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The USB Seagate drives I bought are SMR, which is why my copies run like poo poo after like ten minutes. Ugh.
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Apr 24, 2020 00:01
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I am running 9x 3TB WD Reds in my Unraid server and somehow they are all WFRX. They are all 3-4 years old so this must have happened more recently.
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Apr 24, 2020 00:30
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Paul MaudDib posted:I don't get the angle of picking on WD because they happened to be the first ones discovered doing this, since all the other brands have now confessed they're doing it too. You're going to punish WD by... taking your business to another brand that did the exact same thing as them? Well tbf, like I posted earlier Seagate at least has CMR right on the datasheet for their Ironwolf drives. So there's different levels of poo poo going on.
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Apr 24, 2020 02:38
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The Packrats Consumer NAS Thread: SMR?! Out Demon!
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Apr 24, 2020 02:41
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I had just ordered some 12TB Elements to shuck and start building a new zpool to migrate off my old pool of 8 50-60k-hour disks. Now I'm hoping they're not hiding SMR in the bigger white labels, too. I've got two now, and I'm probably going to grab 3 more in the next couple weeks. What's a good way to check them out before I commit to migrating all my data to them?
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Apr 24, 2020 04:42
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PitViper posted:I had just ordered some 12TB Elements to shuck and start building a new zpool to migrate off my old pool of 8 50-60k-hour disks. Now I'm hoping they're not hiding SMR in the bigger white labels, too. I've got two now, and I'm probably going to grab 3 more in the next couple weeks. What's a good way to check them out before I commit to migrating all my data to them? As far as I'm aware, they've confirmed that >= 8TB (no matter the SKU) is safe and CMR. This is why I think this is a massive self own, as the market where in theory they could have cut corners (people buying external drives and shucking them: "well that's not supported so sorry") they didn't, and in the model lineup where people were buying them specifically because of the performance implied by that lineup, they didn't offer the performance.
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Apr 24, 2020 05:04
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Buff Hardback posted:As far as I'm aware, they've confirmed that >= 8TB (no matter the SKU) is safe and CMR. I was under the impression, and don't hold it against me if this is just coming out of my rear end, but I thought the jist of it was that the external drives that people shuck were WD selling overcommit product for .gov type buyers who have a min and max commit tier with first right of refusal and then if they don't sell them at whatever $500 a drive gov rate they toss 'em in externals to just move the excess stock. The WD RED NAS drives sold as such don't have the same lineage and could be hosed with easier cuz they're going into SO/HO environments? Again that's just my understanding and I'm willing to be wrong but it also lines up with why each is as such
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Apr 24, 2020 05:24
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Sniep posted:I was under the impression, and don't hold it against me if this is just coming out of my rear end, but I thought the jist of it was that the external drives that people shuck were WD selling overcommit product for .gov type buyers who have a min and max commit tier with first right of refusal and then if they don't sell them at whatever $500 a drive gov rate they toss 'em in externals to just move the excess stock. The WD RED NAS drives sold as such don't have the same lineage and could be hosed with easier cuz they're going into SO/HO environments? I think that's more or less accurate but my god does it feel backwards for the super hacky acquisition method being better than the above board way of getting red/red equivalents
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Apr 24, 2020 06:00
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In the last few minutes I finished moving from 6x 3TB reds to 6x shucked white label 12TBs and the pile of trash left over is disgusting from an environmental perspective. $900 less expensive vs. bare drives. They don't appear to be SMR and they have TLER. I did 3x resilvers at about 20 hours each, and they performed as good or better as the WD30EFRXs they replaced.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:06
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Yeah I’m in the (very fortunate) position of being less than 50% full and using large capacity shucked drives so I know I’m safe. WD definitely hosed themselves and wasted an almost unimaginable amount of good will in the community. But I’m not going to hold it against them the next time I go to buy drives if it makes sense market wise and I’m making an informed decision. Think about it; please speak up anyone in this thread who has bought drives 4tb or smaller in the last, what, year? Idk, idgi. Is it a (bad) thing? Yes. But anyone in this thread that cares enough to make their own NAS is a vanishingly small segment of the population. If you want to make a statement, prove it with your dollars. WD isn’t going to give a gently caress.
