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I'm astonished that Roche doesn't show up in the final bike chase
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Apr 17, 2020 00:43
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DeathSandwich posted:I would guess if they do this, it'll be post release DLC and not part of the core game. I think it's too big a shift in narrative to suddenly shunt over to Reno and Rude's Excellent Adventure OG game actually did have other characters take over as the main character while Cloud was in a coma though. Considering how much they're expanding I don't think it would be beyond them to do this. Also I'd give my right arm to play through Reno and Rude's excellent adventure.
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Apr 17, 2020 00:49
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Flopsy posted:OG game actually did have other characters take over as the main character while Cloud was in a coma though. Considering how much they're expanding I don't think it would be beyond them to do this. We have short sections where we play/lead other members of the party so they should absolutely expand on this.
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Apr 17, 2020 00:57
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MoaM posted:I was hoping for the Demon Wall fight to be good and the Kalm flashback to be well directed / voice-acted, but those things are essentially out the window now. I'd be shocked if the Kalm flashback didn't still happen. In fact, I'm expecting the start of Part II to be a cold open into the back of the truck.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:00
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Even before this game came out I was kinda half expecting playable Turks for Wutai when they get to it and now i'm expecting it even more. I don't know if that means they'll join your party or there will be a separate one of Reno, Rude and Elena but i've convinced myself it's definitely happening.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:01
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Even before this game came out I was kinda half expecting playable Turks for Wutai when they get to it and now i'm expecting it even more. I think they know people are starving for that kind of content. The thing I generally disliked about Before Crisis is I wanted more development for the turks from the main game not like 10 new characters with no personalities save weapon of choice.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:04
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I'm sure this is not a unique take by any means but I just hit the credits and I wish they just changed story stuff instead of this crisis of the multiverse threads of fate poo poo...The ghosts sucked major rear end in every scene they were in. I hate em!!!!! I'm like...100% on board with them changing stuff, even drastic stuff like Aerith and Zack, but I would have preferred it just play out naturally without this framing.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:12
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If it makes you feel better, it looks like the party killed the personification of Destiny so hard that it retconned Zack's destiny way back before any of this mess. So they probably won't be dealing with any more ghosts. Probably
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Apr 17, 2020 01:15
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I'm sure this is not a unique take by any means but I just hit the credits and I wish they just changed story stuff instead of this crisis of the multiverse threads of fate poo poo...The ghosts sucked major rear end in every scene they were in. I hate em!!!!! That's fair. And I hope the fact they killed the destiny ghosts means they won't be showing back up again. Really don't want the Heartless 2.0 in my game.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:18
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I am super looking forward to Yuffie, oddly enough. I feel like she's going to be a classic.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:20
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CottonWolf posted:I'd be shocked if the Kalm flashback didn't still happen. In fact, I'm expecting the start of Part II to be a cold open into the back of the truck. The Shinra HQ - Kalm flashback segment of FF7 is probably the only thing that motivated me to finish the rest of the game back in the day. I wouldn't be surprised if they just take it out or make that whole segment a big animé brawl.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:25
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Clarste posted:I am super looking forward to Yuffie, oddly enough. I feel like she's going to be a classic. Since I doubt Yuffie and Vincent are going to be optional this time I'm really looking forward to their interactions. "Dour vampire man considers taking up day drinking as spunky ninja nags him for the 500th time what the hell he saw in that lady." MoaM posted:The Shinra HQ - Kalm flashback segment of FF7 is probably the only thing that motivated me to finish the rest of the game back in the day. I wouldn't be surprised if they just take it out or make that whole segment a big animé brawl. You mean things would straight up get rowdy?? *eyes dart to Roche*
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Apr 17, 2020 01:27
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Kill All Cops posted:I see despite the comprehensive rundown of the events, you can't make sense of Sephiroth absorbing Meteor after Cloud kills the whispers. Rewatching the cutscene again, it looks like when he kills that first Sephiroth, it explodes into whispers. Essentially how that scene goes is: your party defeats the arbiter of fate, a meteor appears, sephiroth absorbs it, then you fight him. On death, he explodes into whispers. I guess that point here is this, Sephiroth absorbs the whispers, in the form of meteor, and uses them to fight you. He even throws some at Cloud and crew before he dies proving that was what he absorbed. Then the Not-Omnislash scene occurs. Your guess is as good as mine why the whispers looked like meteor after the arbiter died. I assume the devs just liked the imagery. It could be that they liked the look of it as a metaphor for the wild, destructive energy of the planet. If I'm reading the wiki right, magic is the planet's energy, materia gives characters the knowledge of the cetra to use it. So, Sephiroth is drinking up the burning, fiery planet juice left behind after you wrecked the arbiter.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:36
