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Nancy's got another video to shoot of her $20,000 refrigerator.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:25
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Bifner McDoogle posted:Do you have any data supporting the assertion that Americans believe that their country is immune to election fraud? Both parties assume it is a major issue, I've learned bout the history of it in every school I went to (across public schools in the South and Northeast, including a school on an Air Force Base where the principal bizarrely took time out of a 4th grade history class to explain the Kennedy assassination and its surrounding theories). Conservatives recently have started to much more broadly believe in a purely self-serving version of it that is more a dog whistle cover for racist efforts to suppress minority turnout than actually believing that illegitimate efforts are being undertaken. While similar in some ways, it's not the same thing. Similarly, the left mostly considers it real only insofar as efforts to suppress minority voters can be called voter fraud. There's also a phenomenon where when people believe a system is being cheated they'll try to cheat as well. 2000 and 2008 both had some impact on perceived election integrity, but surprisingly little. It's really the left that tends to be particularly credulous. Anyways I raised this in a wishy washy way because I don't have any concrete direction to point it in other than the absolute historical constant of people on all sides doing everything possible to gently caress with elections. https://news.gallup.com/poll/196976/update-americans-confidence-voting-election.aspx
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Apr 17, 2020 15:25
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Obviously this is McConnell's fault for putting the senate in recess, but why can't the House be passing aid bills in the meantime and then attacking McConnell for ignoring it This seems like an easy layup
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Apr 17, 2020 15:26
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It's really the left that tends to be particularly credulous. A good example of this is the DNC sending plants for CNN to call on in their town halls. People who worked for the Democratic party but were identified as "a Maryland voter" or "a former schoolteacher" or whatever. Even after their true employment was revealed you had tons of people in here insisting it must have been a total coincidence that they all just absent-mindedly forgot who their current employer was and then happened to get called on by CNN to ask their ridiculous loaded questions. I think at least part of the answer is how the corporate media is one of the most successful propaganda operations in history. People believe that watching the news is what makes you an informed person, and they are extremely resistant to the idea that anything else other than neutral objecting informing is going on.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:30
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VitalSigns posted:Obviously this is McConnell's fault for putting the senate in recess, but why can't the House be passing aid bills in the meantime and then attacking McConnell for ignoring it the house has passed dozens if not hundreds of great bills that the senate ignored and attacked McConnell over it. the fact that almost nobody knows this is the case is a testament to how well it works. but as to your specific question: the house cannot do anything without congregating in person (a bad idea right now) except by unanimous consent (which republicans would object to right now), so Pelosi would need to convince everyone to come back to DC and meet in person (though doing this carefully to pass new rules re: remote voting seems like it would be a good idea) and so there you gotta weigh the real risk of spreading covid among an at-risk population vs the political benefit. edit: rereading this post makes me realize that the comment someone recently made on my writing, that I should limit the use of parentheses to maybe once per paragraph and any more made it much less readable, was quite accurate evilweasel fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 15:31
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Pelosi said yesterday she'd be be in favor of remote voting though it looks like it would need both sides to sign off. Would something like this need a house bill to pass and for the senate to sign off? Bit ironic considering the recess. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/493182-rules-chairman-advises-pelosi-to-back-remove-voting
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Apr 17, 2020 15:35
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VitalSigns posted:there's a ton of orientalist crap about how Asian peoples are naturally predisposed to authoritarian governments so this is not true at all I was typing up basically the same thing but you beat me to it. There is tons of writing and critical analysis on the ubiquity of Orientalist influence is Western politics and discourse, right down to the deliberate propensity of area studies in academia to churn out wonks who write variations on the same "We can't trust those inscrutable Chinese" article every year. Just look at all the articles that assume the reason why South Korea had a strong response to the pandemic was "Asian predisposition to trusting their government and a culture of efficiency". It is very possible to criticize a government, even China, without racism but very few entities or individuals in the US care to take the time or effort to do because it's in there interest not to.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:36
