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Katana_Warrior
Dec 25, 2009

I have a question about working in an industry with limited opportunities for growth. I've been at my first job out of my CS bachelor's program for about a year now with a professional sports team doing data analytics and web dev work. I love my job and just working for a sports team still feels absolutely bonkers levels of cool, but the pay is bad (for CS) and there's not too many levels I can go up in my line of work. I'm not really concerned about either of those, but I'm wondering if there's anything I should think about before I camp out in this sick rear end pigeonhole for the next 30 years.

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Jordan7hm
Feb 17, 2011




Lipstick Apathy

Lockback posted:

Its going to be a rough couple quarters, yeah.

Gonna be really good after those quarters though.

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013

Lockback posted:

Are you in school or otherwise gaining some skills that are going to help you get to whatever field you want to get into? If not, then staying in a relatively low paying dead end (by your description) job is probably not a good idea, even if there is flexibility. Otherwise no one can really answer the "Flexibility VS Money" question other than you. I personally favor flexibility quite a bit, but I think you will very, very quickly find that $18-$20 an hour will be pretty limiting as you start getting older. I can't really tell you what that's worth though.

I’m definitely not planning on doing this for more than another year or two. ideally I’d love to fully transition to teaching even if that’s also not a high paying job, it’s what I’ve wanted to do for years.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Katana_Warrior posted:

I have a question about working in an industry with limited opportunities for growth. I've been at my first job out of my CS bachelor's program for about a year now with a professional sports team doing data analytics and web dev work. I love my job and just working for a sports team still feels absolutely bonkers levels of cool, but the pay is bad (for CS) and there's not too many levels I can go up in my line of work. I'm not really concerned about either of those, but I'm wondering if there's anything I should think about before I camp out in this sick rear end pigeonhole for the next 30 years.

Nobody really cares that much about what you do in the first year or two after college as long as you don't get fired. If you like what you're doing now, stick with it for a year or so and take stock then.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Katana_Warrior posted:

I have a question about working in an industry with limited opportunities for growth. I've been at my first job out of my CS bachelor's program for about a year now with a professional sports team doing data analytics and web dev work. I love my job and just working for a sports team still feels absolutely bonkers levels of cool, but the pay is bad (for CS) and there's not too many levels I can go up in my line of work. I'm not really concerned about either of those, but I'm wondering if there's anything I should think about before I camp out in this sick rear end pigeonhole for the next 30 years.

loving cool jobs are worth it career wise even if the pay is bad. You will definitely stick out as a candidate down the road if you've worked for a pro sports team. If you're cool with the low pay you can always just lie about what you made when negotiating the next job, no shame in that.

Congrats on your cool job, it will help you stay on cool job track and you can always jump over to "not-cool but well paying" track anytime without really missing a beat. Just make sure you're shoveling as much money into your 401k and retirement so you don't fall behind on that.

Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009

Lockback posted:

loving cool jobs are worth it career wise even if the pay is bad. You will definitely stick out as a candidate down the road if you've worked for a pro sports team. If you're cool with the low pay you can always just lie about what you made when negotiating the next job, no shame in that.

Congrats on your cool job, it will help you stay on cool job track and you can always jump over to "not-cool but well paying" track anytime without really missing a beat. Just make sure you're shoveling as much money into your 401k and retirement so you don't fall behind on that.

Thanks for this. I’m in a somewhat similar situation, for the past 7 years (same first job out of college—let’s just say we’re a tiny cog in the Hollywood machine, located in the Midwest), clawing and scratching my way from $12/hour to ~$50k/year during that period of time. Not bad for an English major I guess.

I’d been thinking about leaving but I really just don’t have a network. Eventually I’ll probably want to get the company to pay for PMP certification so that I can move on to something more in the mid range for the Midwest region, which is $80k. But in the meantime...it is a cool job.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
don't loving lie about what you made in a prior job

what you made in a prior job isn't relevant to what you ought to be making for a future job

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

don't loving lie about what you made in a prior job

what you made in a prior job isn't relevant to what you ought to be making for a future job

Some places will directly ask "What were you making at the last position" and it's kinda naive to think everyone has the luxury to immediately walk away from jobs like that. It's a lovely question and you are justified to be effusive or lie to a lovely question, but the idea that everyone can just walk away from jobs that ask is just not reality. If you do, that's great, but not everyone can afford to keep the job hunt stringing along like that.

