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Stealth may be easy but it's a lot of micromanage. When you actually have a lot of units and are going army vs army, the stealth game isn't important and it just becomes a niche use unit in your wars. I wish this game felt more like Mount & Blade where the game has a fully fleshed out way of conquering the world and turning it into your empire. I know you can take over some towns but it just isn't the same as designating a leader and specifically declaring war on and taking over any settlement/faction you want and having them be able to intelligently resist and follow their own goals.
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Apr 13, 2020 21:27
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Cardiovorax posted:Sorry, but I think the stealth balance is hardcoded. I've never seen anything that would let you do that anywhere in the construction set. I suppose you could simply carry around a pair of heavy boots to put on when in bright light, for the stealth malus? I was worried it might be hardcoded, I suspected as much when I couldn't find any mods that would do this. Well, it was worth asking, thanks for responding. Using items for a stealth malus is probably viable, but hugely adds to the micromanagement when the character crosses through a lit area, and I'd have to do it every time since I can't be 100% sure when no enemies are watching. That level of micromanagement is a bit excessive for me. I think I'll try to balance it and keep it simple by using stealth only during the darkest period of nighttime and keep a minimum distance from outside light sources, and when indoors I'll add the extra condition that stealth can only be active when there are no internal lights. This means I can still sneak in ruins, but inhabited buildings in civilized areas will become no-sneak zones. This would have the nice side effect that it would also force me to simulate a sleep cycle for my character (which Kenshi sadly lacks), since I'd probably sleep the stealth character during daytime and use daytime to focus instead on my non-stealth characters. From this, and from reading other player's experiences, I think Kenshi is probably played at it's best with personal rules to create artificial challenge, but it's harder to implement challenge rules when those rules can't be implemented automatically by mods. It's really hard to keep that self-discipline necessary to maintain a challenge run. Zesty posted:Stealth may be easy but it's a lot of micromanage. When you actually have a lot of units and are going army vs army, the stealth game isn't important and it just becomes a niche use unit in your wars. Yeah, this is why I kept my stealth character solo, to maximise stealth success and minimise the significant need for micromanagement. I also never felt that I needed an army because I could knockout everyone with a high chance of success, and if I ever got caught I already had the skills necessary to easily escape. With creatures and robots I would drag them onto hostile patrols (with nests set to x3). In fact, getting put into the police prison was my normal strategy for infiltrating cities during the early game. Most of my death-reload cycles were due to mishandling the UI, or going AFK during travel. It also creates the challenge of very limited carry weight, which does make it interesting when I have to balance loot against stealth malus and run speed. A non-solo character could get around this by keeping companions at a distance and just offloading loot onto them before returning back to loot some more. I agree that the game has a huge hole in it's gameplay when the player can't naturally take over buildings and settlements or to interact diplomatically with factions as a whole. There are mods for that but I'm concerned about compatibility issues. There have been multiple times I have wanted to take over ruins or abandoned buildings as outposts or staging areas (for example, the waystation at the NW of Reaver territory and the empire outpost at the mountaintop in Leviathan Coast). I'm not familiar with the construction set for Kenshi. How compatible are the various mods that allow you to conquer and/or buy more towns and buildings (for example the Conquest! series of mods)? I'm using the Age of Blood and Sand modlist, which is 300 mods and I'm scared of adding more mods that might conflict. I'm also using Reactive World, how compatible is that with world state changes? The construction set also only seems to load one mod at a time. Is there a way to quickly identify conflicts between mutiple mods? Corsec fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Apr 13, 2020 |
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Apr 13, 2020 22:05
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There's so many If/Then functions for how the owner of a settlement works that I'm surprised a mod can play with it without breaking everything. and in my experience, they do.
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Apr 13, 2020 22:23
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From what I can gather, towns can have a fallback state if x or y happens, like, someone being dead and another person being alive, I made a small mod that gives me the tiny settlement if tinfist is alive, However, I'm enjoying the hilarity of ignoring bandits who turn up at my other base, the reprogramming workshop, and stand around threatening me while melting from acid rain. Yesh, I am a tiny bit sadistic.
