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Coronavirus spread to the US from Europe, and the US response was dysfunctional because of decades of ignoring and underfunding public health in favor of endless wars and corporate tax cuts. And the obsession with making money blinded governors who didn't close their states until well after they should have even though they had access to enough information from other countries to make that decision regardless of what Trump was saying This only being a problem because of Trump "rolling over for China" in January is Fox News level stupid, which is about what I'd expect from Joe Biden.
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Apr 17, 2020 12:58
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evilweasel posted:we’re not talking about them. we are talking about posters who are trying to manufacture nonsense that is utterly unmoored from reality, which will be defended not by any coherent thought but screeching about how dare anyone disagree with their dumb take, as we are already seeing lol, right back at it, huh weaz?
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Apr 17, 2020 12:58
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evilweasel posted:we’re not talking about them. we are talking about posters who are trying to manufacture nonsense that is utterly unmoored from reality, which will be defended not by any coherent thought but screeching about how dare anyone disagree with their dumb take, as we are already seeing The vision of China as some authoritarian Boogeyman put forth by Western media and used by politicians in both US parties in rooted in a very well established history of racist, Orientalist "yellow peril" rhetoric with a healthy helping of red-baiting to go along with it. It's not a defense of the Chinese government to recognize that and you acting as if the "objective" political facts of the situation are somehow mutually exclusive from the obvious sinophobic influence at work here is such a poor troll that I'm surprised anyone fell for it.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:06
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1250912580127920130?s=19 When you really think about it, Trump is just doing them a favor!
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Apr 17, 2020 13:10
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A big flaming stink posted:lol, right back at it, huh weaz? It's a constant feature of this thread at this point, along with the Rona death count piling up and the endless stream of bullshit coming from the White House.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:14
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Mat Cauthon posted:The vision of China as some authoritarian Boogeyman put forth by Western media and used by politicians in both US parties in rooted in a very well established history of racist, Orientalist "yellow peril" rhetoric with a healthy helping of red-baiting to go along with it. there has certainly been racism in the way the us deals with china. why, the country's policy right now is official racism to china. but what you're trying to do here, suggest that there can thus be no criticism of china (and particularly donald trump's record on it) without it being racism is nonsense. one of trump's significant failures w/r/t standing up to china is in perticular his utter refusal to support the pro-democracy protesters
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Apr 17, 2020 13:17
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A big flaming stink posted:lol, right back at it, huh weaz? i mean, that's how this works and it's necessary to call it out ahead of time. you say a dumb, controversial but obviously wrong thing, and then when called on it white noise posters will try to pressure anyone who challenges it out of the thread by, say: A Typical Goon posted:Maybe if you're incredibly stupid and unable to connect two thoughts and then vitalsign's post which is best just not quoted. it is, unfortunately, a major feature of how obviously wrong thought become "thread wisdom". but go complain about it if you want when my post was already correct when you complained about it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 17, 2020 13:23
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evilweasel posted:but what you're trying to do here, suggest that there can thus be no criticism of china (and particularly donald trump's record on it) without it being racism is nonsense. Yeah that's not what I said, nice try though.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:24
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That means soon the only jaguars in America will be found in Jacksonville thanks to 
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Apr 17, 2020 13:30
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Mat Cauthon posted:Yeah that's not what I said, nice try though. it is. the stuff i posted isn't even what the article is about, it's clearly illustrating the nonsense of the "how can saying failed to stand up to china be anything but racist?" china's a country, lead by an authoritarian government: criticism of china is not criticism of "the chinese people". it can be: just look at trump. but that's not what the post i was responding to, and you chose to defend, said. further, let's look at the actual statements from the article: quote:What they're saying: The DNC's War Room writes in the memo that it's an understatement to call Trump weak on China and that he "rolled over in a way that has been catastrophic for our country" and "put himself and his political fortunes first." this is not in any way racist, supported by solid reporting, and nobody's giving any sort of explanation why it would be racist
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Apr 17, 2020 13:31
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evilweasel posted:
Because it's not the actual cause of the US' dysfunctional response, it's just a scapegoat for decades of short-sighted domestic policy (that Biden himself had a hand in) You're doing that thing chuds do when they say "Chinese coronavirus" isn't a racist deflection because it's factually accurate that it started in China
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Apr 17, 2020 13:38
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VitalSigns posted:Because it's not the actual cause of the US' dysfunctional response, it's just a scapegoat for decades of short-sighted domestic policy (that Biden himself had a hand in) When Trump says 'China is the bad evul, and Biden loves China' replying with 'You don't act like China is evil' is not actually saying China is evil.
