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Aerith living wouldn't be some instant win for Sephiroth. All beating the arbiters for fate really does is give Jenovaroth another chance at victory.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:03
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| # ? May 29, 2024 18:22 |
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Aerith, knowing that stopping meteor will result in her death, realizes she doesn't give a gently caress about the lifestream or the planet, goes back to Midgar under the condition that they exile Hojo and helps them build Neo Midgar.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:06
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all things aside, I'm glad they kept that silly powder blue truck from the original
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Apr 18, 2020 00:11
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Iirc, in the original game, Sephiroth is literally, physically holding Holy back in the Northern crater and it takes the party, plus Aerith’s spirit, to break it through and save everybody, right? Maybe sephiroth’s Gamble is that if Aerith isn’t dead, she’s not part of the lifestream, thus nobody is able to realize that Holy isn’t taking effect until too late.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:11
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Funky Valentine posted:Cloud descends from who the gently caress knows where and stabs Sephiroth. LMAOOOO OH MY GOD a reversal of the Aerith death scene would be amazing!!
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Apr 18, 2020 00:12
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Sephiroth descends from the ceiling to kill Sephiroth, who is mournfully laid to rest in the temple waters by Sephiroth.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:24
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Klisejo posted:all things aside, I'm glad they kept that silly powder blue truck from the original Cloud goes stright for the bitching motorcycle and Tifa, surely knowing high speed pursuit is inevitable, picks the Scooty Puff Jr with a cab that Barret can't even fit in. Actually this had me look up the scene from the original and drat but the years have turned this from super cool into super funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOW5XXaMzOM Caidin fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 00:29
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Flopsy posted:*dry heaves* He’s going to be loving ripped as hell and it’s going to rule
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Apr 18, 2020 00:31
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cloud gets killed and aerith becomes the protagonist for the rest of the game
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Apr 18, 2020 00:33
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Cnidaria posted:cloud gets killed and aerith becomes the protagonist for the rest of the game
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Apr 18, 2020 00:35
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Cnidaria posted:cloud gets killed and aerith becomes the protagonist for the rest of the game Bladed Staff but it's a staff and the Buster Sword taped together
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Apr 18, 2020 00:35
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While the meta-texual elements of the whispers have merit I'd like to examine the textual things they do. As far as I can tell, the Chocobo Sam route is the 'canon' crossdressing route for FF7, but they do not interfere if you fail in convincing him and have to perform a different, non-canon route. I don't remember if they interfere with Jessie's Midnight Run (which is different from the initial game, where after initially getting upset at the extent of the explosion decides to make an even bigger one next go round to impress Cloud), but they don't interfere with Wedge's initial survival or our attempt to find him, choosing instead to off him after he's served his narrative purpose for the new narrative of the game. The Sephiroth we fight after defeated dissipates into whispers, implying that at least some of their functionality has been subverted and they are being manipulated by Sephiroth. The fact that Sephiroth can hand out seven seconds like a carnival prize also implies he has his hand on the wheel of fate. Most importantly, they attempt to bar you from leaving Midgar, something definitely against the canon of Final Fantasy VII. I think this is because while the whispers do have a meta-textual commentary attached to them, they have a different thematic purpose: they are a despotic system you can punch. They limit freedom and set you on a path of their choosing. Its no coincidence that at first you cannot see them, then you cannot hurt them, then its really hard to hurt the important ones directly, and by the end you can actively overthrow the lot of them. In many ways, the whispers are the emblematic of the plate system - yeah it can save you from trouble aimed at a class other than your own - but it keeps you from the privileges the people above you have. Barret gets to live, but President Shinra got to be his own man and to run the world. The slums are unaffected by the bombings, but can't stop a plate from being dropped on them whenever the ruling class so chooses. Even their attempts at freedom are just geopolitics of different ruling classes playing out: while Barret vehemently disagrees that Avalanche is financed by Wutai, Jessie and Biggs look shamefaced and guilty at the suggestion, likely because they know its true. Its no coincidence that access to the freedom of the wider world beyond the plate system and the defeat of the whispers came at the same time. The final line of the game is Aerith lamenting about her new found freedom of choice by comparing it to false security of the plate system. I can't help notice now that I'm not 12 is that the plate system is pretty much "the pyramid of the class system" given as literal a form as it can be given in a fantasy world without them beating you over the head with it. Part of how despotic systems like Shrinra's corporate hellworld replicate is by scaring people with the unknowns of freedom, so the game gives us a way to beat Shinra/Sephiroths despotic ideologies and accept the unknown without having to defeat Shinra/Sephiroth right now because they have to make more games after this.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:36
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Zack is going to follow the party all the way to the Temple of Ancients on a canoe he carves by hand and then he's going to walk up behind Aerith to surprise her right as Sephiroth drops from the ceiling.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:38
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Zack is going to follow the party all the way to the Temple of Ancients on a canoe he carves by hand and then he's going to walk up behind Aerith to surprise her right as Sephiroth drops from the ceiling. lol He needs to get seven seconds into an extremely John Belushi "Aerith baby! I missed ya honey!" as this happens
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Apr 18, 2020 00:39
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Zack is going to follow the party all the way to the Temple of Ancients on a canoe he carves by hand and then he's going to walk up behind Aerith to surprise her right as Sephiroth drops from the ceiling. that didn't happen at the Temple, it happened at the Forgotten City, you fool. you utter buffoon.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:48
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:He’s going to be loving ripped as hell and it’s going to rule A protruding unwashed ribcage is not abs.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:48
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I have two big hopes for the next games. - fishing ala FF15 - Sephiroth apparition on the beach at Costa del Sol. In a budgie smuggler maybe.
