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I'd be real down with time nonsense continuing if it was optional high-level content like Sephiroth was in KH. Make a nod to fans, but don't shake a whole timeline at them.
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Apr 15, 2020 22:58
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The optimistic viewpoint is that the kingdom hearts fate whispers being killed meant that the development team knew that they couldn't keep the surprises or tell a story that is already told beat by beat and have it be a good modern game so that they wanted to keep both old and new players engaged and shrouded in mystery about where they were going with it. Outside of the Kingdom Heart final battle, the main group of folks are still roughly at the same spot: Sephrioth and Jenova and Shinra are all near the OG levels of what they've done so far, but in order to tell a 2020+ story that will visit a lot of big set pieces but might differ in how they will be told is needed. The pessimistic viewpoint is that we've barely touched the iceberg in kingdom hearts time fuckery and you better have your two hundred page guide explaining everything as it happens or you'll be confused.
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Apr 15, 2020 22:59
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DrNutt posted:And then kiss Roche Golden Saucer date or riot.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:00
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Gibbering posted:Roche Golden Saucer date or riot. this is what cloud really used those 7 seconds for
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Apr 15, 2020 23:03
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MyLoathsomeCowboy posted:I'd be real down with time nonsense continuing if it was optional high-level content like Sephiroth was in KH. Make a nod to fans, but don't shake a whole timeline at them. Yeah, this is what Chapter 18 should've been, in all honesty. Rather, what it is.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:05
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lol i expected to ride my motorcycle outta midgar, beat up that lovely robot and have someone gives a speech about how we got stop sephiroth. roll credits. holy poo poo this game owns
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Apr 15, 2020 23:07
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cloud should come out to Tifa and Tifa be accepting
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Apr 15, 2020 23:09
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not joking.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:09
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too bad the whispers are dead bc we'd find out if the planet was homophobic
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Apr 15, 2020 23:13
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Flopsy posted:I was just thinking if Aerith lives maybe she helps turn Midgar INTO the promised land by teaching the humans how to use renewable energy and work with the planet thus actually restoring the cetra race. That'd be cool as poo poo and narratively succinct. Yeah, a nihilistic "humans are the virus" ending hit way differently in 1997 than it would now in our current age where eco-fascism is looming on the horizon so I would love something like this.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:18
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MyLoathsomeCowboy posted:too bad the whispers are dead bc we'd find out if the planet was homophobic 
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Apr 15, 2020 23:29
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Pollyanna posted:As far as I’m concerned, part 1 of the FF7 remake ended once Motor Ball was defeated and the party subsequently left Midgar. Mission accomplished there. The final chapter is a message to the players, saying the following: As I've said earlier in the thread. I appreciate and am looking forward to the changes. But the biggest draw to it will be the hardest selling point going down the line. It'll face the same problem The Legend of Korra did: You're preaching change to nerds, who on average look at change like it's a Bengal Tiger. I don't think they'll use the arbiters going forward unless for reference though. It seemed like they've lost and now they're gonna be like: "Awright, gently caress it, you ruin your own drat timelines then." Thinking of arbiters like angry rear end nerds who can't accept it really makes the game pop for me though.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:29
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Pollyanna posted:Mostly for its larger implications, but come on, who didn’t want to beat up some Final Fantasy bosses at the end of a Final Fantasy game? tbf, Jenova Dreamweaver was an added fight that would've absolutely counted as a FF-rear end last boss
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Apr 15, 2020 23:34
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Dreamweaver is kind-of a grind...and the Rufus fight is way more fun than the fan-service Sephie one.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:36
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Sleeveless posted:Yeah, a nihilistic "humans are the virus" ending hit way differently in 1997 than it would now in our current age where eco-fascism is looming on the horizon so I would love something like this. I agree I think could really use a story beat like this right now. Eco-fascism is just so loving gross and it's worse how prevalent it's gotten.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:37
