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Cyrano4747 posted:OK, second question: they call for whole wheat flower. Is that fully necessary? I've got a ton of AP white and I don't object to getting some whole wheat, but my local stores are picked the gently caress over for flour. If I really need the whole wheat I can just punt on this until after the 'rona, but I'm kind of stuck at home right now so I have time to get started on it. You absolutely do not need to use whole wheat flour. I almost never do for starting a sourdough starter because there's so much extra fat and nutrients that they can spoil more quickly. Additionally, if you have even a pinch of commercial yeast, you can start it with that and then just never worry about it, plus have a starter that's ready to leaven bread in as little as a couple of hours. The vast majority of sourdough benefits come, for the most part, from longer or slower fementations (rises), with the bacteria providing a sour tang once your starter gets going. After a few days, your starter will be as sour as anything you started from scratch.
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Apr 13, 2020 18:51
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I start mine on rye and feed it a little more every few feedings because I like the little bit of flavor it gives, but that's just me.
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Apr 14, 2020 09:08
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Liquid Communism posted:I start mine on rye and feed it a little more every few feedings because I like the little bit of flavor it gives, but that's just me. I add a bunch of weird flour to my starter, and to my bread in general. Emmer, rye (multiple varieties of, even), einkorn, triticale, heirloom wheats, odd grinds like Graham flour. Even seeds and nuts, because they might not contribute gluten, but they do contribute microbes and flavors. Spelt is Excellent, as is rye. I think I could eat a 5% spelt 5% rye country blonde every day without getting tired of it.
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Apr 14, 2020 11:42
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I had been using soft whole grain white to feed mine a while since I hardly make things appropriate for soft wheat.
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Apr 14, 2020 13:33
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I used my kitchenaid mixer to make two separate single batches of dough. It kept resisting and the motor smelled like it was burning up a little. I checked it out afterwards and couldn’t figure out what was wrong since I’d done double batches of dough before for the full seven minutes and never had a problem and figured out I used the flat beater instead of the dough hook. Anybody think I’ve done permanent damage to the mixer? 
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Apr 14, 2020 18:42
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Just made my first bread ever. Not sure I kneaded it enough, how can I tell? Regardless I'll know how it turns out in 30 minutes
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Apr 14, 2020 19:20
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bartlebee posted:I used my kitchenaid mixer to make two separate single batches of dough. It kept resisting and the motor smelled like it was burning up a little. I checked it out afterwards and couldn’t figure out what was wrong since I’d done double batches of dough before for the full seven minutes and never had a problem and figured out I used the flat beater instead of the dough hook. Anybody think I’ve done permanent damage to the mixer? Kitchenaid mixers of the past few decades have been built by Whirlpool and aren't as robust as they used to be. My mother's Kitchenaid comes from around 1980 or so and is just now needing some new grease. It can knead just fine. Mine is an an entry-level, tilt-head model (Artisan?) from early 2000. I've had to replace the motor and it's been taken off of bread duty. I think people have some more luck with the more-expensive models, but I see a lot more complaints than anything. The entry-level models don't have anything like a transmission and pretty much just jack up the motor more and more as you increase the speed. I figured they were all like this, but I saw a few part diagrams that show at least some kind of gearing change in the better ones. I know my 20-quart Hobart from ancient times has a 3-speed mechanical transmission and it would crush my hand on speed 1 if the worm gear wasn't meant to grind itself out first as a safety. What I picked up from elsewhere is that there's a recommended cycle time when using the newer mixers. It's something like a 15-minute cycle of 5-on and 10-off. It might even by 5-on and 15-off; I didn't write it down while I was seeing it because I wasn't interested in that model. You can take a counterpoint to this from America's Test Kitchen who recommended the ~$650 model recently, but you'd be amused to see the YouTube discussion afterwards about that.
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Apr 14, 2020 22:14
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Many pages back there was a biscuit discussion where someone mentioned cutting the frozen butter into tiny cubes and how well it works. Well, I made some biscuits with grated butter this morning and they were pretty good. Trying ones with cubed butter tonight with dinner. Relationship with pizza dough is over. Now biscuits are my best friend.
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Apr 14, 2020 23:07
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The butter cubes were a mistake. Grated butter is my truth.
