|
It would be both funny and disappointing if after the huge deal made of rejecting destiny and forging a new path the beginning of Part 2 is just picking up exactly at the point in the original game Part 1 ended at with them outside of Midgar and then going Kalm, Nibelheim flashback, Chocobo ranch, Zolom fight, etc. as usual. I'm kind of hoping that there's some sort of time skip or major sequence break instead just to immediately destroy any familiarity or expectations instead.
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 05:10 |
|
|
Clarste posted:I disagree that we don't need to establish Cloud and Tifa's past with Sephiroth. And frankly also with the idea that Hojo saying "you're not a SOLDIER, you're..." completely ruins a twist that occurs 30 hours later. The twist wasn't just that Cloud wasn't a SOLDIER, but also that he was one of those faceless infantrymen that we've been conditioned to not care about. That was the part that blew my mind as a kid anyway. Won't they be upset when game three comes out!
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:36
|
|
|
There's a promo going that gets you a Tifa Dynamic theme and some apparently not-useless equipment if you buy some candy bars and send in a picture of the receipt. Here's a link to the promo page: https://butterfingerff7r.com/ Now because of both COVID (I'm pretty close to the Detroit Hotspot) and my lack of a digital camera or smartphone, I'd like to open myself up to the kindness of strangers. If anyone wants to buy two of the approved candy bars and send me a pic of the receipt I'd be very appreciative, and I promise not to use it for anything sketchy (you could always pay cash so I don't have any credit card info or anything). I wouldn't mind a receipt with 10 bars purchased, but that Tifa theme is all I care about and this seems like this is the only way to get it: two bars should be enough for that. I think the ideal receipt has the candy bar purchases clearly labeled, the purchase date, and the store's info. And I've seen online that a fair amount are rejected, so good photo quality's presumably helpful too. I'll post my discord ID if anyone shows interest in playing butterfinger santa claus for me and we can just sort it out over that (I don't have private messages on SA, so I'll just be paying attention to this thread). So that I'm not just cyber-begging, I'll add that I think Avalanche and the Turks will get along by the end of the game. They can bond over the fact that they both did some terrorist stuff in Midgar and that while they're willing to do some sketchy stuff, ultimately they've all got hearts of gold (except Tseng, though I remember him actually being "the good Turk" of the original so who knows there). NowonSA fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Apr 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:37
|
|
|
JBP posted:Won't they be upset when game three comes out! I'm not saying that have to handle it exactly how the original game did, but I'm just saying that there's still a big emotional and narrative payoff there that they'll probably want to use. In terms of skipping places though, I do think they could just skip everything between Midgar and Junon without losing much. Maybe include some kind of Midgardsorm dungeon or sequence since that's about the only part that isn't generic. Costa del Sol and Icicle Inn also stand out as completely meaningless towns.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:40
|
|
|
I think people will riot if we don't see Costa Del Sol, personally. That town right after Midgar seems like a good place for some scenes where the party gets together and figures out what the heck they're going to do, which is part of what I remember them doing in the original. I hadn't thought of the "You're even more special than a SOLDIER!" interpretation of what Hojo might have been about to say. With the experimentation on him I think that's pretty true, so it's kind of cool that Cloud's both some regular anonymous soldier at first, and then after experiments probably better than most SOLDIERS.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:45
|
|
|
Clarste posted:In terms of skipping places though, I do think they could just skip everything between Midgar and Junon without losing much. Maybe include some kind of Midgardsorm dungeon or sequence since that's about the only part that isn't generic. Costa del Sol and Icicle Inn also stand out as completely meaningless towns. Costa del Sol has the amazing scene of Hojo on the beach surrounded by bikini babes, you cannot possibly skip seeing this Hojo do that
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:46
|
|
|
You don't need an entire town for that, you just need a beach somewhere. Maybe have like a VR resort in Golden Saucer or something. I'm not saying they should do that, it's just FF7 has a lot of towns that don't really need to be given the full Remake treatment. Icicle Inn has Dr. Gast's video journals too, for example, but that's about ALL it has.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:49