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So if I'm being completely honest with myself, I very badly want to like the ending, but my feelings are really mixed. There are things I'm excited about and things I absolutely dread, and I still can't shake the disappointment that we won't see the rest of the original story done like Midgar was, with this loving production, great character writing and interactions, the expanded details, and things like that. I'm a little sad about that and I think I might continue to be a little sad about it even if the next parts of the remake are amazing. Yes, I know, the original is still there, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have loved a retelling of that story in the way they retold and reimagined Midgar. The changes and additions they made to the story in part 1 were all fantastic, after all, and we didn't need to kill off the manifestation of destiny to make those happen. That said, I'm still excited to see what comes next. We know they can write these characters well and understand the world, so whatever comes next has a lot of potential. The thing that I dread, though, is what we were posting about earlier. This ending seems to be signposting that the story is going to have a heavy parallel universes/timelines/whatever element to it and that has the potential to overtake everything. That's really what I'm worried about. Changes I'm fine with. Hell, I'm happy about changes in a lot of cases. I just don't want this to turn into some sort of too-clever-for-its-own-good time travel/alternate universes story from here onward, taking the focus away from Jenova, the planet, Meteor, and the cast dealing with all of that. Anyway that's where I am with it. I'm very happy to see where a different version of FFVII's events can go (for example, everyone's posting about a potential new ending with a solarpunk revitalized Midgar sounds rad as gently caress and I'd love the hell out of that) but worried that instead we'll be dealing with a story that's all about alternate timelines colliding and intersecting instead.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:39
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Kinda hoping the change is just being able to spend way more time with the cast and getting to see them be lovable goofballs in different parts of the world.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:41
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Harrow posted:So if I'm being completely honest with myself, I very badly want to like the ending, but my feelings are really mixed. There are things I'm excited about and things I absolutely dread, and I still can't shake the disappointment that we won't see the rest of the original story done like Midgar was, with this loving production, great character writing and interactions, the expanded details, and things like that. I'm a little sad about that and I think I might continue to be a little sad about it even if the next parts of the remake are amazing. Yes, I know, the original is still there, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have loved a retelling of that story in the way they retold and reimagined Midgar. The changes and additions they made to the story in part 1 were all fantastic, after all, and we didn't need to kill off the manifestation of destiny to make those happen. At this point we can only wait and see, but personally I feel like since the arbiters are out of the picture timeline stuff isn't going to get nearly as much attention. And honestly it shouldn't. Tekne posted:Kinda hoping the change is just being able to spend way more time with the cast and getting to see them be lovable goofballs in different parts of the world. This 100%
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Apr 15, 2020 23:41
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Oh and for what it's worth I actually really like Chrono Cross. It's just not what I want the FFVII Remake to be.Tekne posted:Kinda hoping the change is just being able to spend way more time with the cast and getting to see them be lovable goofballs in different parts of the world. Thing is, that's basically what we already got in the Midgar portion without having to have this huge, alternate-universe whispers boss fight beforehand. They could've done that without justifying it with some meta thing and it would've been fantastic. That said yeah, I'm still on board to spend a lot more time with this cast and even if the story goes off the rails into parallel universe nonsense, I'll still probably love hanging out with these characters.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:43
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Flopsy posted:At this point we can only wait and see, but personally I feel like since the arbiters are out of the picture timeline stuff isn't going to get nearly as much attention. And honestly it shouldn't.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:44
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I mean if the plot starts a new war between Shinra and Wutai or the Turks desert and join the party, I am all for that. I'm fine with pretty much anything as long as it involves the actual world of FF7 as we know it, which naturally includes Jenova and Sephiroth and all that. I would be disappointed if the new setting stuff takes over the entire plot.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:44
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homeless snail posted:There are far too many dangling threads in the ending that they aren't just gonna ignore. The descriptions of the arbiters, the weirdass Zack stuff. If they intended it to be a clean break after this game they wouldn't have that stuff. Agreed. That's why I worry that the next part's going to see the main plot taken over with the alternate universe stuff and time travel--it's clearly signposted that's going to be a huge thing going forward. I'm happy to have it as like an undercurrent or some framing around events that still primarily focus on Jenova, Sephiroth, Meteor, saving the planet, etc., but boy it really seems like it's going to take center stage.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:47
