Sinnlos posted:

I was under the impression that Maya was, at one point, one of the demiurges. Others have belittled Incubus, essentially saying that the throne he claims isn't actually his. Incubus has also stated that whoever the other Gods believe owns Incubus's throne is a washed up old drunk.

ConfusedUs posted:

Which Metallica Album bset matches each Demiurge?


Kill 'Em All: Allison, who will Kill Six Billion Demons!
Ride the Lightning: Mottom, whose palace appears in a burst of lightning!
Master of Puppets: The Grand Dragon, Mammon, uses his wealth to secure his power.
....And Justice for All: Solomon David, of course.
Metallica: Nothing appeals to the masses like Gog-Agog or the black album
Load: Gog-Agog sells out
Reload: Gog-Agog also heard about selling out, and decided to do the same, but was sad that Gog-Agog did it first.
St. Anger: I can think of no better album to represent Incubus, who is simultaneously the worst demiurge and pissed off about it.
Death Magnetic: Jaggonath, dealer of death and destruction!
Hardwired... to Self-Destruct: It's gotta be Jadis, who just wants to die!

VanSandman posted:

Yeah that's all been stated explicitly.
Maya left her key behind when she stopped being a demiurge. It's why she's not still a demiurge.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

When did that come up?

eke out posted:

it wouldn't be fair if Maya was still around because obviously she could cut Salami Dave anytime she wants to, regardless of emissary status. presumably she chooses not to for Reasons, though

if anything, this tournament, where it took two of the strongest angels to take down the person she cut cleanly in half in a single motion last time they met, really puts into perspective how stupidly powerful she is even without a key

eke out posted:

it wouldn't be fair if Maya was still around because obviously she could cut Salami Dave anytime she wants to, regardless of emissary status. presumably she chooses not to for Reasons, though

if anything, this tournament, where it took two of the strongest angels to take down the person she cut cleanly in half in a single motion last time they met, really puts into perspective how stupidly powerful she is even without a key

Joe Slowboat posted:

So unless you're saying Solomon David is only alive by the forbearance of that particular rear end in a top hat, I don't think Maya could just walk over Solomon David.

Begemot posted:

Maya already gave up one empire, why would she want another one?

Tulip posted:

Motherfucker posted:

the other is literally senile and only continues to exist in the form of capital

ConfusedUs posted:

Which Metallica Album bset matches each Demiurge?


Kill 'Em All: Allison, who will Kill Six Billion Demons!
Ride the Lightning: Mottom, whose palace appears in a burst of lightning!
Master of Puppets: The Grand Dragon, Mammon, uses his wealth to secure his power.
....And Justice for All: Solomon David, of course.
Metallica: Nothing appeals to the masses like Gog-Agog or the black album
Load: Gog-Agog sells out
Reload: Gog-Agog also heard about selling out, and decided to do the same, but was sad that Gog-Agog did it first.
St. Anger: I can think of no better album to represent Incubus, who is simultaneously the worst demiurge and pissed off about it.
Death Magnetic: Jaggonath, dealer of death and destruction!
Hardwired... to Self-Destruct: It's gotta be Jadis, who just wants to die!

Oxxidation posted:

after his bank was destroyed mammon literally became so angry that it cured his blindness/alzheimer's

eke out posted:

https://twitter.com/Orbitaldropkick/status/1251896014459539458
alt-text: One drop of blood

Josef bugman posted:

That's fair.

Speaking of, I read recently about Neo-Confucianism and all I can say is holy gently caress, Confucianism may well be weird as heck in some aspects and Legalism may be bad but never really practised, but Neo-Confucianism just seems to be mainlining misogyny in a horrifying manner.

Motherfucker posted:

maybe. Didn't stop him doing literally nothing for ages despite having infinity money though.



The point is that from a 'conflict' perspective not one of the demiurges is as strong as they initially appear. I think incubus is scary to them because he is literally a hungry, feral person. Hes a conqueror and not a 'ruler' like the rest of them, he is like Allison in that regard. Mottom would likely keep her fruit tree very close to the chest around Incubus because unlike all the rest he'd be the most likely to destroy it just to gently caress her over even at the risk of toppling the fragile power structure and causing another mega-war. I think all of the demiurges have some weakness along those lines. Like, you could probably get salami dave to cut his own skin on your behalf if you were somehow able to put all his works at risk. Although much like the bank-dragon that'd also probably send him from 'ruler' to 'conqueror' if you followed through as now he'd have to rebuild his sandcastles from the ground up.

Brought To You By posted:

I'd like to imagine that the 2nd row of kills is all one kick and Solomon just hopped a little over to the side to get the next batch of unlucky victims.

The Lord of Hats posted:

I wonder how many of the warriors who sat down to watch are going to be inspired to pursue the life of a noodle vendor after this.

Tulip posted:

Oh yeah the hardliners got completely loving broke-brained by Wu Zetian.