Saying "Based on what I was making at my last job, I think xxxx is fair" is easy to do and can help cover for the fact that salary wasn't a driving factor at the previous job.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
i kind of agree with your approach and wouldn't consider that lying about salary. but the better approach is "based on my skills x y and z and the value i can deliver to your company, i require $X in compensation"

but if they ask you how much you made and you say X when it really was Y, there's some risk. better to not answer the question.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
This comes up all the time in the negotiation thread. There are many successful strategies that do not require lying and many personal stories employing them across all kinds of levels and industries.

Katana_Warrior
Dec 25, 2009

Lockback posted:

loving cool jobs are worth it career wise even if the pay is bad. You will definitely stick out as a candidate down the road if you've worked for a pro sports team. If you're cool with the low pay you can always just lie about what you made when negotiating the next job, no shame in that.

Congrats on your cool job, it will help you stay on cool job track and you can always jump over to "not-cool but well paying" track anytime without really missing a beat. Just make sure you're shoveling as much money into your 401k and retirement so you don't fall behind on that.

Thanks for this, I wasn't thinking of future negotiations but I'll make a note of it. I don't think I'll have a problem explaining why I would want more compensation in an interview if I ever do switch from Cool Track to Fool Track though.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Yah people respond to brands, kind of irrationally.

So something like a major sports team on your resume is potentially worth quite a bit, if you can realize it via your next job or whatever opportunities you chase down.

Especially with a skillset not locking you into sports entertainment, which is actually not all that big or well paying.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Does anyone have experience negotiating some temporary exception to the standard at-will conditions of employment in a state with at-will employment when starting a new job? I hate my current job for many reasons (demotion on conversion to FTE by way of "Oh no, this is what you've always been, I have no idea why the paperwork you got before had a different title", pay cut on conversion to less than I was making at my last job, which was in a lower CoL area, not doing the job I interviewed for) but with the economy like it is I'm not really interested in being the newest person and therefore first on the layoffs chopping block. Someone in one of the IT threads mentioned something like a guarantee of employment, not sure if they were American or European or Canadian or what, it's something I never heard of before. The idea being that your employment contract states you can't be terminated without cause for x period. Currently going through a particularly lovely day at work and started considering applying for jobs and then if I get an offer, not taking it unless I can get something like that in the contract. Like I said though, I never heard of that before I read it in the IT thread, not sure if it's a more common thing in European Socialist (hellholes/paradises, select per your preferred politics).

My biggest concern aside from fruitless soul-crushing job hunting is that if things get bad enough the company might just decide to build up a case for termination with cause using stuff like "showed up two minutes late three times over six months," the kind of case that can be built against anyone but would require a lawyer to fight in court. Normally I don't think a company would even consider it, so it's a long shot no matter what, but I think it's pretty understandable that someone with a job right now wouldn't want to move without some kind of guarantee.

Sorry if this is disjointed, like I said, really bad day at work, having a hard time stringing thoughts together coherently.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
That kind of guarantee is almost certainly either from outside the US or par of a union (and even then you usually need to get through a trial period first). No place in the US is going to offer that kind of guarantee unless you are taking a job in the C Suite or in conjunction with something like a merger or purchasing of your IP. I can guarantee you won't get something like that and an employee asking would be kind of weird/red flaggish.

Companies also don't hire people just to fire them, hiring is expensive and laying people off is expensive. Not that there isn't real risk right now switching jobs but you're probably overly concerned that someone would try to fire you quickly. Most companies that have any concerns are on hiring freezes anyway.

