|
I still don't understand the ending, like did they change if Zack died? is Jessie still dead? Did Wedge seriously die from ghosts pushing him out of a window?
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 13:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 01:05 |
|
|
lezard_valeth posted:I can't believe Tifa is winning in the unspoiled thread vote...y'all deserve a smack My girlfriend's been watching me play through the story and she's become an Aerith superfan She also didn't know anything about the plot of FFVII going in beyond "oh this is the one with Cloud and Sephiroth" so she doesn't know what happens (and will probably still happen) 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:13
|
|
|
DeathSandwich posted:I know there was talk earlier about Nomura and how everyone either fairly or unfairly blames him for all the bizarre poo poo that happens. In my mind I view him kind of like a George Lucas or Billy Corgan type figure - namely creative figures that they do their best work when they have a team around them who will tell them "No, thats stupid" and keep them on track. I feel like they did a pretty good job keeping him focused for a while and by the end he started getting restless and said "But what if after they escape midgar, rather than being kind of aimless and defeated, they have a climactic anime battle with the gestalt personification of Final Fantasy 7s story canon instead?" and nobody could dissuade him from it. It's one of those things that sounds dumb and that I should hate, but it's just so absurd and bonkers in execution that it rounds the corner and becomes deeply entertaining to me. Kind of like how some people can know Professional Wrestling is scripted bullshit but wind up loving it anyway because there's an undead biker lich suplexing a comic book superhero through a flaming table. Yup, that’s the exact point I’m trying to make. The ending is dumb for the exact same reason pro wrestling is dumb. It’s also great for the exact same reason pro wrestling is great. Dumb != bad. This game doesn’t need to be taken so seriously. Golden Goat posted:I still don't understand the ending, like did they change if Zack died? Maybe! quote:is Jessie still dead? Maybe not! quote:Did Wedge seriously die from ghosts pushing him out of a window? I sure as gently caress hope not!
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:17
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Maybe! Lol none of this helps! I'm kinda loving how the ending just goes wild. I was wondering how they were going to finish the game and was honestly worried they were just going to end it on that dumb bike fight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:26
|
|
|
Before the game came out I figured there'd be a Jenova fight or something like that to cap off the motorcycle chase and provide a good final boss fight. I set that bar way too low, it seems!
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:33
|
|
|
Golden Goat posted:Lol none of this helps! It doesn't, I know  quote:I'm kinda loving how the ending just goes wild. I was wondering how they were going to finish the game and was honestly worried they were just going to end it on that dumb bike fight. I would have been disappointed if it was just the normal end to Midgar. It's a 40-hour game, I needed a climactic end of some sort to feel satisfied, and this worked perfectly well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:36
|
|
|
FF7's story already exists so I'm glad they decided to go in a more interesting direction! I think they telegraphed a lot of cool stuff and while I think it was a touch underdeveloped I am ultimately interested in the direction they intend to go. Interestingly, the remake was never called part one, so I do fully expect cross platform multiple game storytelling. I think, however, undeniably, the best parts of the story stuck close to the source material and expanded on it. I think that would have been a more interesting direction, or at least, a less interesting direction with a better execution.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:36
|
|
|
Just to post more to head off the "NOMURA!" Rage train, like... everyone involved is on board with this stuff. Source: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-7-remake-developer-want-the-saga-to-/1100-6474177/ I think it's important to remember most people working on this game also made the original... and no creator ever wants to essentially do their own work again, it's why so many get outsourced to other studio's to do the legwork.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:39
|
|
|
They closely recreated the most important part of the remake, which is Midgar. That's all I personally needed. The rest, I'm more interested in seeing what new things they can add and what adjustments they can make. If this was the only game we ever got, I'd be sad, but not quite disappointed. Luckily, this game is doing gangbusters and they're apparently making more.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:39
|
|
|
This is what Zack wakes up to after all the whispers die Same post plate Midgar, suspect time fuckery or multiverse. Sephiroth did just absorb Meteor, after all