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Apr 15, 2020 02:54
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bartlebee posted:I used my kitchenaid mixer to make two separate single batches of dough. It kept resisting and the motor smelled like it was burning up a little. I checked it out afterwards and couldn’t figure out what was wrong since I’d done double batches of dough before for the full seven minutes and never had a problem and figured out I used the flat beater instead of the dough hook. Anybody think I’ve done permanent damage to the mixer? Maybe! I burned out a KitchenAid motor on bread dough. Now I always stay by it in case it smells like burning or sounds like grinding so I can turn it off. On the other hand, I've also had that smell and then gone years without a problem, so who knows. You'll find out when it stops working or doesn't. Sorry that's not much help!
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Apr 15, 2020 04:20
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Having it smell a little isn't necessarily bad in a one-off thing but that'll probably kick its rear end if you keep doing it. I found out a little bit more. KitchenAid recommends only kneading at exactly speed 2. Here's their formal bit: https://producthelp.kitchenaid.com/Countertop_Appliances/Stand_Mixers/Mixer_Performance/Kneading_Times_and_Speeds_-_Stand_Mixer quote:
I saw somewhere else the normal duty cycle is 10 minutes on, 20 minutes off. I guess that's where the 5 minutes on, 10 minutes off comes from.
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Apr 15, 2020 06:13
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Having it smell a little isn't necessarily bad in a one-off thing but that'll probably kick its rear end if you keep doing it. I found out a little bit more. KitchenAid recommends only kneading at exactly speed 2. Here's their formal bit: I think I read this somewhere before. I only knead on 2 and have never had issues. I don't make huge loaves though, usually around 5-600 grams of flour.
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Apr 15, 2020 08:36
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Jan posted:I was under the impression that freezing yeast kills it, but I should probably have researched that before assuming it, especially considering how impossible it is to kill a starter culture. This is called fool's crumb (rude!), I had it when I started and have since gotten rid of it. I ended up adding some slap-and-fold at the beginning of my bulk ferment, as well as making sure I used my levain at the top of its rise (for me that's around 10 hours of rising) and it seemed to solve the problem. EDIT: just noticed you are using yeast not levain, it is definitely a sign of underproofed dough
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Apr 15, 2020 17:19
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My wife has a starter made with all AP flour that she's had going for about 9 days. It doesn't seem to be bubbling too much but it's definitely doing something as she's had to pour off a layer of hooch a few times. It gets fed regularly with more AP flour and water. She's been following the Serious Eats day-by-day guide but we're not sure what we should be looking for. A few questions: Should the starter be expanding? Or should the volume it displaces really just add up to the amount of starter and flour/water that is added when it's fed? It's currently in a large mason jar. She's been covering it with plastic wrap; is this okay? Could we use a screw-top lid, or should it be open to the elements? Any and all advice welcome on how we can get this thing going.
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Apr 15, 2020 17:55
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There's a king author one linked above, go with that. It shouldn't take a week to finally discard any of the starter. Your starter should increase in volume. Don't stir it between feedings, it'll be harder to determine the health. E- don't toss what you have, but just throw 20g of it in a new jar and add 50g flour/water, mix it up, and see how much it rises. Hooch isn't bad, just means you need to refresh it.
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Apr 15, 2020 18:31
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I’m getting ready to start the seed culture for the New York Deli Rye from The Bread Baker’s Apprentice, and I’m wondering what’ll happen if I use dark rye flour instead of the white/light rye flour the recipe calls for to make the bread? Will it gently caress it up? Nobody in my area sells the white/light flour, and Amazon would take 2 weeks to deliver it (which is about how long the culture and barm are gonna take to make anyway, but still).
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Apr 16, 2020 01:47
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It wont ruin it but it will change the texture and rise etc. The loaf will end up more dense I'm guessing and fermentation time will go down because of the extra nutrition in the whole rye. If you have some sifters you came pass the whole rye through them and try to lighten it that way
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Apr 16, 2020 03:54
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When you guys are trying to get a starter going, what's the general consistency that it should be? I've been following the instructions linked on the last page and after a 3 days in it's starting to smell right, but I'm not seeing much in the way of bubbles or expansion. The starter is super thick. Like. . . . not quite pasta dough thick, but stickier and stretchier than say a typical bread dough. I've been doing the 1/2 cup reserved starter, 1 cup flour, 1/2 cup water that it says. Should it be like that or is something cocked up? edit: I took the raisin advice early on and I've got a jar of raisins soaking in water so I might try to goose things with a little (hopefully yeasty) raisin water if I don't see some actual signs that there's yeast living in there. Bad idea?
