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PMush Perfect posted:Explain? (This is explicitly a request for a loredump.) House Steiner's thing is assault mechs (and some heavies) but mostly assault mechs. Their idea of a light mech is the Hollander (gauss rifle on legs). However Steiner has things like a functioning economy and industrial base and thus can afford to throw assault mechs at their problems.
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Apr 20, 2020 01:14
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At least until the Wolf Empire kicks their teeth in and the Jade Falcons annex Coventry. Then their industrial base becomes "poo poo. I guess we can still make the Storm Raider?" Edit: To be fair, that still leaves them better off than House Davion. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 01:50
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AtomikKrab posted:House Steiner's thing is assault mechs (and some heavies) but mostly assault mechs. Their idea of a light mech is the Hollander (gauss rifle on legs). However Steiner has things like a functioning economy and industrial base and thus can afford to throw assault mechs at their problems. So not only could they afford to field a "scout lance" of only assault 'mechs, but the reputation of their commanders is such that someone would believe a General capable of thinking it's a great idea.  Also related to the discussion and pretty entertaining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73zK-PjmyKY
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Apr 20, 2020 01:57
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The "Steiner Scout Lance" is definitely a running gag. Is the Dire Wolf still the mech with the highest weapon carrying capabilities, or did they figure out how to shove more gun tonnage in something else? Ya know, aside from the weirder things like tripod superheavies.
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Apr 20, 2020 05:46
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radintorov posted:To add to that, not only they have a functioning economy and industrial base that makes them arguably the richest of the Great Houses at this time, but also Steiner has a reputation for their military leadership not being very competent. They are also space Prussia, so all the fail-sons of the noble families tend to get assault mechs bought for them when they inevitably join the army. I would also recomend the "Tex Talks Battletech" series, there are some very deep dives into Battletech lore as well as short run downs on certain mech models. He did one on the urbie 
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Apr 20, 2020 06:52
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My MW4Mercs scout lance: three Dire Wolves and a Fafnir. I have no idea if that was good, I was 14 and it was awesome to utterly ruin mechs with dual heavy gauss sniping.
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Apr 20, 2020 09:52
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radintorov posted:To add to that, not only they have a functioning economy and industrial base that makes them arguably the richest of the Great Houses at this time, but also Steiner has a reputation for their military leadership not being very competent. The story about how all this came to be is kind of interesting actually. They created the 'Social General' title as a way of rewarding civilians and non-military nobles for their service, similar to how Britain would knight people for scientific discoveries or other things. These high class people would then hobnob with high ranking military officials, who in turn developed rich tastes from their rich friends. Over time, it became expected that a high ranking military officer would be a sophisticated gentleman in high court as well, and they would often spend just as much time learning noble court poo poo as military maneuvers. Then during the reign of one of the weak Steiners, the Social Generals got it into their head two ideas. The first being that they should be able to hand down their Social General title to their kids like any other noble title, and the second being that since the title had the word 'General' in it, that they should be allowed to command common soldiers of the military like real generals. Thus you ended up getting a bunch of noble brats with zero skill leading men into battle, with predictable results. They would eventually get rid of the Social General system, but by then the damage had been done. The higher ranks had been infested with men who either inherited or bought their rank, while actual competent commanders were left leading garrison units because their Third Cousin Twice Removed on his Mother's Side wasn't the famous hair stylist responsible for the faaaaabulous trends that the Archon's brother wears to court.
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Apr 20, 2020 10:12
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I assume that the reason for the rewards being cash-biased is because at this point in the game, "here is money" is more reliable than "here's some random bullshit mech to sell," in keeping with "take the money and run." Not only that, but because you can get at most three parts and you need four parts, it's unlikely you'll walk away with a whole mech as salvage. You're probably going to need to shoot down at least two mechs of any given type to get it yourself, and there's not a lot of stuff that you're likely to meet two of in a single missions and is worth actually having.
