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Sampatrick posted:which ones do they not apply to? the current crop of paradox games all suffer from massive slow downs as the game goes on and they all have awful ai. i guess ui isnt ugly in every paradox game but i dont think stellaris ui is worse than in any other game. For me, Stellaris suffers because it needs a clearer UI to overcome the unfamiliarity of the content. In EU 4 I have an easier time dealing with confusing parts of the UI because it’s backed up by real historical geography and dates that help me understand. I went several runs without understanding how to read so many screens but it was fine because I could easily get the gist of “I’m Spain and I don’t really know what’s going on but it is 1490, I should probably try exploring by now.” Where in Stellaris I’m squinting at numbers thinking “is that…high?” It’s similar to how much easier Civ is to understand than SMAC. “Do I want pottery or the wheel” is a choice you can make even if you don’t really understand the mechanics of what you are choosing. “Do I want nerve stapling or monopole magnets” is much harder to grasp.
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Apr 16, 2020 06:22
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To me, Stellaris suffers from the wars being too lopsided. One participant finds their ships completely outclassed and there's often no coming back from the first big battle.
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Apr 16, 2020 06:39
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Stux posted:what are the pieces and how do i interact with them though i guess is what im asking. i want the complexity. i feel like its a lot easier to break the game over your knee, my first game was as a muslim duchy in iberia and i ended up holding all of spain, france, a large part of north africa and most of germany before i felt like there was no point to what i was doing anymore. the character stuff especially felt shallow and maybe that was expectations, because i was expecting it to be the focus from what i had heard, but all my rulers ended up feeling very similar. is this a problem with the game where only a small number of regions/religions have all the events or something? Uh, it's mostly dumb poo poo like finding the genetic traits, marrying into the right generations of families for the longest alliances, taking certain actions to trigger certain events. Again, check out some older Arumba CK2 content. If it doesn't do anything for you and it feels either too easy or too dull, which is pretty much where I also stand outside of the roleplaying or fun story aspects, then it's just not for you. The few games I actually enjoyed were playing Norse when Old Gods came out. The mess of Gavelkind and unruly vassals and always looting were fun until you figure out where all the potential problems come about and you get that right formula to not gently caress up. I think that the issue might be that the AI is in general quite passive feeling compared to even EU4. Flavius Aetass posted:To me, Stellaris suffers from the wars being too lopsided. One participant finds their ships completely outclassed and there's often no coming back from the first big battle. My top desired change for Stellaris would be to have all warships be basically flagships and it's more focused on how they're outfitted. It'd actually make the ship designer interesting and gives a reason for you to care about each ship.
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Apr 16, 2020 06:55
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Mister Olympus posted:That's another weird part because the whole knights-and-castles thing is way more generically popular than muskets-and-galleons in my head It's also extremely saturated. Most of fantasy is also about knights-and-castles. Also EU4 is PDX best game so there's also that. Beamed posted:Yeah it does ( Yeah, I didn't understand exclusivity moment. And beta was all on Steam. And PDX isn't Steam-exclusive now.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:04
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), Johan was really, really pissed people insisted they needed to continue supporting Gamergate and such on top of Steam, when it turned out Steam was something absurd like 90% of their sales.
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Again, check out some older Arumba CK2 content. Or check his last CK2 game where he tries Iron Century and plays for fun making arbitrary decisions. Then he goes back to EU4 and hunts achievements. Has a breakdown and plays Hearthstone. Then he plays EU4 again cause we are all slaves to Paradox.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:19
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I LOVE CK2 but I will agree that as a game that can push back against your desires EU4 is a lot better. What I mean is, it's very fun to say start as an opm and murder your way to being Emperor of whatever, but the game doesn't really know how to handle you doing so. It doesn't pushback. And in war the biggest thing EU has is the alliance system. Because CK alliances are just based on marriage they are extremely fleeting, while EU can build large alliance blocks that you need to find a way to crack properly. CK2's enjoyment comes more from you roleplaying and inhabiting your character and stuff like societies rather than just, playing the game to get stronger/paint the map.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:37
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:My top desired change for Stellaris would be to have all warships be basically flagships and it's more focused on how they're outfitted. It'd actually make the ship designer interesting and gives a reason for you to care about each ship. Goodness yes. Designing your fleet and designing each ship type is just too much loving around. This is also something Endless Legend got right (customizing your heroes, while leaving troops basically off-the-rack) and Endless Space 2 got totally wrong.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:44
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The only ship designer in any game should be one where you control how loving cool your ship looks with no actual gameplay effect.
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Apr 16, 2020 07:45
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Make it a slider that you can move from "cool" to "extremely cool".
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Apr 16, 2020 07:56
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Cease to Hope posted:Goodness yes. Designing your fleet and designing each ship type is just too much loving around. This is also something Endless Legend got right (customizing your heroes, while leaving troops basically off-the-rack) and Endless Space 2 got totally wrong. I remember how loving annoying it was in Endless Space 1, where anytime your fleet would engage the enemy, you'd win maybe two battles before their retooled counter fleet found you and you were back to square one, it was horrible. It's the ur example for me why ship designers in games are just trash and don't add anything.
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Apr 16, 2020 08:01
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Eimi posted:Because CK alliances are just based on marriage they are extremely fleeting, while EU can build large alliance blocks that you need to find a way to crack properly. Also sometimes vassals are handled as allies, they might join, they might not. And when you start holy war sometimes half of the world helps your target, sometimes they're alone. And quite often other characters can join wars just because. Sometimes Pope just asks someone to join the war against you if they want to have a nice coronation. Those systems can work nice in a small environment a la Civilization where you think about 6 nations if they attack you. In CK2 there are hundreds of political actors. One day they might decide to end you, the other day they allow you to conquer great empires.
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Apr 16, 2020 08:07
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Stux posted:what are the pieces and how do i interact with them though i guess is what im asking. i want the complexity. i feel like its a lot easier to break the game over your knee, my first game was as a muslim duchy in iberia and i ended up holding all of spain, france, a large part of north africa and most of germany before i felt like there was no point to what i was doing anymore. the character stuff especially felt shallow and maybe that was expectations, because i was expecting it to be the focus from what i had heard, but all my rulers ended up feeling very similar. is this a problem with the game where only a small number of regions/religions have all the events or something? Your mistake was playing a Muslim ruler in Iberia. Muslims suffer from several things: 1. Muslim rulers are pretty powerful, especially in player hands. Internal management is pretty easy in comparison to most other faiths. Women can't inherit, meaning you have no dukes who only produced daughters. So you have no duchesses that enter regular marriages with other dukes, leading to powerful super-dukes that own 1/4th of your realm or something like that. Also, duchy revocation, one of the most powerful tools in managing your realm, is free, meaning it's allowed and doesn't incur tyranny penalties. The AI also loves to land as many of it's children as possible, splitting up their realms even more. If you have trouble with internal management as a Muslim ruler, you're a really bad player, or land most of your dynasty. Muslim rulers also get very powerful CBs, like the invasion casus belli that lets you invade whole kingdoms for just 1000 piety. And you also have easy holy war targets, first in Iberia and then France, of course. And if you keep your decadence low by not landing your dynasty, the combat bonuses let you punch far above your weight. 2. Muslims also have less events than many other faiths. Your societies are a bit lacking. If you don't want to play a (secret) Shi'ite, you can only join the Hermetics or the demon worshipers, same as most other characters. You have neither a monastic order like basically all other non-pagans, nor a warrior lodge like the pagans. So that's a big source of events missing. You have Haji events, but even though there are a lot of them, every ruler goes on one, so that pool of events will eventually exhaust itself. There are some cool events with your multiple wives, but Muslims simply are more boring than most other faiths. And if you don't land your dynasty, you don't even get the decadence events. 3. Which brings me to decadence, the signature mechanic of Muslims, and one generally agreed on by both players and devs to be generally pretty bad (player base) to not being quite good enough (devs). If you don't land your dynasty, it can't acquire a lot of decadence, making your powerful in wars due to your bonuses, depriving you of decadence events, and avoiding the only challenging part of Muslim realm management, avoiding/surviving decadence revolts. And since you probably either didn't land enough of your dynasty, or if you did, you likely didn't play long enough to bring your decadence to dangerous levels, the game felt very easy to you. You also likely played the game before Christians received their massive buffs in Holy Fury. Try facing a HF crusade, they're no jokes. I have to go to work now, but other rulers offer more complex gameplay, and more game pushback. Try playing an Irish Catholic tribal during the viking age if you're looking for a challenge.
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Apr 16, 2020 10:26
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Cease to Hope posted:Goodness yes. Designing your fleet and designing each ship type is just too much loving around. This is also something Endless Legend got right (customizing your heroes, while leaving troops basically off-the-rack) and Endless Space 2 got totally wrong. you could customise your troops just as much in Endless Legend as you can in Endless Space 2, it's just that the AI was so braindead you didn't need to
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Apr 16, 2020 13:05
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Cease to Hope posted:This is also something Endless Legend got right (customizing your heroes, while leaving troops basically off-the-rack) So which multiverse Earth are you from? This is #3744.
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Apr 16, 2020 14:56
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Torrannor posted:You also likely played the game before Christians received their massive buffs in Holy Fury. Try facing a HF crusade, they're no jokes.
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Apr 16, 2020 15:35
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Torrannor posted:Your mistake was playing a Muslim ruler in Iberia. Muslims suffer from several things: i guess that kind of leads into another issue where even in eu4 i find playing the european nations boring outside of like, dithmarschen, and mostly play outside of europe or on the peripheries. my last games were one as kong in africa, dithmarschen achievement run, jianzhou to manchu to qing, and unifying japan as oda. this is part of what made ck2 feel smaller to me, obviously it is in one sense that the map is literally smaller, but that its smaller and seems to have less detail in place for what is there was disappointing. id assumed that given it was a smaller region and had had even more dlc than eu4 there would be the same or a greater level of care in the entire ck2 map. playing as a japanese opm in eu4 had more unique mechanics and events than as a muslim ruler in ck2. i played the game when i got it in the humble thing with all the dlc and i have holy fury apparently. no one was really a threat at any point. i think it didnt help that the ck2 version of aggressive expansion isnt very threatening, so there isnt much to stop you grabbing a lot of land quickly, and then your duchys and eventually kingdoms also expand your borders for you. and that would be fine, i understand the game isnt a map painter, but the small pool of events meant i was seeing the same stuff happening extremely quickly which is what made me end the playthrough.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:03
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i like the ship designer in stellaris but t he main problem is that for most of the game there has been one way of fitting your ships that completely ruins any AI empire, and so you dont get to actually design your ships and engage in scouting enemy tech and fitting your ships to counter them etc.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:05
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Stux posted:i like the ship designer in stellaris but t he main problem is that for most of the game there has been one way of fitting your ships that completely ruins any AI empire, and so you dont get to actually design your ships and engage in scouting enemy tech and fitting your ships to counter them etc. Eh, sort of. There are AI empires like you where it's a fool's errand to try and counter them since their stuff will change regularly, then there are various more static threats like the leviathans, spaceborne aliens, fallen empires and crisis aliens, and it's very much worth fitting your ships specifically to fight them.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:18
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CK more than any other title really benefits from specific mechanics, I guess because of how "personal" it feels. Even the basic feudal christians really could get DLCs- like it shouldn't feel the same being a prince of the Rus vs being welsh in the 1000s vs being an occitain at the height of chivalry.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:19
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Mister Olympus posted:I'm just surprised in general that EU (hell, everything) is that much more popular than CK when CK is like the big standout brilliant game of the paradox library Honestly I think CK2 is probably a better game, but playing as a national level polity rather than a dynasty definitely is more attractive to somebody just coming into the series, and CK2's interface feels really, really dated. I just went back to play it a bit this year and it was tough to figure out what was going on, even though I'd played it when it came out.