Shugojin posted:

Don't forget Zoss' role:

The bass on AJfA: loving gone for reasons no one can remember or comprehend

Josef bugman posted:

Why did it go so badly do you think?

I have a soft spot for the T'ang. I really do wish that they'd been more of the groundwork for later things to copy and not the Song.

ConfusedUs posted:

Nah, Zoss is clearly Dave Mustaine. He's still alive and kicking, and he occasionally shows up to prove people wrong about his demise.

ConfusedUs posted:

Nah, Zoss is clearly Dave Mustaine. He's still alive and kicking, and he occasionally shows up to prove people wrong about his demise.

Josef bugman posted:

God I love the Tang. The bit where Taizong basically undoes every Confucian virtue (murders own brother, locks dad up in a home) and then proceeds to rule pretty well is just .

Every bit of them is just flagrantly co-opting stuff. It's just wonderful.

Tulip posted:

Ehhhh

Sorry for the derail but this is something I really love.

"Officially" speaking, Legalism was totally and utterly defeated with the rise of the Han dynasty. And, indeed, many of the principles laid out by Shang Yang and Han Feizi were never used by government again. Like, how the gently caress are you supposed to govern by this

quote:

Deeply despised by the Qin nobility, Yang could not survive Duke Xiao of Qin's death. The next ruler, King Huiwen, ordered the nine familial exterminations against Yang and his family, on the grounds of fomenting rebellion. Yang had previously humiliated the new duke "by causing him to be punished for an offense as though he were an ordinary citizen." According to Zhan Guo Ce, Yang went into hiding and at one point Yang tried to stay at an inn. The innkeeper refused because it was against Yang's laws to admit a guest without proper identification, a law Yang himself had implemented.

Yang was executed by jūliè (車裂, dismemberment by being fastened to five chariots, cattle or horses and being torn to pieces); his whole family was also executed. Despite his death, King Huiwen kept the reforms enacted by Yang. A number of alternate versions of Yang's death have survived. According to Sima Qian in his Records of the Grand Historian, Yang first escaped to Wei. However, he was hated there for his earlier betrayal of Gongzi Ang and was expelled. Yang then fled to his fiefdom, where he raised a rebel army but was killed in battle. After the battle, King Hui of Qin had Yang's corpse torn apart by chariots as a warning to others.

Following the execution of Yang, King Huiwen turned away from the central valley south to conquer Sichuan (Shu and Ba) in what Steven Sage calls a "visionary reorientation of thinking" toward material interests in Qin's bid for universal rule.

Darth Walrus posted:

Hostile V posted:

Debatable, as to date Zoss has not proven himself to be a cocaine-addled bigot with a grudge and the white male rocker lyrical equivalents of upper-middle class "quotes on walls as art".

e: god drat that's a good new thread title.

Josef bugman posted:

God I love the Tang. The bit where Taizong basically undoes every Confucian virtue (murders own brother, locks dad up in a home) and then proceeds to rule pretty well is just .

Every bit of them is just flagrantly co-opting stuff. It's just wonderful.

Tulip posted:

Calling Zoss similar to Dave Mustaine is definitely the meanest thing I've seen somebody say about Zoss so far.

ConfusedUs posted:

I dunno. For both, the best thing they ever did was gently caress off so their successor could do what they couldn't.

Tulip posted:

Records from Wu Zetian's reign are spotty, so it's hard to say a lot with great confidence, but what we do know is that she used a lot of heavy-handed police state techniques and was also quite popular among the peasantry. She had a very good reputation within the Tang dynasty - her reputation really fell off a cliff during the Song dynasty.

As to why her reputation got trashed, the simplest explanation is that she did a lot of very not-Confucian things, but then didn't have the dignity to cause a rebellion or a social collapse (like say Wang Mang). For example, her monetary policy was extremely loose, which she piled into welfare, so both farmers (being debtors) and beggars were better off but for reasons the Confucians don't think work. She also pretty flagrantly sidelined Confucians in favor of Taoists and Buddhists, so there's a big ding there.

There's actually some real comedy in that a couple of nobles tried to rebel at a few points, but because Emperor Wu had a pretty lenient policy about people who stand down from a rebellion and the rebels were basically offering "more power for me, gently caress you" to their peasant levies, they'd muster like, a thousand dudes, and 800 of them would desert inside a month. And of course the Tang standing army is like 500,000 so this whole endeavor was just embarrassing.

Xand_Man posted:

The parallel discussions of metal and ancient Chinese history continue to cement this thread as one of the best in the forums

MonsieurChoc posted:

Sounds like they were mad because she owned too much.

Lemony posted:

I just want to say that I now have a headcannon regarding Meti, where some old guy walks up and starts talking about how when he was young he joined up with some army and was given a copy of her book as a gift. He goes on and on about how it shaped his life and how he's dedicated himself to her teachings. Then he gives her a dope bowl of noodles, chats about his grandkids and goes home to his loving family.

So basically, her favourite student.

Darth Walrus posted: