor vs Morishima is 5 stars, imo, as is the unification against Nigel
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Apr 15, 2020 01:53
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It may not have been a fast-paced masterpiece but Daniel Bryan squashing HHH at Mania 30 was five stars in my heart.
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Apr 15, 2020 03:11
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Flair vs Michaels is a mess of a match that Michaels holds together, and in retrospect "I'm sorry I love you" inspired a lot of really dumb ideas in HBK.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:06
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MassRafTer posted:Flair vs Michaels is a mess of a match that Michaels holds together, and in retrospect "I'm sorry I love you" inspired a lot of really dumb ideas in HBK. Even the post-match stuff got ruined by Flair going to TNA and making GBS threads up the ring for another 2 years
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Apr 15, 2020 04:11
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Honestly the best thing you can really say about Flair/Michaels is that it kickstarted maybe the best year of his second run by transitioning into the short Batista program, then the feud of the year with Jericho, the [ENTRY NOT FOUND] and finally leading into his match with Undertaker.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:26
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all Shawn Michaels matches are overrated
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Apr 15, 2020 11:33
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Low Desert Punk posted:all Shawn Michaels matches are overrated Not an empty quote
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Apr 15, 2020 11:38
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Nah Shawn really was always a great performer and spent much of his career dragging great matches out of mediocre talent
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Apr 15, 2020 11:39
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pretty amazing that HHH didn't politic himself into retiring flair
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Apr 15, 2020 12:01
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jesus WEP posted:Nah Shawn really was always a great performer and spent much of his career dragging great matches out of mediocre talent I just watched Wrestlemania IX last night, and I thought his match with Tatanka was surprisingly decent until the ending!
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Apr 15, 2020 12:38
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jesus WEP posted:Nah Shawn really was always a great performer and spent much of his career dragging great matches out of mediocre talent You can still be great & over-rated though. IE the Shawn Razor ladder match at Wrestlemania X is both extremely good & also over-rated because some people have claimed it was the best match on a show with Bret vs Owen which no. Sorry Dave Meltzer, you were wrong. Shawn was extremely good & had some great matches but he also did a lot of loving terrible stuff. Like the Undertaker & Flair WM matches in the late '00s. And that DX vs Spirit Squad poo poo was baaaaaaaaad. I LOVE COCK HAHAHA
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Apr 15, 2020 12:55
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I will say regarding shawn vs bret, bret hart's matches have aged way better than shawns
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Apr 15, 2020 13:00
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OFFICER LIGER posted:I will say regarding shawn vs bret, bret hart's matches have aged way better than shawns Going back and watching a few Bret matches, what I really appreciate is that there's rarely any wasted space in them; each movement has its purpose, whether it be foreshadowing a plot point or building up to the finish, and his finishes were usually really creative too. Then there are matches like the one with Yokozuna from Wrestlemania IX, which is also surprisingly good because he changed up his moveset, making him look like a really intelligent wrestler in kayfabe... well, until the ending anyway. As such I think I prefer Bret's matches to Shawn's too, but having gone through WWE's "Big Four" PPVs in order, it can't be overstated just how much of a breath of fresh air Shawn was. He's still growing at the point I'm at and I'm looking forward to seeing more.
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Apr 15, 2020 13:39
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I prefer Bret to Shawn as well, both as a human because of course, and as a wrestler. But I still think it’s super unfair to say that *all* of Shawn’s matches are overrated
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Apr 15, 2020 13:52
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