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Apr 16, 2020 16:29
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Gort posted:Eh, sort of. There are AI empires like you where it's a fool's errand to try and counter them since their stuff will change regularly, then there are various more static threats like the leviathans, spaceborne aliens, fallen empires and crisis aliens, and it's very much worth fitting your ships specifically to fight them. i havnt played a campaign in about a year and a half now, but it wasnt really an issue with AI empires changing tech. it was more that if you made speed tanked corvette monofleets to warp in and engage enemies, and then seperate fleets of L/XL battleships and PD destroyers to come in after, you could run over basically anything and even against fallen empires youd mainly lose corvettes and keep your expensive ships pretty untouched. the only thing where you would need to change stuff for is the crisis events, and it was mostly to fit your BSes with specific weapons because of how extreme the end game event aliens swing towards a defence tech choice. if thats changed then that would be great because id love to have the ship designer be more core to how you manage your empire!
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Apr 16, 2020 16:55
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It's definitely the potential for emergent narrative being much stronger in CK that gives it that draw for me but maybe too many people really don't want your walking sim in your strategy game
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Apr 16, 2020 17:54
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Stux posted:i havnt played a campaign in about a year and a half now, but it wasnt really an issue with AI empires changing tech. it was more that if you made speed tanked corvette monofleets to warp in and engage enemies, and then seperate fleets of L/XL battleships and PD destroyers to come in after, you could run over basically anything and even against fallen empires youd mainly lose corvettes and keep your expensive ships pretty untouched. the only thing where you would need to change stuff for is the crisis events, and it was mostly to fit your BSes with specific weapons because of how extreme the end game event aliens swing towards a defence tech choice. There were some changes that affected the meta a fair bit, stuff like retreat chance meaning ships with more hull points survive engagements more often (unless you've specifically set "No retreat"), evasion chance getting capped, and so on. What the current meta is now, I'm not sure, but the game's certainly changed a lot in the last 18 months.
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Apr 16, 2020 18:43
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Mister Olympus posted:It's definitely the potential for emergent narrative being much stronger in CK that gives it that draw for me but maybe too many people really don't want your walking sim in your strategy game honestly i love the kind of games that get called walking sims, its one of my favorite genres unironically. if ck2 was actually giving me a unique and emergent narrative i would love it, but i find a better narrative happening in eu4 through country interactions than i do in ck2 with the individual interactions. the stories from eu4 arent as focused on specific people but on countries as a whole, but i can remember almost all of my eu4 games in pretty good detail because of how in depth and full of flavor all the different areas are.
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Apr 16, 2020 19:00
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Port the Aurora ship designer to Stellaris  .
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Apr 16, 2020 19:03
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crusader kings would be better to me if not everywhere played like a reskinned version of feudalism. (leaving aside historical arguments whether or not feudalism even existed) when you get down to it, no matter where you play it all sticks very close to the same systems. even the steppe tribes aren't that different. i'd be interested in ck3 if it was putting more emphasis on accurately representing all the various political systems, but i haven't seen anything in the dev diaries that indicates that
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Apr 16, 2020 21:06
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Davincie posted:crusader kings would be better to me if not everywhere played like a reskinned version of feudalism. (leaving aside historical arguments whether or not feudalism even existed) when you get down to it, no matter where you play it all sticks very close to the same systems. even the steppe tribes aren't that different. i'd be interested in ck3 if it was putting more emphasis on accurately representing all the various political systems, but i haven't seen anything in the dev diaries that indicates that Nomads are nothing but a giant standing army with constant wars to blob wherever you want. That's not feudalism, that's EU4. Also personally I like republics.
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Apr 16, 2020 21:11
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I think the secret defining characteristic of CK2 vs other paradox games is that CK2 is astoundingly forgiving to player mistakes and therefore ends up being much more of a “hang out” game. EUIV is fun but stressful because you hit a point where a bad break or two could leave you in a spiral, ready for all your neighbors to pile on and start looting. Whereas if I lose a big war in CK2, most of the time it just means I have an excuse to play rear end in a top hat vassal for a while.