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Apr 24, 2020 15:52
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Crunchy Black posted:Yeah I’m in the (very fortunate) position of being less than 50% full and using large capacity shucked drives so I know I’m safe. I can only assume that people are so mad at WD because the Red drives have/had a very good reputation in this community and their blogpost reads like it came straight out of the legal dept. None of the other manufacturers are any better from my point of view. Seagate did the same thing, I posted about this exact situation ITT a year ago.
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Apr 24, 2020 16:14
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eames posted:I can only assume that people are so mad at WD because the Red drives have/had a very good reputation in this community I think this is the root of it. Seagate can't do a whole lot to make their rep much worse for many folks that do this stuff and have been for awhile. WD bought HGST (the other good one) and Toshbia has the poo poo warranty issues. Now they are all confirmed problematic for their own reasons. I've always been one to pick up drives that have some reasonable level of expected reliability, but are also as good as I can pull on the $/TB scale so I don't expect my buying habits will change much next time it's needed. It's certainly annoying, though.
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Apr 24, 2020 16:38
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Paging anyone who wants to deal with me being a newbie moron for the 5th time over the last month... I shucked the 14TB easystores, popped them into my old tower, ran the Windows full format (took about 23 hours), did a SMART short, and two SMART long tests. Everything looks clean from what I can tell, but I also don't know what I'm talking about. Is there anything else I should do before setting up the 1819+ that's coming in today? Thanks as always.
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Apr 24, 2020 16:51
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Phone posted:Paging anyone who wants to deal with me being a newbie moron for the 5th time over the last month... I would have skipped the windows stuff entirely, and run badblocks (badblocks -b 4096 -ws /dev/device) instead, but you've at least done a due-diligence test. Most pre-built NAS units with storage have even less testing done, and the failure rates are pretty low. Just FYI, running 2 long SMART tests in a row doesn't do you any more good than 1, AFAIK.
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Apr 24, 2020 18:03
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Yeah, I'm right around 50% full on my single 8tb shucked data drive plus 1 parity, but I won't be purchasing anytime soon since mine is sitting in the garage thanks to corona and relocating. Hopefully they don't do SMR on everything by the time I have to buy more
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Apr 24, 2020 18:15
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Phone posted:Paging anyone who wants to deal with me being a newbie moron for the 5th time over the last month... I would use dban / nwipe myself but either way if you put them under any load at all for at least for that kind of timeframe, you've already ruled out DOA and that's probably good enough.
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Apr 24, 2020 18:26
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sharkytm posted:I would have skipped the windows stuff entirely, and run badblocks (badblocks -b 4096 -ws /dev/device) instead, but you've at least done a due-diligence test. Most pre-built NAS units with storage have even less testing done, and the failure rates are pretty low. Just FYI, running 2 long SMART tests in a row doesn't do you any more good than 1, AFAIK. IOwnCalculus posted:I would use dban / nwipe myself but either way if you put them under any load at all for at least for that kind of timeframe, you've already ruled out DOA and that's probably good enough. From what I've read the Windows full format writes 0s to every sector and I saw 98% utilization, so I used what I had on hand that didn't require messing with more stuff than I had to. Thanks for the help AI pals.
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Apr 24, 2020 18:40
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This would all make at least a bit of sense if from the day they announced the Red Pro drives, they removed the word nas from all regular WD Red branding and marketing, but they did not such thing.
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Apr 24, 2020 20:34
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Phone posted:Paging anyone who wants to deal with me being a newbie moron for the 5th time over the last month... Jam those bad boys in there.
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Apr 24, 2020 20:52
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Phone posted:From what I've read the Windows full format writes 0s to every sector and I saw 98% utilization, so I used what I had on hand that didn't require messing with more stuff than I had to. Thanks for the help AI pals. It does, but that doesn't help if you've got a bit stuck on 0. Badblocks writes three different patterns to the entire disk and verifies each one in turn. Regardless: H110Hawk posted:Jam those bad boys in there.