If your current job is harming your mental health you should start looking around. If things start getting a bit better then it's probably safe to jump, and it'll probably take a while right now to find something new anyway. You can always start looking and see how the economy and job market go.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Does anyone have experience negotiating some temporary exception to the standard at-will conditions of employment in a state with at-will employment when starting a new job? I hate my current job for many reasons (demotion on conversion to FTE by way of "Oh no, this is what you've always been, I have no idea why the paperwork you got before had a different title", pay cut on conversion to less than I was making at my last job, which was in a lower CoL area, not doing the job I interviewed for) but with the economy like it is I'm not really interested in being the newest person and therefore first on the layoffs chopping block. Someone in one of the IT threads mentioned something like a guarantee of employment, not sure if they were American or European or Canadian or what, it's something I never heard of before. The idea being that your employment contract states you can't be terminated without cause for x period. Currently going through a particularly lovely day at work and started considering applying for jobs and then if I get an offer, not taking it unless I can get something like that in the contract. Like I said though, I never heard of that before I read it in the IT thread, not sure if it's a more common thing in European Socialist (hellholes/paradises, select per your preferred politics).

My biggest concern aside from fruitless soul-crushing job hunting is that if things get bad enough the company might just decide to build up a case for termination with cause using stuff like "showed up two minutes late three times over six months," the kind of case that can be built against anyone but would require a lawyer to fight in court. Normally I don't think a company would even consider it, so it's a long shot no matter what, but I think it's pretty understandable that someone with a job right now wouldn't want to move without some kind of guarantee.

Sorry if this is disjointed, like I said, really bad day at work, having a hard time stringing thoughts together coherently.
To my knowledge, that's not a thing in the US. And asking for it would come across as oddly pessimistic to a hiring manager. Hiring managers, in general, hire people they want to keep around.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Lockback posted:

That kind of guarantee is almost certainly either from outside the US or par of a union (and even then you usually need to get through a trial period first). No place in the US is going to offer that kind of guarantee unless you are taking a job in the C Suite or in conjunction with something like a merger or purchasing of your IP. I can guarantee you won't get something like that and an employee asking would be kind of weird/red flaggish.

Companies also don't hire people just to fire them, hiring is expensive and laying people off is expensive. Not that there isn't real risk right now switching jobs but you're probably overly concerned that someone would try to fire you quickly. Most companies that have any concerns are on hiring freezes anyway.

If your current job is harming your mental health you should start looking around. If things start getting a bit better then it's probably safe to jump, and it'll probably take a while right now to find something new anyway. You can always start looking and see how the economy and job market go.

That's what I was afraid of :smith:

I don't trust companies to handle this situation competently, my manager used to work for an insurance company and she was the only one pushing for any sort of business continuity plan when this was just starting to show up in the US, all of the executives thought she was crazy for thinking anything needed to be done besides telling people to stay home if they felt sick. I don't trust any company to not think "In a month everything will be back to normal and then number go up" and then start laying people off like crazy when, surprise, this isn't going away just because some states re-open.

I'm currently working on getting an AWS cert (was going to have it by now but Pearson-Vue shut down their physical offices and I haven't looked to see if they've started doing online tests for AWS yet) so a lot of the jobs that I would be going for are already remote/remote-optional even outside of a pandemic, what with not needing (or being able to get) physical access to the hardware. So hopefully I could get something relatively quickly, but I assume a lot of job reqs did get closed.

I'm trying to be level-headed and logical about my situation, because I know the entire world freaking out in one direction or another is causing distorted thoughts, but I normally have a tendency to be overly optimistic and it fucks me over, so I don't know what the "logical" amount of caution is at this point.

E: I mean I guess if I'm looking at a 30-40% raise, that would mean that I could stack up a lot of cash in reserve in case I did get laid off, and if I found a permanent remote position I could move even an hour away and cut my rent by several hundred dollars per month.

22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Apr 21, 2020

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
put it the other way around - why would the company want to give you a guarantee if not obligated

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



Yeah, that's why I was saying I know it's not a normal thing, but these aren't normal times either.

If it wasn't for the massive unemployment rate I would say because it's currently a high demand low supply position, but with unemployment like it is I think supply and demand may have shifted a little bit.

