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Poil posted:Civilized II and Zealous II. Double up on the double down. If anything I'm just horrified I knew the source. e: also, Civilized II and Zealous II.
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Apr 20, 2020 22:45
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Vote is closed. The winners are Zealous II by a large margin and Aerial I by a single vote. Probably would've been more powerful towards the beginning of the game and encouraged us to build more Archers/Thrower type units. Still has some economic application even now, but we'll see how the maintenance stuff works out in the end. Jossar fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 00:02
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Jossar’s Playthrough – Renaissance 4/Industrial 1 So I adopt Aerial I and Zealous II and apart from the promotion changes I don’t see any particularly major changes number-wise? My guess is that the slight maintenance and trade route benefits from Aerial I canceled out the additional Commerce penalty from Zealous II, for an entirely net neutral situation apart from the slightly superior combatants.   Anyways, Brazil comes into existence as a major civilization just in time for the war against Assyria to finish. Both are vassalized in short order.   I spend a lot of time researching incremental improvement techs, mostly pertaining to water/mounted stuff. Nationalism stands out mostly because it’s a civil based tech, but also for this extremely weird civic choice. I guess unless there’s a hidden penalty somewhere later the Gold Standard is just better than fiat currency?   Have some wonders. I think the culture bonus from the Alamo is a drop in the bucket at this point, but it’s different.  Representative Democracy brings some more wonders and a lot of civics with it. We transform into a standard liberal democracy as encouraged by the benefits.    It’s the last tech before the transition to the Industrial Era! I pick up Steam Power as the free tech which gives access to a few new resources for use in factories later, the point at which the mounted units we have access to finish their transition to being on par with other gunpowder units, and a few experimental steamships.   +1 population is even better than ever. What used to give us a few points now results in a 100 point score jump from increased productivity across the civilization.  To show you how powerful the Clockpunk units are, we only now get the ability to give regular units Blitz (the ability to attack multiple times in a turn). The limited ability to construct them and most other punk units really hurts because you can't make combined units, but sometimes you do just really want a unit that hits hard right out the gate.  Speaking of which it’s time for the next punk tech, mostly devoid of punk sensibilities as usual. Or possibly even promoting anti-punk sensibilities. I’ll get into that next update.  This is a really interesting concept, but I wish it just gave all the cultures period.  Waterproof Concrete is a really old (Classical Era, even) tech which is entirely optional. Unlike many techs which you will need to research eventually to advance in Eras it is never needed. It’s kind of like a Punk tech without most of the added flare. There’s very few others dotted in the tech tree. Mostly I got it because I have a few spare Great Engineers at this point and I wanted to free them up to research some techs.  Like so. Some proper Ironclads and more modern Workboats. I dunno when, if ever these things will get to the point where they aren’t consumed upon working a tile though. (Techs not mentioned: Naval Tactics, Sextant, Explosives, Constitution, Grand War, Mounted Archery, Cavalry Tactics, Team Sports, Military Tradition, Commercial Whaling, Gas Lighting, Mine Warfare) Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 03:06
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Somehow it's not the misused -punk, nor the questionable ideas backed into some of the early game that got me sigh. It's the fact that they are goldbugs. In the year 2020.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:27
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SIGSEGV posted:Somehow it's not the misused -punk, nor the questionable ideas backed into some of the early game that got me sigh. It's the fact that they are goldbugs. In the year 2020. Galactic Civilizations 3 has corporate libertarianism as a government type on the same tier as Pretty Much The Culture or Pretty Much the United Federation of Planets, cryptocurrency as a desireable government feature, and the only thing that you can do to influence pop happiness aside from entertainment buildings is to adjust taxes.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:33
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Ideology is a powerful force.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:38
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SIGSEGV posted:Somehow it's not the misused -punk, nor the questionable ideas backed into some of the early game that got me sigh. It's the fact that they are goldbugs. In the year 2020. There's at least one subject like that here for everyone, although for me it is Steampunk, since I participated in the culture a fair amount (though never to the level of big-name status) back in the 2010s. I was/am sorely tempted to turn the next update into a rant, but then I look back on all the other horrible stuff and go "is it really worth it after not going on a rant for everything else?" I'd like to say the game gets better on this front, but it really doesn't. There's going to be at least one element that drives a reasonable person nuts, even in light of all the other horrible stuff, the whole way through.
