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Somfin posted:It was brought up earlier, it was in fact brought up back in 1993, then it was swept under the table. It was brought up again, and again swept under the table. All in the name of helping the accused. What, might I ask, would the good reason for doing this be? Probably really bad reasons. Somfin posted:Biden's off the table because of the rape thing for me. A vote for a third party is a vote withheld from both of them, let the rape-is-acceptable crowd pick who best represents them from the two options. Voting for someone in a political race let alone the presidency doesn't mean you support everything and everything they have ever done. And we already know which party and which candidate has the better record on reproductive rights, women rights, LQBT rights, etc. It's not the GOP. And it's not Trump.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:54
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Condiv posted:no it just means that you support them despite them being a rapist in this case. it means rape is not where you draw the line on your support That doesn't appear to be true. Somfin posted:let the rape-is-acceptable crowd pick who best represents them from the two options.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:56
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Scientist Al Gore posted:And we already know which party and which candidate has the better record on reproductive rights, women rights, LQBT rights, etc. the greens
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Apr 26, 2020 22:56
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Raskolnikov38 posted:the greens The sure as hell have got so much to show for it.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:57
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Scientist Al Gore posted:The sure as hell have got so much to show for it. howie is electable if you vote for him
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Apr 26, 2020 22:58
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They managed to put a guy in charge who isn't a rapist, in a sense they are more accomplished than the Republicans and Democrats.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:58
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:They managed to put a guy in charge who isn't a rapist, in a sense they are more accomplished than the Republicans and Democrats. Maybe one day they'll win an election. That'd be something.
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Apr 26, 2020 22:59
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You should vote for them, it'll help them win.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:01
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Scientist Al Gore posted:That doesn't appear to be true. "Acceptable," not "good." You accept voting for a candidate who has committed rape. I do not. As the poster you were replying to said, it is a hard line for me and I will not cross it. You will. That means you find a candidate who has committed rape to be an acceptable candidate if they're good enough in other areas. Good for you. Scientist Al Gore posted:Probably really bad reasons. You said there might be good reasons, I'm curious what they are. Feel free to walk that back and say something like "actually there are only bad reasons for covering this up."
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Apr 26, 2020 23:01
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Has anyone ever used the term ‘gaffe’ outside of American politics? Does the concept of the ‘gaffe’ even exist outside of the euphemisms that construct political theater?
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Apr 26, 2020 23:02
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ManBoyChef posted:Its really hard to not just become one of those people that have completely checked out due to mounting cynicism and despair. The only thing that is keeping me hanging on is what happened in VA. what exactly are you talking about here?
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Apr 26, 2020 23:03
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Maybe one day they'll win an election. That'd be something. Wait a second, if the greens are supposed to win without you voting for them then why can't the Democrats win without us voting for them? That seems kinda like an argument that we should vote Green since the democrats don't need the support of the left or the young or people who think rape is wrong.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:05
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Wait a second, if the greens are supposed to win without you voting for them then why can't the Democrats win without us voting for them? That seems kinda like an argument that we should vote Green since the democrats don't need the support of the left or the young or people who think rape is wrong. oh you mean this was a false dilemma all along???? 
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Apr 26, 2020 23:07
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Maybe one day they'll win an election. That'd be something. If winning is the only thing that matters to you, I hear fascists are really good at winning show elections
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Apr 26, 2020 23:09
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Raskolnikov38 posted:oh you mean this was a false dilemma all along???? There are at least four options despite the neolibs desperately trying to make you think there are only two E: And that's only regarding "what do you do when the election comes up," there's a whole field of political options after that
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Apr 26, 2020 23:09
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Is it? The way I see it, Trump and his cronies are robbing the government at our own expense. It's not capitalism. It's straight up theft with authoritarianism and socialism for his rich friends. Think about the people out protesting the lockdowns right now. While some are fools, you'll find a disproportionate number of owners of various businesses, car dealers, landlords, and real-estate brokers who are being materially harmed by the lockdowns and want them to end. What Fox News provides by saying the virus is overblown is an alibi. Sure, the people repeating that line often really believe it -- or at least convince themselves of it -- but they wouldn't be repeating it if it weren't in their interest to do so, like any criminal repeating an alibi to cover up the initial crime. Anyways, recriminations over the doomed election is probably not a great use of a time, compared to just accepting that Donald Trump is going to win the election again, so now what?