22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Apr 21, 2020

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013
yeah it depends on what the job is, too (what is it, by the way? you mentioned IT)

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



AWS engineering position, after I got the totally-not-a-demotion and totally-not-a-20%-pay-cut that according to the numbers they picked doesn't bring me down to the 25th percentile for the area for the totally-not-a-demotion title I resumed studying for the AWS Certified Solutions Architect. If I recall correctly about AWS starting up online exams I'll probably have it within a couple weeks, I just need to brush up again because it's been a while since I studied because the exam centers shut down last month. My current job was a generic sysadmin position when I interviewed for it.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Any place hiring right now -really- needs you. Our company is on a hiring freeze but we still have a few positions open because they're either rare or critical.

poo poo happens but you're better of wagering on the new job than holding tight.

SlyFrog
May 16, 2007

What? One name? Who are you, Seal?
Employees who hold the nut cards in an employment relationship in the U.S. do not get guaranteed employment as a general course, no matter how high up the food chain they are. What they are able to negotiate, depending on their negotiating position, is severance.

Executives (and other key man performers) are able to negotiate multiyear severance packages if they are terminated for anything other than cause (with cause being a high standard to meet under the agreement). At all points, it basically becomes a question of whether you are important enough to be able to negotiate any severance package, and if so, what are the terms and duration.

SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Apr 22, 2020

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
I'm getting very interested in economics/trade/monetary systems and things along those lines.

I'm a software dev with an engineering degree and I'm not sure I have the time or money to go back to school to study any of those things - is there a viable career path or way to get your foot in the door to work as a computer toucher/data person alongside people who work on those things, and learn by osmosis and by reading and doing courses on the side?

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

mila kunis posted:

I'm getting very interested in economics/trade/monetary systems and things along those lines.

I'm a software dev with an engineering degree and I'm not sure I have the time or money to go back to school to study any of those things - is there a viable career path or way to get your foot in the door to work as a computer toucher/data person alongside people who work on those things, and learn by osmosis and by reading and doing courses on the side?

Learn Data Science? That would be the skillset that would get you in that industry and closest to the that group. There's a bunch of deep learning going on in that area, and a bunch of those teams work really closely with people who can quickly prototype. Learning the math/stats is also really important there.

Sock The Great
Oct 1, 2006

It's Lonely At The Top. But It's Comforting To Look Down Upon Everyone At The Bottom
Grimey Drawer
I’m a sales engineer for a capital equipment manufacturer, my job is to make sure the stuff out outside reps sell actually works. Fortunately the equipment we sell is critical in PPE manufacturing, so this month has been stellar. However, once Covid 19 is behind us and the demand for PPE slows, I can see things slowing down significantly since the long term economic effects aren’t looking great. So I’m looking to develop some complimentary skills that I could potentially leverage into a new field if needed. I would like to learn how to code.

What’s a recommendation for an online coding course? I’m technical, but my only exposure to computer science was C++ in my first semester of college 17 years ago.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Sock The Great posted:

I’m a sales engineer for a capital equipment manufacturer, my job is to make sure the stuff out outside reps sell actually works. Fortunately the equipment we sell is critical in PPE manufacturing, so this month has been stellar. However, once Covid 19 is behind us and the demand for PPE slows, I can see things slowing down significantly since the long term economic effects aren’t looking great. So I’m looking to develop some complimentary skills that I could potentially leverage into a new field if needed. I would like to learn how to code.

What’s a recommendation for an online coding course? I’m technical, but my only exposure to computer science was C++ in my first semester of college 17 years ago.

With C++ background Java is not too hard to learn, and it still pretty highly in demand. For a new programmer I think Python is easiest to learn and some flavor of Javascript is probably the easiest to get hired with (though Python is pretty good too). Codeacademy, Coursera, there's a bunch out there. Make sure to store your code in Github so you can actually show what you know when you interview.