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Apr 21, 2020 03:55
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Please go on a rant, especially since you've got personal experience you can relate it to!
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Apr 21, 2020 03:57
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Yeah, go ahead with that, it'll be a good thing to tide us over to Brad Wardell, if he's still the boss on GalCiv and given that post above, I suspect he is, losing tons of money in cryptocurrency poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:24
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SIGSEGV posted:Somehow it's not the misused -punk, nor the questionable ideas backed into some of the early game that got me sigh. It's the fact that they are goldbugs. In the year 2020. For more political hilarity look to the fact that marxism is a civic and one of two (subsidized welfare being the other) that lets you construct the social services and social justice organization buildings despite its only other unique buildings being police state stuff. Additionally, the single atheist religious policy (secularism is defined here as freedom of worship) is incredibly totalitarian and punishes you pretty heavily in terms of downsides, although it does give you a unique building only available to atheist civs...  Lol, gently caress this game  Jossar posted:There's at least one subject like that here for everyone, although for me it is Steampunk, since I participated in the culture a fair amount (though never to the level of big-name status) back in the 2010s. I was/am sorely tempted to turn the next update into a rant, but then I look back on all the other horrible stuff and go "is it really worth it after not going on a rant for everything else?" This sounds awesome, rant away zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 04:27
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SIGSEGV posted:Yeah, go ahead with that, it'll be a good thing to tide us over to Brad Wardell, if he's still the boss on GalCiv and given that post above, I suspect he is, losing tons of money in cryptocurrency poo poo. He is, and is still CEO of Stardock. And I didn't even touch on the fact that the deep lore of the series is a Silmarillion knockoff with Morgoth scratched out and his old screen name scribbled in on top.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:35
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Anticheese posted:He is, and is still CEO of Stardock. And I didn't even touch on the fact that the deep lore of the series is a Silmarillion knockoff with Morgoth scratched out and his old screen name scribbled in on top. Science fiction and fantasy are so nice, because they tell you so much about the author.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:54
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Hahahahaha, Brad Wardell is one of those loving Dark Enlightenment dweebs isn't he
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Apr 21, 2020 05:59
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Jossar’s Playthrough – Steampunk Rant (Experimentally rambly, a bit annoyed, and late at night. You’ve been warned.) As always with this sort of thing, this reflects my own personal experiences with Steampunk and is not necessarily indicative of the larger culture, as much as I want to try and sound authoritative about it. I’m not a professional historian. When I hung around Steampunks long enough, I came to find that there were a certain set of values which dominated the scene. These can generally be described as the Personal and the Political. They’re never entirely separated but you can have varying amounts of both.      (Power is used for activating or boosting certain buildings starting in the Industrial era and on. I'll probably explain it more when I get to the actual relevant point in the tech tree, but it's not really more complicated than that.) The most fundamental of the Steampunk Personal Values are Craft and Expression, fundamentally intertwined. Especially at the beginning of the subculture when the complexity and intricacies of the designs that people wanted to make and absence of those things in the conventional marketplace meant that if you wanted to a fully functional clockwork outfit, you were going to have to make the gizmos yourself. For some it could be coming up with an outfit with bits and pieces they’d mixed and matched from a series of convention stores and thrift shops, and being able to recount the acquisition story of each element of the ensemble. Some people would build overly intricate musical instruments that have no direct equivalent in the modern corpus and record albums with them. There are a lot of leather workers and metal casters making overly intricate objects of art. The point remains consistent – you’re making these things because they are an expression of who you are and because everyone is different, you have to put something of yourself in.   The most fundamental of the Steampunk Political Values are the Historical and the Fantastical. A lot of people came to the scene as much because they liked the Victorian Era as a subject matter, or at least its trappings. But simultaneously the fascination with the cool stuff came with terror at the horrors of the era. Steampunk as a political project is the attempt to reconcile the two to modern sensibilities by allowing the trappings of the era to be used in fantastical situations. This is also why Steampunk is very rarely a perfect recreation of the Victorian Era – apart from adding things on the general basis of “wouldn’t this be cool”, it’s also much easier to envision a situation in which the biases of the day were overturned because Britain needs every capable agent it has to offer to fight giant steam powered robots or whatever. And indeed, some of this stuff was encouraged by the very authors from the era whose works, if not perfectly conforming to modern sensibilities, stretched the boundaries of their own time in many different senses. Another angle on this is also true, especially for the most politically engaged of Steampunks, using the refuge of the fantastical, a powerful critique can be leveled against modernity for never really escaping the horrors of history. Steampunk Magazine (http://www.steampunkmagazine.com/) has a blurb which probably explains all this better than I do. I recommend using the website (either directly or through archive.org) to browse the back issues and get a better feel for the thought process of content creators.    The enemy of Steampunk, at least as we perceived it in those days, was general culture. The worry on everyone’s minds was that this very personalized and intimate thing that we were doing was going to be watered down and commoditized. Some of this was, let’s be honest, us being elitist jerks trying to gatekeep people who were less willing to put in the same level of engagement that we were. And as you can see, there’s nothing wrong with letting some things just be spectacle. A lot of the C2C units/buildings are fairly cool or at least value neutral relative to the rest of the era…    What’s wrong with the C2C depiction of Steampunk is this part. The bit where what was supposed to be heavy handed commentary on the monstrousness of society and sociopaths who exploited it has instead been directly coopted as a function of government oppression and framed in such a way that you’re supposed to think of it as being really cool. Jossar fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 06:03
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Where the gently caress are the crimson skies planes, caveman to cosmos devs 
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Apr 21, 2020 06:31
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I think it might be under Dieselpunk. I know it has at least has some goofy variant of biplanes.
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Apr 21, 2020 06:39
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quote:I guess unless there’s a hidden penalty somewhere later the Gold Standard is just better than fiat currency? lol ok sure game
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Apr 21, 2020 10:23
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The Steampunk tech and the industrial era as a whole are fantastic examples of the problems that the mod has with balance and quality control The factory is required to build every type of specialized factory in the era, all of which require power and most of which produce resources that don't do anything beyond provide an entry in the civilopedia. The factory itself doesn't require power but is needed to build the power plants that power the other factories. Each city requires its own power plant which if I remember correctly is a change from earlier versions where one power plant could provide power to every city that was connected to the city it was in. Hilariously the tech that gives you all of the specialized factories isn't the same as the one that gives you the power plants so it's possible to spend many turns unable to use them depending on what techs you're researching. Factories and power immediately stop making sense the second you unlock them when you realize that the earlier buildings that produced resources such as baskets or clothing aren't made obsolete with the invention of factories. The factories, indeed, only give you a few extra units of wealth or food over the original buildings (depending on the type of factory) while also giving you various amounts of air pollution and flammability. The power plants needed in each city give a lot of air pollution and flammability, with the notable exception of the biomass power plant which is nearly clean energy though they require that you build one fertilizer plant (itself giving a large amount of flammability) to provide the fertilizer resource needed to build them. The fertilizer plant itself requires chemicals but those become available in the renaissance era when you build the chemistry lab research building. Fertilizer is only used for the biomass plant so the flammability given by the fertilizer plant and the biomass plant is nearly equal to two coal plants. That drops off immediately though as the way that resources work in C2C means that you'll only ever need one fertilizer plant. The biomass plant is available at around the same time as the others but is less polluting and less flammable than them in EVERY way to the point that I'm not sure why they're even in the game other than for flavor. The only benefit that the other power plants have is that they are far cheaper in terms of maintenance but that doesn't really matter considering that you're absolutely swimming in money at this point. On a side note, although biomass here essentially means burning wood and plant and crop residue the kind of large-scale