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:39
|
|
|
Kill All Cops posted:This is what Zack wakes up to after all the whispers die Did...did he get fuckin time warped? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:42
|
|
|
So I know about the 'no items' thing for Hard mode - are there any other major differences besides that and more VR mission stuff? Different fights or whatnot?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:43
|
|
|
DeathSandwich posted:So I know about the 'no items' thing for Hard mode - are there any other major differences besides that and more VR mission stuff? Different fights or whatnot? There are some changes to aggression and attacks. The best and most notable to me was hell house punting Tonberries out the door.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:46
|
|
|
DeathSandwich posted:So I know about the 'no items' thing for Hard mode - are there any other major differences besides that and more VR mission stuff? Different fights or whatnot? Some bosses have different/extra movesets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:47
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Did...did he get fuckin time warped? I don't know if HE timewarped, from the looks of it, it's coinciding with the death of the Arbiters of Fate. I guess they're not a linear being, being killed at any point kills them at all points. No idea what that means for Midgar, beyond them all being dead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:47
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Did...did he get fuckin time warped? Not even that long of a warp, all of Midgar takes like three and a halfish days.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:47
|
|
|
StealthArcher posted:Not even that long of a warp, all of Midgar takes like three and a halfish days. This, also Zack was killed like... a few days? A week? Before FF7 begins. Time between Zack Dying, Tifa Finding Cloud and Cloud going on the first bombing run is vague but extremely short.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:48
|
|
|
Holy gently caress the Airbuster fight, especially with the music, was truly an epic fight. And that word is thrown around too much, but it really was. Way, way better than the fight in the original game, that's for sure.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:51
|
|
|
I can't see it too well, but how would yo know that's post-plate and not pre-plate?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:55
|
|
|
DrNutt posted:I actually really liked the setting and the two party mild puzzle deal they had going on, almost felt like an RE game at points, it just dragged on by the third ward. Luckily that snakeipede fight was dope as gently caress. My specific complain about this section is that (at that point) having two separate parties means you were juggling materia every time they switched because good luck having 4 maxed copies of the essential materia
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 14:56
|
|
|
Happy Noodle Boy posted:My specific complain about this section is that (at that point) having two separate parties means you were juggling materia every time they switched because good luck having 4 maxed copies of the essential materia I didn't really have that issue because you didn't really need to have everything maxed to have effective loadouts, at least on normal. And even then I had two maxed heals and a 4/5 prayer, and enough elementals at 2/3 to keep the parties well equipped. Stuff like Firaga/Thundaga was used real sparingly because it's so costly, usually the 1-2 levels are enough to put pressure on so you can use non-MP combat abilities to get the stagger. However I stand by that the game really could have used loadouts/weapon switching on the fly and especially in that section.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:03
|
|
|
Maybe the next game we get two timelines, one we mostly know and a new one? Team A: FF7 crew. Team B: Zack, the remaining Avalanche members, the Turks, and Rufus.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:10
|
|
|
This scene is going to be wild in the remake. I'm guessing it'll be mostly about fate and the will of the world, and less about the lifestream (since the lifestream explanation already happened in this installment.) I doubt we've seen the end of the whispers/arbiters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:10
|
|
|
Pladdicus posted:FF7's story already exists so I'm glad they decided to go in a more interesting direction! I think they telegraphed a lot of cool stuff and while I think it was a touch underdeveloped I am ultimately interested in the direction they intend to go. Interestingly, the remake was never called part one, so I do fully expect cross platform multiple game storytelling. I agree. The arbiters of fate are the epitome of "Lol, nerds hate change" (And they loving do); and on average people got so worked up on that, that they miss the really good question that the game posits to you, the player, rather than Avalanche as a whole: "If you could do it all over again, would you do anything different?" I think, and forgive me for wording it weird, is that the game itself seeks to ask US the players as a whole a good question regarding what we know of in-game events: Do you continue to stay in the current timeline ala the Arbiters of Fate, lose Aerith and guarantee that Sephiroth dies and the world is saved? Do you find a way to keep Aerith alive even if it means that your victory over Sephiroth is now no longer guaranteed or that his plans may change drastically now that Aerith could live longer than her predestined death? I really like the ideas the remake is setting the stage for. The only problem is contact with the playerbase who will have the exact same problem The Legend of Korra did: You have to sell the idea of change to nerds, who as a whole, approach change like it's a Bengal Tiger.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:12
