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Dapper_Swindler posted:So what makes you think trump winning again will make poo poo better in the long run. because if he wins after this loving plague plus all the other poo poo. i doubt people will suddenly decide, this time we will vote for a socialist. plus this harm reduction would actively make poo poo way worse for minorities in some hope that suddenly the DNC becomes the DSA. i'd also posit that Joe Biden is more conservative than Hilary Clinton. So your very recent history disproves that when people are scared they will turn more left.
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Apr 26, 2020 21:58
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Eminai posted:They're saying that someone who isn't Jewish telling a Jewish person when and how it's appropriate for them to use "never again" is extremely hosed up. And a Jewish person (or anyone else, really) using "never again" to compare political participation to enabling the Holocaust... isn't?
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Apr 26, 2020 22:01
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Wait is Abraham Lincoln bad now? Looking forward to a new woke argument. the north was just as bad as the south because there were slave owners and racist murderers there too. The true leftist position is to wish the south had won. You see, if the south had won the civil war, it would have impeded the horrors of american imperialism over the next century, the rise of american hegemony, and the triumph of global capitalism. Perhaps slavery continuing in the southern states for a few more decades would have radicalized the left there too culminating in a workers’ revolution?
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Apr 26, 2020 22:02
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CuddleCryptid posted:Thankfully Tom Cotton has zero effect on college admissions outside of Arkansas, which has no ranked schools. If you can't get paid with federal grant money unless you're an American citizen, our research enterprise will be hosed beyond recognition. Hell, just removing Chinese nationals would be a huge blow.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:03
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Mooseontheloose posted:i'd also posit that Joe Biden is more conservative than Hilary Clinton. So your very recent history disproves that when people are scared they will turn more left. Your point of reference is way too the left of the rest of the country. You do acknowledge that, right?
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Apr 26, 2020 22:03
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Mat Cauthon posted:there's not a university in this country that would get behind the effort to expel Chinese students or limit their studies. Do you know how much they pay in tuition and fees? International students are basically propping up entire departments, not to mention the local economy around some schools with what they spend on cars, housing, etc. Republicans want our universities to run out of money and collapse. Higher education is their enemy, and they know it.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:06
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OhDearGodNo posted:Your point of reference is way too the left of the rest of the country. You do acknowledge that, right? I am saying that the rejection of Hilary Clinton by certain elements of the left to bring about a top down leftist change resulted in a more conservative candidate than in 2016. Though, i do acknowledge they widely voted for her that leftists moved further away from their goals.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:09
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Discendo Vox posted:I'm not. If you're a member of a minority group, your decision to also hurt members of your own group through rationalizing political disengagement doesn't actually help your position. At all. In what sense does the weighing of harm between two right-wing, racist, mysogynists count as political disengagement? This is exactly what political engagement looks like. I've also mentioned that this one vote isn't the only way to engage and, in fact, alternative routes are vastly more important when the "choice" on that front is so bleak. Again, the conclusion, of that being any form of disengaged attitude, is bizarre. You have made a pure assumption that Joe "child cages for Latin Americans" Biden will be less harmful to minorities. I do not believe this is the case. Casting that as seeking to hurt members of any ethnic group is utterly disengenuous bullshit.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:15
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Disnesquick posted:Either way, socialists need to be doing socialism on the ground but that's easier when the central figures of oppression are visibly right wing, rather than the pretend-progressives of the Dem party, who end up tarring the actual left with that brush.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:16
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Disnesquick posted:In what sense does the weighing of harm between two right-wing, racist, mysogynists count as political disengagement? This is exactly what political engagement looks like. I've also mentioned that this one vote isn't the only way to engage and, in fact, alternative routes are vastly more important when the "choice" on that front is so bleak. Again, the conclusion, of that being any form of disengaged attitude, is bizarre. Yes; my issue with your reasoning is one of fact/assumptions, nor morality. If I agreed with you that a second Trump term had a better outcome for more people than a Biden term, I'd agree with your calculus. But I don't. You THINK Biden would lead to a bunch more years of weak liberal administrations, but that Trump wouldn't lead to more Republican victories. I just don't buy that. To me, the harm that Trump will continue to do is certain; Biden? Certainly not great, but beyond that who knows. Moreover, what happens in 2024 is uncertain. You base your logic on confidence about too many things that I just don't see how you got there logically. And uncertainty about Trump's actions that don't seem warranted either.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:20
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Amazing that on the day where republican senators are literally abandoning trump a bunch of the usual suspects want to create some huge derail about obama bad
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Apr 26, 2020 22:22
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https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1254431705907290114?s=20
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Apr 26, 2020 22:23
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BTW there’s like a 90% chance DACA dies tomorrow for all those Big Brain “hmm would a Trump second term really be worse than a Biden Presidency?” takes. Roberts is writing the decision.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:24
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Amazing that on the day where republican senators are literally abandoning trump a bunch of the usual suspects want to create some huge derail about obama bad Wait, what’s happening now? Did Trump support ubi or something?
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Apr 26, 2020 22:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1254477491642732552 Remember playing golf is hard work. If this dude was one of the regular working plebs of the country he'd be getting his poo poo kicked in daily for being the biggest bitch in the building
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Apr 26, 2020 22:24
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Amazing that on the day where republican senators are literally abandoning trump a bunch of the usual suspects want to create some huge derail about obama bad Link? I missed it due to *gestures wildly*
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Apr 26, 2020 22:24
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I do think there is a good chance for this scenario to happen- 1. Biden wins, Dems either take the Senate or it goes 50/50 favoring the Dems 2. Dems don’t do enough to fix the massive unemployment issues/financial destruction, or what they propose takes too long 3. Dems get clobbered in 2022 because people are pissed off and the right-wing is re-energized. Dems are blocked from making progress in 2023/24 4. Biden/his VP loses in 2024 to a more competent fascist who takes people’s anger and directs it the way Trump/Reagan did
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Apr 26, 2020 22:26
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Disnesquick posted:You have made a pure assumption that Joe "child cages for Latin Americans" Biden will be less harmful to minorities. I do not believe this is the case. Older black voters overwhelmingly went to Biden because they feel that beating Trump is important, and felt that he was the best choice for that. I disagree with them that Biden was the best choice to beat him. But I have a very hard time saying that they're ignorant about whether Trump or Biden will be better for their own lives.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:27
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FlamingLiberal posted:I do think there is a good chance for this scenario to happen- Very possible and that’s why we can’t just let up on pressuring those involved if November goes well.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:28
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FlamingLiberal posted:4. Biden/his VP loses in 2024 to a more competent fascist who takes people’s anger and directs it the way Trump/Reagan did
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Apr 26, 2020 22:28
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JonathonSpectre posted:Yes, people who say Ulysses Grant owned slaves are very much in favor of this viewpoint. I mean, what's the difference, REALLY, between Ulysses S. Grant and Nathan Bedford Forrest? Both slaveowners! What's the difference, REALLY, between Joe Biden and Donald Trump? Both rapists!
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Apr 26, 2020 22:28
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The Super-Id posted:I love so much that we have an insane cult that's formed because the president doesn't know how to spell or communicate like an adult and so clearly it's all secret messages to his loyal followers. These are the same people dying to covid because it's a hoax and we need to open everything up right now
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Apr 26, 2020 22:30
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1254520890991218691 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1254520891863678977
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Apr 26, 2020 22:31
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Koalas March posted:Link? I missed it due to *gestures wildly* There's been a bunch of gop pushback on trump in the news today, i'll try to track some of it down https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/26/maryland-governor-larry-hogan-trump-coronavirus-briefings/3029758001/ 'GOP Gov. Hogan to Trump: Stop coronavirus 'misinformation,' saying 'whatever pops in your head' ' https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/25/us/politics/trump-election-briefings.html 'Nervous Republicans See Trump Sinking, and Taking Senate With Him The election is still six months away, but a rash of ominous new polls and the president’s erratic briefings have the G.O.P. worried about a Democratic takeover.' There was another good piece on senate republicans being told not to campaign on trumps corona virus record because it's such an apocalyptically bad issue, but I can't find it rn
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Apr 26, 2020 22:31
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Nonpartisan analysts? What is that? Like a handful of people? Being nonpartisan seems like its hard to do in the age of Trump.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:31
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(thank you President Trump)
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Apr 26, 2020 22:32
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theflyingorc posted:There will be like 15% less boomers than 2016 at that point, and very nearly every silent will be dead. This also assumes that younger people won’t lose faith and stop participating or just join up with the alt-right
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Apr 26, 2020 22:32
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Notably both costa and haberman are sounding the alarm about intra-republican discord
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Apr 26, 2020 22:33
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The good news is that boomers are dying of old age, but the bad news is that gen x keeps getting older.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:33
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FlamingLiberal posted:I do think there is a good chance for this scenario to happen- It is important that we keep people engaged past 2020 that is for sure. But there is something to be said that the Obama backlash was partially the last gasp of a certain generation of people who had been activated in against the civil rights era and been fighting that fight for 50 years.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:33
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Lol the White House is devising a new foolproof strategy to change the narrative in Trump’s favor White House aiming for Trump pivot from virus to economy Let’s have the raging moron try and discuss the currently melting down economy! Surely hearing endless pie in the sky promises about V shaped recoveries and how we’ll be stronger than ever in July from a mad man will reassure the nation!