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Apr 26, 2020 23:13
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Wait a second, if the greens are supposed to win without you voting for them then why can't the Democrats win without us voting for them? That seems kinda like an argument that we should vote Green since the democrats don't need the support of the left or the young or people who think rape is wrong. No one in posting in thread believes this rape is acceptable. At all. Not even one.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:14
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Wait a second, if the greens are supposed to win without you voting for them then why can't the Democrats win without us voting for them? That seems kinda like an argument that we should vote Green since the democrats don't need the support of the left or the young or people who don't think it's okay to vote for a rapist.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:15
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Scientist Al Gore posted:No one in posting in thread believes this rape is acceptable. At all. Not even one. But you think it's not a disqualifying part of a candidate's history. As long as their opponent is worse. E: And we haven't heard from all of the Biden boosters so you can't be sure of that last bit. E2: Like, it is one thing to believe that rape is unacceptable, and it is another thing to have that belief meaningfully influence how you act day to day, and while I do agree that you've managed the first, I think you're struggling with the second. Somfin fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 23:16
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Somfin posted:But you think it's not a disqualifying part of a candidate's history. As long as their opponent is worse. In the context of the 2020 US Presidential election, yes.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:18
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Scientist Al Gore posted:No one in posting in thread believes this rape is acceptable. At all. Not even one. then why are you badgering people to vote for an unacceptable candidate?
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Apr 26, 2020 23:19
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Scientist Al Gore posted:In the context of the 2020 US Presidential election, yes. This time is different
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Apr 26, 2020 23:20
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Condiv posted:then why are you badgering people to vote for an unacceptable candidate? Because the other guy is worse.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:20
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Because the other guy is worse. You literally just told us that the Democrats don't need our support to win. Classon Ave. Robot posted:Wait a second, if the greens are supposed to win without you voting for them then why can't the Democrats win without us voting for them? That seems kinda like an argument that we should vote Green since the democrats don't need the support of the left or the young or people who don't think it's okay to vote for a rapist. Why would we vote for a party that can win without us, especially one with a rapist for a candidate?
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Apr 26, 2020 23:21
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You dont accept it, but it's not disqualifying. thinking_emoji_blotting_out_the_sun.gif
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Apr 26, 2020 23:21
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Scientist Al Gore posted:In the context of the 2020 US Presidential election, yes. Really loving the moral consistency here. Rape is 100% unacceptable, unless it's being used as a criteria for deciding who should be the most powerful person in the entire country in 2020, in which case we're going to have to Somfin posted:let the rape-is-acceptable crowd pick who best represents them from the two options.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:21
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:Why would we vote for a party that can win without us? I'm not well versed with the Green Party but I would suspect their interests have more in the common with the Democratic party than the Republican party. Hence, you should at the least vote for them.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:22
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Scientist Al Gore posted:Because the other guy is worse. so you find the rapist acceptable and want to proselytize for him some of us don't find rape or murder acceptable and therefore will not be voting for joe and his ghoulish friends
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Apr 26, 2020 23:22
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Somfin posted:Really loving the moral consistency here. How many people need to die under an administration that isn't able take care of what was a largely preventable pandemic? How long are we going to allow a president to conduct foreign policy based on twitter when he's angry in the morning? How many more lives are going to let be harmed by a racist administration? Somfin posted:unless it's being used as a criteria for deciding who should be the most powerful person in the entire country in 2020, in which case we're going to have to It is.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:27
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Scientist Al Gore posted:I'm not well versed with the Green Party but I would suspect their interests have more in the common with the Democratic party than the Republican party. Hence, you should at the least vote for them. I'm not following, you're saying that the democrats are closer to the greens than the republicans, so we should vote democrat rather than the party that actually represents us? That's kinda like saying we should vote Libertarian because they're closer to the Greens than the Republicans are. It's not a very convincing argument.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:27