biomass power generation that the building represents hasn't really been a thing until this century. I'm dead certain it was meant to be part of a technology either near the end of the atomic era or the beginning of the information era considering its association with significantly cleaner energy. The unique Steampunk power plants are all cheaper than their normie counterparts but are mostly as bad or worse in terms of air pollution and unhealthiness. In terms of resources needed the peat fired dynamo will probably never get built as peat is a rare resource on the map. Coal is a little limited on the map but the way that the resource system works with one source being enough for your entire empire means that you'll almost certainly be able to build coal dynamos, though you wouldn't really want to considering the pollution. The wood dynamo is the biomass power plant of the Steampunk buildings in that it's better than the others and uses a resource that's nearly impossible not to have. You could argue that the dynamos have better production bonuses but at this point in the game less pollution is more important to the point that the biomass plant wins every time. They might have been more appealing if they provided power without needing to research electricity first and if the biomass plant was further down the tech tree but as it is they're pretty much just a curio for the player that gets Steampunk. Everything about the industrial era is loving baffling but that's par for the course at this point. zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 11:11
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overmind2000 posted:Everything about the industrial era is loving baffling but that's par for the course at this point. Jossar's Playthrough - Industrial 2 Update mood: "Have you heard the Good News about our Lord and Savior, John D. Rockefeller?"  Railroad provides the next set of transportation techs. Things are starting to get really fast now, and you can traverse a continent in only a few turns whereas it used to take you dozens.  By the way, although the Minor Civs aren’t keeping up technologically, Barbarians are at least making a run of it. They are in fact, sitting in the capital city of what used to be a Minor Civ. This is one of many reasons why I don’t poke the edges of civilization and just let them sit.  Organic Chemistry comes with a few upgrades/resources, but most importantly it comes with the first Corporation that I find to be worth building.    I said that Corporations were Religion 2.0. This is pretty much the truth, apart from a couple of mechanical shifts. You have to expend a Great Person (in this case a Great Scientist) to found the Corporate Headquarters of a particular Corporation. This comes with a building that makes money for every city that the Corporation is present in. Corporate Headquarters is the only place that can train executives which spread the Corporation to other cities.   Corporations generate certain core things like Science in every city that they’re in, generating increasing amounts if they have access to certain map resources. Additionally they usually give the city the opportunity to build a factory which also benefits from those same map resources. Corporations are mutually exclusive with certain other corporations… but the list doesn’t overlap and you can have a bunch of them in the same cities as long as you plan properly.  Following the “totally not a religion” theme, we have the Corporations screen, which is totally not the Religion screen. Here we can see that after a little bit of evangelism, Standard Ethanol now provides the Light of the Sun to homes across the world at cheap and affordable prices.  If you don’t want to use horrible flesh robots, this is the next relevant upgrade for your workers.   overmind2000 covered most of the relevant factors concerning factories and power that I didn’t. Of course, I will be ignoring most of this and just building whatever I feel like. You want to know why?  Because most of it doesn’t actually matter (i’m kind of annoyed at Karakorum’s loss of Education here but that should be fixed soon enough). The industrial output of cities is so large at this point that you can be living in a toxic hellworld and they’ll still keep growing. Maybe I’ll net lose some money and culture production in the end but we’re well overstocked on those anyway.     Even if the problems keep getting worse, this is also when a bunch of health based techs come into play, letting you get away with your actions with no meaningful consequences whatsoever as the atmosphere turns to poison and the ozone layer vanishes. In the worst case scenario you just found one or two of the food corporations to force your cities to keep growing. This will continue until the Atomic Era/Information when you start developing technologies that let you actually clean up the mess and the very beginning of Nanotech where you solve the problem mostly for good if you haven’t already. Don’t you just love the wonders of industry? (As overmind2000 was describing, this isn't really optimal play. But the fact it works at all is pretty nightmarish.) (Techs not mentioned: Statistics, Food Preservation, Elixirs and Tonics, Thermodynamics, Deputization, Emancipation, Machine Tools, Steel, Fire Brigades) Jossar fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 16:59
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What are your civics right now?
