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So a little more on actual analysis of the game, and speculation for the sequel. I think if Aerith is going to die, it won't be at the City of the Ancients anymore. She'll be executed in Junon by Shinra. Going over again (and again, and again) what Kitase and Nomura have talked about regarding Aerith's death quote:In early planning stages of Final Fantasy VII, Aerith was to be one of only three protagonists; herself, Cloud and Barret. During a phone call to Kitase, it was suggested that at some point in the game, one of the main characters should die, and after much discussion as to whether it should be Barret or Aerith, the producers chose Aerith. Nomura stated in a 2005 Electronic Gaming Monthly interview: "Cloud's the main character, so you can't really kill him. And Barrett... well, that's maybe too obvious." While designing Final Fantasy VII, Nomura was frustrated with the "perennial cliché where the protagonist loves someone very much and so has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love." He found this trope appeared in both films and video games from North America and Japan, and asked "Is it right to set such an example to people?" quote:Kitase concluded: "In the real world things are very different. You just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling but great emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think, 'If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently.' These are the feelings I wanted to arouse in the players with Aerith's death relatively early in the game. Feelings of reality and not Hollywood." quote:According to Nomura, "death should be something sudden and unexpected, and Aerith's death seemed more natural and realistic." He said: "When I reflect on Final Fantasy VII, the fact that fans were so offended by her sudden death probably means that we were successful with her character. If fans had simply accepted her death, that would have meant she wasn't an effective character." And I keep thinking that FF7's always stuck to that with deaths in the game. Even Zack dying isn't a heroic sacrifice to protect Cloud, he was bringing him home, but it's not like he did that thinking he was going to die. Death instead, is often blunt and short, with a kind of cold reality that expresses how pointless it was. People have talked about Aerith "Finding out she needs to die to save the planet, and killing herself" but looking at the comments by Nomura and Kitase, it's clear they view that incredibly negatively, that choosing to die 'heroically' removes the pathos of the death. So, say Aerith survives the temple of the ancients, what can bring about that shocking, gut-wrenching, horrid feeling her death originally did? And in my mind, it's not that Sephiroth gets her, it's not that she dies for the planet, or for the party. It's that Shinra wants to alleviate the public's fears with a good old public execution and they kill her before preparing to kill Tifa and Barret. That's just my thought though, "If you're gonna kill Aerith, but not at City of the Ancients, where do you do it?"
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Apr 21, 2020 02:01
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It's not like Shinra told them they need to get to the pillar and push this button. They knew exactly what they were doing and did it anyways. gently caress em both. Yeah, ultimately it doesn't matter if Reno was handwringing over killing 10,000 people and Rude was all "Killing 10,000 people is my job", end of the day it's *real* hard to reel them back after that poo poo. Particularly Rude
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Apr 21, 2020 02:03
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NikkolasKing posted:Shojo manga is as diverse as any other demographic-based manga. You got Hot Gimmicks but then you also get Fushigi Yuugi. FY had its issues but it's nothing like HG. Tamahome was very warm and loving. Naw man, I agree not all shoujo is the same. Some of it is really good some of it absolutely suuuucks (Hot loving Gimmick). But I think it was the whole "lets pair the childish perky girl with cold brooding dude and omg what an odd couple! Watch as she warms his icy heart with her manic pixie dream girlness!" That has as much appeal to me as a fist full of bloated ticks. Flopsy fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 02:05
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Harrow posted:So how did Rebuild of Evangelion go? It comes up a lot but having never watched it I'm not sure how it compares in subtlety, effectiveness, magnitude of changes, etc. How far from the original does it diverge and does it just present that as the new events or what? Eva fans are pretty split on whether they hate it or not. The changes made to the narrative are not explicitly at the hands of a metafictional time ghost going around preventing change/changing events. It, like FF7R is actually a re-telling instead of a 1:1 remake, and the best comparison I can think of when trying to describe what Rebuild and FF7R are doing is with Zelda. There's always a hookshot and a boomerang and a Link and Zelda and Ganon, and a Triforce, and some real mystical poo poo, but exactly how it proceeds varies game to game. I think Nintendo has come out with, like, a timeline that dictates every Zelda is actually in the same shared universe, but I think that poo poo is stupid and it makes more sense to me personally as a monomyth, this kind of story that people tell and it changes with each telling.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:06
