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man nurse posted:I do think it's funny that they blew their wad and were like "Well, Sephiroth has to be the final boss, right?" Like has already been said, the actual Sephiroth Cloud fights beats him. Pretty much all they have to say next game is "you might have thought we fought Sephiroth but that's nothing compared to the real deal" during the Kalm flashback and we're good to go. I think I'll write an effort post about this game. There's definitely some sloppiness in the ending but drat it's good.
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Apr 19, 2020 22:37
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morallyobjected posted:things like this and the song he sings when you sidetrack to get the Chocobo summon are why I love him The part with the blowing fans where you first see that materia is great too: "I feel no fear ...yeah, no fear ...no fear ...no fear—little fear!"
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Apr 19, 2020 22:44
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:He’s going to be loving ripped as hell and it’s going to rule Hojo definitely injected JENOVA cells right into his dick.
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Apr 20, 2020 00:00
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Hojo definitely injected JENOVA cells right into his dick. 
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Apr 20, 2020 00:24
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I love Barret. That's really all I've got.
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Apr 20, 2020 00:31
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Ms Adequate posted:I love Barret. That's really all I've got. Frankly that's all you need.
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Apr 20, 2020 01:37
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Hard Mode final whisper fight is a dick. The trio are constantly in your face and immediately swap agro if you tag out, and if you die at any point, you're back to the freeway. Megaflare took out the two people I had with Revives, despite an All-Manawall, so I just kinda had to flail until the trio killed me. Edit: There, a bit more defensive prep beforehand to go in with some more hp cinched it. ACES CURE PLANES fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 02:07
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FF7R has cemented itself as probably my favorite game of this console generation. I need intervention. Somebody convince me to play Animal Crossing and RE3make again, because I'm now probably hopelessly behind in Resistance and my island has descended into Lord of the Flies madness. Currently I am paralyzed by indecision, thread, and I need your input. I have been firmly Team Tifa since 1997, and nothing has ever come up to dissuade me from that opinion, including all of the Compilation materials and retrospectives on the original as I've gotten older. Aerith isn't even into the real Cloud, I reasoned, she just likes the funhouse mirror Zack who waltzed back into Midgar. And Tifa's the childhood friend! Childhood friend romances are always best. Plus Tifa is cute as gently caress. It's Tifa. Gotta be. But now having played a localization that is comprehensible and with the slight tweaks to the characterization, as I see it, to each of them, I am TORN. Up is down, black is white. I don't know who to pick! It's unlikely that they'll do any kind of decision carryover or save file transfer from game to game, but on the off chance that they do, I don't want to hedge my bets and make a save where I choose each of them. I need to commit! And I don't know who to pick! Please outline your arguments for why Cloud should be with Tifa or Aerith below. Sincerely, me
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Apr 20, 2020 02:54
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guts and bolts posted:FF7R has cemented itself as probably my favorite game of this console generation. I need intervention. Somebody convince me to play Animal Crossing and RE3make again, because I'm now probably hopelessly behind in Resistance and my island has descended into Lord of the Flies madness. Hollow is a song from Cloud about how much he misses Aerith. That's my whole argument. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op59nu5sIwk
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Apr 20, 2020 02:57
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Spite posted:Aerith has always been the original manic pixie dream girl. I don't know about emotionally fragile but even in the original I think Tifa comes off as a very anxious person. A lot of it through her relationship with Cloud and how she doesn't really talk to him about obvious discrepancies with his history that really bother her. It's something the remake kind of plays up too. One of Cloud's first lines to her is talking about how it's been 5 years since they've seen each other which she obviously finds really weird because from her perspective its been over a decade and also 5 years ago was when their home burned down and as far as she knows he wasn't there for that? When she's giving him the tour she also mentions it's been 5 years since she reached Midgar but quickly changes the subject because she doesn't want to confront the obvious lie he's telling. And I think that sort of anxiety is present with her just in general.
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Apr 20, 2020 02:57
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guts and bolts posted:FF7R has cemented itself as probably my favorite game of this console generation. I need intervention. Somebody convince me to play Animal Crossing and RE3make again, because I'm now probably hopelessly behind in Resistance and my island has descended into Lord of the Flies madness. Whatever happens, you can't fall in love with Aerith. Even if you think you have...it's not real.
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Apr 20, 2020 02:58
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guts and bolts posted:FF7R has cemented itself as probably my favorite game of this console generation. I need intervention. Somebody convince me to play Animal Crossing and RE3make again, because I'm now probably hopelessly behind in Resistance and my island has descended into Lord of the Flies madness. Well, for starters, it was always apparent Aerith loved Cloud for Cloud. She saw some of Zack in him but Cloud is rally nothing like Zack at all. They have glowing eyes and were "in SOLDIER" and...that's it. Their personalities are totally different, especially during Disk 1 when Cloud and Aerith were together. She also always insisted she never had any special feelings for Zack but people like to ignore that for some reason. Anyway, why Cloud and Aerith? Well Cloud's own mother said he needed an older woman to take care of him. Tifa is very co-dependent and is the one who needs to be taken care of. Aerith is also just a much more interesting character and with the possibility she will actually live, that is a huge game changer for the Clerith ship. Cloud and Tifa only became kind of a thing because Aerith died. Also the fortune telling robot cat spy said Cloud and Aerith were perfect for each other. I think that conclusively settles the matter.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:03
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That cat's not even a real fortune teller.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:12
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guts and bolts posted:FF7R has cemented itself as probably my favorite game of this console generation. I need intervention. Somebody convince me to play Animal Crossing and RE3make again, because I'm now probably hopelessly behind in Resistance and my island has descended into Lord of the Flies madness. Who knows where the remake is going, but in the original, it is Cloud and Tifa. Romance with Aeris is part of the delusion, on both of their parts. It's the kind of surrogacy that isn't actually helping. The entire game is about how folks use surrogacy to cope with trauma. Both Aeris and Tifa eventually work to help Cloud discover his true self - Aeris figures this out earlier (or at least admits it to herself), and most of their final interactions are about that. Cloud and Tifa work to complete and heal each other in a positive way by the end, resolving both desires from their youth and the traumas of their adolescence. Their union is an expression of their arcs and the resolution of the narrative's themes. And Tifa is best girl, maybe of any game, so I don't know what to tell you. EDIT: Cait Sith is a compulsive liar and everything he says should be taken with a dump truck of salt.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:16
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guts and bolts posted:FF7R has cemented itself as probably my favorite game of this console generation. I need intervention. Somebody convince me to play Animal Crossing and RE3make again, because I'm now probably hopelessly behind in Resistance and my island has descended into Lord of the Flies madness. Tifa should date Aerith because they're both adorbs and would make each other happy.  Cloud should date Roche because the man clearly adores him and would probably relate to his mental issues being an experiment himself (all SOLDIERS are). And yeah I know you hate him guts but I'm just saying this is what I personally like here. Honestly I like just about everybody except for the heads of the Shinra board of directors sans Reeve and Sephiroth because frankly he scares the poo poo out of me. They did a really good job making him just look horrifying with his lack of blinking and the pale green of his eyes. He looks like a straight up demon creeping on Cloud sometimes... Flopsy fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 03:20
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Onmi posted:Hollow is a song from Cloud about how much he misses Aerith. Mechafunkzilla posted:Whatever happens, you can't fall in love with Aerith. Even if you think you have...it's not real. NikkolasKing posted:Well, for starters, it was always apparent Aerith loved Cloud for Cloud. She saw some of Zack in him but Cloud is rally nothing like Zack at all. They have glowing eyes and were "in SOLDIER" and...that's it. Their personalities are totally different, especially during Disk 1 when Cloud and Aerith were together. She also always insisted she never had any special feelings for Zack but people like to ignore that for some reason. Beefstew posted:Who knows where the remake is going, but in the original, it is Cloud and Tifa. Flopsy posted:Tifa should date Aerith because they're both adorbs and would make each other happy.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:27
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guts and bolts posted:. If you want a serious answer from me here it is: Both of these girls are good beautiful people. What you need to ask yourself is; What suffering are you willing to take on for them here? Because both are also suffering in their own ways and Cloud will have to take that into account as well as his own. Tifa is suffering from the same loss as Cloud about their home town and is too fearful of losing him address his very obvious mental illness issues. Aerith would help him with that, but understand she'll most likely be distant because she's foreseen her own death and may have convinced herself it's necessary to go through with it. Not to mention you may in fact still lose her the way we did in 1997. You need to ask yourself which of these struggles are you willing to take on for them? As it stands they're about equal in good points and they clearly care for each other and want each others happiness as well.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:33
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guts and bolts posted:This post is too anti-Tifa to be accurately counted, but it will be taken into consideration. I wonder what it says about me that I find Tifa's borderline co-dependent attitude, especially in the original FF7, equal turns heartbreaking and adorable. That... that isn't good. Funny thing is, when I first played FFVII back in 2002, I was totally pro-Tifa. I was almost glad when Aerith died because all signs pointed to her and Cloud being together. But then she died and Tifa got promoted to main female character. I can make the same arguments that made Tifa alluring to me back then. Young Cloud having a crush on her and going off to be a SOLDIER man because he wanted to impress her. The fact Tifa's love for him has not wavered one bit over many, many years. How she stands by him even when it looks like he'll be a vegetable forever. I don't know why I became so much more pro-Aerith with age. I still love a lot of the same characters I used to growing up. I still love Elly from Xenogears and she's even more co-dependent than Tifa in a way. Her and Fei are cosmically codependent Maybe it's the tragic element. It's seductive - the person Cloud can't be with is the one you want him with most of all.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:41
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Tifa and Aerith belong with each other and I will be sad if they don't get more scenes and development together in the next few games.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:41
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Pollyanna posted:Tifa and Aerith belong with each other and I will be sad if they don't get more scenes and development together in the next few games. Yes, you get it. Also I'm not against Cloud and Rufus I just think he's better with Tseng. Rufus give off galactic overlord power bottom energy while Cloud's more of a disaster bi.