Hotel Kpro
Feb 24, 2011

owls don't go to school
Dinosaur Gum
Bleh. I'm getting real tired of working for my current employer. I took a 20% paycut/demotion a couple years ago along with several other coworkers and started studying for basic IT certs to do a bit of a career change. It seems like there's no jobs to be had right now for entry level IT stuff, and right now I have a solid lead in my current career field that would throw me into a senior technical position. I don't dislike metrology but I've found jobs to be scarce and the ones that pay real well are often in places no one would willingly live. I feel like it's still a good career path but I'm just kinda hesitant to throw away 2 years of night classes.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
What certs and IT jobs are you looking for? Certifications by themselves haven't been a pathway for a job for a while, and your basic "IT guy" has been phasing out too, and honestly the pay there has been dropping. A lot of those are moving on a more devops direction or circled around vendor apps like Salesforce and the like.

There's still jobs, but you have to specialize more and it requires more skills than it used to. Obviously right now those jobs are really dried up.

LeafyGreens
May 9, 2009

the elegant cephalopod

I’ve recently been laid off at work due to coronavirus, I’m a librarian at a university. My career has been pretty varied but for the most part I’ve worked in education adjacent support roles with some office admin. For the foreseeable future I can’t see my employment prospects or salary improving, and I’m sick of jumping around.

Like a lot of people now, I’m wondering about moving into software dev. I’m going through the free online course that Harvard put out and I’m really enjoying it, I’m good with computers, problem solving and teamwork and I’m prepared to put the work in.

I suppose my question is, how do you generally start getting experience and is it necessary for a degree? Most of the jobs I’ve checked out in my area (UK) don’t mention one as a requirement but I’m wondering if it’s a thing that’s not mentioned but preference will be given to them sort of thing. I can get funding for a Masters or BTEC but I’ve already done a BSc (in Archaeology lol) so not sure what my best option would be there. Should I just try to learn a language and start coding? Do some more certified online courses? I guess this was partly answered above though!

-Anders
Feb 1, 2007

Denmark. Wait, what?
You might want to have a look at the Newbie programming/get a job thread in the COBOL subforum: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3376083&pagenumber=667&perpage=40

LeafyGreens
May 9, 2009

the elegant cephalopod

Thanks this works! I’ll take a look, at least I have some free time to study and apply myself

https://dev.to/mariamodan/from-studying-chinese-to-becoming-a-javascript-developer-4iej

I found this after searching around as well, might help a few people looking to career swap

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Octolady posted:


I suppose my question is, how do you generally start getting experience and is it necessary for a degree? Most of the jobs I’ve checked out in my area (UK) don’t mention one as a requirement but I’m wondering if it’s a thing that’s not mentioned but preference will be given to them sort of thing. I can get funding for a Masters or BTEC but I’ve already done a BSc (in Archaeology lol) so not sure what my best option would be there. Should I just try to learn a language and start coding? Do some more certified online courses? I guess this was partly answered above though!

So I manage a global team that frequently hires new developers in, and I rely heavily on people doing mid-career switches.

The most important thing is you need to prove to me you know how to do the things we're doing. There will be some training and whatnot, and you don't have to have everything checked off, but no business is going to train you how to write code.

So Harvard's online courses are a good start, but generally I need

1. A number of examples of things you've made, ideally in github, that show a range of projects and ideally at least 1 thing non trivial. Personally I love dumb but useful things. Be ready to be grilled on why you made decisions and how you'd add features.

2. Some understanding of the software world and how products are made. Good coders who don't know how to work with teams or at least some basic Agile methodology are not good developers. Having some experience working with teams, remote or in person, is valuable. If you don't have that, learn about Agile.

and then either:

1. A degree in CS or related (Which you don't have, but that's not a worry). I generally think a CS degree is a good option when you're young and less so when you are further in your career, but everyone's different.

2. Gone through a bootcamp (Which is probably what I'd recommend you do). Go to a good one and take it seriously. I can tell when people get through them by copying their neighbor, and that's a great way to lose $10,000+. Your link is right that there is risk, but if you think the risk of one is too much you're probably not going to be able to dedicate the time it takes to get to junior level.