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DeathChicken posted:Yeah, ultimately it doesn't matter if Reno was handwringing over killing 10,000 people and Rude was all "Killing 10,000 people is my job", end of the day it's *real* hard to reel them back after that poo poo. Particularly Rude I kinda thought since in ACC Reno was talking about how does one even atone for almost destroying the world they'd be taking that plot point but directing towards how do you begin to atone for killing a couple thousand people who had nothing to do with avalanche.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:08
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Onmi posted:People have talked about Aerith "Finding out she needs to die to save the planet, and killing herself" but looking at the comments by Nomura and Kitase, it's clear they view that incredibly negatively, that choosing to die 'heroically' removes the pathos of the death. I think that the quoted text is infinitely less interesting than the theory that I've bandied about and that others have touched on, and inarguably would enhance the pathos of the circumstances: what if, because of her foreknowledge, Aerith knew she was supposed to die, and instead somebody else does, somebody who made it in the original game/path of fate? Would she blame herself? Would the party blame her? And not even just with character deaths - every single change that occurs, if it turns out to be a change for the worse on a major scale -- does that responsibility lie at Aerith's feet for encouraging the party to co-opt Sephiroth's plan and kill Destiny? That kind of poo poo is what has me interested in future installments, if that is the direction they take.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:10
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homeless snail posted:Its not done yet, people keep giving Anno money to make non anime movies, and now its been delayed again because of the corona. There are people that are just as pissed off about Rebuild as there are Remake, but Eva fans already went through this 20 years ago with End of Evangelion so its nothing new to them I think the combination of 1.11 and 2.22 are roughly comparable to this. Given that they diverge massively from the original plot right at the end of 2.22.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:10
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Flopsy posted:...uhhh...yes, yes they did actually. Rude gets the order in the helicopter. Reno immediately calls it bullshit afterward and Rude says this is what they've always done. Later on you see both of them feeling sort of sick over it and Tseng tries to give them excuses they can tell themselves to feel better and offers Reno a vacation to boot. They decline both and seem a little repulsed he's actually saying these things as if that makes it better. I feel like they tried to convince themselves this is business as usual and in the aftermath it sunk in no, no it loving wasn't. They knew they were going to drop the plate even before they got up there. They did it anyways. Ya they kinda feel bad later, but that doesn't change the fact they knew what they were doing and killed all those people. Or you know when the computer says "Hey I'm gonna drop this plate now I need to make sure you really want to murder everyone please confirm" and he doesn't even flinch. DeathChicken posted:Yeah, ultimately it doesn't matter if Reno was handwringing over killing 10,000 people and Rude was all "Killing 10,000 people is my job", end of the day it's *real* hard to reel them back after that poo poo. Particularly Rude Exactly.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:11
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Xaiter posted:Yeah, this the thing I was taking about in terms of writing themselves into a corner. How the hell do we ramp back down from this? We went from relatively grounded in a sci-fi hippie spirit planet setting that feels partially ripped by DBZ to something from the ending of Lightning Returns. I think I'm less concerned with ramping back down--maybe because I'm used to video games having you take on insanely big things but later challenging you with something kinda mundane, and also because there'll be years in between this and the next part to just sorta let it sit--and more with the pacing of the moment, y'know? Doesn't mean it's good necessarily, but it's not really the thing that bothers me. It's the kind of thing I'm very good at letting slide. To be fair, it's not like it exploded out of a quiet moment. It comes at the end of an escalating series of action scenes starting with Cloud doing an insanely  motorcycle stunt in Shinra's lobby and ending with flying off a broken highway chased by an exploding robot. It just feels like we shift gears so quickly into metaphysical stuff, without really ramping up to that metaphysical stuff. We go from hilariously