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1. The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. They have greatly increased the life-expectancy of those of us who live in "advanced" countries, but they have destabilized society, have made life unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in the Third World to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of technology will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in "advanced" countries. 2. The industrial-technological system may survive or it may break down. If it survives, it MAY eventually achieve a low level of physical and psychological suffering, but only after passing through a long and very painful period of adjustment and only at the cost of permanently reducing human beings and many other living organisms to engineered products and mere cogs in the social machine. Furthermore, if the system survives, the consequences will be inevitable: There is no way of reforming or modifying the system so as to prevent it from depriving people of dignity and autonomy. 3. If the system breaks down the consequences will still be very painful. But the bigger the system grows the more disastrous the results of its breakdown will be, so if it is to break down it had best break down sooner rather than later. 4. We therefore advocate a revolution against the industrial system. This revolution may or may not make use of violence; it may be sudden or it may be a relatively gradual process spanning a few decades. We can't predict any of that. But we do outline in a very general way the measures that those who hate the industrial system should take in order to prepare the way for a revolution against that form of society. This is not to be a POLITICAL revolution. Its object will be to overthrow not governments but the economic and technological basis of the present society.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:20
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If we're picking elements of the industrial system to preserve I am going to choose food security over the hypothetical ability to fly across the world whenever I want.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:26
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Pablo Bluth posted:It's how humans have lived for most of history. Sorry but I agree with this. Even if you couldn’t physically visit any more, you’d still have video calling, phones, letters, and I’m sure one day soon some kind of VR video chat or something. It’s not like someone’s torturing you by locking you away from your family. Being a long way away from your family and not being able to be in physical contact with them often is a tradeoff you make when you decide to, uh, move a long way away from your family. I dunno man. I grew up thinking of overseas travel as a rare treat to be had every few years - if you were lucky enough to have the money. In my lifetime it’s changed into a routine “let’s go see grandma” trip. I saw an american on hackernews bemoaning their fate, as their salary wasn’t high enough to fly to Disneyland MULTIPLE times a year, and so they felt poor. Attitudes to travel have changed a lot rapidly.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:27
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It's bougie as gently caress to complain that you might not get to pop over from Canada to Australia and back to the UK to visit the family whenever you want to. World would be a better place if we torched the entire passenger airline industry tbh.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:31
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My brother moved to America about 20 years ago and I've seen him in person less than ten times since. It would be once or not at all if I'd had to fund my own travel over there, I went twice as a kid (for his wedding and to meet my niece) and the other times have been him flying back to the UK. My dad left the UK to gently caress about on a boat eight or so years ago and I've seen him maybe five times since then, again all bar one of those times being him flying back to the UK, with me taking one trip to Tunisia six years ago. It wouldn't be that much different if I'd seen them half as much, or never. Moving abroad is a big choice with consequences. If you want to see your family all the time maybe don't disappear half way around the world.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:36
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if you want to ensure that your left movement will fail definitely propose abolishing international travel lol
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Apr 26, 2020 13:38
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I don't have to propose it, it's going to happen because of legislation or the collapse of society. And you may live to see it in either instance.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:39
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lol ok my dude
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Apr 26, 2020 13:41
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Pablo Bluth posted:It's how humans have lived for most of history. yeah who needs vaccines anyway
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Apr 26, 2020 13:42
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'because I want to / but what about me' doesnt seem like a reasonable argument for preserving something as ecologically destructive as passenger airlines. edit: I should clarify that I'm not advocating dismantling aviation entirely, but hopping the Atlantic for fun as and when you like feels like extravagance. kecske fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 13:42
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the left proposing something like that wil absolutely ensure that the libs and bourgeois will fully back the fascists who will let them go on holiday as they grind poor people into paste
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Apr 26, 2020 13:42
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You know, point to point wormholes would solve a lot of the world's problems.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:43
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We've already got the airplanes, it would be a waste not to use them.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:43
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sebzilla posted:If you want to see your family all the time maybe don't disappear half way around the world. you realise that sometimes it's not a choice right?