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Apr 14, 2020 04:21
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staberind posted:
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Apr 14, 2020 06:13
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This is the game where throwing people into acid to melt their arms off so they'll have room for much cooler cyber arms is a valid gameplay strategy.
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Apr 14, 2020 08:32
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Hihohe posted:Its Kenshi, if you want to survive you gotta be, at least, a little sadistic When I was playing a solo run as Beep I would knock out travellers around Mongrel, tie them up on fogmen poles, and then wait around for the princes/soldiers to show up so I could knock them out while they were distracted and steal their heads. Must have taken over a hundred heads this way and made a small fortune with little risk. Dialogue in the game seems to indicate that fogman culinary habits are considered by NPCs to be the worst way to die in Kenshi. So what's the most hosed up thing the player can do in this game? Peeler machines to toughen up your martial arts punching bags? Walling prisoners into acid baths? Force feeding prisoners their own cooked limbs?
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Apr 14, 2020 10:14
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Maybe you're getting a bit too into it.
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Apr 14, 2020 10:24
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Corsec posted:When I was playing a solo run as Beep I would knock out travellers around Mongrel, tie them up on fogmen poles, and then wait around for the princes/soldiers to show up so I could knock them out while they were distracted and steal their heads. Must have taken over a hundred heads this way and made a small fortune with little risk. Peeler is a poor way to toughen your troops up, it doesn't give much XP. Now attaching them to fogmen poles to be slowly eaten alive - that gives huge amounts. Rescue them after each limb loss and patch them up before staking them out again, so they don't bleed to death. By the time they've lost all four limbs they should have 50-60 Toughness, plus now you can attach Skeleton limbs to buff their Strength and Dexterity. Fogmen are an integral part of my supersoldier program.
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Apr 14, 2020 10:31
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Re: Stealth My first character had a lot of stealth due to starting in Rebirth and sneaking around the guards a lot. I actually abandoned that save because it really does make the game way too easy. I could make a circuit through a few towns and outfit an entire squad without paying for any of it. I plowed through research because my one dude could pop into some ruins and just tapdance around the security spider bots without the eye so much as going yellow. It started to feel like having 100 stealth in a Bethesda game, because that's basically what it was. In my experience, stealth in games that work by NPCs just straight-up ignoring the PC will completely break if it's not built entirely around stealth mechanics. Once your "ignore me" number is high enough, the game is essentially already over.
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Apr 14, 2020 19:51
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The Lone Badger posted:Peeler is a poor way to toughen your troops up, it doesn't give much XP. Now attaching them to fogmen poles to be slowly eaten alive - that gives huge amounts. Rescue them after each limb loss and patch them up before staking them out again, so they don't bleed to death. There's a mod, Processor Units, that adds robotic animals that will eat organic prisoners alive. I discovered this when I saw screaming coming from the Shinobi Tower next to my home. The Shinobi would bandage the prisoner's wounds, which prevented bleedout KO and kept the prisoner alive, conscious and screaming for as long as possible. That's the most hosed up thing I've yet seen in Kenshi. The processor units also seem to eat upwards through the list of body parts, so limbs go first. It also seems to eat faster than fogmen, and without the risk of combat. HoboTech posted:Re: Stealth I had the exact same experience after grinding my skills for a few hours in Rebirth and reached the same conclusion. I was also able to safely make the hash run from the swamp into the UC cities without ever being noticed by enemies or guards. I don't want to abandon stealth entirely because it's too useful for escape and evasion when combat isn't an option. After some testing I've settled on allowing myself to use it only when moving at the slowest possible movement speed and also never attempting any form of interactions while stealthed (stealing or assassinations in particular). And no more hash runs.
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Apr 14, 2020 22:27
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Stealth and assassination skills being completely broken enabled one of my favorite build-your-own-narrative-arc moments in Kenshi, because it enabled me to straight-up disappear the entire leadership of the Holy Nation over the course of three nights. No witnesses, no alarms, just an empty bed each morning. It was incredibly satisfying.
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Apr 15, 2020 00:56
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While I never use stealth or assassination to rob shops, I do use it to knock out and rob those pesky sand ninjas in the desert. They probably deserve it.