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I disagree that we don't need to establish Cloud and Tifa's past with Sephiroth. And frankly also with the idea that Hojo saying "you're not a SOLDIER, you're..." completely ruins a twist that occurs 30 hours later. The twist wasn't just that Cloud wasn't a SOLDIER, but also that he was one of those faceless infantrymen that we've been conditioned to not care about. That was the part that blew my mind as a kid anyway. The remake has you fight a sephiroth that loving rips open the fabric of reality as a baseline display of his power. There’s no reason to spend an entire segment of the game establishing how cool and strong he is just to show you that he becomes a murderer. The “cloud was actually just a grunt” twist is so much easier to establish without a flashback scene and leaking it through the narrative at other points instead. Nevermind that they can’t even faithfully recreate the scene because it’s going to be awfully hard to show several people get stabbed or cut navel to chin and not get an M rating. How do you even show something like cloud getting skewered, running the blade through his own stomach, and then lifting the entire weight of a man from the SHARP end of a katana before throwing him into a pit? What you’re asking for is solid snake surfing on a missile levels of anime combat or a faithful recreation of a horrific scene where a bunch of people get “knocked out.” Now granted, I’m completely down for that because gently caress it I’m all in. Is the rest of the fanbase that’s seemingly allergic to anything even resembling kingdom hearts going to be cool with that or react well to that being in the first hour of your game (that might also be a playable demo before it releases?) Edit: costa del sol is also cool as gently caress, I agree with that. The hojo scene is amazing and second only to the scene where Rufus arrives via helicopter and it straight up blows a grunt into the ocean. I also agree that fans would riot if it was removed because it’s the first actual upbeat place you encounter in the game that doesn’t feel slightly slummy like the choco ranch does. I just don’t expect it to be a fully fleshed out area now, not a one off visit. HORSEPORN fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:52
|
|
|
Did people really think the only point of the flashback was to make Sephiroth seem like a badass? The point is to show what happened to Cloud and Tifa and Nibelheim, which deeply affects why they are the way they are. Which is why they do the entire flashback three times from different angles? The Remake has already been flashing back to segments of it. Just do that... more.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:54
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I disagree that we don't need to establish Cloud and Tifa's past with Sephiroth. And frankly also with the idea that Hojo saying "you're not a SOLDIER, you're..." completely ruins a twist that occurs 30 hours later. The twist wasn't just that Cloud wasn't a SOLDIER, but also that he was one of those faceless infantrymen that we've been conditioned to not care about. That was the part that blew my mind as a kid anyway. Yeah this sucked, IMO. I was fine with the faceless soldier recognizing Cloud from bootcamp since it foreshadows the twist without outright stating it but then Hojo just ruins it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 09:59
|
|
|
HORSEPORN posted:Nevermind that they can’t even faithfully recreate the scene because it’s going to be awfully hard to show several people get stabbed or cut navel to chin and not get an M rating. How do you even show something like cloud getting skewered, running the blade through his own stomach, and then lifting the entire weight of a man from the SHARP end of a katana before throwing him into a pit? Probably the same way they did in the original by being bloodless. The remake has plenty of incidents like Barret getting skewered that would be M rated if there was blood and gore.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:00
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Did people really think the only point of the flashback was to make Sephiroth seem like a badass? The point is to show what happened to Cloud and Tifa and Nibelheim, which deeply affects why they are the way they are. Which is why they do the entire flashback three times from different angles? Also to form an established narrative over Cloud and Tifa's backstory to serve as conflict and discomfort. Tifa knows (or 'knows') Cloud wasn't at Nibelheim, but he knows things only someone from Nibelheim COULD know. That repeated incident is basically how Sephiroth shatters Cloud's mind. By constantly forcing him to recall it and recall details, until finally, Cloud hits upon the one point his fragile psyche hadn't placed "When did I enter SOLDIER? How did I enter SOLDIER?" Is skipping Nibelheim Flashback/Kalm/Midgarsormr/Fort Condor/Costa Del Sol/North Corel/Gongaga/whatever else going to be the new "They won't adapt Wallmarket!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:02
|
|
|
To be completely honest, I feel like the Nibelheim flashback and its unreliability and multiple variations is almost literally the entire plot of the game. There are other individual scenes that are emotional or funny and that we all remember, but without the Nibelheim flashback the actual plot is pretty much a generic "kill the demon king to save the world."
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:04
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I'm not saying that have to handle it exactly how the original game did, but I'm just saying that there's still a big emotional and narrative payoff there that they'll probably want to use. I think it's good to have some 'fun' in between all the serious plot moments like Kalm and Nibelhem. Costa del Sol isn't a very important plot town, but it helps gives the player a bit of a breather and fleshes out the world a little more.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:04
|
|
|
Mulva posted:They cracked jokes while knowingly going to kill tens of thousands of people, and got annoyed at the people they were murdering for daring to fight back. "Maybe mass murder is.....wrong?" gets them a hearty "Way to question your sociopathy for a minute buddy!" before getting popped in the loving head and fed to wild hogs. There is literally nothing they can do to walk them back. Mulva posted:Listen, I know they are fascist corporate goons that literally set out to mass murder the poor so that the board of executives could build prettier houses, but have you considered how hot they are? Mulva posted:And here's the thing about that branch of AVALANCHE: They pretty much all die, and they do so going "We had this coming.". And then Reno and Rude get to chill out on a beach. i would be fine with the turks dying. it can be frustrating in media where bad guys willingly kill a bunch of innocent people and then face turn at the last second and the main cast act like every things fine now. i mean the turks are literally the secret police, they're whole job is to take care of "threats to shinra" and disappearing people for ever. just because they feel bad about dropping a plate didn't stop them from dropping a plate.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:06
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:I think it's good to have some 'fun' in between all the serious plot moments like Kalm and Nibelhem. Costa del Sol isn't a very important plot town, but it helps gives the player a bit of a breather and fleshes out the world a little more. You go to the Gold Saucer like right after it though. And if you had to choose between the Gold Saucer and Costa del Sol, which would you keep? Maybe it won't come down to that choice, but I am skeptical that they can keep every single town you visit in the original at the same level of fidelity as each of the sectors in Midgar.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:09
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Did people really think the only point of the flashback was to make Sephiroth seem like a badass? The point is to show what happened to Cloud and Tifa and Nibelheim, which deeply affects why they are the way they are. Which is why they do the entire flashback three times from different angles? You just kind of answered your own question though. The nibelheim visits serve several purposes. -they give the player a break after the craziness that is shinra hq (lol we don’t need one) -they set up the post midgar plot (we don’t need this) -they set up how strong sephiroth is (done already) -they set up the reveal of the Potemkin village -they set up tifa and cloud’s past. Why do you need to do that at the outset of a game that’s very distinctly lacking a middle plot point with the way it’s cut? You either need to create a new one (which almost no one wants) or you shuffle the story around to change the way it plays. If we’re following the original plot beats then whatever happens with regards to aerith NEEDS to happen near the end of episode 2 for it to fit the medium. If you just spent the last hour of a 35 hour game telling people “we’re changing poo poo” why do you immediately force yourself into a recreation of a segment you just spent a large portion of your game pre-establishing? Why don’t you just move those reveals to a more logical place like actual nibelheim where the plot starts slowing down naturally and you can let the backstory breath more to make the middle of the game more interesting? I’m not saying the flashback needs to cease existing, just that it’s one of the things I expect to be reworked in its delivery. They didn’t spend an entire game showing you parts of it just so they could force feed it to you again to kick off the next installment. They also didn’t mention wutai a bunch and show different cells of avalanche just for shits and giggles. They did it because these are weak points from the game that they’ve already addressed in other media and they’re going to do it again here as well. Sleeveless posted:Probably the same way they did in the original by being bloodless. The remake has plenty of incidents like Barret getting skewered that would be M rated if there was blood and gore. The original doesn’t have gore because it’s an in-engine cutscene and there are none of those (or battle scenes) that feature blood. The only time we see blood in the OG is the cinematic where sephiroth removes jenova’s head and the walls/floors of shinra HQ. Notice how both of these are gone in the remake. It turns out the ghosts are just a meta representation of ESRB and that’s why shinra HQ has so many. Someone had to make the blood purple after all. HORSEPORN fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Apr 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:10
|
|
|