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Apr 26, 2020 22:33
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FlamingLiberal posted:That will certainly help, but we keep assuming that will be our grand savior and it just hasn’t happened quote:This also assumes that younger people won’t lose faith and stop participating or just join up with the alt-right I don't think your scenario is impossible, but a lot of people treat it as inevitable. It isn't, and the dieoff is one of the biggest reasons.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:35
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Herstory Begins Now posted:There's been a bunch of gop pushback on trump in the news today, i'll try to track some of it down That's not "Senators abandoning Trump" as you said, that's strategists and wonks opining about how to run for re-election in November, otherwise known as business as usual. People seemed surprised by your phrasing earlier because imo it was misleading based on these links. Not saying it was meant for some nefarious purpose but this doesn't indicate Senators themselves "abandoning Trump."
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Apr 26, 2020 22:36
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Mooseontheloose posted:i'd also posit that Joe Biden is more conservative than Hilary Clinton. So your very recent history disproves that when people are scared they will turn more left. id say clinton is more conservative than Biden. FlamingLiberal posted:I do think there is a good chance for this scenario to happen- i think that is a possiblity. but i still dont see the competent fascist. most of them are tea party types with more hatred of minorities. Shimrra Jamaane posted:BTW there’s like a 90% chance DACA dies tomorrow for all those Big Brain “hmm would a Trump second term really be worse than a Biden Presidency?” takes. well thats loving depressing. Sarcastr0 posted:Yes; my issue with your reasoning is one of fact/assumptions, nor morality. thats my issue. Trump winning would mean the majority of folks are fine with trump and would be fine with the GOP doing whatever the gently caress they want. i dont see how acceleration dream works especially if you listen to folks talk about how biden will lose like mondale.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:36
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theflyingorc posted:He thinks that every foreigner we train in science is one less science spot for Americans Fun fact, it's due to that distinction that studying politics in the European Union was different than studying it in the United States! (At least, in my experience.) There's more of a focus on treating political studies as empirical (eg, there is a single answer for how to most effectively govern and create policy) rather than as an art (eg, incorporating multiple different theories such as constructivism and postmodernism) in the United States, hence the more commonly used term "political science" in comparison to "politics." And that explanation was how I convinced a border crossing guard who was very confused that I evidently forgot what I was there to study to let me back into the country!  Even if it's a long shot, wrestling control of the senate from Senator McConnell would be one hell of a victory.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:37
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meanwhile trump has another one. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1254520889212837890 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1254520891863678977
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Apr 26, 2020 22:37
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I also have zero faith in Biden signing on to the kind of stimulus that will be needed to rescue the economy. Just last week he hired Larry Summers’ firm as campaign advisors on the economy. Summers is one of the key people responsible for watering down the stimulus bill in 2009 which probably exacerbated the Dems’ problems in the 2010 midterm.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:38
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enraged_camel posted:And a Jewish person (or anyone else, really) using "never again" to compare political participation to enabling the Holocaust... isn't? I wasn't using the expression in that context and i'm sorry if that's how it came across. The context I was looking to communicate was that the current conditions are alarmingly similar to those that led to the Shoah, which I hope was better communicated in the follow-up I posted. "Never again" is not an empty slogan, it is a rejection of passivity and a call to heed the warning signs of genocide. I believe we are at that point again and the warning signs are flashing red. "Political participation" is more than just voting, especially when the "choice" is so hollow. Disenfranchisement and poverty will create hopelessness and hopelessness will breed fascism. We're already deep into that trajectory.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:38
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VH4Ever posted:That's not "Senators abandoning Trump" as you said, that's strategists and wonks opining about how to run for re-election in November, otherwise known as business as usual. People seemed surprised by your phrasing earlier because imo it was misleading based on these links. Not saying it was meant for some nefarious purpose but this doesn't indicate Senators themselves "abandoning Trump." https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/25/senate-gop-talking-points-coronavirus-blame-china-not-trump/ Senate GOP strategy memo: 'Don't Defend Trump'
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Apr 26, 2020 22:38
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Herstory Begins Now posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/25/senate-gop-talking-points-coronavirus-blame-china-not-trump/ i mean thats not a good sign for trump if the GOP is basically going "every man for himself and try to hold the line".
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Apr 26, 2020 22:39
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