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Apr 15, 2020 17:50
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Corsec posted:There's a mod, Processor Units, that adds robotic animals that will eat organic prisoners alive. I discovered this when I saw screaming coming from the Shinobi Tower next to my home. The Shinobi would bandage the prisoner's wounds, which prevented bleedout KO and kept the prisoner alive, conscious and screaming for as long as possible. That's the most hosed up thing I've yet seen in Kenshi. The processor units also seem to eat upwards through the list of body parts, so limbs go first. It also seems to eat faster than fogmen, and without the risk of combat. The processor robots are awesome. I'm currently based in The Hub. Due to my many mods the hub is currently a giant gang war between Trade Ninjas, Shinobi Ninjas and the Holy Nation refugees. The ex holy Nation spends most their time healing travelers and each other, while each ninja faction is gradually getting worn down with deaths, being looted and lost limbs. Every so often the Holy Nation attacks and we all band together to fight back. Other times nomads will walk through with their blasted processor bots, which are VORACIOUS. There were plenty of corpses for them to feast on, but they didn't stop. Once the corpses were gone they started to eat the wounded. There was a lot of screaming and sleepless nights. I bought two units out of curiosity, not realizing the had been feeding for awhile. There was... A lot of limbs, human teeth, and red goo in their tanks that I had to clean out. Afterwards I put our dustwiches in there, they carried supplies just fine!
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Apr 15, 2020 21:11
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Where are the acid pools? My toughness is at 89 and these human arms need an upgrade.
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Apr 15, 2020 21:24
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BONGHITZ posted:Where are the acid pools? My toughness is at 89 and these human arms need an upgrade. Deadlands and Stobe's Gamble are more or less centrally located and easy to get to. The Pits is also an option.
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Apr 15, 2020 21:26
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All off-coast water is acid. Just find the nearest ocean.
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Apr 15, 2020 21:27
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Cardiovorax posted:All off-coast water is acid. Just find the nearest ocean. This isn't true. Most ocean water is fine to swim in. The coast of Vain is acid and... don't know where else.
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Apr 15, 2020 22:55
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Plek posted:This isn't true. Most ocean water is fine to swim in. The coast of Vain is acid and... don't know where else.
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Apr 16, 2020 08:38
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The next update in the "trying to make my dog survive Kenshi" saga! After realising that i was surrounded by cannibals to the north, killer robots to the west and religious slavers to the east and south I figured I needed to do some training and figure out what I was going to do and where I was going to go. Being stuck I decided not to risk pushing my way through dangerous territory to the south or east (especially with a robot) in the hopes of finding better and decided to murder some cannibals. I felt a little bad exploiting the game AI since the cannibals seem to immediately know someone is thinking bad thoughts about them and run off without support, but needs must and since the stealth is also janky I figure exploiting the AI is more of a feature than a bug. After picking away at a few fights in drips and drabs and looting the remnants of a huge shrieking bandit vs cannibal battle (I have so many med kits right now) I stumbled across a "village" swarming with cannibals with dozens of people in cages. At this point I realised I was in way over my head and decided to hire another person to give us something of a chance. I ran back to Worlds End and found a hiver called Orsome and obviously had to hire him. He did not live up to his name so I left him training in the Flotsam village whilst I risked the Floodlands again. It's not actually that dangerous in there since the robots are so slow but a bit more looting left me fairly wealthy again, on the way back to Orsome I found another ruin that I tried to explore only to find an exceptionally suspicious trail of goodies leading upstairs. I went into stealth expecting to find an angry robot and instead found a room heaving with garbage cannibals. At least I have a target that I can potentially take in a fight once I got the rest of my crew together and slightly trained, so back to training I go. I might make a few runs during training to see if I can find somebody else to hire as well since Worlds End is slim pickings right now. I also got my rear end handed to me by a herd of goats which was a good reality check so I don't get too carried away and end up getting eaten by the cannibals I'm meant to be using for practice. This game is excellent.
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Apr 16, 2020 20:32
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Cardiovorax posted:Huh, sorry then. I only ever tried to swim in Vain and thought it was a general rule, so I never tried anywhere else. Hey no worries, I'm not trying to call you out on it. There always seems to be new things to learn in Kenshi; I probably wouldn't have thought to bother trying either except I was chased into the sea by a horde of cannibals early on.