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Apr 17, 2020 13:51
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https://twitter.com/__BigO__/status/1250533608500211715?s=19 The best Twitter thread, and a reminder about who really matter
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Apr 17, 2020 13:54
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Sarcastr0 posted:When Trump says 'China is the bad evul, and Biden loves China' replying with 'You don't act like China is evil' is not actually saying China is evil. Ok but Biden adds the part "and that has been catastrophic for our country" sooooo
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Apr 17, 2020 13:54
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VitalSigns posted:Ok but Biden adds the part "and that has been catastrophic for our country" sooooo Back in January and February, Trump kept downplaying COVID-19 by saying that Xi had it all under control. Criticizing a government isn't the same as being a racist
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Apr 17, 2020 13:58
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Martian posted:https://twitter.com/__BigO__/status/1250533608500211715?s=19  https://twitter.com/sicksole23/status/1250562981395681281
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Apr 17, 2020 14:00
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VitalSigns posted:Ok but Biden adds the part "and that has been catastrophic for our country" sooooo the trump admin specifically refused to prepare for covid-19 because of it. read the linked nyt article. that has been, uh, "catastrophic" because an extra two months of the federal government being serious about it would have saved tens of thousands of lives
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Apr 17, 2020 14:04
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Willo567 posted:Back in January and February, Trump kept downplaying COVID-19 by saying that Xi had it all under control. Yeah but again that's not even in like the top 10 reasons why the US or even just Trump's response alone was a shitshow. Trump would not have been on top of it and rolled out testing and PPE and proactively shut down the country even if he hadn't been negotiating with Xi on January, because Trump is a lazy greedy moron who will say anything to keep stocks up for one more hour. He still isn't doing any of that poo poo now, and it's not because he's still "rolling over for Xi"! Taking some minor factor and blaming our problems on it is scapegoating no matter how much you make the "well technically it happened" defense. Just like Republicans bringing up violent crimes by illegal immigrants all the time, yeah those crimes happened but they're not the cause of crime. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 14:07
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah but again that's not even in like the top 10 reasons why the US or even just Trump's response alone was a shitshow. Trump would not have been on top of it and rolled out testing and PPE and proactively shut down the country even if he hadn't been negotiating with Xi on January, because Trump is a lazy greedy moron who will say anything to keep stocks up for one more hour. there are plenty of "trump is an incompetent numbskull who would manage to sink a boat sitting in a drydock on land" style attacks as well
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Apr 17, 2020 14:10
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evilweasel posted:the trump admin specifically refused to prepare for covid-19 because of it. read the linked nyt article. That is obviously not the reason unless you're asserting Trump would have prepared for covid-19 if negotiations hadn't been ongoing.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:11
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I'm, personally, not worried about how the talking heads at Fox News will spin any statement because there's literally no statement you can't spin the way you want it when you're willingly to just straight up tell lies about what people said.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:18
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Ok I read the nyt article and they cite plenty of other reasons that Trump ignored it, which are exactly what I said: distrust of experts, desire to protect gains in the economy, normalcy bias "it will all go away", internal turf wars, the president's own ego, etc Negotiations with China are a minor contributor if they contributed at all, Biden is focusing on it because racist scapegoating is the typical response to failure in this country.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:20
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VitalSigns posted:That is obviously not the reason unless you're asserting Trump would have prepared for covid-19 if negotiations hadn't been ongoing. the trump admin might not have made it a policy that the rest of the government could not prepare for it. obviously the white house wouldn't have done poo poo. but at the end of the day this seems like a really odd factual quibble to have against a political attack ad
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Apr 17, 2020 14:23
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Herstory Begins Now posted:There's a very peculiar belief in the US that I never really can understand the basis for that just assumes that for some never-defined structural reason, things like vote fraud or election fuckery, paid plants (whether in protests or in the various public places where discussions happen, from literal town halls to academia to online forums) and the like just can not possibly exist here. It's an insane supposition because those things have all been literal constants throughout human history in every society and I've certainly never heard an even remotely compelling case for why the US would somehow be immune to those things. Do you have any data supporting the assertion that Americans believe that their country is immune to election fraud? Both parties assume it is a major issue, I've learned bout the history of it in every school I went to (across public schools in the South and Northeast, including a school on an Air Force Base where the principal bizarrely took time out of a 4th grade history class to explain the Kennedy assassination and its surrounding theories). Not saying you're wrong here, but your response is so counter to my experience, education and the current political stances of both mainstream parties that it honestly comes off as either condescending knee jerk nationalism from someone outside the US, or a half-baked thought that slipped out after one too many edibles. You seem like a decent dude so I'm assuming the latter (it's where I'm at after all) but want to nip the potential nationalist assumptions in the bud, before simmering said bud in oil and turning it into a delicious set of weed cookies.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:23
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251138465246449664
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Apr 17, 2020 14:32
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evilweasel posted:the trump admin might not have made it a policy that the rest of the government could not prepare for it. obviously the white house wouldn't have done poo poo. Oh he absolutely would have. Trump punished people for preparing for it even after he'd pivoted to going racist on China, because he feared preparations would spook the markets. I think the Democrat leaning into racism to attack Trump is bad. I also think it's dumb, even if we ignore the effects on Asian Americans of both parties blaming the US' failures on China, you can't out-racist Trump because he doesn't give a gently caress, he'll say anything. Biden still has to work with a bunch of stakeholders if he wins so he can't say crazy anti-China poo poo, Trump can because he doesn't care. It's the same mistake Rubio made.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:32
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evilweasel posted:we’re not talking about them. we are talking about posters who are trying to manufacture nonsense that is utterly unmoored from reality, which will be defended not by any coherent thought but screeching about how dare anyone disagree with their dumb take, as we are already seeing We're past the point of manufactured nonsense effecting anyone's opinions on this board. Twitter is total trash that works to give you info that supports what you think while allowing you to easily ignore what challenges you, it's trash and most people already get it. There's no point in saying anything beyond "read the full article/thread, dumbass" as a signal to others that the poster is a potential lair/idiot Please stop getting worked up about this pointless garbage, your posts about the contents of bills and whatnot are actually useful. It sucks when you keep getting baited into 30 day probes over this horseshit that doesn't matter because then you aren't around to set the record straight on things that do matter (and for some reason I've never seen you blow your top when working thru legalese, so maybe swapping focus will work out for your blood pressure too).
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Apr 17, 2020 14:34
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There needs to be a serious inquiry into WHO's handling of the early stages of COVID-19 and possibly retooling the organization so they're more insulated from pressures that would encourage them to downplay situations. I don't know if that's going to happen with Trump working hard to poison the well and eliminate any US influence over the body, though.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:48
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This turn around is almost a case study in why leadership is important. If a business, like a bank, is designed to make money their automatic systems will not be curtailed unless there is a clear reason to. So if you had, say a Treasury Secretary who put forth the guidance that "No, this money is meant for immediate relief and should not be automatically collected towards debt and companies found doing so will be fined.", then you could have not only given a north star to companies about what the money's purpose was* but could have prevented ALL the banks from having their automatically set up systems** from doing this nonsense. * because of course in capitalism you can't trust business to act right ** siloed departments who focus only on collections won't change their practices unless told to.