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Apr 21, 2020 17:24
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To answer that requires as many pictures as an actual update! So I guess we'll call it... Jossar's Playthrough - Bonus Update: Industrial Era Civic Status                To summarize: it's mostly your standard 1800s liberal democracy/not warmongering but not pacifist build with a little bit of a religious twist to take advantage of the Andeanism/Zealous bonuses. Trade's the other odd duck out that's not already been mentioned because I value its beaker bonus more than the other economy bonuses. Jossar fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 17:40
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Jossar posted:overmind2000 covered most of the relevant factors concerning factories and power that I didn’t. Of course, I will be ignoring most of this and just building whatever I feel like. Nothing wrong with that At this point you pretty much have to make your own fun, I was mostly just pointing out that C2C's mindset of throwing everything in makes a lot of things fundamentally mechanically incoherent in terms of being a game. I'm still not sure if this is supposed to BE a game and not just a collection of buildings and techs.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:37
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What's that unit with the california flag? a prospector?
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Apr 21, 2020 19:44
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 Exactly so.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:47
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2020 20:25
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sincx posted:There's a California culture? All of your road names have the word "the" appended to the front of them.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:27
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What else does the mod say about California?
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Lol the Sudanese have the loving Janjaweed as their unique unit Their unique leader is the Mahdi which makes sense as he was an important figure in the history of modern Sudan (well, modern if we count the 19th century). Someone took a look at Sudanese history and thought "Well, we could use the Madhi's followers as the unique unit, the Mahdist War was a pretty big thing in Sudan. Nah, no one cares about their history, let's just give them the Sudanese equivalent of the SS". You could be generous and say that they're referring to the rebels in Darfur as being the militia but at this point I'm not giving the mod the benefit of the doubt when it comes to questionable poo poo. zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 20:39
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sincx posted:There's a California culture? The culture page just lists a short wikipedia summary about the state and that's it. Not even a hero. Some of C2C is incredibly deep levels of detailed nonsense and other parts of it are  .
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Apr 21, 2020 21:04
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Jossar's Playthrough - Industrial 3 Just gonna keep on drilling for all the planet’s worth.  More wonders which increase health to avoid having to deal with environmental fallout.  Oh boy I love this tech, it’s so stupid.  Before: Fully functional section of polar ice caps.  After: City on a mountain on the border of space, now harvesting freed up water tiles. Y’know what, I think we can do better.   There we go. I’ve been holding on to Machu Picchu for a while now to use in this city. With all the bonuses and connection to the rest of the civilization via trade it’ll build up on its own and eventually become our major spaceport starting in late Atomic Era.  Okay fine, I’ll stop destroying the environment. Techs like these aren’t a universal solution to our problems in Industrial, as I mentioned we’ll be getting more pollution based buildings and we’ll only really start turning the tide around some time next era. But it’s surprisingly powerful damage control.   This marks the first of a series of wonders that are moderately important to get because they produce a unique resource that is consumed by one of the Culture Corporations later on.  I really feel like this tech used to be higher up in the tree, somewhere in Atomic. It doesn’t seem like we should have access to Modern-era workers yet or ambulance-type hospitalization units. Oh well. Time for a trait vote again? Unlike last time I thought we were at a really good stopping point last update, this one just sorta blindsided me. (Techs not mentioned: Marine Biology, Polymerization, Bicycles, Mass Transit) Jossar’s Playthrough - 7th Trait Vote One Positive Trait, options are the same as last time, but now Aerial II is added to the advanced trait pile.  First to 7 votes or the trait with the most votes by 8 AM EST tomorrow gets it.
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Apr 21, 2020 22:00
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Aerial II
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Apr 21, 2020 22:47
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2020 23:16
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I'm still for scientific we kind of don't need anything else.
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Apr 22, 2020 00:26
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So we've obscenely eclipsed our rival civs in everything, right? Like they're sitting there in the early ages while we're streaming through the industrial age?