crazy action straight into very different and bigger hilariously crazy action with very little room to let anything breathe and it makes it just feel like this crazy escalation that really threw me out of the moment.I figure we can make sense of the crazy power level in those scenes because they're taking place outside of normal reality, at least. I think it's just a huge and weird tonal shift that could've used some more build-up to that moment, really. guts and bolts posted:I think Nintendo has come out with, like, a timeline that dictates every Zelda is actually in the same shared universe, but I think that poo poo is stupid and it makes more sense to me personally as a monomyth, this kind of story that people tell and it changes with each telling. That's interesting because that's the sort of thing I kinda hope FF7R ends up doing--leaning into being like a retelling of a myth with different details, but not necessarily getting too bogged down in the meta/timeline stuff in the process. I think the idea of FF7R being like a story people have told so many times that the details have changed over time but the heart stays the same, that idea sounds really cool.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:12
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CottonWolf posted:I think the combination of 1.11 and 2.22 are roughly comparable to this. Given that they diverge massively from the original plot right at the end of 2.22.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:13
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Replaying through chapter 17 and 18 and man I just adore how angry Aerith gets every time she sees/talks to Sephiroth. She knows. She really knows.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:14
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AngryRobotsInc posted:FF has been doing time travel fuckery since day one. Just because other FF games involve time travel fuckery doesn't mean every FF game needs time travel fuckery. Would FF4 or FF6 be improved if they added time loops to it? We won't really know if it improves the narrative of FF7 until part 2 comes out in three years.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:16
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Admittedly it was a funny moment playing the last battle and having Aerith drop a Thundega on Sephiroth's head. Over the last 20 years, she kind of became the videogame poster child for a Woman Stuffed in a Fridge
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Apr 21, 2020 02:16
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:They knew they were going to drop the plate even before they got up there. They did it anyways. Flopsy posted:I kinda thought since in ACC Reno was talking about how does one even atone for almost destroying the world they'd be taking that plot point but directing towards how do you begin to atone for killing a couple thousand people who had nothing to do with avalanche.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:18
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Harrow posted:That's interesting because that's the sort of thing I kinda hope FF7R ends up doing--leaning into being like a retelling of a myth with different details, but not necessarily getting too bogged down in the meta/timeline stuff in the process. I think the idea of FF7R being like a story people have told so many times that the details have changed over time but the heart stays the same, that idea sounds really cool. That's more or less what I've been thinking of them trying, even if I think it's an outside shot that this is the direction they're headed. A monomyth structure makes sense for games that have become mythology IRL, because strictly remaking the exact same story is creatively kinda bankrupt but if you just try to wholesale change lots of major poo poo you get... well you get the reaction you've seen here and elsewhere, a lot of the time, where it is divisive and controversial. I honestly think that by establishing FF7R as its own, discrete thing, the developers have allowed FF7 to remain a canonized thing, a part of culture that won't be "overwritten" because a newer, better version came out. It's trying to be a different thing, and I read that as a sort of respect for the original. To borrow from another hugely successful series of remakes, who among us would recommend the original RE, RE2, or RE3 to someone trying to get into the series, or who hasn't played those games before? I certainly wouldn't. While the REmakes have done incredible jobs updating the source material, they have also entirely replaced them, and in a certain poignant sense erased them as anything other than a footnote - "Oh, yeah, this game is the source for this other, better game. It's neat that it is culturally significant but haha my man just play the better version of the same thing." Like it or not that is unlikely to be the case with FF7 and FF7R.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:19
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This thread's going a mile a minute but I do agree that this feels like it's not the original ff7 story, but some sort of offshoot that's being repaired by the time cops to look like the original, and I think that has potential. I still want my ff7 but pretty, though.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:23
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Flopsy posted:I kinda thought since in ACC Reno was talking about how does one even atone for almost destroying the world they'd be taking that plot point but directing towards how do you begin to atone for killing a couple thousand people who had nothing to do with avalanche. Being executed in public would be a good start.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:28
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DeathChicken posted:Yeah, ultimately it doesn't matter if Reno was handwringing over killing 10,000 people and Rude was all "Killing 10,000 people is my job", end of the day it's *real* hard to reel them back after that poo poo. Particularly Rude it's actually very strange to me that they did it the way they did it this time. In the original, Reno runs over and open palm slams the button right away, shows zero remorse, and then fucks off. Rude doesn't even show up. The Turks later take on this weird recurring bad guy who occasionally works with the protagonists or has comic relief moments role, which is a bit disconnected from the fact that Reno killed thousands of people. In this, it was obvious that they were going to try and walk it back a bit. Makes sense. But the established characterization is that Reno is an unrepentant shitheel, Rude is a quiet guy who does his job professionally and has moments of humanity and Tseng is the cold, dickhead leader. So I figured either they'd have Tseng do it while Reno and Rude hemmed and hawwed about it, or they'd stick to the old version and have Reno do it but feel bad about it later. So it's bizarre to me that what actually happens this time is that Reno gets about 99% of the way through setting it up and then, instead of following through on it, seems to hesitate and decides to fight the party first instead. Cloud is literally standing there going "just loving press it already" and he doesn't.Then Rude, the Turk who would have been the easiest to characterize as not evil and who gets his "I'm not a bad guy, but sometimes I do bad things" line and Aeristh vouching for him, is the one who actually does it.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Being executed in public would be a good start. God forbid we have any interesting character development. You know if we were talking straight off the OG game you would have a point since in that version there was literally zero regret for dropping the plate and Reno actually made a joke out of it. But seeing as y'know we're not maybe dial it back a tad there.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:37
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guts and bolts posted:I think that the quoted text is infinitely less interesting than the theory that I've bandied about and that others have touched on, and inarguably would enhance the pathos of the circumstances: what if, because of her foreknowledge, Aerith knew she was supposed to die, and instead somebody else does, somebody who made it in the original game/path of fate? Would she blame herself? Would the party blame her? And not even just with character deaths - every single change that occurs, if it turns out to be a change for the worse on a major scale -- does that responsibility lie at Aerith's feet for encouraging the party to co-opt Sephiroth's plan and kill Destiny? That kind of poo poo is what has me interested in future installments, if that is the direction they take. I mean that's a fair take, I'm just looking at the way the original game meant to treat her death, which was it was meant to feel pointless and... hollow. I feel they can go a lot of ways with this, I'll even hold out for a potential Aerith Lives in the future. I just dislike the suggestion of "Aerith realizes she needs to die and heroically sacrifices herself" because... well it's Hollywood. I still think the most out-there play is "Cloud dies"
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Apr 21, 2020 02:44
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cock hero flux posted:it's actually very strange to me that they did it the way they did it this time. In the original, Reno runs over and open palm slams the button right away, shows zero remorse, and then fucks off. Rude doesn't even show up. The Turks later take on this weird recurring bad guy who occasionally works with the protagonists or has comic relief moments role, which is a bit disconnected from the fact that Reno killed thousands of people. I posted about this exact thing pages ago. Reno absolutely got off easy in the original narrative, and his transformation along with Rude into Team Rocket was strange; Reno's strong characterization and cool design carried a lot of the load, but the dissonance there was too wonky to overcome for me a lot of the time. (When dealing with Don Corneo in Wutai and Reno tells you he's off the clock, why don't we just... stab him? Shinra might not even notice for a good long while, since he's on vacation and all.) Reno is more or less directly responsible for the deaths of Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie. Like... c'mon, a little. Reno is given the glow up here, which makes sense