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Apr 26, 2020 13:44
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Mebh posted:Hm having trouble finding something like that for metal. Would this work? https://www.amazon.co.uk/JENOLITE-89005-Prevention-Motorcycle-Protection/dp/B07VNMN1YR Sorry for the late reply. I had this in mind, but that one might work too: https://www.amazon.co.uk/XCP-Rust-Blocker-Performance-Protection/dp/B00CU6QBN2 Problem with vaseline is that it's soft and melts in warm weather, and you def. don't want greasy weightlifting equipment. The waxy residue the rust inhibitors leave behind is less likely to run or be slippery.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:45
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NotJustANumber99 posted:We've already got the airplanes, it would be a waste not to use them. Aye, a bunch could be converted into water bombers for dealing with the increase in forest fires In the off seasons you could hire them out to fill swimming pools/really clean up some neighborhoods
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Apr 26, 2020 13:46
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I have a non-travel-related question(s) for those more knowledgeable than me: If the PM were to die or be forever unable to perform the role for whatever reason, what happens? The office of Deputy PM doesn't exist at the moment - is there some kind of pre-arranged order of succession for such an event or does an internal election have to happen? And more extreme - what about if the entire cabinet dropped dead (from the 'rona or otherwise) all at once? And finally, unlikely as it might be, what if every [ruling party] MP dropped dead but [the opposition] are still alive? Surely [the opposition] don't take over by default? Just curious about what protocols exist in such unusual situations (if any).
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Apr 26, 2020 13:47
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happyhippy posted:You know, point to point wormholes would solve a lot of the world's problems. You are Peter F Hamilton and I claim my five pounds.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:47
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bump_fn posted:the left proposing something like that wil absolutely ensure that the libs and bourgeois will fully back the fascists who will let them go on holiday as they grind poor people into paste Who would have guessed the bourgeoisie wouldn't like a left wing proposal?
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Apr 26, 2020 13:47
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DesperateDan posted:Aye, a bunch could be converted into water bombers for dealing with the increase in forest fires One wormhole point in the sea or out in space. The other above or on the fire. Fire out instantly
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Apr 26, 2020 13:47
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XMNN posted:idgi almost every single one of those would be a perfectly sensible question?? The  Joke is that the media would spin the positive of the UK government into a "gotcha" negative.I preface that with the fact that this is in Bizarro Tory-Vision Reality where anything short of uncritical stenography and servile boot-licking is seen as a biased lefty media, speaking down BRITAIN  So while to anyone else with a functioning brain they are all infact, perfectly reasonable questions that an actual functioning media would ask, to a Tory blowhard any kind of criticism or enquiry aimed at them is an attack.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:49
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franco posted:I have a non-travel-related question(s) for those more knowledgeable than me: The answer to all of this is basically there isn't a written constitution, so just try not to piss off the Queen. In the event of the PM dying the largest party would put forward someone else who could command the confidence of Parliament and the Queen would allow them to form a new government. Same for the cabinet dying. Eventually if enough people died you'd get to the point of MPs calling motions of no confidence etc, which has been pretty thoroughly covered over the last five years.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:50
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franco posted:I have a non-travel-related question(s) for those more knowledgeable than me: If an MP drops dead you have an election in their seat. If one or two drop dead you just reshuffle the government around, none of the actual government positions require elections to fill/replace. You vote for your MP and MPs argue among themselves once they're in westminster who forms a government and who does what job in it, normally this goes to whoever can put together a functioning majority, because they can tell the minority what to do, but the majority doesn't need to be along party lines (though it usually is, again for obvious reasons) and doesn't need to hold true all the time (the government can be defeated on a motion if enough of their own MPs won't vote for it) and there have been minority governments in the past who got by on a case by case basis with support from other MPs in the house, though these tend to be unstable, again for obvious reasons, because people get arsey and it's easy for the government to be deadlocked, at which point you normally call an election to try and change the maths in the house. If the entire government dropped dead (as a joke) (in minecraft) then theoretcally the opposition could try to take over but in practice it would probably just result in a lot of elections and parliament not doing anything for a while, or I think more probably a general election. It's never happened so there's no constitutional precedent but the whole point of our system is that they can make poo poo up.