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Apr 18, 2020 00:57
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exquisite tea posted:Sephiroth descends from the ceiling to kill Sephiroth, who is mournfully laid to rest in the temple waters by Sephiroth. Hojo, to the party: I'm already half-Sephiroth!
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Apr 18, 2020 00:58
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The Ghost of Ember posted:The fact that Sephiroth can hand out seven seconds like a carnival prize also implies he has his hand on the wheel of fate. You don't know that's what that means, quit pretending you do. Also kinda late, but Harrow mentioned a few pages back Nomura and Nojima being involved in Dirge of Cerberus and they are not. Nomura did some character designs and that's their only influence on that game. Dirge of Cerberus was directed by Takayoshi Nakazato who has directed Dirge of Cerberus and... apparently some 1993 DBZ game? And that's it and it was written by Hiroki Chiba, who wrote Dirge of Cerberus and World of Final Fantasy (He also directed WoFF) and yeah. Like... Dirge was basically done by two people who had no experience being directors/writers... And it shows.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:00
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A Sometimes Food posted:I have two big hopes for the next games. I think my only hope is Red in a sailor suit.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:02
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Onmi posted:You don't know that's what that means, quit pretending you do. Oh poo poo you're right. I had only glanced over their credits and didn't notice they're only Special Thanks on Dirge of Cerberus. Whoops.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:03
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Caidin posted:Actually this had me look up the scene from the original and drat but the years have turned this from super cool into super funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOW5XXaMzOM
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Apr 18, 2020 01:06
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Funky Valentine posted:Hojo, to the party: I'm already half-Sephiroth! Is it bad I literally preemptively cringed reading this line? My God they dropped the ball so loving hard on that series....
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Apr 18, 2020 01:08
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X_Toad posted:... drat. I had forgotten how stupid big Barret is in the cutscenes. Seriously, he feels bigger than the car! He's too big to drive it for sure.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:14
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Flopsy posted:Is it bad I literally preemptively cringed reading this line? but that's a reference to one of the best lines of that series 
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Apr 18, 2020 01:32
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Lessail posted:but that's a reference to one of the best lines of that series It's maybe the best line in any Square game. Perhaps beaten out by "Whatever it is you're talking about, I don't care."
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Apr 18, 2020 01:33
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Flopsy posted:Is it bad I literally preemptively cringed reading this line? if by dropped the ball you mean turned the crazy anime poo poo up to 11 in the best way
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Apr 18, 2020 01:33
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Lessail posted:but that's a reference to one of the best lines of that series Define "best" morallyobjected posted:if by dropped the ball you mean turned the crazy anime poo poo up to 11 in the best way I just lowered my head and groaned when he said that. Sorry if I'm coming off as all over place liking the ending here but not caring for Kingdom hearts....but at that point it had just gotten so loving stupid. I just wanted some sweet disney/Final fantasy villain team ups. Not....Xenonort goes Bananas also everyone and everything is getting norted. Why? gently caress YOU that's why.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:38
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Given that even the second game will come out well into the next gen life cycle, I wonder if there will be significant visual changes by the time we hit the third game. I figure the second one will probably be cross platform, but by the third they might not bother. If we end up with more than three, who knows what the hardware situation will be like by then.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:38
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Flopsy posted:I just wanted some sweet disney/Final fantasy villain team ups. Sounds significantly lamer than The Madness of Leonard Nimoy/Rutger Hauer/Christopher Lloyd.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:39
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morallyobjected posted:that didn't happen at the Temple, it happened at the Forgotten City, you fool. you utter buffoon. gently caress!
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Apr 18, 2020 01:41
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:gently caress! This post segues beautifully with your avatar. Just thought I'd mention it.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:45
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Flopsy posted:Define "best" I mean, by game 6 of KH you gotta have known how it tends to go.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:46
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I mean, by game 6 of KH you gotta have known how it tends to go. Yeah...yeah I did  I kept my hopes up for way too long.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:47
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Flopsy posted:Define "best" No, KH is good.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:48
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:No, KH is good. Shine on you crazy diamond. Trying to follow that plot feels like trying interpret fever dreams. Vaguely frightening and endlessly confusing.