3. If neither above, then I need A LOT of code examples and probably some history of freelance work if nothing else. I'd like to see things like some moderately successful android apps, maybe some free applications that people have adopted, things like that. Basically, there needs to be some evidence you can actually develop something. This is what you're link did to give you an idea on how much stuff someone would want to see.

You should feel comfortable knocking out challenges in https://leetcode.com/ or other coding challenges. Personally I don't like to do coding challenges in interviews, I think dissecting completed work is better, but it's a good benchmark and lots of employers use them.

Your Archaeology degree is still useful, that will tell me you probably have good attention to detail, and you're probably an interesting person which is always nice. Personally I like to hire people who are reasonably well rounded, since any dev job will involve things like pitching ideas, writing documentation, convincing their boss that they are wrong in a way that doesn't piss them off, etc. I'd rather have someone who is good at all that vs someone who isn't but maybe a little better at React.

So either way, I think the path is probably 18 months and that link you sent is not unrealistic, though a lot of people will have trouble with 6+ month of intense, self-directed study. If you think you'll have trouble, think about some of the other paths if this is a strong goal.

Also, things like QA or Support can be very good careers. The Programmer thread will steer you away, but I know QA people who make $100+k with fun jobs that don't work themselves to the bone, and I've made a great career bouncing between support and development gigs. You still need those skills though.

Javes
May 6, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT APPEARING OFFLINE SO I DON'T HAVE TO TELL FRIENDS THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR MY VIDEO GAME TEAM.
I currently work at a hospital in the supply chain department on the data team. I do data visualization using Tableau and manage the databases that house all of our data using Access. I like my job but I'm thinking about my next move and I'm really interested in getting more involved in the data analysis side of things. Would becoming a data scientist be a smart move? I don't have a programming or statistics background but I've been learning python in my free time. Is having a PhD a requirement for most data scientist positions?

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Javes posted:

I currently work at a hospital in the supply chain department on the data team. I do data visualization using Tableau and manage the databases that house all of our data using Access. I like my job but I'm thinking about my next move and I'm really interested in getting more involved in the data analysis side of things. Would becoming a data scientist be a smart move? I don't have a programming or statistics background but I've been learning python in my free time. Is having a PhD a requirement for most data scientist positions?

Data Scientist is kinda a leap, I think. BUT, Data Analyst and Data Vis specialists is not a leap and something you have a line on. Getting some more python programming is good. You don't need to be a developer, but being able to put together a PoC or scaffold is useful. Tableau is great and having some examples of tight powerpoints have been important at every company I've done data stuff for.

Knowing SQL and noSQL is also really important. In particular Mongo and Elastic search are probably common. Everyone needs people who can mine. I think those roles usually value someone who can do a bunch of different stuff. Data Scientist doesn't need a PhD per se, but you do need some significant domain knowledge, hardcore math, and probably more than a little programming if you don't have the PhD.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
You could work in data science but not be a data scientist, if that makes sense.

Many orgs right now have the underpants gnome plan for DS:

1) hire data scientists
2)
3) profit

Those who are a little smarter or further down the road have realized a data science -function- is more than just a single role.

So someone with good business sense, some tech skills and is conversant in ds concepts would work with data scientists and other roles.

The bad news is that it's early days for this stuff so the role titles/req are over the place. as above, a lot of orgs aren't even looking at it this way (yet) so your pool of potential employers is unfortunately more limited than it should be.

The good news is that it's early days for this stuff so a bootstrapper has a better chance and if they're hiring this way, they probably "get it".

kneelbeforezog
Nov 13, 2019
I'd like a new career but my only skills despite having an MIS degree is very limited javascript ability and some other basic office software.
What are some office job titles entry level people can apply for and find reasonable success in getting a call back? I think id like to work in an office setting, so I kind of landed on looking for low paying, entry level office jobs. What are some other entry level jobs for corporate environments I could do?

Maybe those with "analyst" in the title, even though I dont really understand what those jobs are, just that they use BI tools / Tableau or something like that? What kind of positions should I be searching for on job sites with these criteria, and how can I help myself land the job. How can I do a project at home to show that I'm a good "analyst/whatever".
What does it take to be an an entry level/junior "analyst" with no experience at 29? I do not have much real world job experience other then the two month job I got fired from.

