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Acebuckeye13 posted:My personal rankings of the best post-FDR Presidents: It's funny because Obama said that his role model for a president when he was coming into office was Truman. E: Actually I'm having trouble sourcing this claim, so take this with a grain of salt. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 04:15
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Truman was a good president who fought for policies that would still be considered progressive today (Check out his Fair Deal, it includes UHC!), and used his executive powers to do things he thought were right, like desegregating the Army and firing McArthur, even when they were unpopular. He was also probably the closest thing the office has seen to a "regular dude" in a long time, and his diary entries can be pretty amusing. Definitely an underrated President imo.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:16
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OddObserver posted:Given Oliver Stone is fascist loving scum, that sounds like an endorsement. Dammit I specifically asked this thread whether I should watch that miniseries and I got the green light 
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Apr 15, 2020 04:20
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I don't want to start a bomb derail, but man is this begging for a bomb derail Worth noting that it's because of Truman the President has sole authority to authorize the use of nuclear weapons—once given the bombs, it was the Army Air Force that decided on the timetable for the bombings, and moved up the second bombing to avoid having the attack delayed by the weather. Truman was subsequently surprised the second bombing happened so quickly, personally considering the gap between bombings too narrow for the Japanese government to reasonably react, and ordered a moratorium on atomic bombings without his expressed authority, which ultimately persists to this day. (There may be some slight inaccuracies to this, I've gotta check my copy of Command and Control) Also even if you're gonna be a massive cynic about things, Truman deserves to be above the "caused harm to the world" line for the Marshall Plan alone.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:22
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OddObserver posted:Given Oliver Stone is fascist loving scum, How so? I was not aware of that.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:42
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https://twitter.com/nick_ramsey/status/1250243854638501888 Thousands of people could die as a result of this, but don't worry, folks, Trump will be protected from the political fallout
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Apr 15, 2020 04:47
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We can note Truman firing MacArthur was a good thing, but were we actually right in supporting Rhee in South Korea in the first place? The Koreans were aiming for independence with the PRK but the USSR and US mutually crushed any hope of that, leading to the ongoing division of the peninsula today.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:49
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/nick_ramsey/status/1250243854638501888 He’s so loving stupid how do people not understand how loving stupid he is god drat what the gently caress
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Apr 15, 2020 04:49
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:How so? I was not aware of that. He has fawned praise upon Putin for starters.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:49
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Wasn't Truman the guy who used to whip his dong out in the middle of congress, among other places, to intimidate Reps/Senators??! I can't remeber, but feel as if its was in a documentary. Truman also being in a swinger lifestyle and banging chicks like only Clinton could dream of... But agreeing with Acebuckeye13, I feel most people will all know Truman as the guy who first hosed up the world dropping Atomic bombs and the irresponsibility he invoked along the way. Tho I am curious about the exact law when it comes to procedures for all presidents.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:52
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Undocumented Gamer posted:Wasn't Truman the guy who used to whip his dong out in the middle of congress, among other places, to intimidate Reps/Senators??! That was LBJ.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:53
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Undocumented Gamer posted:Wasn't Truman the guy who used to whip his dong out in the middle of congress, among other places, to intimidate Reps/Senators??! I can't remeber, but feel as if its was in a documentary. Truman also being in a swinger lifestyle and banging chicks like only Clinton could dream of... Nah that was LBJ. Also his dong had a name and it was Jumbo. Also the swinger stuff...you sure you're not thinking of Kennedy? Truman was a "my wife and I sleep in twin beds" kind of guy. Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 04:53
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Undocumented Gamer posted:Wasn't Truman the guy who used to whip his dong out in the middle of congress, among other places, to intimidate Reps/Senators??! I can't remeber, but feel as if its was in a documentary. Truman also being in a swinger lifestyle and banging chicks like only Clinton could dream of... Sounds like you're mixing up LBJ (dude with they dick out) and JFK (dude with they dick in) with Truman.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:54
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Undocumented Gamer posted:Wasn't Truman the guy who used to whip his dong out in the middle of congress, among other places, to intimidate Reps/Senators??! I can't remeber, but feel as if its was in a documentary. Truman also being in a swinger lifestyle and banging chicks like only Clinton could dream of... No that was LBJ and that was one of many of his "intimidation" tactics. Let me illustrate:  Also another of his favorite activities was taking people for a car ride around his ranch, in a car that could also be a boat, and scaring people by driving straight into the lake and making like they were gonna die before revealing the car's boating abilities. Yeah, LBJ was kind of a dick, literally. Handsome Ralph posted:Also the swinger stuff...you sure you're not thinking of Kennedy? Truman was a "my wife and I sleep in twin beds" kind of guy. Yeah Truman was a plain, small town midwestern guy from Missouri through and through. He and Johnson are our most rural 20th century presidents by far. VH4Ever fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 04:56
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:We can note Truman firing MacArthur was a good thing, but were we actually right in supporting Rhee in South Korea in the first place? The Koreans were aiming for independence with the PRK but the USSR and US mutually crushed any hope of that, leading to the ongoing division of the peninsula today. There's really no point in entertaining this line of thinking. What would the PRK have looked like 50 years down the road? South Korea didn't look like the giant success story it has become until more than 40 years after the war.
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Apr 15, 2020 04:59
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skylined! posted:Sounds like you're mixing up LBJ (dude with they dick out) and JFK (dude with they dick in) with Truman. Went back to a previous page and now realize Im mixing up Prez's. Yup. Truman bombs and LBJ with the Doc of being a ballsy congressman story and his rise to presidency. I need to find that again. ...also a little high and love when the chat goes all deep on Presidents lol
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Apr 15, 2020 05:04
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It's like the Captain Planet episodes where the villains create a super group, jfc
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Apr 15, 2020 05:05
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Arglebargle III posted:There's really no point in entertaining this line of thinking. What would the PRK have looked like 50 years down the road? South Korea didn't look like the giant success story it has become until more than 40 years after the war. Yeah it's impossible to tell what could have happened with a counterfactual. But it's also good to remember that the Korean War, like the US's other numerous foreign adventures in the Cold War, was an imperialist war serving the interests of the US first and foremost. The fact that things turned out well for the South, as you say, didn't come from the good will of the US but by the action of the Korean people wanting independence.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:07
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:We can note Truman firing MacArthur was a good thing, but were we actually right in supporting Rhee in South Korea in the first place? The Koreans were aiming for independence with the PRK but the USSR and US mutually crushed any hope of that, leading to the ongoing division of the peninsula today. I'll be honest, I feel I'd need to read a lot more into the Korean War (And a more in-depth biography of Truman) to give an educated answer to this question. With that said, from what I do know I can understand why he did it—with the world situation being what it was, Truman believed that stopping the invasion of North Korea was necessary to keep the peace elsewhere, and prevent similar Soviet-backed invasions into places like Yugoslavia.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:11
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:Yeah it's impossible to tell what could have happened with a counterfactual. But it's also good to remember that the Korean War, like the US's other numerous foreign adventures in the Cold War, was an imperialist war serving the interests of the US first and foremost. The fact that things turned out well for the South, as you say, didn't come from the good will of the US but by the action of the Korean people wanting independence. This is an insane and stupid counterfactual. North Korea invaded South Korea first. Also pretty sure Korean people at the time didn’t choose to be part of the DPRK much like they didn’t choose to be part of the ROK.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:15
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Solaris 2.0 posted:This is an insane and stupid counterfactual. North Korea invaded South Korea first. and there were a solid twenty years minimum there where you could convincingly argue North Korea was the wealthier and freer of the two advocating for democracy in South Korea was a great way to come down with a bullet to the head for quite a while there
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Apr 15, 2020 05:17
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:and there were a solid twenty years minimum there where you could convincingly argue North Korea was the wealthier and freer of the two That doesn’t change the fact that North Korea invaded first...
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Apr 15, 2020 05:19
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Makes me wonder who's the most recent president who was better than Obama. Carter, maybe? LBJ? The most recent president who I can confidently describe as preferable to Obama is FDR Y'all's theory of the executive is bad. The last good man as president was Carter, the last reasonably OK president was Eisenhower. Since Neoliberalism has ascended, there has only been one administration, and Trump is worse than Obama is worse than Bush etc back to Reagan, because the sins of the office are compounding until someone chooses to wash them away.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:20
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I'll be honest, I feel I'd need to read a lot more into the Korean War (And a more in-depth biography of Truman) to give an educated answer to this question. With that said, from what I do know I can understand why he did it—with the world situation being what it was, Truman believed that stopping the invasion of North Korea was necessary to keep the peace elsewhere, and prevent similar Soviet-backed invasions into places like Yugoslavia. Domino Theory. But why do you bring up Yugoslavia as your example? Why would the US try to prevent an invasion in Yugoslavia anyway? It's true that Tito broke with Stalin and received American aid. But where did you read that the US was actually afraid of a takeover? Yugoslavia was communist, condemned NATO and shot down US planes. And it seems Truman was wrong in his calculation on domino theory, because Castro and Fidel took Cuba, the Viet Minh took North Vietnam etc., communism continued to spread despite the intervention in Korea. The peace was not kept. Nobody's perfect - especially when it comes to world leaders - but that's certainly a failing.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:24
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Koalas March posted:Can't really form a union because I'm just renting from some slum Lord how owns random houses in the area and I don't know where exactly or who they are ugh Property tax records should be public, and might be available online.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:26
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The last good president was Harrison.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:26
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Solaris 2.0 posted:This is an insane and stupid counterfactual. North Korea invaded South Korea first. If the Korean people didn't want to be ruled by either then why would it matter if one defeated the other or vice versa? Ruled by an authoritarian DPRK they didn't want or an authoritarian ROK they didn't want? It was a game of power between the USSR and the US, who invaded first only mattered for their political games between each other. The concerns of the Korean people were always secondary.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:29
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Push El Burrito posted:The last good president was Harrison. Benjamin or William Henry?
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Apr 15, 2020 05:30
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Car Hater posted:Y'all's theory of the executive is bad. The last good man as president was Carter, the last reasonably OK president was Eisenhower. Since Neoliberalism has ascended, there has only been one administration, and Trump is worse than Obama is worse than Bush etc back to Reagan, because the sins of the office are compounding until someone chooses to wash them away. Neither Obama nor Trump were/are worse than Bush II. Everybody needs to seriously unfuck their perspective. Bush II has the blood of millions on his hands. All three are/were terrible (yes, even Obama). Bush was easily the worst. I agree with your overall point though - there is "compounding interest" in terms of the country's shittiness.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:35
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:Domino Theory. To answer my question, I found this source* going into some detail for why the US supported Yugoslavia and gave aid to prevent Soviet invasion. Basically, Yugoslavia was an asset simply because it would not obey the Warsaw Pact so in case of war with the USSR the US didn't need to fight them. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that. * It's a JSTOR link but you can read it for free if you sign in.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:42
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You know if it weren't for science fiction I think our brains wouldn't be so broken as to ever hope for good things.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:50
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https://mobile.twitter.com/JesseLehrich/status/1250112586093387776
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Apr 15, 2020 05:53
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Flying-PCP posted:You know if it weren't for science fiction I think our brains wouldn't be so broken as to ever hope for good things. Are we counting West Wing as "Science fiction?" Because drat did Sorkin break a lot of brains
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Apr 15, 2020 05:54
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Majorian posted:Neither Obama nor Trump were/are worse than Bush II. Everybody needs to seriously unfuck their perspective. Bush II has the blood of millions on his hands. All three are/were terrible (yes, even Obama). Bush was easily the worst. Pretend I put Michelle hugging That's Our Georgie here. Hell as far as I care, OBAMA IS BUSH, ONE HAND WASHES THE OTHER.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:55
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WOWEE ZOWEE posted:Domino Theory. Had the Soviet Union invaded Yugoslavia (Which was a very real concern), it is likely the US would have felt the need to intervene in some way—the country bordered two vulnerable NATO members (Greece and Italy), and though Tito was a communist, he was very publicly not controlled by Stalin. Had push come to shove, preventing Soviet expansion was more important than ideological differences with Tito, and the US and Soviet Union could have easily come into conflict over the Balkans. And in intervening in the Korean War, that's what the US truly hoped to prevent—stop them from doing this here, so that they don't go bigger and bolder somewhere else. And arguably, it did work—communist insurgencies continued to happen, but direct Soviet military interventions outside of the existing Communist sphere were deterred (With the biggest exceptions being the Cuban Missile Crisis, in which the Soviets were pressured to back off, and their intervention into Afghanistan). While looking up some stuff for this reply, I actually found this article from the in-house NSA magazine: Dodging Armageddon: The Third World War That Almost Was, 1950. It is, being the in-house NSA magazine, hilariously slanted, but it does offer some insight into what the US was thinking at the time, and what we believed the Soviets to be doing.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:57
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Thank you, this is a good post.
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Apr 15, 2020 06:10
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Majorian posted:Neither Obama nor Trump were/are worse than Bush II AND CHENEY. Fixed that for you. Seriously, I really feel like Bush is like a reversed George Lucas back before the prequels: Lucas got all the credit for Star Wars being, well, Star Wars when it was really a collective effort and he arguably wasn't even the big mover and shaker, and Bush gets all the blame.
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Apr 15, 2020 06:13
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Seriously, imagine if Iran had decided to escalate after Trump's strike. At that point they were weeks from their huge Coronavirus outbreak. Imagine if that happened during a war, and imagine what would have happened when it got to our troops in the area. We were drat close to that timeline and only really saved by the Iranians decision-making
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Apr 15, 2020 06:17
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Majorian posted:Neither Obama nor Trump were/are worse than Bush II. Everybody needs to seriously unfuck their perspective. Bush II has the blood of millions on his hands. All three are/were terrible (yes, even Obama). Bush was easily the worst. while in November I'd have agreed with you that Trump would have to put in some worm to be worse than Bush, we're early in this whole coronavirus thing and I'm not actually too sure Trump will wind up with a lower body count. Relevantly, https://twitter.com/ksieff/status/1250197488159600640 also what glumslinger said about Trump flirting with an Iran war before and during the worst time possible
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Apr 15, 2020 06:21
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John Quincy Adams is underrated
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Apr 15, 2020 06:25
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