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Apr 18, 2020 01:53
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The Ghost of Ember posted:While the meta-texual elements of the whispers have merit I'd like to examine the textual things they do. As far as I can tell, the Chocobo Sam route is the 'canon' crossdressing route for FF7, but they do not interfere if you fail in convincing him and have to perform a different, non-canon route. I don't remember if they interfere with Jessie's Midnight Run (which is different from the initial game, where after initially getting upset at the extent of the explosion decides to make an even bigger one next go round to impress Cloud), but they don't interfere with Wedge's initial survival or our attempt to find him, choosing instead to off him after he's served his narrative purpose for the new narrative of the game. The Sephiroth we fight after defeated dissipates into whispers, implying that at least some of their functionality has been subverted and they are being manipulated by Sephiroth. The fact that Sephiroth can hand out seven seconds like a carnival prize also implies he has his hand on the wheel of fate. Most importantly, they attempt to bar you from leaving Midgar, something definitely against the canon of Final Fantasy VII. Consider that in fact the whole of both Sector 7 and Sector 5's expanded sidequest suite, in addition to the sun-lamps and Jessie and the Bandit, are not in the original game, and that none of those events have any explicit interference from the Whispers and it provides some context. Tifa doesn't get you an apartment so much as you come back, do a tutorial, and more or less immediately depart on the next bombing mission, for example, in the OG FF7, so why doesn't Destiny show up to move you along? FF7R does an interesting thing both in the meta- and traditional narrative sense, in that it is sometimes difficult to tell exactly what is "supposed" to be there. Some of what we do in FF7R may have been added less as a change to the original's overall thrust, and more as a "we actually would have included it had the technology/manpower/budget been there at the time," and these events or updates are notably those not messed with by the Whispers despite being obviously different from the canon. They never try to stop you from doing busywork or motorcycle chases or anything of that caliber as long as the endgame is assured to be the same. Diegetically it signifies that the Whispers will not interfere with things that are of little consequence as long as the broad strokes remain intact; metatextually it signifies that some of the changes are not really supposed to be interpreted as "changes," they are the new canon of what FF7 was always supposed to be, if that makes a lick of sense. You could apply this, if you so chose, further to the meta discussion being had about what the Whispers are in terms of function. The stuff that they do not interfere with is stuff that is unlikely to be decried as a significant departure from the original by media and fans, and so there's no pressure there to make sure it stays the same. Wedge's survival (or not) is a good barometer - sometimes they leave him alone because in the text he is unlikely to dramatically affect the path of fate, and in the meta sense fans would likely have not been overly concerned with a change as minor as Wedge not dying provided it didn't mess with the overall structure of the narrative. So sometimes they gently caress with him, and sometimes they do not, almost arbitrarily. Thematically I agree that the Whispers represent a sort of Powers-That-Be that you must oppose in the pursuit of freedom, because as long as they exist the freedom our party is chasing effectively does not. There is a layer of significance here in that freedom is not, inherently, a wholesale good in and of itself; it's what is done with that freedom that matters, and the easy path is to simply accept things as they are or "should" be and be content within that paradigm. My reading of their attempts to stop you on the highway, however, is more that you are driving directly into Sephiroth's path and FF7R's endgame, not that you are trying to depart Midgar. Where before there was a small degree of lenience toward changes - Wedge is alive? Fine, gently caress it. Rude has to drop the plate instead? As long as it still drops. - the more egregious the changes become the more agitated the Whispers behave. They don't start truly freaking the gently caress out (and enveloping the entirety of the Shinra Building) until a cascade of fuckups to canon occur one after another, and then there is a hard course-correct coming they attempt to enact. You guys let Barret die here? Sephiroth is just hanging out in Midgar? JENOVA SHOWED UP? Okay gently caress this Wedge you have to die for real now, foh Sephiroth you're NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE etc. etc. Changing the canon to Wutai having actually been a co-conspirator/benefactor for AVALANCHE would represent another fairly significant departure, though, and could potentially derail Yuffie's (actually decent!) character arc. The whole point is that Wutai is a shell of its former self, a tourist trap to generate gil because they, as the losing side of the war, had no choice but to adopt the culture of the victors to an extent and yield to external influence (yeah, I know, obvious post-WW2 Japan allegory, but it's pretty good for a JRPG aimed at teens in 1997). They're supposed to be a non-factor, a scapegoat for Shinra's failings, and not an actual agent in the geopolitical schema. It even ties in neatly with Rufus' decision to execute AVALANCHE in a public broadcast in Junon despite admitting that he knows they have nothing to do with the meteor or any of that bullshit - they are a casualty of a system that cannot admit it has failed or is wrong.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:01
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Honestly I don't think the plot is even the problem with KH's writing. It's the stilted rear end dialogue and moment to moment writing that brings it down for me. I'm not sure if it's Disney lawyers breathing down their necks, it's just got Square's shittiest writers or if it's a localisation issue; or some combo of the three but it just feels so trite and joyless. Also the gameplay is way too floaty or something. A Sometimes Food fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 18, 2020 |
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Apr 18, 2020 02:04
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If you want to go into full crazy town, just do a KH-esque crossover except it’s FF and Twin Peaks.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:08
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oof, i'm just getting through Shinra HQ and it's amazing how fast this game went from fantastic to giving me buyer's remorse. i'm straight up tuning out the dialogue half the time.
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Apr 18, 2020 02:16
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