considering he's the most popular Turk by a fair margin. Instead of putting that evil on him, he not only has the opportunity to do it and then doesn't, he also seems pretty perturbed that it happened at all, going so far as to be blatantly flippant toward his direct report in Tseng. It makes Rude's insisting that he isn't a bad guy in Chapter 8 ring super hollow, which I'd argue isn't inherently a bad narrative choice. Rude thinks he's not a bad guy, he just does bad things is all, and he's a super professional, you see, and... hey wait why aren't you listening. My hope is that Rude absolutely gets dragged for this bullshit. Seeing what he does in dropping the plate makes his self-aggrandizing horseshit in Chapter 8 the preening of an insufferable douchebag instead of a cool guy doing cool stuff. gently caress Rude! He could've done what Reno did and begged off the job, or had plausible deniability for why they couldn't pull it off, or something. But nope, he's this CONSUMMATE PRO and goes out of his way to, as you put it, open palm slam the button. Get hosed, Rude.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:45
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guts and bolts posted:I posted about this exact thing pages ago. Reno absolutely got off easy in the original narrative, and his transformation along with Rude into Team Rocket was strange; Reno's strong characterization and cool design carried a lot of the load, but the dissonance there was too wonky to overcome for me a lot of the time. (When dealing with Don Corneo in Wutai and Reno tells you he's off the clock, why don't we just... stab him? Shinra might not even notice for a good long while, since he's on vacation and all.) Reno is more or less directly responsible for the deaths of Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie. Like... c'mon, a little. Yeah, but I have what I feel is a compelling counter-argument: He carries multiple sunglasses to replace damaged ones mid-battle.
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Apr 21, 2020 02:49
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Flopsy posted:God forbid we have any interesting character development. You know if we were talking straight off the OG game you would have a point since in that version there was literally zero regret for dropping the plate and Reno actually made a joke out of it. But seeing as y'know we're not maybe dial it back a tad there. They can still feel bad about what they did and suffer actual consequences. The game should explore that. They should not get off scot-free. guts and bolts posted:
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Apr 21, 2020 02:50
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Get hosed, Rude.
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Onmi posted:I mean that's a fair take, I'm just looking at the way the original game meant to treat her death, which was it was meant to feel pointless and... hollow. I feel they can go a lot of ways with this, I'll even hold out for a potential Aerith Lives in the future. I just dislike the suggestion of "Aerith realizes she needs to die and heroically sacrifices herself" because... well it's Hollywood. There's obviously levels to this meta poo poo. There's a metanarrative, laden with subtext, and then there's, like, super-meta. Like how you know that Spider-Man isn't going to stay dead because Tom Holland is signed to an eight-picture deal and they're only through film number four, or whatever. That kind of knowledge unfortunately tends to rob certain works of their tension, because even if the creatives responsible try some super crazy poo poo, there's no way it will stick and the educated audience knows that. In a super duper meta context they will never kill Cloud off because people would be loving ripshit. In merchandising alone killing Cloud that has practically no precedent. He's one of the most popular characters in the history of video games across any number of polls, male or female respondents, and is the default ambassador of Final Fantasy in crossover works like Super Smash Bros. On some level I think we all know there's basically zero chance they off him, or if they do he comes back in triumphant fashion. Can you imagine the shitfits online if Cloud perma-died? Even considering it makes the mind reel Proteus Jones posted:Yeah, but I have what I feel is a compelling counter-argument: He carries multiple sunglasses to replace damaged ones mid-battle. Cool, hope he has an assistant to replace the glasses being broken after Barret shoots him in the face
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Apr 21, 2020 02:50
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:They can still feel bad about what they did and suffer actual consequences. The game should explore that. They should not get off scot-free. When I say atone did you think I meant sunshine and lollipops? They're definitely going to have to put some hardcore sweat, blood and tears in. It's not a small thing to make up for but the fact they could be OPEN to that and the work that's going require intrigues me. I am absolutely not the type to go soft on a villain. If they make the effort in the future to make up for it I'm interested but if they don't they can get hosed. Understand?
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Apr 21, 2020 02:56
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The plate drop is maybe one of the biggest acts of mass murder depicted in video games. Better be one hell of a redemption arc
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Apr 21, 2020 02:58
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What about the Hojo beach scene, that seems like it would be completely out of place now
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Apr 21, 2020 02:59
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guts and bolts posted:Reno is given the glow up here, which makes sense considering he's the most popular Turk by a fair margin. Instead of putting that evil on him, he not only has the opportunity to do it and then doesn't, he also seems pretty perturbed that it happened at all, going so far as to be blatantly flippant toward his direct report in Tseng. I mean what happens is that it takes a moment for the confirmation button to open, and in that time Cloud swings on him. Then the fact that he's an rear end in a top hat causes him to fight rather than turn around and hit the button, because he really wants to fight. And the extent of him being perturbed is to be pissy on a couch at work. There's no real major objection, just the implication he'd rather be fighting the badasses stopping him from mass murdering folks than mass murdering folks. He's still contently back to work for Rufus nine seconds later. It's still amazing how hard they had Rude fight to kill all those folks, like most people in the story didn't fight as hard to do anything as Rude fought to kill children. So it's like by spending more time humanizing the people lost in the drop, even if we get to save many of them, you are actually making both come off super worse. If they became some recurring villains or some poo poo in later games it'd be kind of insane, because there is zero reason the crew here wouldn't kill them outright. e: Like hell, even if you go by Advent Children they still work for Rufus, a manipulative rear end who is trying to get Shinra influence in Edge cemented and is still a total prick. They never at any point in any part of the story have any comeuppance or real change of demeanor. Mulva fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 02:59
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homeless snail posted:The plate drop is maybe one of the biggest acts of mass murder depicted in video games. Better be one hell of a redemption arc Exactly my point, its going to have to be some seriously big poo poo to even get started. My suggestion? Sabotage Shinra's attempted execution of Avalanche. And THAT'S just for starters.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:00
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Flopsy posted:When I say atone did you think I meant sunshine and lollipops? They're definitely going to have to put some hardcore sweat, blood and tears in. It's not a small thing to make up for but the fact they could be OPEN to that and the work that's going require intrigues me. I am absolutely not the type to go soft on a villain. If they make the effort in the future to make up for it I'm interested but if they don't they can get hosed. Understand? I actually think Reno's redemption arc is a layup. Have Reno continue to be antagonistic toward Cloud because they just do not like each other, but they also maybe don't want to kill each other. Both of them work(ed) for Shinra and both of them now have serious misgivings about doing so. Hell, we're in a new timeline, and Reno is popular enough with fans - what if he straight up loving quits the Turks and becomes a recruitable party member? Rude, though, is gonna have his work cut out for him. The death toll for the plate drop in FF7 is implicitly less than what Reno did in OG FF7 because of the emphasis on the evacuation effort, but Rude didn't actually know that when he pulled the trigger, so it basically doesn't count. He's a piece of poo poo. Having him redeem his utter piece-of-poo poo-itude is a tall order, and in terms of common writing tropes you're probably looking at a sympathetic death for him to wipe those books clean. Who knows? Maybe they both just stay Team Rocket in FF7R.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:01
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Elena > Reno
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Apr 21, 2020 03:02
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guts and bolts posted:Reno is given the glow up here, which makes sense considering he's the most popular Turk by a fair margin. Instead of putting that evil on him, he not only has the opportunity to do it and then doesn't, he also seems pretty perturbed that it happened at all, going so far as to be blatantly flippant toward his direct report in Tseng. It makes Rude's insisting that he isn't a bad guy in Chapter 8 ring super hollow, which I'd argue isn't inherently a bad narrative choice. Rude thinks he's not a bad guy, he just does bad things is all, and he's a super professional, you see, and... hey wait why aren't you listening. This would be a fuckin' incredible improvement to the story. The fanboy me in wants it to be Rude as the strong silent type with a conscience, but... He's the one who hit the button. And frankly, having the bombastic one do the heel-face-turn works better thematically as we watch a "Thou Doth Protest Too Much" kinda self-rationalization fall apart piece by piece. This could tie in extremely well with the Reeve/Cait plot like getting fleshed out. Shitloads of opportunity for fixing up the headscratchers surrounding Reeve's... Literally everything about him in the original.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:02