How do I know if Ive got what it takes to be an junior level/entry level "analyst" and what jobs are there in offices for people with no specific skills that a company could reasonably want to hire and train? Obviously companies can't hire inexperienced people for positions that need a ton of training, so I am looking for low paying office jobs that aren't miserable and that are for people without much ability yet.

I've never "analyzed" anything, what ive done in office settings so far in my life has constituted in the worst work imaginable, legal/medical billing , and I hate it and would like to avoid it. Its what I did all day at my last job when they were letting us work from home.

kneelbeforezog fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 26, 2020

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

I think you're generally on the right track. Most business or data analyst type jobs involve working with some suite of software for collecting/querying data and writing reports or slide decks about some aspect of the business or client. The term is pretty general though so it can mean a lot of different things and levels of expertise depending on the company and role.

If you know some basic programming you likely have a good head start. If you can say that you can work competently with basic SQL that's a big bullet point to emphasize. If you can do some basic report automation type work with python or javascript that's another huge bullet point. The skills required are a lot less than something like a software developer. A little bit goes a long way, you'd be surprised.

It's not the most glorious work but it can absolutely be a stepping stone to a ton of more technical and specialized roles.

Another similar track to consider would be software QA. If you've got a general familiarity with software and programming it's a decent entry level gig.

Edit: almost forgot the 9000 pound gorilla, Excel. If you're good with Excel's "advanced" features there's a lot of spreadsheet jockeying that analysts do so it can be a good resume item

Guinness fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 26, 2020

kneelbeforezog
Nov 13, 2019
I think I'm okay with basic SQL and I think I've used just about every advanced feature in excel when I was working on a project for fun.

I have SQL/excel on my resume but no job experience and a tough time making projects to show how much I know. I'll look into
https://www.udemy.com/course/the-complete-sql-bootcamp/ I bought this course a while back, would putting that i've completed it on my resume help? I looked into junior sql dev but those jobs seem very hard to get because the database is the companies lifeblood from what I've heard so it seems intimidating to be allowed to work on it. Software testing always seemed like a job too good to be true, like video game testing, to be honest. I'll look into these "QA" positions, searching Software Quality Assurance / Software Quality Assurance Analyst roles on indeed/ziprecruiter/glassdoor ?

What are some key differences between a technical business analyst and a Business Intelligence Analyst ? Which skills to emphasize for each?

kneelbeforezog fucked around with this message at 02:05 on May 26, 2020

a neurotic ai
Mar 22, 2012

kneelbeforezog posted:

What are the key differences between Business intelligence analyst and business analyst

In my experience there is some overlap, but a BI role is going to rely more heavily data science/modelling side of things. The job is to parse analytics, identify trends and deduce information from data to inform about the needs and health of the business.

I encounter business analysts a lot more on the business strategy and marketing side of things.

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Slow Motion
Jul 19, 2004

My favorite things in life are sex, drugs, feeling like a baller, and being $30,000 in debt.

a neurotic ai posted:

In my experience there is some overlap, but a BI role is going to rely more heavily data science/modelling side of things. The job is to parse analytics, identify trends and deduce information from data to inform about the needs and health of the business.

I encounter business analysts a lot more on the business strategy and marketing side of things.

The titles can be very vague and the responsibilities vary wildly company to company with lots of overlap. And regardless most of the tools are the same.

In a perfect world however there is a huge distinction: business intelligence is an operations focused role and business analyst is a strategic focused role.

BIs will work closely with a department within your business to help them optimize their day to day work. BAs will instead extract data to review the performance of many departments, benchmark it against outside data, and design initiatives or new programs to benefit the business. The end result is that BI is viewed as an IT support role for operations, and BA is viewed as a strategic decision support role. BA will get you more facetime with executives at the cost of erratic and stressful work. BI will help you build a deeper understanding of specific parts of the business and be much less stressful career, but cost you executive connections and some promotion opportunities.

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