I don't think it needs to be dumped on the player in its entirety right away, but I do think there is some value is going "who the gently caress is Sephiroth to you guys anyway?" as the original game did and not leaving it a big and pointless mystery for the next 10 hours. As it is, "the mystery" such as it is is taking up valuable mental real estate in a new player's head, and like everyone's been saying it's not really even supposed to be that mysterious going forward.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:14
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I don't think it needs to be dumped on the player in its entirety right away, but I do think there is some value is going "who the gently caress is Sephiroth to you guys anyway?" as the original game did and not leaving it a big and pointless mystery for the next 10 hours. As it is, "the mystery" such as it is is taking up valuable mental real estate in a new player's head, and like everyone's been saying it's not really even supposed to be that mysterious going forward. Well yeah, that’s the gist of what I’m saying. Certain parts of it still need to be shown and explained but the first ten hours of the remake will be jammed with so much sensory overloading poo poo like giant impaled snakes, a mako reactor, junon, chocobos, and the gold saucer, that it makes more sense to have the giant downbeat exposition sometime after that. Up until nibelheim in the OG the plot has no problem moving because you’re constantly moving past some obstacle or exploring a character’s backstory. Immediately after the dyne/Barrett conclusion the story stops moving itself and becomes downright unmotivated and bland both in locale and mystique with the one exception being your foray into the temple of ancients and a snowboarding mini game. The second segment of this remake is definitely not going to go anywhere beyond the first visit to the northern crater so something needs to be the equivalent of part one’s plate drop before we get to the inevitable shock and awe moment they’re going to make their aerith thing be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:26
|
|
|
I've mentioned this before, but I think the boat from Junon to Costa del Sol would actually be a good place for storytime because it's a natural place for some downtime where the characters have nothing else to do but wait anyway. And then the creepy Jenova stuff can happen right after. Or not. Depends on how far they're willing to change things up. Like the trip hardly takes any time at all in the original game, but from a ground level view of the world you'd except it to take a day or two at least. And it can come right after some fast-paced snake-Junon action stuff. Clarste fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Apr 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:30
|
|
|
If I had to do my spitball guess, it's gonna be less 'who is Sephiroth to you guys' but maybe more 'here's more Seph backstory'. You'll get some Crisis Core flashbacks where he was sane, maybe some dumb childhood stuff with Hojo, etc. to make him more tragic or something. But without making him any less evil. Ardyn had a 'tragic' backstory but it didn't mean you wanted to punch him in the face any less.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:30
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:If I had to do my spitball guess, it's gonna be less 'who is Sephiroth to you guys' but maybe more 'here's more Seph backstory'. You'll get some Crisis Core flashbacks where he was sane, maybe some dumb childhood stuff with Hojo, etc. to make him more tragic or something. But without making him any less evil. If I’m not mistaken the whole “Rufus helped create avalanche” thing is from crisis core and they’re clearly playing into that here so none of this would shock me either.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:33
|
|
|
HORSEPORN posted:If I’m not mistaken the whole “Rufus helped create avalanche” thing is from crisis core and they’re clearly playing into that here so none of this would shock me either. Before Crisis, but close.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:35
|
|
|
For what it's worth, you do see a sane, "relatively normal dude" Sephiroth at the beginning of the original flashbacks too. It wasn't just a Crisis Core invention. Like he has a normal conversation with Shinra grunt Cloud about how it feels coming back to his hometown.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:35
|
|
|
I know conversation has moved on a bit, but with regards to the scene of Sephiroth absorbing Meteor after the Whispers fight, I didn't take that or the following fight as literal. I thought those were both still the Whispers. They were losing the fight and were trying to show the party "This is what you're risking if you don't follow the script". I didn't think we actually saw Sephiroth (or his ghost or whatever) in the destiny dimension until the scene in the void. And they gotta keep the flashback. After all the extra characterization they put into Tifa and Cloud in this game, you think they're gonna skip on a chance for more of that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:36
|
|
|