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Harrow posted:Hell, I'm happy about changes in a lot of cases. I just don't want this to turn into some sort of too-clever-for-its-own-good time travel/alternate universes story from here onward, taking the focus away from Jenova, the planet, Meteor, and the cast dealing with all of that. The  part of me thinks there's still discussion in the dev team on what actually to adapt and change in the next sections of the game.e: I'm talking major plot events (Nibelheim Incident / Aerith Death / Weapon Blasting President's Office / Tifa Pushing Cloud in the Wheelchair, etc.), for the record MoaM fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 23:49
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Harrow posted:Agreed. That's why I worry that the next part's going to see the main plot taken over with the alternate universe stuff and time travel--it's clearly signposted that's going to be a huge thing going forward. I'm happy to have it as like an undercurrent or some framing around events that still primarily focus on Jenova, Sephiroth, Meteor, saving the planet, etc., but boy it really seems like it's going to take center stage. I mean, they already unceremoniously spoiled all of the big plot threads from the original game so it's not exactly like they're chomping at the bit to give those the same treatment. There's nowhere to go but new stuff now.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:52
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MoaM posted:They should really just redo the story how they want and not justify it via entities in the mythology itself; have some confidence. The entire point of  THE HARBINGERS OF DESTINY HAVE BEEN DEFEATED is that you don't have to care anymore because now we know whatever the gently caress happens happens, so we can move on from the timey wimey bullshit.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:53
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I mean, they already unceremoniously spoiled all of the big plot threads from the original game so it's not exactly like they're chomping at the bit to give those the same treatment. There's nowhere to go but new stuff now. Well...they were just kinda flashforward Brain Zaps, but your point still stands.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:56
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I mean, they already unceremoniously spoiled all of the big plot threads from the original game so it's not exactly like they're chomping at the bit to give those the same treatment. There's nowhere to go but new stuff now. I don't need it all to get the same treatment in the original, or even really be the same events. I just don't want the focus to be on a time travel/alternate universe story instead of a new take on the FFVII story, if that makes sense. It's specifically the idea that timeline/universe stuff will become the main focus that I don't want, not a new story. A new story influenced by things like Aerith maybe knowing her fate, Sephiroth trying to manipulate the main crew, the ramifications of trying to avert their original destiny, etc., all of that could be very cool. But stuff like alternate-universe Zack showing up, or traveling to alternate universes, or things getting really weird as universes collide, I think I'd find that all very tiring.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:57
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Harrow posted:So if I'm being completely honest with myself, I very badly want to like the ending, but my feelings are really mixed. There are things I'm excited about and things I absolutely dread, and I still can't shake the disappointment that we won't see the rest of the original story done like Midgar was, with this loving production, great character writing and interactions, the expanded details, and things like that. I'm a little sad about that and I think I might continue to be a little sad about it even if the next parts of the remake are amazing. Yes, I know, the original is still there, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have loved a retelling of that story in the way they retold and reimagined Midgar. The changes and additions they made to the story in part 1 were all fantastic, after all, and we didn't need to kill off the manifestation of destiny to make those happen. quote:The reunion at hand may bring joy. It may bring fear. But let us embrace whatever it brings. For they are coming back.
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Apr 15, 2020 23:59
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Pollyanna posted:The entire point of For what seems to be the vast majority of FF7 players who can't accept a story for a story, or that the original will never be perfectly recreated, yes you're right...that is what it is for. I'm really not one of those people. MoaM posted:
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Apr 15, 2020 23:59
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Pollyanna posted:The entire point of Very much so, but I remember one problem I had with the KH plot is that Nomura or whatever writers would just NOT let go of Organization XIII even after its purpose should've been done with in KH after 2. Do you expect them to do the same with the arbiters here too or will they really stay gone after this?