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Just finished it an hour ago, still digesting the ending: What I liked overall: -They really nailed the characterisations, Aerith and Barret especially. -Each character felt really fun to play as -Chapter 4 in general, seeing more of the AVALANCE Crew -Wall Market -The music that plays in the Sector 6 slums when it's just Cloud and Aerith, that gorgeous, melancholic synthy ambiance -The humour was perfect, so many funny one-liners ("Yeah, nailed it, moving on") -The first half of the Shinra Building (including the climb to get there) -Red XIII being a guest character was pretty cool -Fighting Rufus, The Arsenal and the motorcycle fights. Climactic. What I disliked: -Some of the sidequests were worse than loving Runescape -Strange pacing issues (the pillar is being attacked! Now spend an hour playing an anime filler episode with ghost kids while you can see the pillar being attacked in the distance!) -Second half of the Shinra Building had some incredibly cheeky padding and constantly switching Materia between Aerith and Barret was a bit of a chore. -I couldn't take the 'Barret gets held up by President Shinra' scene seriously because a) it was stupid and b) he has a loving gun arm. -Jenova felt awkwardly shoehorned in, I can't really explain it. If I had played this game without having played the original I would have assumed she was just another random rear end monster Hojo had made, like Not- Cthulu in the lab. Still immensely enjoyed the game and I'm hyped for the next one.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:49
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Pencils R Cool posted:-Each character felt really fun to play as I hope this holds up when they double (or more, if they decide to have fun with it) the number of playable characters in the sequels. Materia management is definitely going to be poo poo if they stick with having a lot of non-optional party switching.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:52
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PBnJamo posted:Essentially how that scene goes is: your party defeats the arbiter of fate, a meteor appears, sephiroth absorbs it, then you fight him. On death, he explodes into whispers. That whole meteor sequence reads like some-sort of extra-dimensional illusion to me, in all honesty...like expanding your Ki-flames or whatever in Dragonball Z.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:54
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Sinteres posted:I don't think we're going to get retcons on the personalities of the characters as we've already seen them in this game. What happened in this game still probably happened, even if there's going to be weird fuckery with a Zack who shouldn't be there later. I kind of wonder if Cloud and Aerith will be pushed harder before Zack shows up to make it weird. Maybe they'll go down the route of the main characters having fate-change-proof memories because they were inside the weird Whisper dimension when it happened, so even though the past changed, they still remember their "original" past. Could lead to some poo poo like Marle and everyone else in Sector 7 totally forgetting Cloud and remembering Zack in his place or something, while Cloud, Tifa, Barret, and maybe even Marlene (something's going on with her for sure) remember events the way we saw them, and it clues the cast in that defeating the Whispers made poo poo real fucky. The first hint might be seeing a Stamp sign with him in his "new timeline" design and Cloud or Barret being like, "Huh, didn't Stamp used to look like...?" Also this leads to there being two Buster Swords and after you defeat Zack in a duel Cloud dual wields Buster Swords Harrow fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 01:54
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I don’t know what it is about it but the banter from the two kids you rescue with Aerith reminds me so much of the two birds you trade stuff with in Dark Souls.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:58
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CottonWolf posted:I'd be shocked if the Kalm flashback didn't still happen. In fact, I'm expecting the start of Part II to be a cold open into the back of the truck. I’d be more shocked if it did. Think of what you’re implying. Kalm is a multi-hour segment of the OG game (it’s so long loving Barrett pulls you out of the flashback and asks you to save,) where you play as a cloud that for plot reasons can’t even hurt enemies while sepiroth trucks them. I hate to do the anime power levels poo poo but there’s no way the game is going to put cloud/sepiroth on equal levels of ability just to make kalm into a playable tutorial section. The nibelheim flashback has a TON of content in it that’s already being drip fed to the party in remake via the fate ghosts and the ultimate point of it being that the party needs to follow sepiroth is already established in the remake. Opening a 40 hour game with a 1-2 hour sequence of flashbacks with no actual Skinner box progression of party members is going to be a tough situation, especially when said sequence is super fuckin boring and only serves to dump exposition on players that the remake already did in the first episode. It would be possible to make it a sequence where sepiroth is teaching cloud how to fight and the plot contained within the flashback serves to refresh everyone on the overarching motives of the characters, I’m not denying that. It would just be super hard to pull off from a narrative standpoint as well as gameplay standpoint because it makes the game a slog right from the start and also means they would have to find a new plot point from the OG between kalm and aerith’s death to serve as the mid game peak of the “heroes journey” story archetype they’re going with here. If you look at the meat of ff7’s plot most of this time is spent establishing character backstories