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Groda posted:KU-helger with Försvarsmakten? Or stuff like courses with Försvarsutbildarna? They're counted as training, unless you were gonna work on a Saturday, they're gonna pay you that ~150 kr/day. Na more like stand around channeling the inner fash to make the people feel safe.
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Apr 21, 2020 18:47
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PederP posted:And I do think poo poo is going to hit the fan. Venstre is going to be so insanely humbled by being dumb fucks and not realizing that information is being withheld from them, and they're walking right into being scapegoats for every single dead body. "Oh, but we had this under control until the opposition forced us into opening so quickly. I am sorry we listened. People died because we listened to Venstre and DF. That was dumb - we'll make the decisions by ourselves from now on - so we'll just grab some emergency powers and rule by decree for a while".
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Apr 21, 2020 19:32
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Sounds like the social democrats trying to kill off DF for good and reabsorb all their lost voters. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Maybe S will split eventually as they take on more and more DF policy. It was funny seeing Mette talking in folketinget today "I am not socialist. We swore off that legacy ages ago. We're social democrats, not socialists." Eh ok.... that's interesting. I guess she hasn't read the party program for a while, because it specificially mentions the party is founded on democratic *socialism*. I imagine that parts of the party are not happy with that statement. Quite more telling that not a single major news outlet bothered picking this up. The Prime Minister just declared that she's not a socialist. That makes her a social-liberal? A conservative? Nah, who am I kidding - she's a populist who forgot her rehearsed ideological talking points. It's like Trump forgetting he's supposed to masquerade his oligarchic authoritarianism as republicanism. Which he did the other day when he talked about having "the ultimate authority", so I guess this is time for leaders forgetting to keep on their ideological masks.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:15
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PederP posted:Maybe S will split eventually as they take on more and more DF policy. lol
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Apr 21, 2020 20:26
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So a small-town politician travelled to sthlm to try to get corona with his friend and now he's upset and confused at why no one wants to work with him other than trough video-calls and then reported them to JO: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/varmland/storforspolitiker-akte-till-stockholm-for-att-fa-corona
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Apr 21, 2020 20:47
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Kamrat posted:So a small-town politician travelled to sthlm to try to get corona with his friend and now he's upset and confused at why no one wants to work with him other than trough video-calls and then reported them to JO: Former SD politician and climate change denier, truly shocking.
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Apr 21, 2020 21:15
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The New York Times did a piece on "excess" deaths (compared to the yearly average) vs number of reported Corona deaths. Sweden is the only country they looked at that doesn't seem to be significantly underreporting Corona deaths: The other Scandinavian countries were not included in this piece, but this suggests Sweden probably isn't doing as terrible as it might seem. Or rather, it's still terrible, but probably far better than other countries that seem to be doing the same. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 22:16
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PederP posted:Maybe S will split eventually as they take on more and more DF policy. It was funny seeing Mette talking in folketinget today "I am not socialist. We swore off that legacy ages ago. We're social democrats, not socialists." Eh ok.... that's interesting. I guess she hasn't read the party program for a while, because it specificially mentions the party is founded on democratic *socialism*. I imagine that parts of the party are not happy with that statement. Yeah. The whole point of social democrats is to blunt popular anger, uniting the people under a non-capital threatening umbrella. Racism fits in perfectly well there.
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Apr 22, 2020 05:42
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Zudgemud posted:Former SD politician and climate change denier, truly shocking. This is even dumber then it sounded. I mean this person needs to be medicated and locked away dumb.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:32
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PederP posted:Maybe S will split eventually as they take on more and more DF policy. It was funny seeing Mette talking in folketinget today "I am not socialist. We swore off that legacy ages ago. We're social democrats, not socialists." Eh ok.... that's interesting. I guess she hasn't read the party program for a while, because it specificially mentions the party is founded on democratic *socialism*. I imagine that parts of the party are not happy with that statement.
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Apr 22, 2020 10:25
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evil_bunnY posted:social democrats and democratic socialists aren't the same thing, hth to the social democrats themselves they are, see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V7IqUjFcoQ
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Apr 22, 2020 13:13
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evil_bunnY posted:social democrats and democratic socialists aren't the same thing, hth https://www.socialdemokratiet.dk/media/6554/socialdemokratiets-principprogram-faelles-om-danmark.pdf Very first paragraph on the first page: quote:Socialdemokratiets første principprogram blev vedtaget i 1876. Meget er sket siden. Men vores grundværdier ligner sig selv. https://www.socialdemokratiet.dk/da/partiet/ quote:De socialdemokratiske mål er enkle og klare: It may be that in practice, social democrats are not democratic socialists - but they claim to be. And their great leader, prime minister of Denmark, forgot. She doesn't know or understand the ideological underpinnings of her own party. And she's a product of the labor union movement. She's been in politics since her teenage years. She's never stepped foot in the "real world". She's a career politician. But despite all this. Despite her authoritarian leanings, her unabashed populism, her cruel and petty treatment of civil servants when she was minister, and her ability to refuse responsibility for the inhuman reforms she presided over as minister of labor - I am glad she's Prime Minister and not Lars Løkke. If that guy had been in charge when Corona hit? It would be a shitshow of epic proportions. Looking at the absolute rubbish he's been spewing about the measures taken, I'm so glad he's not in a position of power. Absolutely tragic that we such awful leaders. And who's next? Is there some cosmic law that heads of government just get more terrible as time goes on? PederP fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 18:45
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That same quote also says their goal is to ensure equal opportunities for anyone, regardless of ethnic, social or religious background, so I'm thinking they just haven't updated their homepage for a while.