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Apr 16, 2020 04:33
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Shouldn't matter that much as long as it's one to one flour to water. Three days is still pretty early, usually takes a week or two according to circumstances. Raisin water should be fine, a lot of people use pineapple juice. The biggest thing ime you can do to speed things up is to make sure you keep it warm. Somewhere around eighty degrees is ideal.
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Apr 16, 2020 05:31
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I least I know what I hosed up this time. Everything was peachy up until the point where I let it rest for an hour, then realised I forgot the sugar. At that point, in for a penny in for a pound, so I kneaded the sugar in, let it rise another hour, shaped my loaves, let it rise until doubled...ish, then baked for 30. It's a bit. Gummy? I should have let it bake for 40, but the crumb would have been odd regardless. One day, bread. One day.
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Apr 16, 2020 05:36
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/e - ^^^^ for next time bread doesn't really need sugar, the yeast gets enough to rise from the flour. Once mature your starter will be pasty at first and become more soupish as the culture becomea strong enough to produce enough acid to relax/weaken gluten. Take note as you'll eventually overferment a loaf and go all "woah"
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Apr 16, 2020 13:05
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Trying an experiment to make sourdough starter from ale yeast from my gallon beer trial. Trying some Naan and pancakes from the discard today. Let's see if it bread. Did an overnight rise for the naan, just shaped and letting it proof again. Wake up yeasty boys! I have a variety of jobs for you!
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Apr 16, 2020 14:33
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Suspect Bucket posted:Trying an experiment to make sourdough starter from ale yeast from my gallon beer trial. Trying some Naan and pancakes from the discard today. Let's see if it bread. Did an overnight rise for the naan, just shaped and letting it proof again. Wake up yeasty boys! I have a variety of jobs for you! Speaking of which, any suggestions on what to do with discard? I'm really cringing throwing this much flour away right now, given that everyone's loving panic buying it everywhere and it's hard as gently caress to get and I don't want to go grocery store to grocery store looking for it. Right now my discard doesn't rise at all so there's that too. I made a little almost loaf last night to see if I could get it to do anything and meh, it was just a ball of glue this morning. Would have made maybe slightly sour hard tack.
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Apr 16, 2020 14:58
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Cyrano4747 posted:Speaking of which, any suggestions on what to do with discard? I'm really cringing throwing this much flour away right now, given that everyone's loving panic buying it everywhere and it's hard as gently caress to get and I don't want to go grocery store to grocery store looking for it. These waffles are pretty good: https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/classic-sourdough-waffles-or-pancakes-recipe
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Apr 16, 2020 15:02
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Is it possible to have a "discard" container to be able to build it up a bit more? There's a finite amount of pancakes I can eat and I don't bake overly frequently.
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Apr 16, 2020 15:17
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I've had great success making these crumpets, though I have to fashion my own rings out of foil shaped around a can  .https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/sourdough-crumpets-recipe
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Apr 16, 2020 15:24
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Stringent posted:Shouldn't matter that much as long as it's one to one flour to water. For the newer folks, that's one to one by weight, so the 1:1/2 is about right by volume. Scales are really great here! Back when I had a starter in grad school, I got it so that I didn't have any discard but I can't exactly remember how I did it. I'd either take it out of the fridge, use ~3/4 of it to make a loaf, feed it, give it a brief ferment, then fridge it; or I would only keep the 1/4 in the fridge, then feed it, give it a ferment, then take 3/4 for a loaf and fridge the rest. I think that can run into trouble with more bacteria than normal, maybe it worked better since I only fed it with rye. It seemed to work for the couple of months I had it, I'd make little sourdough flatbreads for my lunch.
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Apr 16, 2020 15:31
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Make a pizza every day with the discard
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Apr 16, 2020 15:39
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I made a slightly tweaked serious eats banana bread this morning, and I didn't have any yogurt so I substituted 100g of discard. It turned out really good. Nothing about it comes off sour but the sweetness is better balanced I think.
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Apr 16, 2020 15:58
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Cyrano4747 posted:Speaking of which, any suggestions on what to do with discard? I'm really cringing throwing this much flour away right now, given that everyone's loving panic buying it everywhere and it's hard as gently caress to get and I don't want to go grocery store to grocery store looking for it. Naan worked pretty good. I did an overnight rise in the fridge, really nice dough.  http://www.mykitchenaddiction.com/2011/04/sourdough-naan/ They can be frozen after baking. Bread is in the oven right now, it split in a weird place but otherwise looks good. This ale yeast is working fantastic. It's just a VERY HUNGRY boy. Wants to be fed every 24 hours (at least these last 3 days) on the dot or it splits. This is working great for winging it. edit: BREAD DONE  Aw no, buddy, your pants.  Not bad for baking in a toaster oven. It's great to not have to turn on the scary oven. 35 minutes at 350, probably could have bumped it to 400 but I was scaawwwdd Suspect Bucket fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 16:10
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When I want to save flour by not discarding, I just use a lump of my tired hungry starter, feed that once without needing to discard, give the dough a nice long retard in the fridge, and add a bit of commercial yeast as a backstop. The long fridge ferment gives it a great sour flavour, and my old starter is sourer than newly fed starter so my breads come out really tangy, which I love.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:36
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The best answer for discard I've been able to come up with is to just get used to it. If you're going to bake sourdough you're going to throw away starter, that's just the nature of the beast.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:45
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Doh004 posted:Is it possible to have a "discard" container to be able to build it up a bit more? There's a finite amount of pancakes I can eat and I don't bake overly frequently. Yes, it'll keep about a month before you probably don't want to use it. But I have seen some zero-waste blogs that keep a giant Tupperware of discard that gets added to and subtracted from without clean breaks and they seem ok. To everyone with too much discard and not enough desire to eat carbs: once you have an established starter, start keeping like 20-30g of it instead of the 100-300g I bet you are keeping each feeding. You'll just have a little more build up to do to get all the starter you need for a big recipe.
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Apr 16, 2020 18:22
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Been doing sourdough off and on for a year, and being at home all time has me doing it every 3 days or so. Some recent loaves:    effika posted:To everyone with too much discard and not enough desire to eat carbs: once you have an established starter, start keeping like 20-30g of it instead of the 100-300g I bet you are keeping each feeding. You'll just have a little more build up to do to get all the starter you need for a big recipe. Yeah, all the feeds the books/blogs usually have are insane. I keep 5g of starter every day and feed 7g WW/18g AP and 25g water. It's just fine to do that unless you love discard. ShaneB fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 20:07
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Nice breads! ShaneB posted:Been doing sourdough off and on for a year, and being at home all time has me doing it every 3 days or so. Some recent loaves: Most cooking stuff is like this. "Do it this way because this is how it's always been done." Even though there's often not much of a need. The waste involved in 90% of sourdough tutorials is nutso.
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Apr 16, 2020 22:10
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If you want to feel better about tossing starter you can always compost it
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Apr 16, 2020 22:24
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Discard was one reason I always end up stopping using a starter and just revert to no-knead. BTW, it's great to see how this thread has exploded!
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Apr 16, 2020 22:45
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Okay, so I have overly dense white bread. Is that from not kneading enough? Because this Motherfucker doubled in size twice when I let it rest. It was decent tasting at least
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Apr 16, 2020 23:01
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therattle posted:Discard was one reason I always end up stopping using a starter and just revert to no-knead. One nice thing about no-knead bread is that if you make like, a giant batch of dough and keep it in the fridge, and bake it off every couple of days, you end up with sourdough after a week or two!
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Apr 16, 2020 23:59
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Made a banana bread and subbed a small portion of the banana for 1/4 cup of peanut butter and some whey protein. Curious to see what it’ll be like when it cools. I’m trying to put off going to the store as long as I can so I’m using what I have in the cabinets to experiment. Next will probably be some form of Claritin wheat bread with AA batteries. Edit: Its better than I thought it would be by a lot. Much better than any protein cookie or bar I’ve gotten from a store. Rolo fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 00:20
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