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Apr 20, 2020 14:44
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That's exactly right. I set our parts total to a reasonable 4, which is a personal handicap to keep me from scoring an early Atlas like I would have if I'd kept the default 3. The odds of us seeing another Atlas soon are pretty low so I can't rely on an early pickup to let me steamroll the game. The higher you set your parts the less valuable salvage is and the more important money becomes (so you can just buy 'Mechs outright). You can set the number of parts needed to salvage a 'Mech to anywhere between 3 and 8, with 3 being the default the game was designed around and eight being extremely difficult. There's an achievement for successfully assembling ten 'Mechs in a campaign where you're set to the maximum 8 parts. I think something like 0.06% of the playerbase has it. I'm going pretty easy in this LP, this isn't a Kerensky run (if it was, we wouldn't be doing any Flashpoints except by accident). I'm aiming to score a Veteran, which is the "you played well and didn't cheese the scoring system" score. Unfortunately, BattleTech's career mode scoring system is deeply and unenjoyably flawed. I'll go into detail about it (and why it sucks) when we actually finish our campaign; but the TLDR is: for everything that's scored reasonably and achievable, there's something else that either requires you to do something insane, gets significantly harder if you have any of the DLC, can be rendered actually impossible by making the wrong faction (Pirates) angry, or can be ruined at the last second by a bad event. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 15:21
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Can you buy parts? Could we luck into that fourth Atlas part in the black market, say? Also you've mentioned putting mechs into "storage". Is there some sort of maintenance cost involved in keeping a mech active and ready to be selected for a mission?
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Apr 20, 2020 15:37
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Loxbourne posted:Can you buy parts? Could we luck into that fourth Atlas part in the black market, say? Yes you can buy mech parts at stores or the black market if you have the money and its available. Every mech you have in the mechbay thats ready to use costs money in maintenance. If you look at the monthly balance sheet there are entries for the active mechs. A fully upgraded Argus gives you 18 bays for mechs and you are paying a charge for each one of those that is filled. Putting them into storage strips them of all weapons armour and equipment and mothballs them at no monthly cost. The drawback is that if you want to bring it out it costs time (and maybe money) to refit the mech before you can use it.
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Apr 20, 2020 15:42
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Loxbourne posted:Can you buy parts? Could we luck into that fourth Atlas part in the black market, say? You can buy parts, so we could buy an Atlas if we bump into the parts for it. I probably won't be because there are better assault 'Mechs to spend money on and we will see the Atlas again eventually, but I have been not-so-secretly buying parts for the best 'Mech in the game whenever I run across them. Every active 'Mech costs us 54k (or so) c-bills a month regardless of weight class. 'Mechs in storage are mothballed (they're basically stripped down to the skeleton) and don't cost anything monthly but require a day and some pocket change for the technicians to bring out and power up before you can start slapping weapons and armor back into them. You can store an unlimited number of 'Mechs, that was one of the reasons the Argo is so huge. It'd feel unnatural to cram 300 mothballed 'Mechs into a Union-class designed to carry 12 or an Overlord designed to carry a maximum of 36. The Argo's ten times the mass of the Overlord (97,000 tons vs. 9,700 tons ) and only 3,000 tons lighter than the Behemoth-class, the largest DropShip in regular use. With two Leopards on its docking collars the Argo beats the Behemoth by 400 tons.The Argo masses more than the smallest JumpShip capable of transporting DropShips! The Scout-class is only 90,000 tons and can't even transport an Argo because it's only got one docking collar. As a random aside, the JumpShip we see in game is probably the (500 year old) Liberty-class, it's notable for having two Grav decks and four docking collars. The JumpShips that replaced it, the Merchant, Invader, and Star Lord classes, have 2, 3, and 6 docking collars respectively. The Merchant-class is the most common JumpShip in the Inner Sphere now and... it can't transport an Argo either since one of its docking collars is dorsal and the other is ventral; and the Argo needs two side-by-side collars to dock. It's a good thing all the JumpShips in the periphery are ancient pieces of poo poo or it probably would've been stuck in the system it was salvaged in! 
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Apr 20, 2020 16:48
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I love the game’s hand wave about why you can’t send more than one lance. “Your giant hyper advanced probably LosTech ship has a single shuttle bay and it’s tiny and lovely.” That’s not me being sarcastic, little things like that plus it being unreasonably huge make it clear that the Argo had no chance of being more than a historical novelty, even for someone like me who only barely understands the lore. “Why do we have the only one of these and what are with all these weird limitations?” “You found half a working Gustav buried in a warehouse somewhere and your client was the only motherfucker dumb or desperate enough to dig it back up.”