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Apr 20, 2020 03:45
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I think they had a lot of fun giving Aerith and Tifa scenes with the remake since their relationship wasn't so much a focus in the original game. It's definitely something I expect them to continue exploring, especially as Aerith might well survive and have another 50% of the story to interact with the rest of the cast for. I think characterisation was the remake's strongest attribute so i'm really hoping they keep it up with giving all of the party extra scenes and development. Probably going to be a lot more difficult when party size doubles but I want it anyway! 
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Apr 20, 2020 03:47
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Flopsy posted:If you want a serious answer from me here it is: Both of these girls are good beautiful people. What you need to ask yourself is; What suffering are you willing to take on for them here? Because both are also suffering in their own ways and Cloud will have to take that into account as well as his own. Tifa is suffering from the same loss as Cloud about their home town and is too fearful of losing him address his very obvious mental illness issues. Aerith would help him with that, but understand she'll most likely be distant because she's foreseen her own death and may have convinced herself it's necessary to go through with it. Not to mention you may in fact still lose her the way we did in 1997. You need to ask yourself which of these struggles are you willing to take on for them? As it stands they're about equal in good points and they clearly care for each other and want each others happiness as well. There's something to be said for the self-actualizing undertones of the narrative that Cloud's love interest shouldn't make a difference, and that trying to find external sources of validation is what landed him in his psychosis in the first place, and I buy that to a degree. Having Cloud and Tifa become complete people independent of one another communicates a pretty powerful message, provided the two come out on the other side as actually improved and, crucially, still likable. On the other hand, waifus. But seriously I'm actually a sucker for romance sorta-sub-plots in a lot of my favorite fiction, not going so far as to say I'm into shipping but that I enjoy love story appendices to the sci-fi/fantasy body. Han and Leia hooking up was one of my favorite parts of the original Star Wars trilogy, and the only redeeming part of Final Fantasy VIII at all is that a love story is central to its narrative action. I'm the guy who always chose to save Meryl in Metal Gear Solid. I'm a sap. But with the nu!FF7 on the table and Aerith's death not being a foregone conclusion, I'm actually seriously torn on what I think would make for a better love story dessert to the plot's main course. Tifa is wholly adorable and eminently sympathetic, and I think her feelings for Cloud are probably more than just holding on to a fragment of her lost childhood. Aerith, especially with a localization that makes her dialogue infinitely more palatable (and cuter, to boot) has just gained a lot of traction with the release of FF7R for me, in general. I have my game saved in Chapter 2 before talking to Aerith in the most-likely-vain hope that our choices will have consequences in future installments, hopefully nothing so dire as "WHO DIES INSTEAD???" but I mean, yeah, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited at the possibility that you could influence who Cloud takes a shine to through the sub-series. Just not Roche goddamn Roche
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Apr 20, 2020 03:48
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guts and bolts posted:The real question in my head is about what would be more narratively satisfying. In the original, I couldn't bring myself to pick Aerith as Cloud's love interest because it seemed too pointlessly cruel in addition to the rest of the cruelty the game inflicts on its characters; deciding that his True Love is the dead girl seems like the fast track to winding up as Advent Children Cloud, a joyless, lifeless loser who needs to be actively convinced to give a poo poo about anyone or anything, including his live-in partner/girlfriend/buddy? and their adopted kid. Cloud begins FF7 as prickly but fundamentally likable, and becomes steadily even more sympathetic as the game progresses - seeing his EU depictions has always kinda of bummed me out, because I straight up do not like him. Well think about it like this; Cloud ended up with Tifa in the compilation and he still turned out that way grieving over Aerith. If she dies it's going to wreck his psyche one way or another. But that's the risk you have to take. You have to ask is she worth a possibly doomed love story? Is the time you'll have together going to make the possible loss worth it? Also understand that while Cloud and Tifa definitely have a lot of deep love and loyalty between them she still needs to work up the nerve to address his problems without being afraid of driving him off. Unlike Aerith she's a little more emotionally fragile. You need to carefully weigh each issue and think how it effects you on personal level and then base your choice on that. There's no wrong answers here just what you think is narratively appropriate.  Also Roche is a good rowdy boi and I love him.
