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lol at that elderly suicide stat, gonna be a lot more of that
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Apr 20, 2020 18:21
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Algund Eenboom posted:That's a good joke, but it's still very funny that you stormed off in a huff to make your own dsa anarchist offsite and came crawling back after ten weeks ok do you want to talk about it forever or something?
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Apr 20, 2020 18:23
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https://twitter.com/Tor_H/status/1252138758083801091
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Apr 20, 2020 18:26
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Let's relitigate Trotsky. Was he good? Was he bad? Let's find out!
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Apr 20, 2020 18:28
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he was a stupid dumb baby and stalin should have let him stew in mexico and slowly be forgotten
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Apr 20, 2020 18:30
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Trotsky. T. He was a man. T-Man
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Apr 20, 2020 18:31
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he was right about socialism in one country being a stupid dead end 
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Apr 20, 2020 18:31
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Jon Joe posted:Let's relitigate Trotsky. I am actually interested in a real answer to this, because some of what (I understand) Trotsky to have said seems to make sense, to me, but also so many Trotskyists seem to be raving lunatics. A land of contrasts, etc.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:33
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smarxist posted:ok do you want to talk about it forever or something? Yes
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Apr 20, 2020 18:33
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you can pm me or something so we don't poo poo up the thread 
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Apr 20, 2020 18:34
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Lightning Knight posted:I am actually interested in a real answer to this, because some of what (I understand) Trotsky to have said seems to make sense, to me, but also so many Trotskyists seem to be raving lunatics. A land of contrasts, etc. I'm a progressive who gets things done - joseph stalin
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Apr 20, 2020 18:38
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Lightning Knight posted:I am actually interested in a real answer to this, because some of what (I understand) Trotsky to have said seems to make sense, to me, but also so many Trotskyists seem to be raving lunatics. A land of contrasts, etc. Trotskyists were a conservative project to discredit Trotsky by having him and his ideas associated with sexpests, and to provide an intellectual pipeline for conservative movements.
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Apr 20, 2020 18:39
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Jon Joe posted:Let's relitigate Trotsky. https://www.theorientaldespot.com/article/antistalinism1 https://www.theorientaldespot.com/article/antistalinism2 (i actually generally recommend these as very cogent anti-imperialist critiques of marx and engels's early writings like communist manifesto and principles of communism; as the writer points out, marx himself was singing a different tune 20 or 30 years later)
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Apr 20, 2020 19:44
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Jon Joe posted:Let's relitigate Trotsky. he was one hell of a poster
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Apr 20, 2020 19:50
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i think its a lot more useful to look at organizations and movements concretely in terms of what theyre doing and what their politics are than worrying about whether anarchism or stalinism or trotskyism or whatever is good or bad. red guards and freedom road are both described as maoists by themselves and others but dont think youll find too many folks talking about them in the same breath in terms of their politics and what they do. socialist alternative is a trotskyist party and so is the socialist equality party but again not gonna find many similarities in their approach or politics. start organizing and youll find that a lot of these historical and theoretical questions are kind of pointless to focus on in terms of how they will help organize workers and the ones that are meaningful and do matter start to make a lot more sense when you have real experience to draw from and contextualize when youre reading history or political theory
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Apr 20, 2020 19:51
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Homeless Friend posted:lol at the weird fyad failure hanger ons that are taking on cspam culture pervadin these fine forums tho, that is funny rear end poo poo i don't understand why you'd stick around at this point if you were a remotely normal human being
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Apr 20, 2020 19:53
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Homeless Friend posted:Trotsky. T. He was a man. T-Man I know nothing of Trotsky except that he died via ice pick, fought against Stalin, and his followers love newspapers and drama. Also I didn't realize it was an anti-me rule and it rules especially since I've been in the IoSM thread way longer than anyone whining about my posts. :V
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Apr 20, 2020 20:13
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I don't think Trotsky is really that difficult to figure out, he was an important revolutionary in Russia although did a bit of pointless loving around in the pre-revolutionary period and did some good Marxist analysis but based on his involvement in Kronstadt and subsequent banishment from the USSR he found himself utterly compromised historically, politically and ideologically and so began producing wronger and wronger analysis of the world and material circumstances which coincided with him starting Trotskyist groups. Read his early work, ignore the later stuff and treat groups which lionise him with a critical eye (although you should treat all groups with a critical eye so...)
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Apr 20, 2020 20:26
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Mr. Lobe posted:he was one hell of a poster
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Apr 20, 2020 20:27
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https://twitter.com/traybridgewater/status/1252246604700155904?s=21
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Apr 20, 2020 20:30
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hey everyone! the rate of profits are falling!!!
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Apr 20, 2020 20:32
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namesake posted:I don't think Trotsky is really that difficult to figure out, Mr. Lobe posted:he was one hell of a poster
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Apr 20, 2020 20:34
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The only good thing the SU ever did
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Apr 20, 2020 20:34
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https://twitter.com/NeeedlesEye/status/1252322625969324032
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Apr 20, 2020 20:50
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trotsky was always a hot air opportunist and the old bolsheviks and joey steel sussed it out immediately. peace
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Apr 20, 2020 23:06
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Apr 21, 2020 00:10
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Lol
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Apr 21, 2020 00:12
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lmao you loving idiot
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Apr 21, 2020 00:59
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T-man posted:The only good thing the SU ever did killing Nazis was pretty good
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Apr 21, 2020 01:25
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Atrocious Joe posted:killing Nazis was pretty good Yeah but did they kill Hitler? Nope that was our friend the austrians. #ThankYouAustria
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Apr 21, 2020 02:24
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Hang in there bro ✊ https://twitter.com/passantino/status/1252409726337310726?s=21
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Apr 21, 2020 02:38
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my beautiful boy!!
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Apr 21, 2020 02:40
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as far as i know kim jong un has never called for the removal of assad. he will be fine
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Apr 21, 2020 03:09
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Apr 21, 2020 03:14
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i feel like he's not even getting the point of the bakunin line lol
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Apr 21, 2020 03:33
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what was the bakunin line
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Apr 21, 2020 03:41
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quote:Does it follow that I reject all authority? Far from me such a thought. In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions, and choose that which seems to me the soundest. But I recognize no infallible authority, even in special questions; consequently, whatever respect I may have for the honesty and the sincerity of such or such an individual, I have no absolute faith in any person. Such a faith would be fatal to my reason, to my liberty, and even to the success of my undertakings; it would immediately transform me into a stupid slave, an instrument of the will and interests of others. of all the potential left criticism of early Bolshevik rule that guy referenced this idealist quote this feels like a speech given by an anti-vaxxer edit: if this is the wrong Bakunin quote tell me. I haven't read much of him so I grabbed the first hit off libcom.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:48
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goddamn hes D&D as hell
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Apr 21, 2020 03:54
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Atrocious Joe posted:Does it follow that I reject all authority? Far from me such a thought. In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions, and choose that which seems to me the soundest. But I recognize no infallible authority, even in special questions; consequently, whatever respect I may have for the honesty and the sincerity of such or such an individual, I have no absolute faith in any person. Such a faith would be fatal to my reason, to my liberty, and even to the success of my undertakings; it would immediately transform me into a stupid slave, an instrument of the will and interests of others. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 04:05
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Atrocious Joe posted:of all the potential left criticism of early Bolshevik rule that guy referenced this idealist quote lol i'd just head the first sentence quoted, which i liked as a good one-liner, but it gets way dumber from there
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Apr 21, 2020 04:08
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