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Apr 20, 2020 18:14
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A Merc company is probably the single edge case where the Argo is worth the trouble.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:16
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Leopards are full-on DropShips in their own right, but operating a Leopard by itself is a losing prospect. They can't carry enough cargo to offset their own maintenance costs so most Leopards are own by governments who use them to ship single-lance raiding forces around or for emergency troop extractions and the like. Any Leopard you see in the periphery is offsetting its maintenance costs by just not doing maintenance at all (and praying the Mechbay hydraulics don't blast the doors off in deep space and open the ship up to hard vacuum). There's a reason one of the in-game events is an SOS call that has a 50/50 chance of the ship you try to save just exploding before you get there.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:21
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It's like owning a tank for running pizza deliveries and wondering why you can't pay for gas.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:32
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El Spamo posted:It's like owning a tank for running pizza deliveries and wondering why you can't pay for gas.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:50
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The Leopard had amazing marketing. Mercenary groups love them because owning a Leopard lets them do all sorts of tactical deployment shenanigans; but every mercenary company is losing 120k c-bills a month on each Leopard they own unless they're skipping so much routine maintenance that they're in danger of a stray pigeon taking out one of the maneuvering jets. Kinda makes the Argo's... $196,750 c-bills/month seem reasonable when you consider the Argo is more than 51 times the Leopard's mass and has a swimming pool Edit: Late-era 'Mechs like the Jackalope were designed to make the Leopard more cost-effective. The Jackalope can fold up its legs up and you can cram four of them into a single 'Mechbay so long as you don't mind using a crane to get them back out again. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 18:59
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Yyyyyep, reinstalling this game. Only ever played Campaign, any basic tips for Career mode?
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Apr 20, 2020 19:36
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PMush Perfect posted:That's just bad marketing. You can absolutely believe that I'd pay extra to have my pizza delivered via a loving T-34.
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Apr 20, 2020 20:25
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This joke was probably not worth the effort!
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Apr 20, 2020 21:04
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PoptartsNinja posted:This joke was probably not worth the effort! I disagree.
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Apr 20, 2020 21:08
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I disagree. Hm. Start is two Enforcer 4Rs, two Commando 2Ds, and an Urbie R60. We're gonna be doing some damage.  I hope.
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Apr 20, 2020 21:16
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If you have Heavy Metal remember to wait 1 day for the prize box.
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Apr 20, 2020 22:48
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Been playing along with the LP, and the main thing I notice (besides the fact that I'm ahead of PTN on days spent and behind on... everything) is that I have no idea which Mechs are worth trying to take out for parts. Is there some kind of tier list floating around?
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Apr 20, 2020 23:10
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I want a 'mech-sized pizza. After a month in lockdown I could probably eat something meant for a 35-tonner.
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Apr 20, 2020 23:10
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First month trip report: 
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Apr 20, 2020 23:12
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PoptartsNinja posted:Leopards are full-on DropShips in their own right, but operating a Leopard by itself is a losing prospect. They can't carry enough cargo to offset their own maintenance costs so most Leopards are own by governments who use them to ship single-lance raiding forces around or for emergency troop extractions and the like. What would you say is the smalled dropship that -can- self sustain in terms of operating costs to cargo ratio?
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Apr 20, 2020 23:35
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GrabbinPeels posted:Been playing along with the LP, and the main thing I notice (besides the fact that I'm ahead of PTN on days spent and behind on... everything) is that I have no idea which Mechs are worth trying to take out for parts. Is there some kind of tier list floating around? It's mostly weight class shenanigans because of how engine tonnage is incorporated into the game. The other thing to keep in mind is that if you're playing with default salvage and you don't see a 'good' mech to salvage, you can always go for the heaviest mech salvage on the field to sell for more money. For Lights, you want Firestarters and Jenners. Urbie's and Panther's are ok in the early game where they can seriously damage/oneshot enemy mechs but they stop being good when you're facing fully armored medium's. Poptart's has shown how a Firestarter can solo an Atlas without taking a single hit and while a Jenner can't put out the same amount of firepower, it's pretty much exactly as nimble and can be a nice target to soak 5% chance shots with. For Medium's the 50 and 55 tonner's are all usable. At 50 tons there's the Centurion and the AC20 Hunchback as standouts (DLC-wise Crab is pretty ok too,) while for 55 tonners you've got the Griffin and the Wolverine. At Heavies, you want the 70 & 75 tonners. That's where your Marauders(dlc), Warhammers(dlc), Black Knights, Archers(dlc) and Grasshoppers hang out and they're all good mechs. Of the 60 tonners the Rifleman(dlc) is the best one. At 65 you have Thunderbolts. I haven't seen enough assaults to comment about them, plus neither has Poptarts in this LP. Also most of the Tier Lists I looked up didn't include DLC mechs in them. EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 00:37
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TheParadigm posted:What would you say is the smalled dropship that -can- self sustain in terms of operating costs to cargo ratio? The Danais and Buccaneer are the two smallest civilian cargo haulers, at 3,200 tons and 3,500 tons respectively, so I'd start there. The Danais has the smaller cargo bay at 1,700 tons; while the Buccaneer has a 2,300 ton bay (which is enough tonnage to transport every individual component of a Leopard with tonnage to spare). The Buccaneer is the only aerodyne (plane-shaped) civilian cargo hauler at all and is popular because it's easy to fly but has notably lovely living quarters for the crew. At 3,600 tons the Union-class is the first military DropShip that might be a cost-effective cargo hauler; but because it's a militarized ship it's spending a lot of tonnage on armor, back-up generators, and armament. The stripped down cargo hauler version of the Union only has a 1,500 ton bay; while the 'Mech carrier's cargo capacity is 74.5 tons, not counting the 12 'Mechs and two Aerospace Fighters and anything else the MechTechs manage to cram into the Mechbay. Most civilian cargo haulers range from 10,000-20,000 tons. The Mammoth-class is the largest DropShip that can actually function as a DropShip (i.e. land on a planet), it's a 52,000 ton monster with a 40,000 ton cargo capacity. The Argo has enough cargo capacity to transport every single component of a Mammoth in its holds with room to spare, it's got a 57,000 ton capacity.