and going from point a to point b because those towns just happen to be in your way. They would have to elevate something like red finding out about his dad to “Turks dropping the plate” level of emotional impact or just make some poo poo up instead. It’s way easier to just move the nibelheim flashback to the middle of the game and using the impact of Sephiroth murdering an entire town (including the parents of two protagonists) and going insane as the emotional middlepoint. There’s plenty of content to drive the opening 20 hours of episode 2 of the remake (Choco billy, zolom, turks in the cave,slums of junon, junon proper, boat trip, corel, gold saucer, cosmo canyon,) but the plot really starts to drag when the party goes through nibelheim and something needs to be done to make those last 20 hours interesting. It honestly starts to drag right after gold saucer when the party meets mr. deus ex machina himself, bugenhaagen, because their car broke down. Most of what gets covered in cosmo canyon is just rehashing poo poo that was established in midgar already but it has a cool cinematic and red’s plot dungeon so that tends to get forgotten. From this point forward though the party is basically just going from place to place with no motivation besides “there’s a guy in a black cloak here maybe, I hope” and “hey maybe we can borrow that wife beater’s airplane.” There’s also a backtracking segment that exists solely to show dio in his underwear again and introduce you to battlesquare as well as the concept of cait sith being the worst character in final fantasy history. The most interesting thing that happens between cosmo canyon and aerith’s death is sepiroth poorly explaining his master plan after killing Reeve. Even then that’s arguably less important than the scene that follows it in which cait sith has a crisis of self about what his sacrifice means because at least that scene sets the tone for the ball that’s about to drop in the next one. It also immediately elevates cait sith back to best final fantasy character because that scene is loving hilarious in the context of the hour that follows it.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:59
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The Stamp design change is the weirdest directorial cue.
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Apr 17, 2020 01:59
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I hope they don't cut too much of the world tour--getting to explore a bit would be nice after the claustrophobia of Midgar. They'll probably just have narrow corridors everywhere we go though.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:02
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They could just split up the flashback into multiple chunks that occur at different parts of the game. Like, the beginning at Kalm, another bit on the boat after Junon (either before or after fighting Jenova), etc. I do think a tutorial where Sephiroth teaches level 1 Cloud to fight is the most narratively elegant way to have any kind of tutorial at all.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:04
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Maybe Zack will be an aspect of Cloud on another world and at the end their spirits will come together to defeat
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Apr 17, 2020 02:06
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Jimbot posted:Maybe Zack will be an aspect of Cloud on another world and at the end their spirits will come together to defeat Time Devourer
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Apr 17, 2020 02:07
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Clarste posted:They could just split up the flashback into multiple chunks that occur at different parts of the game. Like, the beginning at Kalm, another bit on the boat after Junon (either before or after fighting Jenova), etc. Yeah, I expect it to be something akin to a split now. Understanding the Nibelheim Incident is virtually unimportant in FF7:RE. That flashback was really just setting up the villain of the story. It also caps off all the mysterious poo poo that happened in Shinra HQ (most of which is removed or pseudo-explained in FF7:RE).
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Apr 17, 2020 02:07
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MoaM posted:That whole meteor sequence reads like some-sort of extra-dimensional illusion to me, in all honesty...like expanding your Ki-flames or whatever in Dragonball Z. The whole thing is bizarre, it seemed like the whispers dying allowed Sephiroth to pull Cloud and others into the Meteor landing in the original timeline and at face value he absorbed the Meteor and the power of the Black Materia with it. It makes him overpowered but at the same time Cloud and others are also similarly overpowered at this point compared to the original timeline so it kinda works out. Kinda fucks up the whole journey of the original where Shinra stalks Sephiroth to lead them to the Promised Land but he's really searching for the Black Materia if it was literal though.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:07
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I really question whether any of it was physically happening, you had just beaten a boss called 'Dream Weaver' beforehand. The weird subversion of the Shinra HQ exhibit into a Meteor flashforward suggests the same thing to me. "Mako nrg is a helluva drug", etc.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:11
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Kill All Cops posted:The whole thing is bizarre, it seemed like the whispers dying allowed Sephiroth to pull Cloud and others into the Meteor landing in the original timeline and at face value he absorbed the Meteor and the power of the Black Materia with it. It makes him overpowered but at the same time Cloud and others are also similarly overpowered at this point compared to the original timeline so it kinda works out. Kinda fucks up the whole journey of the original where Shinra stalks Sephiroth to lead them to the Promised Land but he's really searching for the Black Materia if it was literal though. I'd be interested if any of them actually you know...talk about what they saw in there instead writing it off as--hey that was crazy poo poo amirite?