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Apr 22, 2020 00:40
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The vassal we made (Babylon) is an age behind us, give or take some techs. The other non-minors aren't literally at the bottom of the tech tree, but we've far eclipsed them let alone the minor civs. It's pretty clear, and has been since Celtia if not from the moment we punked the Persians that it's our world and they're just living in it. Jossar fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 00:55
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Dozens of available examples of actual confederations and they use the loving CSA battle flag as the symbol for it. gently caress these devs. Aerial II
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Apr 22, 2020 01:59
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Scientific
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Apr 22, 2020 03:48
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So, what is the difference (in game terms) of Confederacy and Federalism? Considering other hot takes this mod has, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something related to slavery.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:32
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Vote closed, Scientific it is.Banemaster posted:So, what is the difference (in game terms) of Confederacy and Federalism? Considering other hot takes this mod has, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something related to slavery.  Well you have to remember that the Slavery Worldview has mostly been defanged at this point. So instead what it does is give bonus stats to Plantations and other agricultural buildings.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:31
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Jossar's Playthrough - Industrial 4 Science situation adopting Scientific. It’s definitely a noticeable boost of a couple thousand beakers.  Refrigeration allows for more ways to manipulate hot/cold environments and a wide variety of food corporations. I think we’re good on not starving, so I probably won’t build any of these corps.   I will make this place self-sustaining even if I have to develop terrain reshaping to do it!  Man, look at that crime reduction level. I think the Alcatraz bonus also gives every city a -50 to crime or something ridiculous like that, in addition to the happiness bonus from you shoving all your high security criminals out of sight and out of mind.   Telephone and Civil Engineering combine to bring a lot of the fiddly little side-buildings hidden away in the city menus up to the modern era. I haven’t really talked about these a lot because they’re not particularly interesting. Just another set of automatically-built buildings that you don’t really have any control over improving until you reach a set tech level.  Civil Engineering also allows your boats to construct an upgrade that lets land units move on water. But it doesn’t let you build tunnels in the deepest parts of the sea yet and at this point transportation via boat is usually faster anyway. I guess it’s useful if you want to shove a lot of land based dudes somewhere very quickly, but that pretty much requires you to have control of the area to get the infrastructure up and running anyway. And then you just use boats. Finally, you also get the ability to build some nice buildings like parks to clear up some of your smog and health problems. Maybe we’ll finally have get to have clean cities after all?   No, no we will not.   Agricultural Engineering is hilariously overpowered. I think it’s meant for those players who’ve done literally no damage control and find themselves so deep in the hole they’ll never make it out of Industrial unless they have superfarms.   Compulsory Education leads to the next tier of education/science buildings along with the extremely militant Anti-Religion civic and its appropriate buildings. The one thing worth picking up here is the Codified language civic.    Imperialism is a tech that’s entirely useless except for its wonders, but they’re some pretty nice wonders.  The most notable thing about Artillery is you get to build some pretty big Pre-Dreadnaught boats, which are a big jump up from the metal/steam powered ones that haven’t truly embraced modern design functionality.     Motion Pictures is an extremely important technology because it unlocks a bunch of Corporations that I plan to build eventually. Right now I’ve only got one Great Artist, so I have to choose. I pick Red Curtains not for its culture bonuses, which are okay, but for the bonus to GPP provided by its building. I’ll be spreading that around over the next few turns.   Foreign Policy introduces Secured Borders, which although it loses some good benefits of Open Borders, for the most part serves as the synthesis of it and Closed Borders.   You know, I’m not really super into Marxist political theory but I get the feeling that bonuses which reflect having a large standing army don’t quite fit the ideals of a classless society. Also those building options are all over the place in tone. And after a few more techs researched offscreen it’s on to the Atomic Era. (Techs not mentioned: Archaeology, Photography, Journalism, Psychology, Telegraph, Balloon Warfare, Meteorology, Hydroelectricity, Barbed Wire, Management, Gyrocompass, Semi-Automatic Weapons, Labor Unions, Women’s Suffrage, Radio) Jossar fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 21:01
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....does Imperialism allow Rhodesian culture? FFS.
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Apr 22, 2020 21:10
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