Flopsy fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 03:56
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An argument in the main thread had me checking the ending scenes and wondering about something: did they undo the Sector 7 plate falling? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWp8fq0m-sI&t=716s Look at the plates at this timestamp. It looks like Marle and the others are under the Sector 6 plate, which has a pretty distinctive appearance due to being incomplete and having that ragged edge. It seems like when the camera pans up we're looking in the direction of Sector 7 and... there's a plate there?
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Apr 20, 2020 05:16
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Harrow posted:An argument in the main thread had me checking the ending scenes and wondering about something: did they undo the Sector 7 plate falling? Is that the direction of Sector 7? Looks like 5. Why would they be rebuilding the 7th Heaven with a busted Sign in Sector 6 if Sector 7 never fell?
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Apr 20, 2020 05:21
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Harrow posted:An argument in the main thread had me checking the ending scenes and wondering about something: did they undo the Sector 7 plate falling? They're digging through the wreckage of Sector 7, it looks like. The design of the buildings is way more Sector 7-looking than the ones in any of the other Sectors we've been. The incomplete plate they're sitting under seems to be the Sector 7 one, and the only pieces of it that are still there are attached to other support structures. Honestly the real issue is why there isn't as much debris as there should be, but that was a problem earlier too.
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Apr 20, 2020 05:24
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That's the sector 6 plate
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Apr 20, 2020 05:29
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Onmi posted:Is that the direction of Sector 7? Looks like 5. Why would they be rebuilding the 7th Heaven with a busted Sign in Sector 6 if Sector 7 never fell? You're right, that could be the direction of Sector 5, it's hard to tell with a circle I guess. And it would make sense since the next scene is in Sector 5 at the Leaf House. Just Andi Now posted:They're digging through the wreckage of Sector 7, it looks like. The design of the buildings is way more Sector 7-looking than the ones in any of the other Sectors we've been. The incomplete plate they're sitting under seems to be the Sector 7 one, and the only pieces of it that are still there are attached to other support structures. Honestly the real issue is why there isn't as much debris as there should be, but that was a problem earlier too. I think the Sector 7 plate is just completely gone, nothing left. You can see that when you look at it from above in Chapter 15. It looks like they're under the Sector 6 plate in that scene, which is the incomplete plate. There's rubble in Sector 6, too, and that's where all the refugees went in Chapters 13 and 14.
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Apr 20, 2020 05:30
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Onmi posted:Is that the direction of Sector 7? Looks like 5. Why would they be rebuilding the 7th Heaven with a busted Sign in Sector 6 if Sector 7 never fell? Clearly Barret is just expanding his business so he can get more funding for Avalanche! 
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Apr 20, 2020 05:30
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Actually I dunno, the more I look at that scene the more it has to be them looking towards Sector 7. If the edge of the city is to their left, and they're in Sector 6, then Sector 7 is to their north, which is where they're looking. Either that or they changed the Sector numbering order in the remake, or they're in Sector 7 and the Sector 7 plate is actually being rebuilt for some reason.
Harrow fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 05:35
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They are absolutely in Sector 7, and I was so sure about it, I dug up some ingame evidence. This part where the children are running has this van: It's located near Wedge's house:  Note the similar building structure behind it. The kids are running past using the same giggling when it cuts to Marle's group, so both scenes definitely take place in the same Sector, which is Sector 7.
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Apr 20, 2020 05:50
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Nice catch. In that case it looks like the big timeline difference is that the Sector 7 plate is being rebuilt. After it falls it's completely gone, no scaffolding or anything, but in the ending it looks like the Sector 6 plate. Rufus must have listened to Reeve.
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Apr 20, 2020 05:55
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Harrow posted:Nice catch. It would be pretty in-character if Rufus approved the project as soon as he heard his father was against it.