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Apr 17, 2020 00:07
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punched my v-card at camp posted:I think the secret defining characteristic of CK2 vs other paradox games is that CK2 is astoundingly forgiving to player mistakes and therefore ends up being much more of a “hang out” game. EUIV is fun but stressful because you hit a point where a bad break or two could leave you in a spiral, ready for all your neighbors to pile on and start looting. Whereas if I lose a big war in CK2, most of the time it just means I have an excuse to play rear end in a top hat vassal for a while. This might actually be the reason I'm having the disconnect, I have not remotely invested time into getting as good at paradox games as other games I'd like to be good at, and thus CK2 doesn't always present a trivial/basic loop in that sense
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Apr 17, 2020 00:21
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I wish that in EU4 your loving heir would get married before he takes the throne. Of course the dipshit that takes the throne at age 50 is unmarried and dies two years later, leading to Peasants' War, Pretenders, and Poland and Wallachia to destroy my army in one battle and ruining a hard-fought Byzantium campaign.
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Apr 17, 2020 03:15
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Stux posted:but when you come up against a complex system at first you are usually confused until you work out the intricacies of it. where is the complexity in ck2 and im genuinely asking because i would love another complex grand strat game i can pour hundreds of hours into alongside eu4. once i hit a certain size my vassals basically auto expanded and i get that apparently the idea is you get invested in your specific rulers through the events, but theres so few events they repeat for each ruler and it all begins running together. there seems to be more unique things happening in a game of eu4 than ck2. most people who think ck2 is genuinely complex probably have been playing with mods for a long time you are correct that unmodded ck2 doesn't really do enough to differentiate between the experience of playing as different rulers or to challenge you strategically. i haven't played in years so i have no idea what the top mods are nowadays but generally there is a lot more going on in a modded ck2 run than in the base game.
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Apr 17, 2020 04:48
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But then you try mods and you get Skyrim jokes and 135 decisions in a small decision window. And I'm not talking about Elder Kings mod which wants you to learn how software version control works before it allows you to play.
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Apr 17, 2020 07:01
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Jazerus posted:most people who think ck2 is genuinely complex probably have been playing with mods for a long time If you haven't played in years, you're missing a ton of DLC and so actually don't know what you're talking about (today). The addition of warrior lodges in Holy Fury makes playing a pagan a very different experience vs. playing a non-pagan.
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Apr 17, 2020 08:53
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in that your pagan ruler becomes an overpowered immortal murder machine with 0 effort, whereas only the RNG can do that if you are christian or muslim
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Apr 17, 2020 12:20
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yeah i'm not really seeing how warrior lodges makes for a very different experience. they're a thing you can join that will fire events and sometimes give you missions, none of which are particularly revolutionary.
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Apr 17, 2020 12:40
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Claims can get pretty complex. One of my favorite CK2 memories is playing as the Byzantines and setting my Catholic dynasty member up as the Caliph and then inheriting.
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Apr 17, 2020 22:34
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Does anyone remember the youtube video that looks like its meant to be a track from Victoria 2's music, but the track has a bunch of in-game sound effects like factories being built layered over it? I think it might have been A Day at the Court but I can't find it.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:31
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I just love how they decided to keep northern scandinavia as normal provinces in CK2. Forming the kingdom of Sápmi by conquest and marching tens of thousands sami warriors south against the dážat menace never gets old. No, YOU pay the taxes!
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Apr 18, 2020 01:47
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Finnmark: definitely a place that had warriors ready to conquer their neighbours in 800.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:56
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Torrannor posted:If you haven't played in years, you're missing a ton of DLC and so actually don't know what you're talking about (today). The addition of warrior lodges in Holy Fury makes playing a pagan a very different experience vs. playing a non-pagan. uh i was talking about different rulers in the same dynasty over the course of the game, not rulers of different religions or cultures or whatever. there are definitely differences along those lines, but the game can start to get samey when your character is receiving the same events his dear old dad did, and his father, and... forgive me for assuming that that's still an issue with the base game considering there have been a grand total of 3 DLCs since i stopped playing Jazerus fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 02:42
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