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Apr 22, 2020 21:18
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Same government that took a loving month to discontinue mandatory handshakes and increased punishment for wearing masks in public: "Better be extra careful during Ramadan, stupid Muslims!"
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Apr 23, 2020 12:21
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I'm not saying they're honest. I am just pointing out they tend to be better at remembering their talking points. As in: "Yes, you may call me a socialist. But this is democratic socialism, by the people, for the people. I'm sorry your party doesn't care about solidarity and the plight of the working class, but we do. We want to make sure everyone is taken care of during this crisis, not just the banks and shareholders. If that makes me a socialist, I'm proud of it." Not: "And by the way, I'd like to ask you to not call me a socialist. We swore off that legacy ages ago. We're social democrats. That's something completely different! This country is not ruled by a socialist and that's a very good thing because..." (notices the puzzled looks of the left-wing parties and the giggling disposition of the right-wing parties). "Never mind, let's move on": She completely forgot she's supposed to represent the most left-wing faction of the Social Democrats.
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Apr 23, 2020 18:55
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https://politiken.dk/indland/art7758639/L%C3%A6kkede-dokumenter-afsl%C3%B8rer-danskere-med-en-skjult-milliard-i-udlandet
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Apr 23, 2020 19:22
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 This is a nice meltdown.
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Apr 23, 2020 19:27
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Young, physically fit people less at risk with COVID-19?
SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 19:47
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A military ship with a full complement of health professionals less deadly than a cruise ship?
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Apr 23, 2020 20:03
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PederP posted:I'm not saying they're honest. I am just pointing out they tend to be better at remembering their talking points. Only socialists care about the actual difference between social democrats and democratic socialists.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:06
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Cynic Jester posted:A military ship with a full complement of health professionals less deadly than a cruise ship? Yeah, I don't think he knows how those huge, nuclear carriers work. They're like cities without the congestion.
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Apr 23, 2020 20:17
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Cardiac posted:Only socialists care about the actual difference between social democrats and democratic socialists. i can assure you that both social democrats and the intellectual right are keenly aware of and interested in the difference
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Apr 23, 2020 20:57
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Åkesson skiljer sig, snacka om att ta social distansering på allvar.
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Apr 24, 2020 08:00
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BigglesSWE posted:Åkesson skiljer sig, snacka om att ta social distansering på allvar. Jeg må innrømme at det overrasker meg at Åkesson tar det på alvor men men.... That said, how much political debate is there in Sweden with the current measures that have been chosen?
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Apr 24, 2020 08:14
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abske_fides posted:Jeg må innrømme at det overrasker meg at Åkesson tar det på alvor men men.... Non-stop, all the time. Every hour of every day of every week since the beginning of march is non-stop discussions, debates and press conferences about Corona. Nowhere is safe. Doesn't matter if you turn on the radio, go for groceries or head for a jog in the forest, someone will be speaking about Corona. If you mean between the parties, none. Focuses are on other related areas (economic measures, labour rights, healthcare governing, etc).
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Apr 24, 2020 09:26
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MiddleOne posted:Non-stop, all the time. Every hour of every day of every week since the beginning of march is non-stop discussions, debates and press conferences about Corona. Nowhere is safe. Doesn't matter if you turn on the radio, go for groceries or head for a jog in the forest, someone will be speaking about Corona. I find it rather amusing that S rise in the polls can be partly attributed to them following the experts advice. Other part is of course the general trend seen for other ruling parties in Europe. Also, from my siblings I can inform you that everyone only talks about Corona. Finally we have a subject that can unite humanity.
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Apr 24, 2020 10:34
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I do recall Åkesson a while ago critiquing the government for listening too hard on the experts.
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Apr 24, 2020 11:38
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They dropped it a second later when it got no traction. Contrast Sweden to say the UK or the US, there is no real debate between the parties on the essentials.
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Apr 24, 2020 12:06
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MiddleOne posted:They dropped it a second later when it got no traction. Contrast Sweden to say the UK or the US, there is no real debate between the parties on the essentials. This is so weird. I mean in Norway there's not a huge amount of debate but it's still talked about quite a bit. I'm really wishing some of the more left-leaning parties other than just SV would come to the fore. The conservative government has been doing a very very weird job.