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Apr 20, 2020 05:57
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Anyone else feel like the ambiguity of the ending (whether Zack/Biggs are alive in this timeline or another, whether Jessie is alive at all, whether we crossed dimensions or retconned the current one, and how different things are actually gonna play out) is partially because Square is gauging fan feedback before they decide what direction to take it? I'm gonna be real and say I don't want them to bring back all three of the Avalanche dudes. It just cheapens their really emotional death scenes, and for God's sake, we need to leave at least one of them intact.
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Apr 20, 2020 05:58
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Everything will proceed as normal until the Gold Saucer, where Jessie will turn up playing the princess in her play, and nobody will think this is strange except for a quietly freaking out Cloud.
The Doomhammer fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 06:00
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Cloud pretending everything is fine as usual.
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Apr 20, 2020 06:02
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Beefstew posted:Anyone else feel like the ambiguity of the ending (whether Zack/Biggs are alive in this timeline or another, whether Jessie is alive at all, whether we crossed dimensions or retconned the current one, and how different things are actually gonna play out) is partially because Square is gauging fan feedback before they decide what direction to take it? Depends on the timeline differences. If we go full Chrono Cross, I can see events playing out like this. - Zack survives and returns to Midgar with Cloud, Cloud is in a Mako Poisoning coma, so Zack decides to become a mercenary to provide for him - Zack joins Avalanche for work, because he's more amicable than Cloud, he's placed on the Sector 5 bombing run without any incident - Because Cloud isn't there for Tifa to want to be with, she never takes the step into actively participating in missions - Because Zack is better than Cloud, he doesn't fall to the destroyed Airbuster, never meets the Turks or see Aerith again - Because of that, Aerith isn't captured by the Turks and taken to Shinra Tower. And here's a Branch - Because Tifa goes alone to Corneo, she winds up failing the mission and dying/worse OR Jessie goes on the mission instead of Tifa - Because Zack isn't dumped into a Sewer, he's there to defend the Sector 7 Plate and succeeds in stopping the Turks - Rather that for Aerith, Barret attacks Shinra HQ as a response to the plate fall. Because the parameters of the mission have changed from "Get Aerith out" to "Kill President Shinra" the assault is more bloody and Barret dies - Sephiroth/Jenova stuff still happens, Zack leads presumably Biggs/Wedge/Jessie to go after Sephiroth. At least. If you're going full Chrono Cross, that's what I'd do.
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Apr 20, 2020 06:15
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The other possibility is that there's no second timeline and the one timeline in the game got retconned and is now internally inconsistent. Cloud and friends remember events the way we saw them either because they were ones who changed things or just because they were in the Singularity when the change happened, but now there are signs they happened differently, including Zack being around with a second Buster Sword wondering where Could disappeared to. Our first hint might be the characters noticing that Stamp is suddenly a different breed of dog on a piece of merch they stumble across in part 2 or something.
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Apr 20, 2020 06:21
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I beat this tonight, and I have some real fuckin' mixed feelings about the direction it all went and the justifications for doing so, but mostly I'm really, really curious if anyone who played this with no context for the original FF7 would give a poo poo about any of it? Like, the vast majority of the narrative space in the game is spent establishing the actual characters and Shinra and Midgar and their plot struggles, and then basically all of that gets completely turfed in favor of Plot Ghosts, and they never really explain anything about them in the same way, they're really only emotionally or narratively resonant if you're familiar enough with the original game to know about the things they're portending, so if you don't have that operative knowledge, is the entire point of the game basically just one continuous "wait, what" that just abruptly ends?
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Apr 20, 2020 06:28
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Harrow posted:The other possibility is that there's no second timeline and the one timeline in the game got retconned and is now internally inconsistent. Cloud and friends remember events the way we saw them either because they were ones who changed things or just because they were in the Singularity when the change happened, but now there are signs they happened differently, including Zack being around with a second Buster Sword wondering where Could disappeared to. Our first hint might be the characters noticing that Stamp is suddenly a different breed of dog on a piece of merch they stumble across in part 2 or something. Nothing implies our Characters had the power to change anything though. Like, I can understand if someone commented on being able to make a change. But so far there's no indications of such, and how would Cloud have thought to save Zack when even thinking of Zack causes his brain to immediately start hemorrhaging. He needed fuckin' Sephiroth to snap out of it at the Edge of Creation, which is "7 seconds before the world ends" CarlCX posted:I beat this tonight, and I have some real fuckin' mixed feelings about the direction it all went and the justifications for doing so, but mostly I'm really, really curious if anyone who played this with no context for the original FF7 would give a poo poo about any of it?
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Apr 20, 2020 06:32
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