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Apr 24, 2020 21:07
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Nfcknblvbl posted:I'm going to get back into having a NAS after my homemade one died last year. I'll mainly use the NAS as a Plex server, and I'll be sharing my library with about a dozen friends. This time, I'd like to buy a consumer grade NAS, and I'm looking at the QNAP TVS-682-i3-8G-US 6 Bay, it's going for $1,300 on Amazon. Is this a good buy? That will do the job with plenty of cpu and ram. QNAP have a lot of apps that you can use through the web interface and having 2GB+ of ram should give you some of the more useful search features.
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Apr 25, 2020 00:26
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Need some help diagnosing my problems because it seems too coincidental to be true. Hard Drive A: 6 year old Hitachi Hard Drive B: 2.5 year old Toshiba Hard Drive C: Just-arrived Toshiba B started making clicking sounds, so I unplugged it while I was waiting for C to arrive. But now that I plug in C, it's making a whirring sound of its own, too. All this time, A has worked fine. I even tried unplugging A and using its cables for B and C -- but to no avail. So it doesn't seem like a cable fault. Can anyone advise me on what to do? It seems way too coincidental that a new hard drive has the exact same problem as the old one, but I have tested it with different cables...
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Apr 25, 2020 04:21
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So I need to add another drive to my home server, however I'm limited by the number of SATA ports on my mobo. I understand you can get pci-e expansion cards. My basic research says I don't want port multipliers, I want a card with it's own controller. Are either of these suitable? They seem to have their own controller, just one has two sata ports and one has four. https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Controllers/SATA-&-SAS-&-M.2/64478-SST-ECS03 https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Controllers/SATA-&-SAS-&-M.2/78928-PEXSAT34RH I don't need RAID or anything, I just need more SATA ports. edit: and are the ebay ones that are half the price dodgy or legit? https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PCIE-Ex...-cAAOSwy11emkM3 hambeet fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Apr 25, 2020 |
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Apr 25, 2020 04:42
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They would, but many of those cheaper SATA expansion cards have iffy performance and low quality. Your best best is to look for something with a LSI chipset, like this: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LSI-9210-8i-6Gbps-SAS-SATA-8-Ports-HBA-PCI-E-RAID-Controller-Card-AU-seller/143372493429?epid=2040743814 that will get you up to 8 additional ports (you'll need to also purchase the breakout cables for like $5). You will want to flash it to "IT mode" which is easy (just Google for the steps) if the listing doesn't say it's already been done.
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Apr 25, 2020 05:18
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Oh ace, thanks! A quick search suggests these type of breakout cables : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-Breakout-Internal-Cable-50cm-Mini-SAS-To-4-SATA-SFF-8087-Multi-Lane-Adapter/192929132020 correct?
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Apr 25, 2020 05:27
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Yup, those would work.
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Apr 25, 2020 05:40
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Getting a SAS controller is always the better option, since if you want to add more than the drives capable with the available ports on the SAS card, you can just get a SAS expander, hook the SAS card up to the expander and then get a stupid amount of ports. I can actually support more drives than my case can hold, as I have a HP SAS expander with a total of 8 ports, 2 going from the SAS controller on my mobo to it, and then the 6 at 4 drives a piece remaining.
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Apr 25, 2020 05:45
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The other thing is, if you're planning on doing SAS drives ever, getting the SFF-8087 to SFF-8482 cables, rather than SFF-8087 to SATA ( the ones you linked) is generally a better bet. SFF-8482 (SAS drive connectors) is compatible with SATA, but SAS drives can't use a SATA standard breakout cable.
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Apr 25, 2020 05:48
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Those 14TBs need to go on sale soon....
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Apr 25, 2020 08:13
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I wonder if 12Gb SAS stuff will drop in price or if a lot of used stuff will go up on ebay once 24Gb SAS gets more widely adopted..