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VitalSigns posted:there's a ton of orientalist crap about how Asian peoples are naturally predisposed to authoritarian governments so this is not true at all I see you deliberately cut off the part of my post that counters this arguement, so let me reiterate: Bifner McDoogle posted:The real thing to be on the lookout for are vague terms used to place blame across the Chinese people as a whole, like calling the virus the "Chinese" virus. To help relay the difference, experiment between swapping "Chinese" with "Jewish" and "Chinese government" with "Israeli Government". There's a lot of dog whistling by racists trying to muddy the waters to justify atrocities here, but there's a big difference between saying "Jewish people withheld info that damaged the US" and "the Israeli government withheld info that damaged the US". Ones an obvious racial dog whistle, the other is well-justified criticism and you can gauruntee politicians are gonna try to muddy things up. People seriously loving hate Jews, as in someone in Massachusettes just tried to blow up a Jewish Assissted Living Center yesterday. We can still criticize Isreal without being racist to Jews, just like we can criticize the CCP without being racist to the Chinese. To believe otherwise is to assume that one cannot criticize a government without criticizing not just it's people, but it's race. Through your lovely arguement you've unintentionally worked yourself into a position where we can't criticize the Chinese government because it's an ethno-nationalist state that perfectly represents its people (or is at least widely believed to be, despite everyone seeing it as Authoritarian at the same time) so such criticisms are racist. Do you assume the same thing about Isreal, or are you an unintentionally funny hack that couldn't cut it at the high school debate club? Bifner McDoogle fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 15:40
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Louisgod posted:Pelosi said yesterday she'd be be in favor of remote voting though it looks like it would need both sides to sign off. Would something like this need a house bill to pass and for the senate to sign off? Bit ironic considering the recess. You need unanimous consent or an in-person vote (Massie would probably object). Makes sense to just do it along with the next in-person vote you’d need anyway rather than do it when it might not be needed.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:43
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Early US cases almost certainly came from China btw. The US did literally nothing to restrict travel for weeks and weeks as the outbreak raged and there's a huge amount of international travel between all parts of China and the US. This is born out by the most common early strains of covid found in the US (and australia for that matter, which shares a similar travel situation) being the chinese variants as opposed to the different variant prominent in europe. Still doesn't make all the anti-chinese stuff not wildly xenophobic blame shifting that should be obvious to everyone. Anti-Chinese racism has long been an entirely bipartisan phenomenon and it ties into nearly two centuries of american classism. It's really deeply engrained
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Apr 17, 2020 15:45
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Bifner McDoogle posted:I see you deliberately cut off the part of my post that counters this arguement, so let me reiterate: Bifner McDoogle posted:Through your lovely arguement you've unintentionally worked yourself into a position where we can't criticize the Chinese government because it's an ethno-nationalist state that perfectly represents its people, so such criticisms are racist. No I haven't I explicitly said you can criticize the Chinese government, read what I said again. VitalSigns posted:
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Apr 17, 2020 15:46
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Bifner McDoogle posted:Through your lovely arguement you've unintentionally worked yourself into a position where we can't criticize the Chinese government because it's an ethno-nationalist state that perfectly represents its people (or is at least widely believed to be, despite everyone seeing it as Authoritarian at the same time) so such criticisms are racist. Do you assume the same thing about Isreal, or are you an unintentionally funny hack that couldn't cut it at the high school debate club? Neither I nor VS said anything about the Chinese government being beyond criticism or somehow perfectly representative of its people, you're making a bunch of blanket statements to misconstrue the argument at hand here. That you chose to use Israel, a state that overtly leans into ethnonationalism as a way to deflect criticism, as your counterfactual here by way of referencing an anti-Semitic attack here in the US is the real joke, btw.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:49
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evilweasel posted:the house has passed dozens if not hundreds of great bills that the senate ignored and attacked McConnell over it. the fact that almost nobody knows this is the case is a testament to how well it works. yeah but there's a lot more focus on congress right now due to the crisis, the House being in session passing bills while McConnell stays at home would make it clear who's really at fault here, normally there's not this much media focus on congress and people don't really know what the House is passing. Aside, this is a good reason bicameralism is a bad idea. essential workers are risking their lives every day to hold the country together, if our government can't step up to their public service duties like Piggly Wiggly stockers are, maybe it's time for our geriatric reps to retire. They should be careful about meeting obviously, and ideally they should pass remote voting legislation, but just staying home isn't acceptable imo
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Apr 17, 2020 15:55
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Bellmaker posted:Baby get badder news today? He’s pretty colicky I would guess it's due to the news that the emergency small business assistance fund just ran dry so the economy has returned to imploding at the previous, higher rate
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Apr 17, 2020 15:56
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Conservatives recently have started to much more broadly believe in a purely self-serving version of it that is more a dog whistle cover for racist efforts to suppress minority turnout than actually believing that illegitimate efforts are being undertaken. While similar in some ways, it's not the same thing. Similarly, the left mostly considers it real only insofar as efforts to suppress minority voters can be called voter fraud. There's also a phenomenon where when people believe a system is being cheated they'll try to cheat as well. 2000 and 2008 both had some impact on perceived election integrity, but surprisingly little. Thanks, that's pretty illuminating. The drop off in 06-08 really does demonstrate what you're suggesting here - conservatives didn't care for whatever reason till they started losing, then started caring in a real disingenuous way. I guess more people in the 90's and early 00's assumed that electoral fraud was a thing of the past than I expected - must be a generational thing (my first election was 08' so I've always heard of it).
