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Popoto posted:ugh, great. So im hosed. I'll eat my shoes for a few months / rack up credit card debt on food if needed. just when you think you're out of the gutter... i'll take comfort in knowing this is prob the case for thousands and thousands of people. company through misery It's really gross. We know they have the ability to distribute this money really easily, and a lot of people need it. I understand not giving it to people still employed, but people like you, man.
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Apr 17, 2020 15:59
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Frosted Flake posted:Someone tell me this is unique to VAC and other social services aren’t so Byzantine and frustrating. it's not and they are and the rules are inflexible and lead to a lot of incredibly perverse scenarios and the systems that might alleviate that have been effectively removed because having things like dedicated case workers was just too gosh darn costly
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Apr 17, 2020 16:00
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Pinterest Mom posted:It's really gross. We know they have the ability to distribute this money really easily, and a lot of people need it. I understand not giving it to people still employed, but people like you, man. They can't show everyone its easy to just end poverty with the stroke of a pen. When is the time to turn poverty back on?
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Apr 17, 2020 16:09
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infernal machines posted:it's not and they are and the rules are inflexible and lead to a lot of incredibly perverse scenarios and the systems that might alleviate that have been effectively removed because having things like dedicated case workers was just too gosh darn costly What kills me about VAC is that it’s a 180 from military benefits. The military is push logistics. If you are hurt they sign you up for programs, if you want to go to school they sign you up and take care of all the back-end. You are constantly being asked if you need a service or to be signed up for a program. Miss a doctors appointment? Someone will check in on you. Seem down? You’ve been referred to a psych, and they went through your case history and signed you up for psychology and a neuropsychologist too. Your annual eye exam suggested you need glasses? Take this form here and pick up your 3 pairs. VAC is pull logistics. You have to ask for a program, you have to complete your application and frankly you have to know that program even exists because nobody is going to tell you. Even taking the fact that asking people with injuries, PTSD, even anxiety and depression to be incredibly active, engaged and in the driver’s seat of their own recovery aside, this is clearly not as efficient if the purpose is delivering services. VAC then responds to any criticism by saying “we have all of these services!” and sometimes “nobody is utilizing our great program”. Yeah, well no loving poo poo.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:10
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Remember when we decided that opt-in tax breaks don't actually help the people they're supposed to? VAC is like that but for injured, mentally-ill and "hard-to-employ; unspecified" veterans of all ages.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:13
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lol they’re paying to clean up the oil sectors abandoned wells private profit. public cost as usual
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Apr 17, 2020 16:28
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Noblesse Obliged posted:lol they’re paying to clean up the oil sectors abandoned wells The government is building pipelines and giving tax breaks and cleaning up their messes so private companies can hire temporary foreign workers and hide the profits offshore. Nice industry, good job.
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Apr 17, 2020 16:38
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Another Bill posted:The government is building pipelines and giving tax breaks and cleaning up their messes so private companies can hire temporary foreign workers and hide the profits offshore. CTV was interviewing a farmer about agriculture’s requirements which was 100 percent “we need our temporary foreign slaves”. when asked for the reasons why Canadians can’t do this he literally said that the reason is that we are not reliable and we cannot take the weather for harvesting. literally the same arguments from the antebellum south for why black people are needed to pick cotton
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Apr 17, 2020 16:41
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Trudeau would not answer the specific question from the press that said “will the ONLY thing that could happen to people who apply for CERB and do NOT qualify would only have to pay back the amount without any further penalty” went onto a complete non answer
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Apr 17, 2020 16:45
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Frosted Flake posted:What kills me about VAC is that it’s a 180 from military benefits. it's incredibly frustrating because we know with absolute certainty that one approach has measurably better outcomes than the other, and almost certainly saves money in the long term, but we will not implement it everywhere because we have some pathological need for "lean" government and the one place that's trivial to gut whenever you need to look like you're doing something to reduce expenditures is social services
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Apr 17, 2020 16:54
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I'm mad that Matt Taibbi's The Divide is so loving relevant right now. gently caress means testing.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:30
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Noblesse Obliged posted:Trudeau would not answer the specific question from the press that said “will the ONLY thing that could happen to people who apply for CERB and do NOT qualify would only have to pay back the amount without any further penalty” this is what the legislation says: https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/43-1/bill/C-13/royal-assent Bill c13 posted:
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Apr 17, 2020 18:37
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"Erroneous" isn't "fraudulent"
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Apr 17, 2020 18:45
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so he was being dodgy either because of section 3 where court fees will apply or they will consider it fraudulent and prosecute
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Apr 17, 2020 18:48
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either way. be careful applying for this thing.