Clarste posted:For what it's worth, you do see a sane, "relatively normal dude" Sephiroth at the beginning of the original flashbacks too. It wasn't just a Crisis Core invention. Fair, but that’s doesn’t mean they’re not leaning into the background and lore of the entire ff7 suite of games. It was always weird that Rufus showed up right after daddy died in the OG but I don’t specifically remember the Turks getting a call from him beforehand saying they’re needed for an operation. Maybe I’m crazy or something but I really think that whole bit is just using a random throwback factoid from a barely-canon game to justify Rufus showing up at the last second. Did they even show why President Shinra ended up hanging from the ledge anyway? What I’m saying is dirge of Cerberus Vincent is on the table here and we’re going to get an even dumber version of Vincent than what people who only played the OG are expecting. Crowetron posted:And they gotta keep the flashback. After all the extra characterization they put into Tifa and Cloud in this game, you think they're gonna skip on a chance for more of that? HORSEPORN fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Apr 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:41
|
|
|
Oh they are absolutely leaning on side canon with like the huge focus on Zack in the ending and SOLDIER type-G and Leslie and Kyrie showing up at all.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:44
|
|
|
On the other hand, there's a trip to a secret lab beneath Midgar and not one even oblique reference to Deepground, so they at least know not everything is worth bringing back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:48
|
|
|
Crowetron posted:On the other hand, there's a trip to a secret lab beneath Midgar and not one even oblique reference to Deepground, so they at least know not everything is worth bringing back. It’s a good thing you pointed this out because I had completely memory holed that bit of garbage. I now appreciate this remake even more. Unrelated: I hope the house in costa del sol is purchasable for an even more insane price and does nothing besides allow you to control the jukebox inside it. HORSEPORN fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Apr 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:55
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Oh they are absolutely leaning on side canon with like the huge focus on Zack in the ending and SOLDIER type-G and Leslie and Kyrie showing up at all. Wait, they're expanded universe characters?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 10:58
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Wait, they're expanded universe characters? They're both from a book titles "The kids are all right" https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII_The_Kids_Are_Alright:_A_Turks_Side_Story
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 11:03
|
|
|
I'm hoping the subsequent remake games can be more efficient about preserving the cast of characters because, improbable as it is to keep running into the same NPCs across the entire world, it's not satisfying to introduce a whole bunch of new characters for one storyline and then drop them forever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 11:08
|
|
|
The Wall Market detaches from Midgar and flies around the world as an airship.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 11:15
|
|
|
Clarste posted:The Wall Market detaches from Midgar and flies around the world as an airship. I would unironically play this DLC as long as it includes the diva costume system from x-2 and had the cast of the honeybee inn as playable characters with no gender locked classes. It’s the closest I’ll ever get to a FFT remake to boot. Actually, gently caress it. Make the honeybee inn the time ghosts of FFT and cloud gets dumped off there by the alternate universe zack who stopped there for some strange and forgot cloud before he went to hit up aerith. Cloud has to get to ivalice somehow. Also, the queer-folk time bees automatically copy your save before riovanes castle so you don’t soft lock yourself. HORSEPORN fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Apr 17, 2020 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 11:19
|
|
|
Regardless of how you feel about the ending, there's one thing we can all agree on: Part 2 needs more dance battles.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 11:31
|
|
|
The 50-hour Gold Saucer game ends in a dance battle vs. Tankceratops.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 11:39
|
|
|
Costa Del Sol was such a great setpiece, mainly for the timing. You just get off of that haunted boat where Jenova killed a bunch of people, and then suddenly it's Barret being a teddy bear wearing a marshmallow and kids kicking a ball at Red. I will be very sad if all that doesn't make it back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 12:03
|
|
|
HORSEPORN posted:Nevermind that they can’t even faithfully recreate the scene because it’s going to be awfully hard to show several people get stabbed or cut navel to chin and not get an M rating. How do you even show something like cloud getting skewered, running the blade through his own stomach, and then lifting the entire weight of a man from the SHARP end of a katana before throwing him into a pit? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=337v5tWg0q4&t=317s
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 12:03
|
|
|
I mean... You get back stabbed from the Buster Sword held sideways and I'm pretty sure your just bisected.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 13:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 05:10 |
|
|
Having the Nail Bat equipped for everything after chapter 17 should be mandatory, it makes every cutscene much better.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2020 14:18
|
|