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Apr 16, 2020 20:38
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Just a quick bump. Squad is currently up to 6 and reasonably well equipped but still fairly feeble. Strong enough to kill all the cannibals in the suspicious lab though. I blew a lot of money buying a house in World's End and I'm now working towards killing off the cannibal villages and exploring further west. I might keep this as a small squad game and kill off all of the cannibals and do some bounty hunting before I throw a bunch of mods into the game and try another start with some actual base building and stuff, probably the Holy Sword start.
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Apr 19, 2020 16:29
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World's End is a pretty good place to be. You can raid the Holy Nation on one side of the mountain and hide out with the Flotsam Ninjas on the other. Also, slightly to the north-west and north of the Flotsam Ninjas is an abandoned village that sometimes spawns with valuables still in it. I grabbed like 200k worth of goodies there once, all just abandoned and free for the taking. Check it out!
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Apr 19, 2020 16:50
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Cardiovorax posted:World's End is a pretty good place to be. You can raid the Holy Nation on one side of the mountain and hide out with the Flotsam Ninjas on the other. Also, slightly to the north-west and north of the Flotsam Ninjas is an abandoned village that sometimes spawns with valuables still in it. I grabbed like 200k worth of goodies there once, all just abandoned and free for the taking. Check it out!
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Apr 19, 2020 20:49
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Redundant posted:I feel like I went to the ghost town really early on when I had limited carrying abilities so I will check it out to see what I left behind. Then I am going to try and capture one of the cannibal leaders for his 30k bounty. With the help of some goats I fought off a cannibal village for days. We'd fight, I'd strip them, heal up and rest just in time for another horde to come wandering back in and the pattern would repeat. Doesn't look like I can wipe it off the map though.
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Apr 19, 2020 21:02
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Is there a way to rebalance athletics and run speed, or is it all hardcoded? I'm asking because it's very quick to level up, and after an hour or so of travel I can outrun most dangerous enemies. Only Beak Things (apart from a few bosses) can still outrun humanoids, but they usually only chase for short distances. When I can outrun most enemies, it starts to feel like impunity, because I know I can easily escape from encounters as long as I don't overcommit and become surounded. With a high enough run speed, it trivializes travel through dangerous regions, because humanoids can't catch me, and ranged weapons are rare and short-ranged. I'm only at significant risk if I accidentally stumble onto an ambush at close range. Is there a way to control run speed, and to make it equal to the run speed of similarly-levelled enemies? Ideally, I'd only be able to outrun a humanoid enemy after the point at which I'm able to easily defeat them 1 vs 1.
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Apr 20, 2020 16:05
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I think the actual stat interrelationships are hard coded but I bet you could change the movement bonuses for each race or engineer some magic running shoes to put on all the enemies
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Apr 20, 2020 16:20
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It's race related, yeah. Every race has a maximum speed and a minimum speed that can be modded, but I'm not sure how exactly that is affected by athletics. In any case, even setting them all to the same speed would do you fairly little good, because all characters run on the same rules - there is no mechanical difference between PCs and NPCs, so a character of maximum athletics will always outrun a character of minimum athletics at a given base speed. What I could do for you would be to make a mod that lowers the athletics XP rate, however, so you wouldn't get to the upper range of movement speed as quickly. Since NPCs tend to start in a given stat range instead of getting there through practice, this would leave you catchable for longer.
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Apr 20, 2020 17:01
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You're both right. In the CS, race entries have min/max speeds for each subrace (not recorded in mph as in-game does) and these seem to scale exactly with the speed in mph of a character in-game at the 0/100 values of athletics. So it should be easily possible to make a custom patch for the running speed of each subrace. For what I'm aiming for, I'd guess at approx 18/21 mph as a balanced min/max value (currently 16/26 for a greenlander). Realism or verisimilitude or whatever for this isn't going to be a possibility for Kenshi. The gameplay mechanics don't create a reason to have a combat speed that is different from long-range travel speed. Balancing speeds just for combat and fleeing purposes will make travel times less tolerable. Improving travel times will make combat less significant since it can be more easily avoided. I'm still totally tempted to reduce min/max speeds to the 6/10 mph range for humanoids, as insane as that sounds.