|
|
|
As long as Aeris dies, Cloud goes insane and Sephirot is meta-godding in the crater the remake will be good.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:16
|
|
|
I think the developers are giving players hope that Aerith finds a way to survive to the end of the story. It's vague enough to have it go both ways at this point. It's certainly better than following everything 1:1 with the original, then have something completely random like Cloud dies at the Forgotten City to thrust Zack as the main hero then he scores with Aerith in the end.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:19
|
|
|
I made the mistake of looking at the resetera spoiler thread, and there's some white hot fire in there. Some people really do not like the ending. It did however have this beauty:  It's actually the opposite of lame, stupid ghosts. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Apr 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:20
|
|
|
Kill All Cops posted:This is what Zack wakes up to after all the whispers die The Dave posted:I can't see it too well, but how would yo know that's post-plate and not pre-plate? There appears to be a gap in the outer wall where part of it is missing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:22
|
|
|
There will definitely be some different themes explored this time around if the story does diverge, especially if Aerith either doesn't die or dies in a different way. One big thing with Aerith's original death was that it sorta came out of nowhere and, at least in the moment, was meaningless. She wasn't heroically sacrificing herself or anything--she was murdered. She ended up being able to save the world as a result, or at least it's strongly implied that she did, but she didn't know that at the time she was killed. That whole moment was about how death is sometimes just meaningless and lovely and hurts and you just have to find a way to keep living without that person. If, in the remake, Aerith survives there and things get worse and she has to consciously sacrifice herself, that's thematically very different. Not bad, of course, but it's definitely a different road to explore. The ending of part 1 definitely asks a pretty interesting question, though. As players of the original, we know that if the characters just follow the paths expected of them, everything will turn out well. Maybe not for each of them on a personal level, but for the world as a whole, it's a pretty happy ending. But is "pretty happy" the best they should hope for? Even if they got the message from the Whispers, loud and clear, that "hey if you let us do our thing and follow fate you will save the world!!!", are they obligated to listen, or can they dare hope for even better? The question Tactless Ogre identified--"if you could do it all again, would you do anything different?"--is kind of great for a remake, and it's kind of cool that they're asking that question both of the characters in-universe, and of themselves as creators, and of us as players.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:26
|
|
|
Yeah, Zack dying and the beginning of Final Fantasy 7 is like, a week. If I had to guess how they retcon Cloud to still be in the right place with the sword is that after dragging cloud to Midgar, Zack finally succumbs to his wounds and falls comatose somewhere in one of the other sectors and is in recovery. While that is happening, Cloud still has his dissociation, assumes Zack's identity and steals his sword while Zack is zonked out, and then wanders to sector 7 to be found by Tifa. My though on the next game or potential DLC for this game is Zack finally coming to after the Sector 7 plate falls, realizing his sword and Cloud are missing and trying to figure out what's up and following their footsteps after the gang already ascends to Shinra tower. Once he finds out Aerith is with them, he can't not give chase considering she was the whole impetus of wanting to go back to Midgar. If Zack catches up in the next game, I'm figuring cloud has a total dissociative break and Tifa has to pull him back together way earlier than they did in the OG.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:33
|
|
|
Harrow posted:The ending of part 1 definitely asks a pretty interesting question, though. As players of the original, we know that if the characters just follow the paths expected of them, everything will turn out well. Maybe not for each of them on a personal level, but for the world as a whole, it's a pretty happy ending. Kinda reminds the premise of FFX - if the party goes through the motions, Sin is banished for a while, but it requires heavy personal sacrifice. What if we defy that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:35