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Apr 17, 2020 14:51
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https://twitter.com/amychozick/status/1251141740637097984 https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1251143917593980928 Dick Trauma fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 15:00
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yeah, you know what? he's 100% right
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Apr 17, 2020 15:00
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I am really sorry to do this, I hit last page by accident and lost my place where I was in the thread. Someone posted a NYT article of someone who is the lone overwatch on the bailout Trump is doing and listed some of the companies that are getting it. Does anyone have that article handy? I was looking for it on Google/NYT and I could not find it. Just wanted to get an idea of who is actually getting bailout dollars.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:01
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Enigma89 posted:I am really sorry to do this, I hit last page by accident and lost my place where I was in the thread. Someone posted a NYT article of someone who is the lone overwatch on the bailout Trump is doing and listed some of the companies that are getting it. Does anyone have that article handy? I was looking for it on Google/NYT and I could not find it. Just wanted to get an idea of who is actually getting bailout dollars. it's this guy, here's his twitter and the op-ed he wrote about being the only person on oversight https://twitter.com/BharatRamamurti/status/1250764444319256583
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Apr 17, 2020 15:04
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251146022665048064
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Apr 17, 2020 15:04
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Enigma89 posted:I am really sorry to do this, I hit last page by accident and lost my place where I was in the thread. Someone posted a NYT article of someone who is the lone overwatch on the bailout Trump is doing and listed some of the companies that are getting it. Does anyone have that article handy? I was looking for it on Google/NYT and I could not find it. Just wanted to get an idea of who is actually getting bailout dollars. I don’t think this is what you asked for but this is what I remember being posted about this: https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/1250245057468346369?s=21
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Apr 17, 2020 15:07
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Slowpoke! posted:I don’t think this is what you asked for but this is what I remember being posted about this: Amazing this was it, thank you!
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Apr 17, 2020 15:09
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evilweasel posted:the trump admin might not have made it a policy that the rest of the government could not prepare for it. obviously the white house wouldn't have done poo poo. when you are forced into the corner of saying "Trump and his minions would have done something good were it not for the perfidious China-Man" you know you are on firm ground, because otherwise all the Fox News anchors wouldn't be standing shoulder to shoulder with you
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Apr 17, 2020 15:14
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Willo567 posted:Back in January and February, Trump kept downplaying COVID-19 by saying that Xi had it all under control. Likewise, every government will try to paint a criticism of its actions as a criticism of its people (another thing Trump and Xi have in common). It's ultimately absurd since by that logic, outside nations criticizing Nazis for the holocaust is racist (I would bet anything that there are Nazis making that argument). Really, if you equate the state to its people than any criticizing the Chinese for their ongoing genocides could be considered racist, or criticism of the ICE detention centers could be considered racist. I just don't think that anyone outside of true believers are going to buy that argument because it contradicts itself so often. Like see this: Mat Cauthon posted:The vision of China as some authoritarian Boogeyman put forth by Western media and used by politicians in both US parties in rooted in a very well established history of racist, Orientalist "yellow peril" rhetoric with a healthy helping of red-baiting to go along with it. If Americans are primed to view China as authoritarian, they are primed to see China as a government that is not representative of its people - meaning that they would not see direct criticism of the Chinese government in racial terms. America has a history of severe, hardcore racism against China that can be seen in the hate crimes being committed against Asian people. But a direct criticism of an government can't really have dog whistles worked in when you've gone out of the way to establish that the government is wholly separate from its people. The real thing to be on the lookout for are vague terms used to place blame across the Chinese people as a whole, like calling the virus the "Chinese" virus. To help relay the difference, experiment between swapping "Chinese" with "Jewish" and "Chinese government" with "Israeli Government". There's a lot of dog whistling by racists trying to muddy the waters to justify atrocities here, but there's a big difference between saying "Jewish people withheld info that damaged the US" and "the Israeli government withheld info that damaged the US". Ones an obvious racial dog whistle, the other is well-justified criticism and you can gauruntee politicians are gonna try to muddy things up.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:16
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Bifner McDoogle posted:If Americans are primed to view China as authoritarian, they are primed to see China as a government that is not representative of its people - meaning that they would not see direct criticism of the Chinese government in racial terms. especially not for the American public lmao (I'm not saying all criticism of China's government is this, but blaming China's government for poo poo Trump did definitely is this. Criticizing China's government for withholding information is valid, blaming the US government's response on this is obviously not valid because the US government didn't respond even after Italy's example was plain to all)
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Apr 17, 2020 15:21
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Baby get badder news today? He’s pretty colicky
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Apr 17, 2020 15:24
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