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Apr 16, 2020 00:02
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MoaM posted:Well...they were just kinda flashforward Brain Zaps, but your point still stands. I don't even just mean that. I just mean stuff like dumping Zack, Not A SOLDIER, Sephiroth's plans, etc. Remake just seems terrified of leaving stuff on the table for some reason.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:02
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Clarste posted:I mean if the plot starts a new war between Shinra and Wutai or the Turks desert and join the party, I am all for that. I'm fine with pretty much anything as long as it involves the actual world of FF7 as we know it, which naturally includes Jenova and Sephiroth and all that. My God...you've just described almost everything I want in one post.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:03
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:I don't even just mean that. I just mean stuff like dumping Zack, Not A SOLDIER, Sephiroth's plans, etc. i got a real "series not sure if they're getting a second season" vibe from how much load they blew. which is odd, because this is the most money-printingest title square has in their catalog
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Apr 16, 2020 00:04
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MyLoathsomeCowboy posted:i got a real "series not sure if they're getting a second season" vibe from how much load they blew. which is odd, because this is the most money-printingest title square has in their catalog I think they just wanted to end on a compelling note.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:04
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My speculation is that it will more or less still follow the plot of FF7, like in the ending of this game they're still all on board for stopping Sephiroth so we're still gonna end up chasing him and going through Junon and essentially taking the same path even if things happen a little differently and stuff gets hosed up along the way. Still will have the revelations about who Cloud really is and all that, even if most of the plot of FFVII has been blasted into the characters heads at this point. They're still going to hit all the setpieces of FFVII even if their context is different Now that the party is in control, rather than them being guided by the whispers, you got the "travelers from the future" desperately pursuing them like nazguls or some poo poo. Occasional encounters with them as they try to correct destiny, and that's how they'll maintain dramatic tension re Aerith's death I have no idea what Zack is doing or where he is, but since most of the revelations of FFVII are already done all the new drama is gonna be with this new Zach and timecop stuff I don't actually want any of this to happen, but I very much doubt they're going to get too crazy about dramatically changing the course of the basic Sephiroth plot homeless snail fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Apr 16, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2020 00:05
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MoaM posted:For what seems to be the vast majority of FF7 players who can't accept a story for a story, or that the original will never be perfectly recreated, yes you're right...that is what it is for. Yes, I understand. I think fighting the arbiters were for the benefit of signaling to those people, so that they can calm down. Tactless Ogre posted:Very much so, but I remember one problem I had with the KH plot is that Nomura or whatever writers would just NOT let go of Organization XIII even after its purpose should've been done with in KH after 2. Do you expect them to do the same with the arbiters here too or will they really stay gone after this? We get to find out!
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Apr 16, 2020 00:05
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Clarste posted:I mean if the plot starts a new war between Shinra and Wutai or the Turks desert and join the party, I am all for that. I'm fine with pretty much anything as long as it involves the actual world of FF7 as we know it, which naturally includes Jenova and Sephiroth and all that. This would own
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Apr 16, 2020 00:05
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Flopsy posted:I think they just wanted to end on a compelling note. This is the most reasonable explanation. It's a Final Fantasy game, it has to be bombastic and nutty.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:06
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I feel like "The Arbiters of Fate" are a thing not to justify the changes but half because the creators want to get meta with it and half so that when changes do happen they're a direct result of the actions of the cast and player. So it's not that Biggs and Wedge survive Midgar this time but that you save them (by killing these dang ghosts).
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Apr 16, 2020 00:07
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Pollyanna posted:Yes, I understand. I think fighting the arbiters were for the benefit of signaling to those people, so that they can calm down. I was going to post this earlier, but...I really don't think the devs should be communicating to fans, especially through the game... However, it seems like a very errrm, polite and private way to go about things? Quite different from what other developpers, elsewhere might do. I can respect it.
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Apr 16, 2020 00:07
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