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Apr 17, 2020 18:48
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means testing is the government testing how mean they can be before we kick them out
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Apr 17, 2020 18:52
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Noblesse Obliged posted:Trudeau would not answer the specific question from the press that said “will the ONLY thing that could happen to people who apply for CERB and do NOT qualify would only have to pay back the amount without any further penalty”
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Apr 17, 2020 19:09
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Makes you wonder how many people that barely read stuff, or don't have a good comprehension of english, apply for this, get automatically approved, and then will receive a surprise tax/repo next year or not so long after.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:10
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Concern trolling paying the money back fails to contextualize that this thing won't be over until 2022. At minimum. There'll be money needed for much, much longer than 16 weeks. Might as well start now, even bet this will bloom into pandemic UBI for all by August.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:10
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Isizzlehorn posted:Concern trolling paying the money back fails to contextualize that this thing won't be over until 2022. At minimum. There'll be money needed for much, much longer than 16 weeks. Might as well start now, even bet this will bloom into pandemic UBI for all by August. I've heard through back channels, from people working with UBI movements in Canada and in touch with some ministers, that there are current talks going on privately to implement such a measure, but that they're trying to figure out how they can pass it without it becoming a weapon against them through the conservatives later on. Or something like that.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:12
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Juul-Whip posted:they probably don't want people who still have jobs to use it as an interest-free loan personally I feel it should be universal and I couldn’t care less if rich people benefit. that’s better than poor people getting hit with a year of this benefit to payback after it’s over because there’s massive holes in it people are falling through.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:14
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Popoto posted:I've heard through back channels, from people working with UBI movements in Canada and in touch with some ministers, that there are current talks going on privately to implement such a measure, but that they're trying to figure out how they can pass it without it becoming a weapon against them through the conservatives later on. Or something like that. They used military pension for life as an election promise, and as I said that’s $100/mo in my case. I wouldn’t be surprised if UBI is $50/biweekly.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:23
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Popoto posted:I've heard through back channels, from people working with UBI movements in Canada and in touch with some ministers, that there are current talks going on privately to implement such a measure, but that they're trying to figure out how they can pass it without it becoming a weapon against them through the conservatives later on. Or something like that. The pandemic is not the only problem. The world economy is shredded and something like UBI will be needed even after it is safe to go outside.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:25
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Popoto posted:I've heard through back channels, from people working with UBI movements in Canada and in touch with some ministers, that there are current talks going on privately to implement such a measure, but that they're trying to figure out how they can pass it without it becoming a weapon against them through the conservatives later on. Or something like that. it would be very typical of the liberals to be concerned that a wildly popular social program which would put money directly in the hands of ordinary voters would somehow lose them an election
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Apr 17, 2020 19:41
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my wife is pregnant and the hospitals here are not scheduling anymore ultrasounds and all non-covid stuff is being pushed, which is interesting given the infection rate has been sitting at 12 in western manitoba for a week and a half also I heard that hospital workers in westman just started getting ppe today
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Apr 17, 2020 19:46
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Popoto posted:I've heard through back channels, from people working with UBI movements in Canada and in touch with some ministers, that there are current talks going on privately to implement such a measure, but that they're trying to figure out how they can pass it without it becoming a weapon against them through the conservatives later on. Or something like that. Lol this is the exact same poo poo they’ve been feeding me and my friends about the conversion therapy ban. gently caress this government.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:48
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Literal Hamster posted:it would be very typical of the liberals to be concerned that a wildly popular social program which would put money directly in the hands of ordinary voters would somehow lose them an election If I recall, Ontario not having pharmacare boils down to this. The Liberals can’t bear to lose their trump card for whenever the NDP polls too well.