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Apr 17, 2020 15:57
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There are a lot of useful nuances that can be conveyed in a considered political argument that get completely lost in national partisan propaganda campaigns, such as the distinction between a government's corrupt actions and national/racial character.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:10
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haveblue posted:I would guess it's due to the news that the emergency small business assistance fund just ran dry so the economy has returned to imploding at the previous, higher rate Every day that passes is a possibility cloud of further stimulus collapsing into "This Is Fine" coffee drinking.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:11
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Mat Cauthon posted:Neither I nor VS said anything about the Chinese government being beyond criticism or somehow perfectly representative of its people, you're making a bunch of blanket statements to misconstrue the argument at hand here. Look, I'm not saying you believe the Chinese government is beyond criticism. I know you and VS think otherwise. I'm demonstrating that the chain of logic you are using in this situation would force you to that conclusion because it has no nuance whatsoever. Its a rhetorical tool that demonstrates how absurd your thinking is. Mat Cauthon posted:That you chose to use Israel, a state that overtly leans into ethnonationalism as a way to deflect criticism, as your counterfactual here by way of referencing an anti-Semitic attack here in the US is the real joke, btw. That's sort of the point, though. Israel (like China) is a genocidal ethnonationlist state. Americans are racist against Jews and the Chinese and commit horrible hate crimes against them. One of the things people use to try and justify their racism is to point out that that Israel and China are genocidal ethnonationlist states. That's a bullshit arguement because a state is different than the people it claims to represent. The inverse argument -that criticizing a government is racist - is bullshit for the same reason. When China kills a shitload of Uigher Muslims or botches a pandemic response and dismisses reporting on it as a racist conspiracy, that's bullshit. When Israel blows up a block of Palestinians and dismisses reporting on it as anti-Semitic, that's bullshit.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:26
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251169217531056130 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251169987110330372 what the gently caress
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Apr 17, 2020 16:27
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 Uhhh. Is he calling for supporters to literally rise up?
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Apr 17, 2020 16:28
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 ???????????
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Apr 17, 2020 16:28
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Flip Yr Wig posted:There are a lot of useful nuances that can be conveyed in a considered political argument that get completely lost in national partisan propaganda campaigns, such as the distinction between a government's corrupt actions and national/racial character. This is a smarter and more articulate post that communicates what I was trying to say before endless trash spewed out of my mouth and into my posts so I should leave it here.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:30
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Global trade is dying Cloud. https://splash247.com/liner-bankruptcy-potential-spreads-in-step-with-the-coronavirus/ https://splash247.com/liner-bankruptcy-potential-at-highest-levels-recorded/
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Apr 17, 2020 16:31
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 He is pissed because the gop got curbed super hard in those places.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:34
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Trump putting himself in direct opposition to the ridiculously popular local governments of these states is such a loving stupid strategy Jesus Christ.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:34
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 
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Apr 17, 2020 16:34
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Whelp, time to go on the weekly grocery run
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Apr 17, 2020 16:35
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There Bias Two posted:Uhhh. Is he calling for supporters to literally rise up? I think, and I'm being very generous with my interpretation, that he's calling for opposition to those states' governors and electing Republicans. It can't be about opening up businesses there since it's specifically targeted. It is couched in violent rhetoric because 90% of everything from the right is couched in violent rhetoric.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:35
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 Well, piss baby's awake. So stay at home is now code for "we're taking your guns".
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Apr 17, 2020 16:36
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Lol it wasn’t even an original thought https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1251171455901020160
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Apr 17, 2020 16:36
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 What in the gently caress is Minnesota rising up against? E: Holy poo poo it really is just part of the news feed he's watching. Bifner McDoogle fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 16:37
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Bifner McDoogle posted:What in the gently caress is Minnesota rising up against? See my previous post.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:37
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Jesus christ has this useless orange turd done anything besides sit around and watch TV his entire presidency? I just can't even...
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Apr 17, 2020 16:41
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I got a feeling that the second amendment part was Trump pretty much telling his supporters to kill someone and then after that happens he goes "oh I meant protect it in the polls". It's that whole second amendment solutions bullshit all over again. He is hoping some militias see his tweets.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:41
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Jows posted:Jesus christ has this useless orange turd done anything besides sit around and watch TV his entire presidency? I just can't even... He's golfed. Madkal posted:I got a feeling that the second amendment part was Trump pretty much telling his supporters to kill someone and then after that happens he goes "oh I meant protect it in the polls". It's that whole second amendment solutions bullshit all over again. He is hoping some militias see his tweets. It's because Virgina passed a new gun control bill.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:42
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There Bias Two posted:Uhhh. Is he calling for supporters to literally rise up? There's currently an astroturfed protest movement against the pandemic response in at least one of those states and I'd be surprised if we don't see more of the same in the near future so this is probably big orange baby responding to some news and figuring that he can maybe use it to rally the base or whatever.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:43
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Yeah for those unaware Virginia recently passed some new measure of gun control and its set off a whole new round of craziness among conservatives.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:44
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1251168994066944003 Weird thing to ask of Trudeau but sure. 
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Apr 17, 2020 16:44
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Very cool that the president is calling for an insurrection in my state
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Apr 17, 2020 16:45
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PenguinKnight posted:Very cool that the president is calling for an insurrection in my state same
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