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Condiv posted:some of us don't find rape or murder acceptable and therefore will not be voting for joe and his ghoulish friends If only that didn't enable someone so much worse.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:28
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Scientist Al Gore posted:It is. If that was true you wouldn't accept it in the candidate you're about to loving vote for! You're drat right I'm mad, you're not thinking about how your actions completely contradict your morality! loving christ it's like talking to a brick wall.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:29
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Scientist Al Gore posted:If only that didn't enable someone so much worse. a vote for a candidate is only enabling for that candidate. it is you saying i wish to enable you, the candidate, to have access to the levers of power
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Apr 26, 2020 23:29
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Scientist Al Gore posted:If only that didn't enable someone so much worse. You're enabling a worse Republican and Democrat in 2024 by supporting Biden. You enabled Trump by supporting all the lovely corporate centrist Dems up to this point.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:31
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Scientist Al Gore posted:If only that didn't enable someone so much worse. it's pretty easy to say that when you keep "worse" abstract imo, biden will do all the same evil as the trump presidency, but politely. he'll also normalize the trump admin's behavior and in 2024 you'll be arguing how it's ok dems kept the concentration camps open not gonna bother with that poo poo. you go ahead and support the blue rapist against the red rapist though edit:  rape is unnacceptable, except when it comes to putting a rapist into the most powerful office in the world. ok
Condiv fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Apr 26, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 23:33
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its ok, Im sure Biden just knows when someone pulling the lever doesnt accept him. psychic powers are actually part of the office
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Apr 26, 2020 23:37
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Douglas Adams posted:"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..." When it comes down to it, though, I'd really like to get rid of Betsy Devos and the rest of the garbage. I hope Biden gets kicked out.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:40
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Condiv posted:edit: "Rape is unacceptable" is a really easy thing to say, but like most morality, it's hard to follow through on in practice. Unless you have, y'know, a second or two to think about it, at which point it becomes super loving easy to follow through on in practice! I don't accept either Trump or Biden, and the people telling me that I have to support one of them are just operating on a moral framework that means that rape is unacceptable except in very specific circumstances, like every time it being unacceptable would mean that they have to change any part of their behaviour. It's okay, Scientist Al Gore, you're in the clear. Rape is unacceptable when you saying that might make you heroic, but any time it comes down to a choice like "do I vote for a rapist or pick one of the dozen other options available to me," well then you can just reach into the big bag of "just this once" stickers and slap one on the current situation. And you never run out of either stickers or excuses! Your vote for Biden will encourage him to change his mind, unlike the guy in the booth next to you who is voting exactly the same way in the hopes of seeing more footage of Biden molesting children on the teevee. Your votes actually come out of the machines looking different and do different things in the long term!
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Apr 26, 2020 23:40
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:Your ideology -- liberalism -- is an idealist one as superstitious as that of a creationist, promising the political equivalent of faith healing. Many liberals believe somewhere deep down that Trump will win again, but they don't have an explanation other than dark forces, Russian meddling, or aforementioned Fox News brainwashing. Rather than liberalism (and the elections which ratify it) being responsible for a system of exploitation which the white middle classes require to maintain their own position, and which even benefited many of the "white trash." Disclaimer, I don't know if I would I say I have an ideology. If I took a political compass test I'd probably end up a mix of socialist or communist. As for folks using excuses to keep their businesses open during the pandemic, sure I get it and I am not surprised but per your earlier note Republicans are not voting in their best interest by a significant margin. Given the current pandemic, conservative view on socialized medicine, safety nets, etc. those are some serious brain worms.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:42
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Scientist Al Gore posted:I don't know if I would I say I have an ideology. That is inherent to the nature of neoliberalism. You don't have an ideology, you're just "normal" and everyone else is afflicted by these weird ideologies, why don't they see the world rationally like you? You do have an ideology, it's just that one of the core parts of that ideology is that you don't.
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Apr 26, 2020 23:44
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