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Apr 17, 2020 19:51
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look, if we give the donkey the carrot, how are we going to get him to go where we want? sheesh
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Apr 17, 2020 19:57
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Literal Hamster posted:it would be very typical of the liberals to be concerned that a wildly popular social program which would put money directly in the hands of ordinary voters would somehow lose them an election They don't care about winning elections. They care about their corporate funders, that's what keeps the party going.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:12
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Arivia posted:Lol this is the exact same poo poo they’ve been feeding me and my friends about the conversion therapy ban. gently caress this government. Look, you see, we're on your side and we'd absolutely love to do the good thing that we all agree is good, but you know, not everyone is as enlightened as we are, we have to be careful otherwise the conservatives will use this as an attack to win the next election and undo the good thing, so we need to take our time and test the waters with a commission and some unofficial surveys and maybe a few leaked proposals, and then implement a small-scale version of the good thing that will only apply to a few edge cases, and then if you elect us for another term we'll definitely be able to do the good thing you want then. Needless to say, this is all off the record of course.
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Apr 17, 2020 20:19
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gently caress that, just send a backbencher out there to say the loud part loud and let the sharpness of the pitchforks determine whether or not you should actually go through with it
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Apr 17, 2020 20:37
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Isn’t that what they did with electoral reform, a plan that hinged on the public believing that MP just couldn’t do math?
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Apr 17, 2020 20:45
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I was thinking more about the federal tories doing it with the abortion debate, but yeah that one works too
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Apr 17, 2020 20:47
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lol  No signing bonus, no thank you. Destroy my mental and physical health once, shame on you. Destroy my mental and physical health twice, -- you can't get fooled again. You've got to understand the nature of the regime we're dealing with.
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Apr 17, 2020 21:36
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Anybody get their GST Trudeaubux yet? I dont have direct deposit with the CRA because lmao service Canada's website, but the site says they should have been sent out on the 9th and hoo man am I poor 
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Apr 17, 2020 21:37
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Yeah, I and a couple roommates got cheques in the mail, mine was around 400.
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Apr 17, 2020 21:46
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infernal machines posted:probably the greatest canadian interesting how the best forums posters are all from the commonwealth
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Apr 17, 2020 23:00
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vyelkin posted:Look, you see, we're on your side and we'd absolutely love to do the good thing that we all agree is good, but you know, not everyone is as enlightened as we are, we have to be careful otherwise the conservatives will use this as an attack to win the next election and undo the good thing, so we need to take our time and test the waters with a commission and some unofficial surveys and maybe a few leaked proposals, and then implement a small-scale version of the good thing that will only apply to a few edge cases, and then if you elect us for another term we'll definitely be able to do the good thing you want then. Needless to say, this is all off the record of course. Yeah the whole thing is very very much couched in terms of “we don’t want to make the mildest amount of noise and provoke a charter challenge from the evangelicals” let alone make it something the Cons might vote against. Tough cookie. They’re going to do it right or not at all. E: I received my 400ish in tax rebates this month just fine but it was three different payments and I had to do some googling to figure out which is which Arivia has issued a correction as of 23:11 on Apr 17, 2020 |
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Apr 17, 2020 23:07
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I got 300 bucks, which I used to buy food and the FFVII Remake.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:10
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Apparently small business owners are getting 10000 grants and 40000 interest free loans while you Poor's are talking about a few hundred dollars. Lol.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:28
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