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Flopsy posted:When I say atone did you think I meant sunshine and lollipops? They're definitely going to have to put some hardcore sweat, blood and tears in. It's not a small thing to make up for but the fact they could be OPEN to that and the work that's going require intrigues me. I am absolutely not the type to go soft on a villain. If they make the effort in the future to make up for it I'm interested but if they don't they can get hosed. Understand?  CharlieFoxtrot posted:What about the Hojo beach scene, that seems like it would be completely out of place now The Turks arrive and beat his rear end. Then walk into the ocean.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:02
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guts and bolts posted:I actually think Reno's redemption arc is a layup. Have Reno continue to be antagonistic toward Cloud because they just do not like each other, but they also maybe don't want to kill each other. Both of them work(ed) for Shinra and both of them now have serious misgivings about doing so. Hell, we're in a new timeline, and Reno is popular enough with fans - what if he straight up loving quits the Turks and becomes a recruitable party member? This is why the open ending of the remake is loving awesome as far as I'm concerned. So many possibilities have opened up. Also we definitely need more Rufus scenes. Flopsy fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 03:03
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But yeah I get the sense that there are an increasing number of players like me who probably whole-heartedly reject Reeve's liberal incrementalism and were glad to have the scene with the Shinra Middle Manager, lol at "we're the good guys we can't just kill president shinra", put a bullet in all the gillionaires
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Apr 21, 2020 03:06
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Flopsy posted:This is why the open ending of the remake is loving awesome as far as I'm concerned. So many possibilities have opened up. Also we definitely need more Rufus scenes. This isn't an emptyquote. The ending got me so friggan pumped for part 2 that I'm surprised at my reaction. Maybe it'll amount to nothing or some dumb dogshit but right now I say bring on this unknown journey. OG Final Fantasy 7 will always be there, but it's been 23 years, I know what happens and I rather be surprised than to see old events with a fresh coat of paint.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:07
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Mulva posted:I mean what happens is that it takes a moment for the confirmation button to open, and in that time Cloud swings on him. Then the fact that he's an rear end in a top hat causes him to fight rather than turn around and hit the button, because he really wants to fight. And the extent of him being perturbed is to be pissy on a couch at work. There's no real major objection, just the implication he'd rather be fighting the badasses stopping him from mass murdering folks than mass murdering folks. He's still contently back to work for Rufus nine seconds later. Reno's a case of perhaps reading too much into subtlety where maybe it doesn't exist. I personally read Reno's willingness to fight and compromise the mission as misgivings, because he's a Turk and Turks are pros. OG FF7 Reno would have never in a million years not pushed the button, whether a fight was on or not. He would've cracked a loving joke about it, then fought the party anyway and bailed when he thought there was no way they'd escape. SMELL YA LATER LOSERS *cue Gary Oak theme* Context matters to me. Reno is a Turk and those dudes are wetworks. They get the dirtiest jobs on offer within Shinra, and considering what we see Shinra do publicly it's a scary thought. Cloud straight up tells Aerith in Chapter 8 that Turks ain't nothing to gently caress with, and that they handle way more than just
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Apr 21, 2020 03:08
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Can't wait for the guillotine sharpening minigame in part 2
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Apr 21, 2020 03:09
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homeless snail posted:The plate drop is maybe one of the biggest acts of mass murder depicted in video games. Better be one hell of a redemption arc I mean...I guess in some super relative way where you take into consideration all video games ever but it seemed like a very standard My Village Is Destroyed start of RPG. Is Sector 7 super way bigger in the Remake?
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Apr 21, 2020 03:13
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Jimbot posted:This isn't an emptyquote. Right? Like I just threw out a completely whizzbang nonsensical conjecture in "MAYBE RENO WILL JOIN THE PARTY" and for the first time in 23 years it's not just kid me writing fanfiction, that's the real direction a Final Fantasy VII story could take! Holy poo poo! PS: the boss theme for The Valkyrie is loving FIRE. Oh my GOD Masashi Hamauzu.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:13
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