|
|
|
Or Zack is one of those sick guys/Sephiroth puppets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:39
|
|
|
Like the games theme song is really, REALLY explicit in the emotion it's asking you to consider https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op59nu5sIwk quote:In early planning stages of Final Fantasy VII, Aerith was to be one of only three protagonists; herself, Cloud and Barret. During a phone call to Kitase, it was suggested that at some point in the game, one of the main characters should die, and after much discussion as to whether it should be Barret or Aerith, the producers chose Aerith. Nomura stated in a 2005 Electronic Gaming Monthly interview: "Cloud's the main character, so you can't really kill him. And Barrett... well, that's maybe too obvious." While designing Final Fantasy VII, Nomura was frustrated with the "perennial cliché where the protagonist loves someone very much and so has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love." He found this trope appeared in both films and video games from North America and Japan, and asked "Is it right to set such an example to people?" Kitase concluded: "In the real world things are very different. You just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling but great emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think, 'If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently.' These are the feelings I wanted to arouse in the players with Aerith's death relatively early in the game. Feelings of reality and not Hollywood." quote:Was it all a dream? Will I never know? Man... I don't know what they're gonna do. And I love it. I love that I have no answer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:42
|
|
|
Azubah posted:Or Zack is one of those sick guys/Sephiroth puppets. I don't think so. Wasn't one of the big plot points in Crisis Core that he was immune/resistant or somehow responded differently to the Jenova treatments in a way that Cloud wasn't?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:42
|
|
|
I can't wait for the Tim Rogers review of this. He's planning to have it out by the end of the month after he finishes a third playthrough in Japanese because he's Tim Rogers so of course. He's been very open about the fact that he unreservedly loves the whole thing on Twitter
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:47
|
|
|
It's been a while since I've played it, I remember it hosed him up for a while but he snapped out of it earlier than Cloud. I did keep on waiting for the reveal on Cloud's left should to have a number, guess that'll be closer when he remembers everything correctly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:48
|
|
|
Small thing, but I really enjoy what they did with both "J-E-N-O-V-A" and "One-Winged Angel" in this remake. Both have multiple versions over the phases of their respective boss fights that sort of tease you with parts of the full theme amid variations, but never really get there. Phase 2, it's a little closer, but it still holds back. Then in the final phase it hits and it's such a "gently caress yeah" moment.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Small thing, but I really enjoy what they did with both "J-E-N-O-V-A" and "One-Winged Angel" in this remake. Both have multiple versions over the phases of their respective boss fights that sort of tease you with parts of the full theme amid variations, but never really get there. Phase 2, it's a little closer, but it still holds back. Then in the final phase it hits and it's such a "gently caress yeah" moment. I dragged the fight out just so I could keep listening to it. It was loving stupid of me to do that. Yet my inner 9 year old was 
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:57
|
|
|
CottonWolf posted:Fair. It's a big gamble going from 0% chance of the world ending to ?% chance of the world ending, but I also get not wanting to die. I'm late to this but Aerith also believes it's a big big gamble. She repeatedly says so before you go into the final battle. She even refers to the freedom they'll win as "Terrifying and vast, like an endless blue sky." She's even unsure of it in the end. The final line in the game is her saying "I miss that steel sky..." referencing that scary new freedom they've earned. Even in the end she's not sure they've done the right thing, but it's at least them doing their own thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 15:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 01:05 |
|
|
I'm expecting them to gently caress with us during the big Aerith scene, like everything happens as before, Cloud trying to kill Aerith and everything then he stops. Then they get Holy sigh how everything went right, Tifa grabs the Materia then bam, she is stabbed. Or they pull a Star Trek Into Darkness and Cloud dies and he needs to be resurrected with the blood of Moogles.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2020 16:06
|
|