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Apr 25, 2020 08:15
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priznat posted:I wonder if 12Gb SAS stuff will drop in price or if a lot of used stuff will go up on ebay once 24Gb SAS gets more widely adopted.. Some has started to pop up: https://www.ebay.com/itm/SEAGATE-EXOS-10TB-7-2K-3-5-12Gb-SAS-4KN-v6-ENTERPRISE-HARD-DRIVE-ST10000NM0206/353020827597 https://www.ebay.com/itm/HGST-Ultrastar-He10-0F27438-HUH721010AL4204-10TB-3-5-7-2K-RPM-SAS-12Gb-s-4Kn-HDD/223851179914 I like to keep an eye on the ServeTheHome great deals forum to watch for this kind of stuff and old servers, memory, etc. https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?forums/great-deals.8/
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Apr 25, 2020 09:00
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Rexxed posted:I like to keep an eye on the ServeTheHome great deals forum to watch for this kind of stuff and old servers, memory, etc. Huh, thanks for that. CDW Outlet seems like it might be a good option. Even if it's a Seagate, $115 for a new 8TB SAS drive is not bad at all.
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Apr 25, 2020 16:05
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I got lucky with my 4tb reds that were purchased around September 2019, though it's not clear to me whether it would have impacted my use case much (media storage, Plex and various apps to get media). File copies/moves happen infrequently as must things are downloading where they need to sit forever. I can see this loving over someone doing some high-def video editing type stuff though I guess. I think at least this issue has likely gotten loads of attention amongst the admittedly small subsection of home storage enthusiasts though so it'll be interesting to see the longer term impact on WD and others using SMR. I certainly will be taking a really close look at what I use when I move to larger disks even if it isn't likely to impact me much.
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Apr 26, 2020 01:56
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The problem isn't generally steady state, it's recovering from a degraded state when you are at your most vulnerable to larger impact. So long as they maintain their promised IO characteristics it "shouldn't" matter, but a disk that stalls for a minute flushing cache is dead to any storage array worth purchasing.
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Apr 26, 2020 02:09
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IOwnCalculus posted:Huh, thanks for that. CDW Outlet seems like it might be a good option. Even if it's a Seagate, $115 for a new 8TB SAS drive is not bad at all. Only one per cart: boo, hiss
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Apr 26, 2020 02:35
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Phone posted:Paging anyone who wants to deal with me being a newbie moron for the 5th time over the last month... I think it's more important to mate the drive to the NAS and run both for 30 days with no spin-down to validate the hardware but that'st just me. Once everything has been online for 30 days run a SMART long test and validate everything still looks good. Generally if something is going to break catastrophically with no warning, it'll do so in the first 20-45 days. I'm at 2 years burn-in with my synology unit, finally bumped it up to two-drive fault tolerance; just now ready to format the disks/backups on the old file server and shut that one down
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Apr 26, 2020 06:27
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H110Hawk posted:The problem isn't generally steady state, it's recovering from a degraded state when you are at your most vulnerable to larger impact. So long as they maintain their promised IO characteristics it "shouldn't" matter, but a disk that stalls for a minute flushing cache is dead to any storage array worth purchasing. 
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Apr 26, 2020 14:23
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Hello storage thread, I have a recovery/repair/replacement question that I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction on. I've got a 2TB USB 3.0 Seagate SRD00F1 that has started throwing errors. The disk usually mounts in Windows 10, but if you access it in explorer it will sometimes lock up and never load. Forcing an unmount & chkdsk fails with a disk read error. My thought is since it mounts reliably that the issue is likely the drive & not the enclosure. Nothing on here is mission critical, but I have nothing else to do for another month+ in quarantine so... is my best bet opening this thing up and trying to plug it in directly to a SATA port on my motherboard? What are some simple options for poking at this, knowing that total data loss isn't going to make me shed a tear. I have an 8TB external that has plenty of free space, but I don't have a drive to attempt a 1:1 clone or anything like that.
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Apr 26, 2020 15:19
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charity rereg posted:Hello storage thread, I have a recovery/repair/replacement question that I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction on. I've got a 2TB USB 3.0 Seagate SRD00F1 that has started throwing errors.
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Apr 26, 2020 16:06
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I have two Seagate 8GB Ironwolf drives in my 2-bay Synology NAS. I think they're SMR. Does that mean if one of them fails, I won't be able to rebuild the array?
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Apr 26, 2020 16:09
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