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Apr 21, 2020 01:01
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Man, those are tiny. Modern real-world cargo ships carry upwards of 400,000 tons of cargo
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Apr 21, 2020 01:22
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BattleTech's economy is hosed up, and cargo ships don't fly to space.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:23
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Battletech makes the mistake of giving you enough numbers to conclude it's completely bonkers. Dune doesn't tell you about the size of the known universe, or the spice production per year, so you can't tell. Also, there's little actual movement of basic commodities too often, except for water fleets, and where there's water fleets, there's either comprehensive water recycling or nobody waiting for the water fleets. Well, IIRC.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:28
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Zurai posted:Man, those are tiny. Modern real-world cargo ships carry upwards of 400,000 tons of cargo ...I mean, they might carry 400K down to the bottom of the sea but probably not to a port? e: Ah, you mean bulk carriers. Imagining one of those barges attempting re-entry is good for a laugh or three. The Merry Marauder fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 02:29
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Danais and Buccaneer are the two smallest civilian cargo haulers, Thanks for the answer! Does aerodyne mean what I think it mean - ie its an airplane that can also go to space? What this says to me, I think, is that the biggest difference the Argo 's design had is that it was made with Hindsight Goggles on by the people who made the original numbers. Ie, its a modern tack-on that fits in the right ballpark, but really just highlights how wierd the original numbers sorta were. Are those stats from ingame, or was it like, actually drawn up/statted somewhere? I like the 'going back and adding wierd/wacky/under the radar innovative projects' to the golden era of the timeline, though. IMho, it makes sense (everyone asking 'what can we get away with to get ahead), and there needs to be more things like the Argo.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:11
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TheParadigm posted:Thanks for the answer! Sort of. Think "80s spaceship toy" rather than "futuristic spaceplan". The Leopard is an example.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:39
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The Leopard started life as the Minerva from Crusher Joe, it then evolved into a fat flying clown shoe. Then PGI got their hands on it, and since PGI decided that rounded shapes don't exist they turned it into a brick with wings.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:52
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PoptartsNinja posted:This joke was probably not worth the effort! Order today from Little Caesar Steiner’s. Pizza Pizza! Whatever you do, do not order pizza from clanners. No matter how fast the delivery is, the pizza is always cold.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:43
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Narsham posted:Order today from Little Caesar Steiner’s. Pizza Pizza! That's because when you order a pizza from clanners, they make ten of them and then put them into a battle royale, with the winner/survivor being the one you get. Plus, they are always trying to bid down to the lowest number of acceptable toppings. Honestly, Little Caesar's is better.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:50
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Suddenly, clan PoptartsNinja posted:At 3,600 tons the Union-class is the first military DropShip that might be a cost-effective cargo hauler; but because it's a militarized ship it's spending a lot of tonnage on armor, back-up generators, and armament. The stripped down cargo hauler version of the Union only has a 1,500 ton bay; while the 'Mech carrier's cargo capacity is 74.5 tons, not counting the 12 'Mechs and two Aerospace Fighters and anything else the MechTechs manage to cram into the Mechbay. Also, I'm just envisioning a military surplus/demilitarized Union set up as a sort of... car ferry/transport truck or a flying show room. Fly around planets and ask who wants to buy an TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 04:59
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