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Apr 20, 2020 20:32
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Corsec posted:You're both right. In the CS, race entries have min/max speeds for each subrace (not recorded in mph as in-game does) and these seem to scale exactly with the speed in mph of a character in-game at the 0/100 values of athletics. So it should be easily possible to make a custom patch for the running speed of each subrace. For what I'm aiming for, I'd guess at approx 18/21 mph as a balanced min/max value (currently 16/26 for a greenlander). Little tip: you can mass-replace certain fields in the CS by I think selecting a list of entries (as in, entries in the Race list) and choosing Set Field in the context manu. It is very indiscriminate, but also very quick. Just pick whatever you think would be best and experiment. When it comes to value changes like that, the game is perfectly willing to go with whatever the last loaded mod says it should, so if it breaks things in a way you don't like, turn it back off and everything will be back to normal.
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Apr 20, 2020 20:41
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On fighting BeakThings https://i.imgur.com/6dVvBUP.mp4 Just do it like this
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Apr 20, 2020 22:19
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That is, in fact, exactly how you fight Baka Things.
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Apr 20, 2020 22:26
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have a single guy block+taunt and hold one or two of them in place while the rest of your dudes light them up with crossbows
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Apr 20, 2020 22:30
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You can do it with all melee pretty comfortably if you spread around it.
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Apr 20, 2020 23:20
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The most important thing is to never bunch up.
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Apr 20, 2020 23:33
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Corsec posted:You're both right. In the CS, race entries have min/max speeds for each subrace (not recorded in mph as in-game does) and these seem to scale exactly with the speed in mph of a character in-game at the 0/100 values of athletics. So it should be easily possible to make a custom patch for the running speed of each subrace. For what I'm aiming for, I'd guess at approx 18/21 mph as a balanced min/max value (currently 16/26 for a greenlander). When you make a mistake and something that eats you adds on to the fight is also the day you really start playing Kenshi but you win some and lose some.
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Apr 21, 2020 00:12
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Cardiovorax posted:It might seem that way, but you can. The thing about enemy camps is that they also count squads that are currently patrolling the countryside as active inhabitants, so if you camp a given location long enough, eventually you will catch them all and the spot goes grey. It has long since stopped being worth it so I am going to take the cats from selling garbage swords and all of the free training and move on to the one with a boss in it and see if I can clear that out and get some good stuff.
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Apr 21, 2020 00:27
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zedprime posted:Just think of it like you are running away from free toughness training. The day you look at a fight that you can not win and go "hmm, well, no I better run at them" is the day you really start playing Kenshi. You probably have a point here. I've spent about 200 hours in this game and after my first characters were swiftly murdered I became risk-averse and was trying to avoid exactly the kind of gameplay you're describing. My playstyle now is to take every shortcut to advancement, but then I'm also trying to figure out which shortcuts to stop taking in order to to restore a sense of challenge. In my defense, the game sets up a gruelling levelling system but then gives you many, many opportunities to find and take easier ways to level up. It also doesn't help that I prefer to play solo with about x3 bleeding rate and frequent limb dismemberment so any mistake I make is probably going to kill my character or put them into an unplayable situation and either will result in a reload. I guess I can ease myself into it by restarting with a skeleton, because they can't be eaten, bleed slowly and their limbs are already artificial.
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Apr 21, 2020 01:37
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Redundant posted:This one is being very stubborn, I have killed things there for days (again) and not a lot has changed. With the suspicious lab when I had slaughtered everyone and hovered over it on the map it just said DEAD for everything, with this village I have murdered so many waves of cannibals but the number of people roaming only seems to be going up. I had it whittled down to about 20 or so and the next time I checked it was up at about 80 again. Whilst killing waves I have gotten pop ups saying something like "Cannibals 420 wiped out" but the actual village I am fighting to clear just will not die out. Corsec posted:their limbs are already artificial.
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Apr 21, 2020 07:23
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McSlaughter fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 08:03
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