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Apr 17, 2020 02:11
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I thought the only Sepiroth fight at the end was just another Illusion.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:17
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It does all seem like an illusion to me, hopefully others too. It might even just be the Whispers letting the party 'win' against them or something. We don't really know.HORSEPORN posted:It would just be super hard to pull off from a narrative standpoint as well as gameplay standpoint because it makes the game a slog right from the start and also means they would have to find a new plot point from the OG between kalm and aerith’s death to serve as the mid game peak of the “heroes journey” story archetype they’re going with here. This is why I lean towards them skipping it as well. I really want that segment of the story to be adapated, but there's no real point to seeing Sephiroth go from hero to villain now. Not only that, w/e this incarnation of Sephiroth is seems very far removed from his original motivations. The character isn't a traditional FF villain anymore, he's a new one. Given how the final chapter plays out, I just don't see them can re-introducing that Garland or Golbez type aesthetic.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:17
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I could see portions of the Kalm flashback coming up throughout part 2 with growing inconsistencies, leading up to a meeting with Zack at the end and Cloud's total mental break, or something like that. I doubt they'll just sit you down and do the whole "here's what went down at Nibelheim" thing all at once. I could see a flashback of Cloud and Sephiroth as SOLDIERs together in Cloud's memory as a beginning-of-the-game tutorial before flashing back to the present, and then snippets of it interspersed throughout.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:19
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It's going to be a much better reveal, if they decide to keep that portion of Cloud's character history. There's a neat programming aesthetic in the original where the Cloud model is replaced with the Zack one in those mind-dive / Cloud in the Wheelchair scenes. That and the music really sell the twist. You really don't need to do something that crude with modern games; they can do much better.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:21
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Beat the game and story aside, I'm honestly kind of shocked how demanding the game is on a skill level? It's far from the hardest or most complex game out there, but it's a big shift for an FF game, especially after XV, which was so concerned with non-action fans getting lost that it was pretty automated and let you res after death. I mostly like it, but there are definitely some odd spikes where a new enemy type will poo poo out way more damage than anything else around it even if you're doing things right, and solo sections can get awkward since in the worst case you end up running around waiting for an ATB charge to regenerate before you can safely reengage.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:24
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Honestly I'm not really sure how modern graphics could really recreate the weird unearthly afterimages used for Sephiroth and sometimes Cloud when he's going crazy though. I mean they could literally do the afterimages but the impression that would give isn't the same at all.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:24
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Harrow posted:I could see portions of the Kalm flashback coming up throughout part 2 with growing inconsistencies, leading up to a meeting with Zack at the end and Cloud's total mental break, or something like that. I doubt they'll just sit you down and do the whole "here's what went down at Nibelheim" thing all at once. I could see a flashback of Cloud and Sephiroth as SOLDIERs together in Cloud's memory as a beginning-of-the-game tutorial before flashing back to the present, and then snippets of it interspersed throughout. Actually curious if they're going to speed up Cloud's mental break because he's seems like he's moving towards that a lot more rapidly than the original.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:27
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also I didn't have issues with whatever Tifa/Aerith fight it was that snagged people in hojo's lab, but gently caress those reverse whack-a-mole robots for being annoying.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:28
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MonsterEnvy posted:I thought the only Sepiroth fight at the end was just another Illusion. it was (in my opinion). Unless they diverge even more, Sephiroth should still be encased in Mako on the crater and (just like the OG game) he possesses Jenova/Reunion people as needed. The Kalm flashback and inclusion of Zack leads me to believe that played out the same. Someone mentioned that it was more apparent in the Japanese dialogue but the only time you encounter actual Sephiroth is at very end when you’re in the lifestream/edge of creation.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:29
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MonsterEnvy posted:I thought the only Sepiroth fight at the end was just another Illusion. I'd say it's about as much of an illusion as it was in the original, after defeating him in the Midgar ruins Cloud fights Sephiroth in his mind like in the original (at the "Edge of Creation") only this time Cloud doesn't kill Sephiroth, so his control over Cloud's Jenova cells remain.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:32
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:it was (in my opinion). Unless they diverge even more, Sephiroth should still be encased in Mako on the crater and (just like the OG game) he possesses Jenova/Reunion people as needed. The Kalm flashback and inclusion of Zack leads me to believe that played out the same. Someone mentioned that it was more apparent in the Japanese dialogue but the only time you encounter actual Sephiroth is at very end when you’re in the lifestream/edge of creation. They also mentioned it was the only time in the game Sephiroth had a rare break in his insanity and actually spoke the way he did before he went batshit. That's the surreal bit to me, that Sephiroth actually had a moment of not being an FF villain.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:32
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Clarste posted:Honestly I'm not really sure how modern graphics could really recreate the weird unearthly afterimages used for Sephiroth and sometimes Cloud when he's going crazy though. I mean they could literally do the afterimages but the impression that would give isn't the same at all. That fixed camera style combined with the static backgrounds calls for some creative story-telling methods / visual effects.
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Apr 17, 2020 02:40
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