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Apr 24, 2020 12:48
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Norway’s reopening strategy seems a bit schizophrenic. They’re opening schools back up but letting kids come back if someone in the household has symptoms but not a confirmed case? Also foot traffic in Oslo seems to have roughly returned to normal which makes me worry we’re in for a double bounce. Are they just torn between “let’s not overwhelm the health system” and “number is going down!!”? Also welcome any corrections as I’m not that good at Norwegian yet so I may just be misreading things.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:01
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The mandatory handshake isn't actually suspended, apparently. Parliament has yet to vote on it. Six people just had their citizenships nullified, because the responsible municipality believed media reports.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:03
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SplitSoul posted:The mandatory handshake isn't actually suspended, apparently. Parliament has yet to vote on it. Six people just had their citizenships nullified, because the responsible municipality believed media reports. Wait what? Source?
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Apr 24, 2020 13:17
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abske_fides posted:Wait what? Source? DR nyheder: “Kommune i håndtryksbrøler: Marko og seks andre fik statsborgerskab ved en fejl” https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/kommune-i-haandtryksbroeler-marko-og-seks-andre-fik-statsborgerskab-ved-en-fejl
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Apr 24, 2020 13:24
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Gaukler posted:Norway’s reopening strategy seems a bit schizophrenic. They’re opening schools back up but letting kids come back if someone in the household has symptoms but not a confirmed case? Also foot traffic in Oslo seems to have roughly returned to normal which makes me worry we’re in for a double bounce. government's been making lots of noises about how things are basically under control which, to be fair, aren't entirely unwarranted reopening schools and kindergartens with the youngest kids is meant as a productivity-boosting measure for parents, and young kids mostly aren't in serious danger. if R starts growing again i expect a knee-jerk closing everything back down norway's managed this fairly well so far, but only because the government was basically strong-armed by local authorities taking charge early on. we'll see how the likely autumn resurgence works out
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Apr 24, 2020 13:40
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That said, in Norway just this week there's been at least three kindergarden teachers which have tested positive for COVID. I doubt Høyre will want to close everything back down and what they say and what the reports from Folkehelseinstitutt say are often two different things. That said, FHI has been rather schizophrenic themselves so it's a bit weird to be honest.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:44
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oh yeah the reopening is absolutely sacrificing front-line workers on the altar of productivity, no doubt about that NHO have been lobbying *hard* for this, and i suspect that they're pushing for more reopenings as well
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Apr 24, 2020 13:50
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V. Illych L. posted:oh yeah the reopening is absolutely sacrificing front-line workers on the altar of productivity, no doubt about that We've heard relatively little from NHO recently but there's no doubt they're lobbying a lot. I was VERY surprised by their leader's proclamations and orders at the start of the crisis considering that he's not an elected official. To be honest, I'm completely disgusted and disillusioned with NHO and their ilk. "Vi hører bare at alle vil gå tilbake til arbeid" sææææææærlig.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:57
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NHO's shifting stance in the last decade or so is another indication that the scandinavian model for social democracy is increasingly untenable - they've been refusing to discipline their members when they do poo poo like break the rules by scabbing etc, and are increasingly open about wanting to break the unions once and for all.
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Apr 24, 2020 14:01
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I know some of my WFH colleagues are not sending their children back to kindergarten despite them reopening and that you no longer get sick days for keeping them home. I can't say I would much blame them if they're just switching to writing down childcare time as working time as a result. e: ^^ As a foreigner I don't know much about NHO's history, and indeed I still don't really understand Norway's collective bargaining arrangements, but why would you expect anything other than encouraging scabs and union breaking from an employers' organisation? big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 24, 2020 14:03
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big scary monsters posted:I know some of my WFH colleagues are not sending their children back to kindergarten despite them reopening and that you no longer get sick days for keeping them home. I can't say I would much blame them if they're just switching to writing down childcare time as working time as a result. Ordoliberalist thinking is that a strong union is a benefit to the employers' organisations. They foster social stability, act as a single point of negotiation for far-reaching reforms impossible to carry out swiftly in a less centralized economy, etc. Ordoliberalism has been on the way out in Scandinavia for a while. As unionization goes down, the benefit of a corporatist labor market disappears for the employers (having a small number of non-unionized employee is beneficial for pressuring wages and working conditions - but too many and the cost of collective agreements outweight the benefits). Globalist employers don't want strong nation labor unions. Ordoliberalists do. There is a big shift towards globalism and using near/outsourcing as a means of cost reduction and strategic leverage. Post-Corona this is likely to change, imo. I expect a resurgence of Ordoliberalist adherents in Scandinavia (and Germany, but it's always been strong there).
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Apr 24, 2020 14:41
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