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Apr 26, 2020 13:53
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Excellent answers - thank-you both 
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Apr 26, 2020 13:59
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The Queen is the head of state and we have succession all sorted out on that one. We don't have any need for an appointed deputy who's never allowed to ride in the same vehicle as the PM. MPs would have a quick scrap and someone will be pushed into the chair, business as usual.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:01
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Generally failure states of the british government are failure states of, like, all forms of liberal democracy. Turns out there's not actually much functional difference between a system where people make poo poo up as they go along for many centuries and one that people tried to plan out a couple hundred years ago. They both rely on the general noblesse oblige of the politicians to function properly.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:05
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Given the general disapproval of my original suggestion, I have no choice but to double down and limit everyone to one international trip every SIX years. You should have been satisfied with my first, generous offer.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:05
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are the rules for royal succession formally legally codified somewhere? or is it just "its a monarchy"
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Apr 26, 2020 14:06
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So starmer has also dropped a rent freeze during lockdown and just asking for a deferral
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Apr 26, 2020 14:06
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bump_fn posted:are the rules for royal succession formally legally codified somewhere? or is it just "its a monarchy" http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/WillandMarSess2/1/2 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Will3/12-13/2 One of the main uses for early parliament is in fact to get it put in writing.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:08
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Pistol_Pete posted:Given the general disapproval of my original suggestion, I have no choice but to double down and limit everyone to one international trip every SIX years. You should have been satisfied with my first, generous offer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g
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Apr 26, 2020 14:08
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Also another invention of the industrial age i would like to keep is the paragraph break because gently caress me those bills are hard to read.Pistol_Pete posted:Given the general disapproval of my original suggestion, I have no choice but to double down and limit everyone to one international trip every SIX years. You should have been satisfied with my first, generous offer. Can I sell my allowance to other people 
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 14:10
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Josef bugman posted:Hasn't Vietnam gotten rid of Corona already? Nope, but they have made heroic advances in the art of recategorising corona deaths as accidental trip and falls.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:18
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Beefeater1980 posted:Nope, but they have made heroic advances in the art of recategorising corona deaths as accidental trip and falls. "Someone put all of the ICU beds on the roof of the hospital, and all of the patients with severe symptoms tragically fell out of bed and tripped onto the ground below."
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Apr 26, 2020 14:23
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OwlFancier posted:Also another invention of the industrial age i would like to keep is the paragraph break because gently caress me those bills are hard to read. Just wait tIl you see sufficiently old Latin before they invented spaces.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:24
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I've seen russian cursive so I assume it's similar.
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Apr 26, 2020 14:25
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feedmegin posted:Just wait tIl you see sufficiently old Latin before they invented spaces. IVST·VVAIT·TIL·IOV·SEE·SVFFICIENTLI·OLD·LATIN·BEFORE·THEI·INVENTED·SPACES·OR·THE·LETTER·V
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Apr 26, 2020 14:27
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Guys i've got a solution that satisfies both sides. You're only allowed to fly if you have a family member resident in the destination. THERE, everyone gets to see their family and 98% of air travel evaporates overnight
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Apr 26, 2020 14:28
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OwlFancier posted:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/WillandMarSess2/1/2 1688 CHAPTER 2 1 Will and Mar Sess 2 posted:I A B doe sweare That I doe from my Heart Abhorr, Detest and Abjure as Impious and Hereticall this damnable Doctrine and Position That Princes Excommunicated or Deprived by the Pope or any Authority of the See of Rome may be deposed or murdered by their Subjects or any other whatsoever. And I doe declare That noe Forreigne Prince Person Prelate, State or Potentate hath or ought to have any Jurisdiction Power Superiority Preeminence or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme Soe helpe me God. Wonder how they would look at orthodox christianity or Islam. (yeah probably burn them at stake I know)
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Apr 26, 2020 14:28
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also, nice poppy tattoo 
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Apr 26, 2020 14:29
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